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#1
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I think it's worth noting here that even Merle Haggard recently recorded a
anti-war song. It'll be interesting to see if it gets any airplay, especially on stations owned by the monolithic Clear Channel network, who are major Bush and GOP supporters. -Neb ---Original Text--- Rockers Unite to Oust Bush http://www.rollingstone.com/news/new....asp?nid=19029 Bruce Springsteen told a crowd of 50,000 New Yorkers on October 4th to "shout a little louder if you want the president impeached." Two weeks later, John Mellencamp posted an open letter to America on his Web site, declaring, "We have been lied to and terrorized by our own government, and it is time to take action." Meanwhile, Moby, Eddie Vedder and Michael Stipe are organizing a TV-ad campaign that will run anti-Bush commercials during the week of the State of the Union address in January; Dave Matthews is railing against the war in Iraq in interviews; and at press time, at least three multiband rock tours planned to take aim at Bush-administration policies. Green Day, NOFX, Tom Morello, Dixie Chicks, Don Henley, Willie Nelson and Steve Earle have all played (or plan to play) for political candidates or causes. Hip-hop stars have also gotten involved. "We have a voice and a responsibility to speak out," says Jay-Z, a member of Russell Simmons' Hip-Hop Summit, which aims to register 4 million voters before the 2004 election. "People listen to us." Welcome to the increasingly partisan world of popular music -- where President George W. Bush is a marked man. Thirty major artists interviewed for this story cited many concerns: U.S. policy on Iraq, the Patriot Act, the Bush administration's assault on the environment, the economy and the media. But they all agreed that as the 2004 presidential election gets closer, it is time to mobilize. "The America we believe in can't survive another four years of George Bush," says Moby. Adds Lou Reed, "We must all unite and work for whomever opposes Bush, regardless of whatever differences we may have. Our motto: Anything but Bush." Many artists aren't afraid to get their hands dirty in the democratic process, either: At Punkvoter.com, more than 100 bands, including NOFX, Green Day and Offspring, are creating voter-registration drives, a political action committee and a Rock Against Bush Tour. Willie Nelson recently called Dennis Kucinich to offer his time and a slogan, "Kucinich: His middle name is sin," and dozens of other artists are contributing money to campaigns and performing in swing states and in televised public-service announcements. "Musicians have an obligation to get involved," says Henley, "not necessarily because they have a forum but because they are citizens." Donna Brazile, Al Gore's 2000 campaign manager, says that artists are important to this campaign, because "musicians have reach that politicians need in order to motivate people to take an active interest in their future." With that in mind, eight Democratic candidates filmed ads for a November 4th Rock the Vote event designed to woo young voters. In his spot, Wesley Clark even name-drops OutKast. It's not always easy for artists to speak out. Recently, New Jersey radio station WCHR banned Jethro Tull after the band's lead singer, Ian Anderson, was quoted in a local paper saying, "I hate to see the American flag hanging out of every bloody station wagon. It's easy to confuse patriotism with nationalism. Flag-waving ain't gonna do it." Eight months ago, Dixie Chicks singer Natalie Maines told a London audience, "Just so you know, we're ashamed the president of the United States is from Texas." More than fifty radio stations pulled the Dixie Chicks' songs off the air, and DJs and fans launched protests. Says Maines, "I thought, 'Why am I, a country singer who has never been involved in politics publicly, the one asking questions?'" In July, Dixie Chicks contributed $100,000 to Rock the Vote -- the largest single band donation in the nonprofit's history. Maines says that she hopes the London incident will help rally eighteen- to twenty-four-year-old women to vote. "I had gotten too comfortable in my life," she says. "And I wasn't necessarily active for things that I believed in. It inspired me." Maines' experience may have scared some musicians away from speaking out, but it angered others enough to get involved. Merle Haggard, who recorded his own anti-war song, "That's the News," this year, says that the attacks on the Chicks "reminded me of things I'd read about Berlin in 1938. It ****ed me off." The notion that musicians shouldn't get involved in politics is "ridiculous," says Mike Burkett (a.k.a. Fat Mike), lead singer of NOFX and founder of Punkvoter.com. "Everyone should be involved in politics: cabdrivers, lawyers . . .. everyone." Artists are in a unique position to understand the mood of this country, too. "We travel," says Henley. "We see what the economy is like in every city. We take the temperature of between 10,000 and 20,000 people four nights a week." Musicians hope that by getting involved they will inspire their fans to do the same. James Taylor, who has supported Sen. John Kerry, says that the administration has benefited from "a failure of citizenship." "Americans are asleep at the wheel," Taylor adds. "We're not getting involved in our own political process." Mellencamp says that the goal of his open letter and his song "To Washington" is to turn such apathy into action. "My whole purpose of being here, to write songs or write a letter like that, is to put the idea forward that some conversation needs to take place here, as opposed to accepting the [government] line," he says. But can musicians actually tilt the electoral scale, especially at a time when voter turnout among eighteen- to twenty-four-year-olds is at an all-time low? Republican strategists are skeptical. "People tend to choose candidates on the issues that they stand for -- and not the position of their favorite musician," says Christine Iverson, spokeswoman for the Republican National Committee. Brazile begs to differ. "People come out because they're attracted not just to [the candidate] but also because the candidate is being endorsed by their favorite artist," she says. "It matters." Artists clearly agree. Many say they are convinced that they're reflecting a national mood that is "disturbed," in the words of Haggard, or "agitated," as Morello puts it, and that fans can be motivated to get involved. "What you have to realize," says Russell Simmons, "is that it's a cultural step, not only a political step. It's in style to be at the rallies. It's in style to give money back to education." Adds Fat Mike, "If we get a few hundred thousand kids together, we will be a force to reckon with. If anybody wants our votes, they're going to have to give us some of the things we want. If the NRA can do it, why can't we?" DAMIEN CAVE (November 26, 2003) |
#2
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'Rockers' should stick to playing music and sucking up to
record company execs, which is all they know how to do. When I want political advice from the Dixie Chicks, I'll squeeze their legs together. Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints, ya know ?' HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/ Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/ |
#3
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#5
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![]() wrote in message ... Anyone whose opinions are formed by what some musician said, where that musician only has a public spotlight by virtue of screaming 'baby, baby, baby' louder and longer than those around him, is an idiot to begin with. Say, maybe you have a point here, Paul. From now on I'll only follow the opinions of noted soft-spoken intellectuals like Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, and Jesse Helms! -Neb |
#6
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![]() "clamnebula" wrote in message ... I think it's worth noting here that even Merle Haggard recently recorded a anti-war song. It'll be interesting to see if it gets any airplay, especially on stations owned by the monolithic Clear Channel network, who are major Bush and GOP supporters. How is Clear Channel monolithic? They have 10% of the market. -Neb ---Original Text--- Rockers Unite to Oust Bush http://www.rollingstone.com/news/new....asp?nid=19029 Bruce Springsteen told a crowd of 50,000 New Yorkers on October 4th to "shout a little louder if you want the president impeached." Two weeks later, John Mellencamp posted an open letter to America on his Web site, declaring, "We have been lied to and terrorized by our own government, and it is time to take action." Meanwhile, Moby, Eddie Vedder and Michael Stipe are organizing a TV-ad campaign that will run anti-Bush commercials during the week of the State of the Union address in January; Dave Matthews is railing against the war in Iraq in interviews; and at press time, at least three multiband rock tours planned to take aim at Bush-administration policies. Green Day, NOFX, Tom Morello, Dixie Chicks, Don Henley, Willie Nelson and Steve Earle have all played (or plan to play) for political candidates or causes. Hip-hop stars have also gotten involved. "We have a voice and a responsibility to speak out," says Jay-Z, a member of Russell Simmons' Hip-Hop Summit, which aims to register 4 million voters before the 2004 election. "People listen to us." Welcome to the increasingly partisan world of popular music -- where President George W. Bush is a marked man. Thirty major artists interviewed for this story cited many concerns: U.S. policy on Iraq, the Patriot Act, the Bush administration's assault on the environment, the economy and the media. But they all agreed that as the 2004 presidential election gets closer, it is time to mobilize. "The America we believe in can't survive another four years of George Bush," says Moby. Adds Lou Reed, "We must all unite and work for whomever opposes Bush, regardless of whatever differences we may have. Our motto: Anything but Bush." Many artists aren't afraid to get their hands dirty in the democratic process, either: At Punkvoter.com, more than 100 bands, including NOFX, Green Day and Offspring, are creating voter-registration drives, a political action committee and a Rock Against Bush Tour. Willie Nelson recently called Dennis Kucinich to offer his time and a slogan, "Kucinich: His middle name is sin," and dozens of other artists are contributing money to campaigns and performing in swing states and in televised public-service announcements. "Musicians have an obligation to get involved," says Henley, "not necessarily because they have a forum but because they are citizens." Donna Brazile, Al Gore's 2000 campaign manager, says that artists are important to this campaign, because "musicians have reach that politicians need in order to motivate people to take an active interest in their future." With that in mind, eight Democratic candidates filmed ads for a November 4th Rock the Vote event designed to woo young voters. In his spot, Wesley Clark even name-drops OutKast. It's not always easy for artists to speak out. Recently, New Jersey radio station WCHR banned Jethro Tull after the band's lead singer, Ian Anderson, was quoted in a local paper saying, "I hate to see the American flag hanging out of every bloody station wagon. It's easy to confuse patriotism with nationalism. Flag-waving ain't gonna do it." Eight months ago, Dixie Chicks singer Natalie Maines told a London audience, "Just so you know, we're ashamed the president of the United States is from Texas." More than fifty radio stations pulled the Dixie Chicks' songs off the air, and DJs and fans launched protests. Says Maines, "I thought, 'Why am I, a country singer who has never been involved in politics publicly, the one asking questions?'" In July, Dixie Chicks contributed $100,000 to Rock the Vote -- the largest single band donation in the nonprofit's history. Maines says that she hopes the London incident will help rally eighteen- to twenty-four-year-old women to vote. "I had gotten too comfortable in my life," she says. "And I wasn't necessarily active for things that I believed in. It inspired me." Maines' experience may have scared some musicians away from speaking out, but it angered others enough to get involved. Merle Haggard, who recorded his own anti-war song, "That's the News," this year, says that the attacks on the Chicks "reminded me of things I'd read about Berlin in 1938. It ****ed me off." The notion that musicians shouldn't get involved in politics is "ridiculous," says Mike Burkett (a.k.a. Fat Mike), lead singer of NOFX and founder of Punkvoter.com. "Everyone should be involved in politics: cabdrivers, lawyers . . . everyone." Artists are in a unique position to understand the mood of this country, too. "We travel," says Henley. "We see what the economy is like in every city. We take the temperature of between 10,000 and 20,000 people four nights a week." Musicians hope that by getting involved they will inspire their fans to do the same. James Taylor, who has supported Sen. John Kerry, says that the administration has benefited from "a failure of citizenship." "Americans are asleep at the wheel," Taylor adds. "We're not getting involved in our own political process." Mellencamp says that the goal of his open letter and his song "To Washington" is to turn such apathy into action. "My whole purpose of being here, to write songs or write a letter like that, is to put the idea forward that some conversation needs to take place here, as opposed to accepting the [government] line," he says. But can musicians actually tilt the electoral scale, especially at a time when voter turnout among eighteen- to twenty-four-year-olds is at an all-time low? Republican strategists are skeptical. "People tend to choose candidates on the issues that they stand for -- and not the position of their favorite musician," says Christine Iverson, spokeswoman for the Republican National Committee. Brazile begs to differ. "People come out because they're attracted not just to [the candidate] but also because the candidate is being endorsed by their favorite artist," she says. "It matters." Artists clearly agree. Many say they are convinced that they're reflecting a national mood that is "disturbed," in the words of Haggard, or "agitated," as Morello puts it, and that fans can be motivated to get involved. "What you have to realize," says Russell Simmons, "is that it's a cultural step, not only a political step. It's in style to be at the rallies. It's in style to give money back to education." Adds Fat Mike, "If we get a few hundred thousand kids together, we will be a force to reckon with. If anybody wants our votes, they're going to have to give us some of the things we want. If the NRA can do it, why can't we?" DAMIEN CAVE (November 26, 2003) |
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#8
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On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 00:11:05 GMT, (Scott Gardner)
wrote: On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 23:50:42 GMT, wrote: Very true. I would never deny them their right to say what they want. I guess in some cases, it's more their choice of venue that bothers me. Whenever I see some celebrity talking politics on "The Tonight Show", I think "The next time you find yourself on "Crossfire" or "Meet the Press", feel free to talk politics. You're sitting next to Leno solely because you're a celebrity, so sing us a song or plug your next movie." Scott Gardner Oh, I purely agree ! Yes, they irritate me, too. So, I add it to the list of things that irritate me about pop icons, whether from music, sports, or other venues, and ignore it. Some are worse that others - Bono, for instance. So two-faced ! He's so busy talking about his AIDS thing, along with his superstar musician buddies. If they want to be concerned about helping on that issue, fine - but let them take those millions of dollars they have in the bank and donate to the cause ! Let them sell their mansions and Lear jets and such and put their money where their overly large mouths are. Flying around on a chartered jet, being waited on hand and foot, walking on stage for an hour, and patting yourself on the back for doing it because you didn't charge your usual '$ 100,000 + 50 % of the gate' appearance fee is not what I call 'charity work'. It seems, in their world view, they get to keep their hundreds of millions themselves, while they bitch and whine about ' evil superpowers not doing enough to help', and then go off to some $1,000 / head reception in the ritziest place in town, snort cocaine until dawn, and call it 'charity work'. Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints, ya know ?' HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/ Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/ |
#9
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#10
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On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:03:31 -0800, "Michael Mckelvy"
wrote: "clamnebula" wrote in message .. . I think it's worth noting here that even Merle Haggard recently recorded a anti-war song. It'll be interesting to see if it gets any airplay, especially on stations owned by the monolithic Clear Channel network, who are major Bush and GOP supporters. How is Clear Channel monolithic? They have 10% of the market. Which market? |
#11
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![]() Scott Gardner said: The ones I have a real cognitive problem with are the ones that are so vocal in their opinions that they're almost as famous now for their political views as they are for what made them celebrities in the first place. I'm talking about people like Streisand, Fonda, and Sarandon. You left out Ah-nold. His political position is that he can forgive himself for crimes committed in an earlier phase of his fantastic life. |
#12
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On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 19:53:33 -0500, George M. Middius
wrote: Scott Gardner said: The ones I have a real cognitive problem with are the ones that are so vocal in their opinions that they're almost as famous now for their political views as they are for what made them celebrities in the first place. I'm talking about people like Streisand, Fonda, and Sarandon. You left out Ah-nold. His political position is that he can forgive himself for crimes committed in an earlier phase of his fantastic life. Very good example. He initially garnered fame as a bodybuilder, then later as an actor. In addition, part of his fame comes from being a conservative in a family famous for being liberal democrats. Now he's famous for getting the governorship of California after a political circus of a recall election. So if I were to see him talking politics on "The Tonight Show", I'd feel he has more right to do so than someone that's only famous for being an entertainer, even though he received his fame initially as a performer. Scott Gardner |
#13
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In article ,
wrote: On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 23:35:05 GMT, (Scott Gardner) wrote: On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 23:17:01 GMT, wrote: 'Rockers' should stick to playing music and sucking up to record company execs, which is all they know how to do. When I want political advice from the Dixie Chicks, I'll squeeze their legs together. Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me I suffer from cognitive dissonance on this point. One the one hand, it ****es me off to watch celebrities espouse their opinions on non-musical matters, no matter what their opinions are. But on the other hand, I donate to various causes, and if I suddenly became famous, I wouldn't mind using my fame to draw attention to a cause I believe in. In other words, as a private citizen, I can promote spaying and neutering of pets, and donate my money and time to those causes that feel the same way, but if I suddenly come into fame and fortune, any gift of my time or money is likely going to be publicized, turning me into exactly the kind of celebrity I'm annoyed by. Scott Gardner And such is life. It's a free country, and they have the right express their opinions - I'll ignore their opinions on this topic just like I do on what soda to drink or what car to buy, or how to dress or talk or anything else. Anyone whose opinions are formed by what some musician said, where that musician only has a public spotlight by virtue of screaming 'baby, baby, baby' louder and longer than those around him, is an idiot to begin with. True, but they're allowed to vote anyway. Luckily, the population segment they influence is in itself uninfluential, so there's minimal harm done. Not quite, they could be influential if they voted, but fortunately they don't. I'm agreeing with you but saying it differently. I did like the bit about Willie Nelson recently calling Dennis Kucinich to offer his time and a slogan, "Kucinich: His middle name is sin,". That's sure to be a winner. :-) |
#14
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In article , clamnebula
wrote: wrote in message ... Anyone whose opinions are formed by what some musician said, where that musician only has a public spotlight by virtue of screaming 'baby, baby, baby' louder and longer than those around him, is an idiot to begin with. Say, maybe you have a point here, Paul. From now on I'll only follow the opinions of noted soft-spoken intellectuals like Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, and Jesse Helms! And you can't see the difference between those whose job is to discuss politics and Barbra Striesand types? |
#15
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In article ,
wrote: On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 00:11:05 GMT, (Scott Gardner) wrote: On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 23:50:42 GMT, wrote: Very true. I would never deny them their right to say what they want. I guess in some cases, it's more their choice of venue that bothers me. Whenever I see some celebrity talking politics on "The Tonight Show", I think "The next time you find yourself on "Crossfire" or "Meet the Press", feel free to talk politics. You're sitting next to Leno solely because you're a celebrity, so sing us a song or plug your next movie." Scott Gardner Oh, I purely agree ! Yes, they irritate me, too. So, I add it to the list of things that irritate me about pop icons, whether from music, sports, or other venues, and ignore it. Some are worse that others - Bono, for instance. I vote for Barbra Streisand. She bitches about gas guzzling SUVs while she occupies a 9 or 10 thousand square foot mansion. How much oil do you think it takes to heat and cool that? |
#16
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![]() "dave weil" wrote in message ... On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:03:31 -0800, "Michael Mckelvy" wrote: "clamnebula" wrote in message .. . I think it's worth noting here that even Merle Haggard recently recorded a anti-war song. It'll be interesting to see if it gets any airplay, especially on stations owned by the monolithic Clear Channel network, who are major Bush and GOP supporters. How is Clear Channel monolithic? They have 10% of the market. Which market? Radio. |
#17
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![]() Ed Foster said: I vote for Barbra Streisand. She bitches about gas guzzling SUVs while she occupies a 9 or 10 thousand square foot mansion. How much oil do you think it takes to heat and cool that? I'd bet her heating bill for an entire year is less than one SUV tankful. Besides, she might be in a nuclear zone. Isn't there a reactor somewhere east of L.A.? |
#18
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![]() "George M. Middius" wrote in message news ![]() Ed Foster said: I vote for Barbra Streisand. She bitches about gas guzzling SUVs while she occupies a 9 or 10 thousand square foot mansion. How much oil do you think it takes to heat and cool that? I'd bet her heating bill for an entire year is less than one SUV tankful. Besides, she might be in a nuclear zone. Isn't there a reactor somewhere east of L.A.? San Onofre is south of LA. So Cal electricity is predominantly sourced from natural gas burning plants. ScottW |
#19
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On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:07:35 -0800, "Michael Mckelvy"
wrote: "dave weil" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:03:31 -0800, "Michael Mckelvy" wrote: "clamnebula" wrote in message .. . I think it's worth noting here that even Merle Haggard recently recorded a anti-war song. It'll be interesting to see if it gets any airplay, especially on stations owned by the monolithic Clear Channel network, who are major Bush and GOP supporters. How is Clear Channel monolithic? They have 10% of the market. Which market? Radio. Well, sorta. I only mentioned it to highlight what a one-dimensional thinker you are. First of all, they have 10% of the ENTIRE radio market in the states, but they have 50% of the POPULAR MUSIC stations in the country. Not only that, they control a substantial proportion of the concert seats in the US. The synergy between those two markets (radio and concerts) well exceeds the parts. They are far and away the largest players in the game. There's NOBODY that's even close. I maintain that makes them monolithic. |
#20
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On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:14:41 -0500, George M. Middius
wrote: Ed Foster said: I vote for Barbra Streisand. She bitches about gas guzzling SUVs while she occupies a 9 or 10 thousand square foot mansion. How much oil do you think it takes to heat and cool that? I'd bet her heating bill for an entire year is less than one SUV tankful. Besides, she might be in a nuclear zone. Isn't there a reactor somewhere east of L.A.? You really *are* joking, right George? My heating bill for next month will easily be double the price of an SUV tankful. Admittedly, I live in a porous old house with a floor furnace, but it's only 1200 sq ft. for god's sake. My heating bill for last year ran something $700 or $800 dollars easily. My worst month was $250. Talk about a shock. of that, *maybe* $20 was for my water heater. |
#21
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![]() The Idiot said: I'd bet her heating bill for an entire year is less than one SUV tankful. Besides, she might be in a nuclear zone. Isn't there a reactor somewhere east of L.A.? San Onofre is south of LA. So Cal electricity is predominantly sourced from natural gas burning plants. Sorry, didn't mean to wake you from your stupor. |
#22
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![]() dave weil said: I'd bet her heating bill for an entire year is less than one SUV tankful. Besides, she might be in a nuclear zone. Isn't there a reactor somewhere east of L.A.? You really *are* joking, right George? My heating bill for next month will easily be double the price of an SUV tankful. Do you live in SoCal? Admittedly, I live in a porous old house with a floor furnace, but it's only 1200 sq ft. In Tennesee, if I haven't become completely disoriented. for god's sake. My heating bill for last year ran something $700 or $800 dollars easily. My worst month was $250. Talk about a shock. of that, *maybe* $20 was for my water heater. They run the AC ten months per year in LA. Average temperature is 69. Yours is 58. I did forget about hot water, though, so maybe two SUV tankfuls. |
#23
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On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 22:31:21 -0500, George M. Middius
wrote: dave weil said: I'd bet her heating bill for an entire year is less than one SUV tankful. Besides, she might be in a nuclear zone. Isn't there a reactor somewhere east of L.A.? You really *are* joking, right George? My heating bill for next month will easily be double the price of an SUV tankful. Do you live in SoCal? Good point. Admittedly, I live in a porous old house with a floor furnace, but it's only 1200 sq ft. In Tennesee, if I haven't become completely disoriented. Another good point. for god's sake. My heating bill for last year ran something $700 or $800 dollars easily. My worst month was $250. Talk about a shock. of that, *maybe* $20 was for my water heater. They run the AC ten months per year in LA. Average temperature is 69. Yours is 58. I did forget about hot water, though, so maybe two SUV tankfuls. I *knew* I was right. (just kidding) Still, I'll bet ya that on those cool nights, 10,000 sq ft. ain't cheap to warm up. And I'll bet Barb doesn't cotton to no chilly drafts. |
#24
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![]() dave weil said: I did forget about hot water, though, so maybe two SUV tankfuls. I *knew* I was right. (just kidding) Scottie says natural gas is the most likely fuel. Still, I'll bet ya that on those cool nights, 10,000 sq ft. ain't cheap to warm up. And I'll bet Barb doesn't cotton to no chilly drafts. God, yes. Just think of how many Vulcans a restaurant could power with the gas she burns up. I'd bet she has solar heating to a large extent. Maybe Scottie will research that for us. |
#25
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On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 22:54:42 -0500, George M. Middius
wrote: dave weil said: I did forget about hot water, though, so maybe two SUV tankfuls. I *knew* I was right. (just kidding) Scottie says natural gas is the most likely fuel. It's amazing how expensive natural gas is these days. That $250 that I talked about for one month was from a *single* floor furnace in the middle of my house. yes, I know that it's not the most efficient use of the fuel, but still... Still, I'll bet ya that on those cool nights, 10,000 sq ft. ain't cheap to warm up. And I'll bet Barb doesn't cotton to no chilly drafts. God, yes. Just think of how many Vulcans a restaurant could power with the gas she burns up. 1? I'd bet she has solar heating to a large extent. Maybe Scottie will research that for us. Probably. If that's the case, then you have to factor in the $30,000 that would be required as a startup for a house that size. Then there's the greenhouse, the pool, the spas, the hot tubs and all of that. I think she lives on top of a small mountain, so it's probably a bit drafty in January. |
#26
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In article , George M.
Middius wrote: Ed Foster said: I vote for Barbra Streisand. She bitches about gas guzzling SUVs while she occupies a 9 or 10 thousand square foot mansion. How much oil do you think it takes to heat and cool that? I'd bet her heating bill for an entire year is less than one SUV tankful. And her cooling bill? |
#27
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On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:14:41 -0500, George M. Middius
wrote: Ed Foster said: I vote for Barbra Streisand. She bitches about gas guzzling SUVs while she occupies a 9 or 10 thousand square foot mansion. How much oil do you think it takes to heat and cool that? I'd bet her heating bill for an entire year is less than one SUV tankful. Besides, she might be in a nuclear zone. Isn't there a reactor somewhere east of L.A.? So, Babs' mansion cools itself without any external power? |
#28
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#29
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On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 14:16:44 GMT, Bender
wrote: On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 00:36:15 GMT, wrote: Some are worse that others - Bono, for instance. So two-faced ! He's so busy talking about his AIDS thing, along with his superstar musician buddies. If they want to be concerned about helping on that issue, fine - but let them take those millions of dollars they have in the bank and donate to the cause ! "We really got started, Jimmy. Bono knows what he's doing." -- U.S. Sen. Jesse Helms, R-NC, in 2002 He was speaking to his chief of staff, Jimmy Broughton, right after he met with U2 band member Bono to discuss ways to stop the AIDS epidemic in Africa. The issue was one of Helms's projects toward the end of his tenure in the Senate. Helms insisted in his conversation with Bono that the international private sector, not just Americans, must get involved. A) How many millions do you figure Bono has ? B) How many more millions does he make very year ? C) How many does he donate to the cause he espouses ? Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints, ya know ?' HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/ Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/ |
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On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:58:44 -0500, "clamnebula"
wrote: wrote in message .. . Anyone whose opinions are formed by what some musician said, where that musician only has a public spotlight by virtue of screaming 'baby, baby, baby' louder and longer than those around him, is an idiot to begin with. Say, maybe you have a point here, Paul. From now on I'll only follow the opinions of noted soft-spoken intellectuals like Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, and Jesse Helms! -Neb Or, you could form your own opinions. Is that too much work? |
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On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 19:53:33 -0500, George M. Middius
wrote: Scott Gardner said: The ones I have a real cognitive problem with are the ones that are so vocal in their opinions that they're almost as famous now for their political views as they are for what made them celebrities in the first place. I'm talking about people like Streisand, Fonda, and Sarandon. You left out Ah-nold. His political position is that he can forgive himself for crimes committed in an earlier phase of his fantastic life. What crimes are those? |
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On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:14:41 -0500, George M. Middius
wrote: Ed Foster said: I vote for Barbra Streisand. She bitches about gas guzzling SUVs while she occupies a 9 or 10 thousand square foot mansion. How much oil do you think it takes to heat and cool that? I'd bet her heating bill for an entire year is less than one SUV tankful. How about that private jet she uses to fly to Washington and bitch about pollution? Besides, she might be in a nuclear zone. Isn't there a reactor somewhere east of L.A.? If she's anything like her counterparts, she should refuse to use energy generated by nuclear power plants, since so many of that crowd are anti-nuke kooks, but I doubt she does. |
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"David Phillips" wrote:
Ed Foster said: I vote for Barbra Streisand. She bitches about gas guzzling SUVs while SHE STEPS OUT OF A CHAUFFERED LIMO! she occupies a 9 or 10 thousand square foot mansion. How much oil do you think it takes to heat and cool that? I'd bet her heating bill for an entire year is less than one SUV tankful. Besides, she might be in a nuclear zone. Isn't there a reactor somewhere east of L.A.? Irrelevant. It's a power grid and electrons are fungible. Besides, if California was producing enough of it's own energy, they never would have had the power crisis. So, Babs' mansion cools itself without any external power? It's powered by those incredible eyelashes she has. You should see the look on her face when she is using her vibrator. --Ted |
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On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:33:12 -0500, Tom Disque
wrote: On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 19:53:33 -0500, George M. Middius wrote: Scott Gardner said: The ones I have a real cognitive problem with are the ones that are so vocal in their opinions that they're almost as famous now for their political views as they are for what made them celebrities in the first place. I'm talking about people like Streisand, Fonda, and Sarandon. You left out Ah-nold. His political position is that he can forgive himself for crimes committed in an earlier phase of his fantastic life. What crimes are those? He grabbed a little handful of booty and ta-ta 20 or 30 years ago from some slut that was sticking it in his face, wrapped in a pair of sprayed-on short-shorts. Haven't you been keeping up ? Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints, ya know ?' HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/ Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/ |
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![]() "dave weil" wrote in message ... On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:07:35 -0800, "Michael Mckelvy" wrote: "dave weil" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:03:31 -0800, "Michael Mckelvy" wrote: "clamnebula" wrote in message .. . I think it's worth noting here that even Merle Haggard recently recorded a anti-war song. It'll be interesting to see if it gets any airplay, especially on stations owned by the monolithic Clear Channel network, who are major Bush and GOP supporters. How is Clear Channel monolithic? They have 10% of the market. Which market? Radio. Well, sorta. I only mentioned it to highlight what a one-dimensional thinker you are. First of all, they have 10% of the ENTIRE radio market in the states, but they have 50% of the POPULAR MUSIC stations in the country. Not only that, they control a substantial proportion of the concert seats in the US. The synergy between those two markets (radio and concerts) well exceeds the parts. They are far and away the largest players in the game. There's NOBODY that's even close. I maintain that makes them monolithic. Then realize you are an idiot by your own admission. 50% and significant portion do not equal monolithic. |
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On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:51:19 -0800, "Michael Mckelvy"
wrote: First of all, they have 10% of the ENTIRE radio market in the states, but they have 50% of the POPULAR MUSIC stations in the country. Not only that, they control a substantial proportion of the concert seats in the US. The synergy between those two markets (radio and concerts) well exceeds the parts. They are far and away the largest players in the game. There's NOBODY that's even close. I maintain that makes them monolithic. Then realize you are an idiot by your own admission. 50% and significant portion do not equal monolithic. Sure it does. Besides, I didn't say "significant". Learn to read. Oh wait, I forgot who I was talking to. |
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![]() "dave weil" wrote in message ... On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:51:19 -0800, "Michael Mckelvy" wrote: First of all, they have 10% of the ENTIRE radio market in the states, but they have 50% of the POPULAR MUSIC stations in the country. Not only that, they control a substantial proportion of the concert seats in the US. The synergy between those two markets (radio and concerts) well exceeds the parts. They are far and away the largest players in the game. There's NOBODY that's even close. I maintain that makes them monolithic. Then realize you are an idiot by your own admission. 50% and significant portion do not equal monolithic. Sure it does. Besides, I didn't say "significant". Learn to read. Oh wait, I forgot who I was talking to. And I forgot to add you're a nit-picking asshole. Learn to think. |
#39
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Firstly,
No way big business will allow Bush to not be reelected. Secondly, As a DESPISER of AMERICA, I WANT bush reelected. What's not to like? Americans dying, huge budget deficit, plunder of the environment, lack of democracy and guns for all. BUSH FOREVER clamnebula wrote: I think it's worth noting here that even Merle Haggard recently recorded a anti-war song. It'll be interesting to see if it gets any airplay, especially on stations owned by the monolithic Clear Channel network, who are major Bush and GOP supporters. -Neb ---Original Text--- Rockers Unite to Oust Bush http://www.rollingstone.com/news/new....asp?nid=19029 Bruce Springsteen told a crowd of 50,000 New Yorkers on October 4th to "shout a little louder if you want the president impeached." Two weeks later, John Mellencamp posted an open letter to America on his Web site, declaring, "We have been lied to and terrorized by our own government, and it is time to take action." Meanwhile, Moby, Eddie Vedder and Michael Stipe are organizing a TV-ad campaign that will run anti-Bush commercials during the week of the State of the Union address in January; Dave Matthews is railing against the war in Iraq in interviews; and at press time, at least three multiband rock tours planned to take aim at Bush-administration policies. Green Day, NOFX, Tom Morello, Dixie Chicks, Don Henley, Willie Nelson and Steve Earle have all played (or plan to play) for political candidates or causes. Hip-hop stars have also gotten involved. "We have a voice and a responsibility to speak out," says Jay-Z, a member of Russell Simmons' Hip-Hop Summit, which aims to register 4 million voters before the 2004 election. "People listen to us." Welcome to the increasingly partisan world of popular music -- where President George W. Bush is a marked man. Thirty major artists interviewed for this story cited many concerns: U.S. policy on Iraq, the Patriot Act, the Bush administration's assault on the environment, the economy and the media. But they all agreed that as the 2004 presidential election gets closer, it is time to mobilize. "The America we believe in can't survive another four years of George Bush," says Moby. Adds Lou Reed, "We must all unite and work for whomever opposes Bush, regardless of whatever differences we may have. Our motto: Anything but Bush." Many artists aren't afraid to get their hands dirty in the democratic process, either: At Punkvoter.com, more than 100 bands, including NOFX, Green Day and Offspring, are creating voter-registration drives, a political action committee and a Rock Against Bush Tour. Willie Nelson recently called Dennis Kucinich to offer his time and a slogan, "Kucinich: His middle name is sin," and dozens of other artists are contributing money to campaigns and performing in swing states and in televised public-service announcements. "Musicians have an obligation to get involved," says Henley, "not necessarily because they have a forum but because they are citizens." Donna Brazile, Al Gore's 2000 campaign manager, says that artists are important to this campaign, because "musicians have reach that politicians need in order to motivate people to take an active interest in their future." With that in mind, eight Democratic candidates filmed ads for a November 4th Rock the Vote event designed to woo young voters. In his spot, Wesley Clark even name-drops OutKast. It's not always easy for artists to speak out. Recently, New Jersey radio station WCHR banned Jethro Tull after the band's lead singer, Ian Anderson, was quoted in a local paper saying, "I hate to see the American flag hanging out of every bloody station wagon. It's easy to confuse patriotism with nationalism. Flag-waving ain't gonna do it." Eight months ago, Dixie Chicks singer Natalie Maines told a London audience, "Just so you know, we're ashamed the president of the United States is from Texas." More than fifty radio stations pulled the Dixie Chicks' songs off the air, and DJs and fans launched protests. Says Maines, "I thought, 'Why am I, a country singer who has never been involved in politics publicly, the one asking questions?'" In July, Dixie Chicks contributed $100,000 to Rock the Vote -- the largest single band donation in the nonprofit's history. Maines says that she hopes the London incident will help rally eighteen- to twenty-four-year-old women to vote. "I had gotten too comfortable in my life," she says. "And I wasn't necessarily active for things that I believed in. It inspired me." Maines' experience may have scared some musicians away from speaking out, but it angered others enough to get involved. Merle Haggard, who recorded his own anti-war song, "That's the News," this year, says that the attacks on the Chicks "reminded me of things I'd read about Berlin in 1938. It ****ed me off." The notion that musicians shouldn't get involved in politics is "ridiculous," says Mike Burkett (a.k.a. Fat Mike), lead singer of NOFX and founder of Punkvoter.com. "Everyone should be involved in politics: cabdrivers, lawyers . . . everyone." Artists are in a unique position to understand the mood of this country, too. "We travel," says Henley. "We see what the economy is like in every city. We take the temperature of between 10,000 and 20,000 people four nights a week." Musicians hope that by getting involved they will inspire their fans to do the same. James Taylor, who has supported Sen. John Kerry, says that the administration has benefited from "a failure of citizenship." "Americans are asleep at the wheel," Taylor adds. "We're not getting involved in our own political process." Mellencamp says that the goal of his open letter and his song "To Washington" is to turn such apathy into action. "My whole purpose of being here, to write songs or write a letter like that, is to put the idea forward that some conversation needs to take place here, as opposed to accepting the [government] line," he says. But can musicians actually tilt the electoral scale, especially at a time when voter turnout among eighteen- to twenty-four-year-olds is at an all-time low? Republican strategists are skeptical. "People tend to choose candidates on the issues that they stand for -- and not the position of their favorite musician," says Christine Iverson, spokeswoman for the Republican National Committee. Brazile begs to differ. "People come out because they're attracted not just to [the candidate] but also because the candidate is being endorsed by their favorite artist," she says. "It matters." Artists clearly agree. Many say they are convinced that they're reflecting a national mood that is "disturbed," in the words of Haggard, or "agitated," as Morello puts it, and that fans can be motivated to get involved. "What you have to realize," says Russell Simmons, "is that it's a cultural step, not only a political step. It's in style to be at the rallies. It's in style to give money back to education." Adds Fat Mike, "If we get a few hundred thousand kids together, we will be a force to reckon with. If anybody wants our votes, they're going to have to give us some of the things we want. If the NRA can do it, why can't we?" DAMIEN CAVE (November 26, 2003) |
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On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 17:42:03 -0500, AAA wrote:
Firstly, No way big business will allow Bush to not be reelected. Maybe in whatever squalid little ******** wannabe country you live in, business gets to decide that. Here, if we can keep the Hollywood liberals, lawyers associations, and unions at bay ( and we usually do ), the *people* decide. Otherwise, we get another DemocRat. Secondly, As a DESPISER of AMERICA, Despise *this*, mother****er. Chances are, whatever mud hut you live in only has freedom *because* of the USA, so shut your whiny little cake-hole. I WANT bush reelected. What's not to like? Americans dying, huge budget deficit, plunder of the environment, lack of democracy and guns for all. You must live in one of those Socialist third-world ********s like Germany, England, France, or Nigeria ( pick any one ) that dream of being the USA, but never will be. Now, go turn your neighbor in to your government for having a gun so he can be disarmed. BUSH FOREVER No, just another 5 years. That's our system. Of course, there *is* *another* Bush in the wings .... :-) Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints, ya know ?' HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's Free demo now available online !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/ Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/ |
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