Here are two knackered old men talking about my ton-up average between
Adelaide and Darwin. Below I shall consider their errors of
presumption:

Pinkerton:
Of course, it's most likely just another of his fantasies. He
is indeed a legend* in his own mind. 100 mph average from Adelaide to
Darwin - yeah, riiigghht.........

Wilson
**It's possible (but unlikely). Back in those days, there weren't as many
coppers. The roads are pretty straight. Even now, over much of the NT, there
are no speed limits.

Here are some predictable errors you guys are making. These errors are
predictable because of your character faults.

NOT PAYING ATTENTION, POSSIBLY LACK OF COMPREHENSION OF PLAIN ENGLISH
Wilson and Pinkerton both think I averaged 100mph between Adelaide and
Darwin (and back, actually, you silly mickeymousers) in a Holden
Monaro, a Chevrolet by any other name. Not so. I stated clearly that I
did it in a Ford GTHO, then the fastest saloon car in the world.
Wilson, who lives in Australia, is furthermore apparently unaware that
the cattletrains (big double and triple supercharged trucks with
several trailers) *routinely* at that time set 80mph averages through
the Northern Territory. It was not uncommon to come up behind a big
Mercedes truck hauling a cattle train at around the ton...

NOT IN MY BACKYARD
Pinkothicko lives in a mickey mouse country, Britain. He automatically
assumes that anything that cannot happen in his own backyard cannot
happen anywhere else. It is an error the unsophisticated street corner
gangs on these newsgroups commit all the time.

SMALL MEN WITH SMALL MINDS
Both Pinkothicko and the Wilson the Fraud are small men, Pinkerton a
lifelong salaryman and Wilson a small trader. The outlook of such small
men is best illustrated in the corollary:

THE POLICE ARE NOT YOUR ENEMY, THEY ARE YOUR BEST FACILITATORS
Small men and the lower classes have this in common with the criminal
classes: they see the police automatically as their enemies, a forceful
obstruction to their fantasies. Socially well adjusted people like me
view the police as their friends. For instance, when in South Africa I
set a similar record (100mph over 1010 miles from the statue of Jan van
Riebeeck on the Foreshore in Cape Town to the statue of Paul Kruger in
the centre of Pretoria in a Jaguar Mk 2) the police cleared the road
for me. I simply told the prime minister, in whose office I had a
sinecure as a part-time youth advisor, that the AA would time the
attempt (I can't help it if he thought that meant they sanctioned
it...), who told the justice minister, who told the cops, who did as
they were told and were happy for their salaries and their security in
not having to chase me. Equally in Australia, the cops didn't try to
stop me; far from it. I would stop at the first cop car I saw whether
they chased me or not and, if they didn't recognize me as the guy who
taught them pursuit driving (I was sentenced to do this by a magistrate
with a cruel sense of humour -- it is a version of what Americans call
community service), I would wait until they radioed ahead to other cops
to identify me, and then ask them to telephone and radio ahead to have
the trucks held on the infrequent but very, very dangerous crossroads
so that I wasn't delayed.

You mickeymousers weren't there. I was. You get your facts from
motoring progammes on television. I used those cars as you would like,
if you had the balls, to use whatever little shopping trolleys you now
drive, except I didn't bother with the daily wash and polish. Envy and
spite and denial won't give you your youth back, and anyway you never
had the balls (or for that matter the skill and concentration and
courage) to do what I did.

With utmost contempt for such little men with such cramped minds.

Andre Jute

Here is the full knocking correspondence of two knackered old men who
did nothing notable even when they were young:

Trevor Wilson wrote:
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 10:30:34 GMT, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
. ..
On 25 Dec 2005 14:50:08 -0800, "Andre Jute" wrote:

There is something ineffably sad about knackered old men pushing 60
hankering after a rorty muscle car that would have killed such careless
clowns as they are even when their reflexes were young. You can tell
what the rest of their fantasisies are but this is a newsgroup people's
children might read.

-- Andre Jute
Experienced. Fast. Alive. Whole.

Considering that you are already past 60, that's kinda pathetic,
dontcha think? I OTOH actually drive a vehicle which would have taken
the doors off your old Ozzy crate on anything other than a dead
straight road (and mebbe that, too). We will leave our gentle readers
to consider who is mired in fantasyland.......................

**I don't know which "Ozzy crate" you refer to, but I'll chase down the
data
on the Monaro, when I am able. One of the local automotive TV shows has
been
pitting a few sports cars around a local race track. The Monaro has held
up
pretty well. Within a second of a Carrera and a WRX STi.

I'm talking about the biggest, meanest Holden you could buy back in
the '70s, which appears to be the time frame Jute is rabbiting on
about.

**Ah. That would be an old 350 cu in Monaro. Pretty quick in it's day. About
130MPH, as I recall. A real handful 'round corners though. Back in those
days, there were three quick cars: The aformentioned 350 cu in Monaro, the
351 GTHO (Handling Options) Falcon (fastest 4 door sedan on the planet,
during the 1960s) and, my favourite, the 265 cu in, hemi 6 cyl Charger
(Chrysler). Six Webers. Mmmmmm. Smaller engine, but it gave the V8s a real
run for their money. Anyway, a couple of years ago, they ran an orginal GTHO
Falcon against a modern Falcon, 'round a race track. The modern Falcon
clobbered the GTHO, even with a 100kW power drop over the old car.

Of course, it's most likely just another of his fantasies. He
is indeed a legend* in his own mind. 100 mph average from Adelaide to
Darwin - yeah, riiigghht.........

**It's possible (but unlikely). Back in those days, there weren't as many
coppers. The roads are pretty straight. Even now, over much of the NT, there
are no speed limits.


*Legend - half history, half fantasy.............

Incidentally, since Jute insists on 'Top Gear' references, I note that
the current Monaro VXR, with likely 100 horses more than the '70s
muscle car, and vastly superior brakes and chassis, went round the Top
Gear test track in the hands of the Stig in 1:30.1 seconds. My
lavender shopping trolley that Jute loves to sneer at, went round in
1:30.4, not too shabby for a mere 250 horses......

**Indeed, but:

* There is likely to be a weight penalty to the Monaro.
* That suggests your car is hardly 'blowing the doors off the Monaro'.


(For those unfamilar with VAG badge engineering, the MkV Golf R32 is
identical to the current Audi A3 Quattro Sport 3.2 under the Audi's
much prettier skin).

BTW, we old guys do have things to teach the FWD generation. I spent a
happy weekend about six months ago on an old airfield, teaching a
34-year old colleague how to handle his new XKR on and beyond the
limit. I didn't charge him anything, considering the pair of rear
tyres it cost him was expense enough! :-)

Regrettably, the lesson may not have taken permanent root, since he
binned it spectacularly about three weeks later. :-(

Fair play to the boy though, he got back in the saddle - he bought a
'53 plate Merc CL55 AMG with the insurance money, to fill in while he
waits for his Aston V8 to be built next March. I may be in the wrong
job..................

**Those Aston Martins are the most drop dead gorgeous cars to come out the
UK, since the McLaren.

Indeed, although I personally prefer the DB9. Can't afford either of
them... :-(

**Sniff. Me either.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

dizzy wrote:

Arny Krueger wrote:

BTW, Top Gear is a great show. Shows up on cable here - Discovery Channel.

Eh? I could not find it on their site... Only certain times of the
year?

http://dsc.discovery.com/tvlistings/...ik=dsc_leftnav

Discovery have been umming and ahhing it seems about showing another series.
Last I heard it was on again. The US show doesn't have 'star in a reasonably
priced car' though. Probably 'cos you wouldn't know most of the ppl ?

Check out here.....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/
http://www.topgear.com/

Graham

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 01:24:02 GMT, dizzy wrote:

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:47:32 +0000, Signal wrote:

Are you referring to the lilac Audi, as commonly driven by ladies?

That's the one. Everyone graciously lets the silver-haired guy in the
lavender shopping trolley out of his country lane, whereupon I
disappear into the distance with a ripping howl of highly tuned engine
and precision gearchanges...... :-)

If I owned a black 911 - like the guy on the other side of the road
from me - I could sit there for ever!

I have a fast car... '98 Toyota Supra TT (Twin Turbo) with the
6-speed Getrag manual. 320HP stock, estimated 350HP with aftermarket
exhaust system w/high-flow cat.

Fun toy. It's got a surprisingly good sound system, too! 8)

A very fine car, should have sold *much* better than it did. You have
to admire the cunning way that the massive rear spoiler doesn't
obstruct rear vision!

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 23:39:24 GMT, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 10:30:34 GMT, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On 25 Dec 2005 14:50:08 -0800, "Andre Jute" wrote:

There is something ineffably sad about knackered old men pushing 60
hankering after a rorty muscle car that would have killed such careless
clowns as they are even when their reflexes were young. You can tell
what the rest of their fantasisies are but this is a newsgroup people's
children might read.

-- Andre Jute
Experienced. Fast. Alive. Whole.

Considering that you are already past 60, that's kinda pathetic,
dontcha think? I OTOH actually drive a vehicle which would have taken
the doors off your old Ozzy crate on anything other than a dead
straight road (and mebbe that, too). We will leave our gentle readers
to consider who is mired in fantasyland.......................

**I don't know which "Ozzy crate" you refer to, but I'll chase down the
data
on the Monaro, when I am able. One of the local automotive TV shows has
been
pitting a few sports cars around a local race track. The Monaro has held
up
pretty well. Within a second of a Carrera and a WRX STi.

I'm talking about the biggest, meanest Holden you could buy back in
the '70s, which appears to be the time frame Jute is rabbiting on
about.

**Ah. That would be an old 350 cu in Monaro. Pretty quick in it's day. About
130MPH, as I recall. A real handful 'round corners though. Back in those
days, there were three quick cars: The aformentioned 350 cu in Monaro, the
351 GTHO (Handling Options) Falcon (fastest 4 door sedan on the planet,
during the 1960s) and, my favourite, the 265 cu in, hemi 6 cyl Charger
(Chrysler). Six Webers. Mmmmmm. Smaller engine, but it gave the V8s a real
run for their money. Anyway, a couple of years ago, they ran an orginal GTHO
Falcon against a modern Falcon, 'round a race track. The modern Falcon
clobbered the GTHO, even with a 100kW power drop over the old car.

Of course, it's most likely just another of his fantasies. He
is indeed a legend* in his own mind. 100 mph average from Adelaide to
Darwin - yeah, riiigghht.........

**It's possible (but unlikely). Back in those days, there weren't as many
coppers. The roads are pretty straight. Even now, over much of the NT, there
are no speed limits.


*Legend - half history, half fantasy.............

Incidentally, since Jute insists on 'Top Gear' references, I note that
the current Monaro VXR, with likely 100 horses more than the '70s
muscle car, and vastly superior brakes and chassis, went round the Top
Gear test track in the hands of the Stig in 1:30.1 seconds. My
lavender shopping trolley that Jute loves to sneer at, went round in
1:30.4, not too shabby for a mere 250 horses......

**Indeed, but:

* There is likely to be a weight penalty to the Monaro.
* That suggests your car is hardly 'blowing the doors off the Monaro'.

Agreed, but I wasn't referring to the Monaro, but to the crate that
Jute claims to have been driving way back when. As you pointed out
above, the old 350 wasn't even close in performance to either of the
modern cars. I've had my 160mph speedo right off the clock.......

OK, TomTom satnav said 157, but the speedo was right off the scale!

Er, allegedly, on a private road, of course............ :-)
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On 28 Dec 2005 20:10:52 -0800, "Andre Jute" wrote:

Here are two knackered old men talking about my ton-up average between
Adelaide and Darwin. Below I shall consider their errors of
presumption:

Pinkerton:
Of course, it's most likely just another of his fantasies. He
is indeed a legend* in his own mind. 100 mph average from Adelaide to
Darwin - yeah, riiigghht.........

Wilson
**It's possible (but unlikely). Back in those days, there weren't as many
coppers. The roads are pretty straight. Even now, over much of the NT, there
are no speed limits.

Here are some predictable errors you guys are making. These errors are
predictable because of your character faults.

NOT PAYING ATTENTION, POSSIBLY LACK OF COMPREHENSION OF PLAIN ENGLISH
Wilson and Pinkerton both think I averaged 100mph between Adelaide and
Darwin (and back, actually, you silly mickeymousers) in a Holden
Monaro, a Chevrolet by any other name. Not so. I stated clearly that I
did it in a Ford GTHO, then the fastest saloon car in the world.

OK, aplogies for my error, so let's take a look:

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame...php&carnum=629

I've picked the ultimate Phase III version, as Jute would no doubt
*claim* to have used this one, if any other were mentioned.........

0-60 in 6.4 seconds, topping out at 142 mph. Very impressive for the
'70s, but distinctly average nowadays, being matched by the new Ford
Focus ST, with a 2.5 litre Volvo engine....................

My own little beast is mechanically identical to the MkV Golf R32,
which Autocar clocked at 6.0 for the 0-60 dash, 15.2 to 100, and tops
out at 154 (I've seen a GPS-verified 157, but that was one-way).

Interesting that the Ford and Audi weigh about the same, the Ford has
a (claimed, and at the flywheel in those days) 130 more horses, yet
the Audi is 0.4 seconds faster to 60, and tops out at 22 mph more. I
guess that's progress for you!

Note that the current Monaro VXR has just a few more horses from a
similarly-sized engine, but these are independently measured and are
at the gearbox output shaft. OTOH, it weighs another 100 kilos but
does 0-60 in 5.3 seconds, which suggests something a little doubtful
about the GTHO claimed power.

Wilson, who lives in Australia, is furthermore apparently unaware that
the cattletrains (big double and triple supercharged trucks with
several trailers) *routinely* at that time set 80mph averages through
the Northern Territory. It was not uncommon to come up behind a big
Mercedes truck hauling a cattle train at around the ton...

Indeed, but Adelaide isn't in the NT, and road trains have
professional drivers.....

NOT IN MY BACKYARD
Pinkothicko lives in a mickey mouse country, Britain. He automatically
assumes that anything that cannot happen in his own backyard cannot
happen anywhere else. It is an error the unsophisticated street corner
gangs on these newsgroups commit all the time.

I also worked in Arizona for a couple of years in the mid-80s, so I'm
pretty familar with big cube muscle cars and their real-world
abilities, even on long straight roads (the one you see all the time
in adverts is one I used to drive on a regular basis - truly boring).
All your fantastical lies and polemic will not alter the basic facts
of the matter. That old Ford might have been hot stuff in its day, but
it's small beer nowadays, and you certainly never maintained a road
avearage of 100mph from Adelaide to Darwin and back.

I learned my high-speed driving skills doing road rallies, and I know
what terminal speeds are needed to maintain high *average* speeds,
even in deserted areas with long straights.

SMALL MEN WITH SMALL MINDS
Both Pinkothicko and the Wilson the Fraud are small men, Pinkerton a
lifelong salaryman and Wilson a small trader. The outlook of such small
men is best illustrated in the corollary:

Actually, I spent ten years or so in consultancy, I still have a
limited company in addition to my salaried work, and you are a
semi-retired academic, failed author and ex-advertising guy, so you
don't have much of a place to stand here.

THE POLICE ARE NOT YOUR ENEMY, THEY ARE YOUR BEST FACILITATORS
Small men and the lower classes have this in common with the criminal
classes: they see the police automatically as their enemies, a forceful
obstruction to their fantasies. Socially well adjusted people like me
view the police as their friends. For instance, when in South Africa I
set a similar record (100mph over 1010 miles from the statue of Jan van
Riebeeck on the Foreshore in Cape Town to the statue of Paul Kruger in
the centre of Pretoria in a Jaguar Mk 2) the police cleared the road
for me. I simply told the prime minister, in whose office I had a
sinecure as a part-time youth advisor, that the AA would time the
attempt (I can't help it if he thought that meant they sanctioned
it...), who told the justice minister, who told the cops, who did as
they were told and were happy for their salaries and their security in
not having to chase me. Equally in Australia, the cops didn't try to
stop me; far from it. I would stop at the first cop car I saw whether
they chased me or not and, if they didn't recognize me as the guy who
taught them pursuit driving (I was sentenced to do this by a magistrate
with a cruel sense of humour -- it is a version of what Americans call
community service), I would wait until they radioed ahead to other cops
to identify me, and then ask them to telephone and radio ahead to have
the trucks held on the infrequent but very, very dangerous crossroads
so that I wasn't delayed.

I doubt if even the redoubtable Baron Munchausen himself would have
tried on such a fantastical fairy tale, Jute. You really are a sorry
excuse for burned-out failure.....................

You mickeymousers weren't there. I was. You get your facts from
motoring progammes on television. I used those cars as you would like,
if you had the balls, to use whatever little shopping trolleys you now
drive, except I didn't bother with the daily wash and polish. Envy and
spite and denial won't give you your youth back, and anyway you never
had the balls (or for that matter the skill and concentration and
courage) to do what I did.

Actually, my little lavender shopping trolley is significantly faster
than those old crates you *claim* you used to drive, and I'm not one
of the new FWD generation, I already know how to hold a car sideways
for pretty much as long as I want to. *Really* fast driving of course
is much more Roger Clark than Sideways Sam.............

With utmost contempt for such little men with such cramped minds.

Another perfect projection from the sad old man who put the bitter
into Angostura.................

Andre Jute

Here is the full knocking correspondence of two knackered old men who
did nothing notable even when they were young:

I survived my youth, which was a pretty notable achievement, had you
known me then.....

BTW, interesting that you failed to observe this snippet from that
post by Trevor:

Anyway, a couple of years ago, they ran an orginal GTHO
Falcon against a modern Falcon, 'round a race track. The modern Falcon
clobbered the GTHO, even with a 100kW power drop over the old car.

It's called progress. I'm sure you managed to frighten yourself
thoroughly, and loved that roaring V8, but you weren't *really* going
very fast.............

Of course, it's most likely just another of his fantasies. He
is indeed a legend* in his own mind. 100 mph average from Adelaide to
Darwin - yeah, riiigghht.........

**It's possible (but unlikely). Back in those days, there weren't as many
coppers. The roads are pretty straight. Even now, over much of the NT, there
are no speed limits.

Indeed, but do you think Jute actually did it? :-)

Consider how often he is caught simply making things up, and how many
'glittering careers' he claims to have had. The latest fantasy is his
claim to have taught pursuit driving to policemen as part of a
'community service' sentence! You hafta larf........

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 15:21:04 -0500, Jon Yaeger
wrote:

in article , Trevor Wilson at
wrote on 12/23/05 3:13 PM:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 00:22:58 GMT, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

I wouldn't want to do busines with someone
who would do something similar to that, whether
for an amp, a car, or a household appliance.

**That would be your choice. If I had (say) a 45 year old automobile
(the
approximate age of the amplifiers) and my mechanic told me that it
would
cost $8,000.00 to rebuild the engine, but offered me an alternative,
which
would provide the same functionality, safety and higher levels of
reliability for $2,000.00, I know what I would choose.

Ah yes - the Triumph Stag, most of which now have Rover engines......

**Reminds me of an old girlfriend, who, after selling her business,
wanted
to buy a new (second hand) car. "Will I buy one of those gorgeous, soft
top
Triumph Stags, or a BMW?" I told her it was a no-brainer. Buy the
Beemer.
She calls me now and again to thank me for my advice. She bought the
Beemer.
Never had a day's trouble with it.



Q. Do you know what the difference is between a porcupine and a BMW?

A. On the porcupine, the pricks are on the outside . . . .

; -)

Certainly a truism, but it scans better with Porsche.......... :-)
--


The REAL cars are now in Dallas.

http://www.rufautocentre.com/index.asp

So can we please switch the discussion to high performance vehicles. :-)

No, I do not have one. However, I've driven a client's 550 hp version and it
was quite a bit faster than my Navigator. But it'll be for sale as soon as
his 650 hp arrives. He's in his 20's...

These cars have been a real hit in TX.


Cheers,

Margaret

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 09:12:10 GMT, "Margaret von B."
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 15:21:04 -0500, Jon Yaeger
wrote:

Q. Do you know what the difference is between a porcupine and a BMW?

A. On the porcupine, the pricks are on the outside . . . .

; -)

Certainly a truism, but it scans better with Porsche.......... :-)
--

The REAL cars are now in Dallas.

http://www.rufautocentre.com/index.asp

So can we please switch the discussion to high performance vehicles. :-)

Oh dear, Max Power for Porsches.........................

No, I do not have one. However, I've driven a client's 550 hp version and it
was quite a bit faster than my Navigator. But it'll be for sale as soon as
his 650 hp arrives. He's in his 20's...

These cars have been a real hit in TX.

They do go wonderfully well with a six-inch belt buckle, ostrich boots
and a 'you might want to consider thanking your lucky stars that
you're in Texas' T-shirt..............................

Texans *are* familiar with porcupines, are they not? :-)
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
: On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 01:24:02 GMT, dizzy wrote:
:
: Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
:
: On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:47:32 +0000, Signal wrote:
:
: Are you referring to the lilac Audi, as commonly driven by ladies?
:
: That's the one. Everyone graciously lets the silver-haired guy in the
: lavender shopping trolley out of his country lane, whereupon I
: disappear into the distance with a ripping howl of highly tuned engine
: and precision gearchanges...... :-)
:
: If I owned a black 911 - like the guy on the other side of the road
: from me - I could sit there for ever!
:
: I have a fast car... '98 Toyota Supra TT (Twin Turbo) with the
: 6-speed Getrag manual. 320HP stock, estimated 350HP with aftermarket
: exhaust system w/high-flow cat.
:
: Fun toy. It's got a surprisingly good sound system, too! 8)
:
: A very fine car, should have sold *much* better than it did. You have
: to admire the cunning way that the massive rear spoiler doesn't
: obstruct rear vision!
:
: --
:
: Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

So what do you think of the upcoming Toyota Volta :-) ?
... "The concept car features a carbon-fiber body and chassis, making it
extremely light --under 2900 pounds. The sports car also uses a
6-cylinder version of Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive that makes
more than 400 hp. "

Rudy

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 01:24:02 GMT, dizzy wrote:

I have a fast car... '98 Toyota Supra TT (Twin Turbo) with the
6-speed Getrag manual. 320HP stock, estimated 350HP with aftermarket
exhaust system w/high-flow cat.

Fun toy. It's got a surprisingly good sound system, too! 8)

A very fine car, should have sold *much* better than it did.

The strong Yen of the mid-90's kind of killed it. By the time of the
late-90's correction (Toyota reduced the price by $10k in '97), it was
too late.

It was a tough sell in the US even at the lower price . Say "I have a
Corvette", and everyone knows. Say "I have a Toyota Supra" and they
think "Huh? Is that some FWD economy car?"

You have
to admire the cunning way that the massive rear spoiler doesn't
obstruct rear vision!

The spoiler's ugly, though. I took it off years ago. I never did
care for it, but the clincher was driving side-by-side down a highway
next to (what appeared to be) a bog-standard Civic 4-door, on which
was affixed an almost identical wing. I was embarrassed!

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 23:50:58 +0100, "Ruud Broens"
wrote:

So what do you think of the upcoming Toyota Volta :-) ?
.. "The concept car features a carbon-fiber body and chassis, making it
extremely light --under 2900 pounds. The sports car also uses a
6-cylinder version of Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive that makes
more than 400 hp. "

I think it's a crock of ****. What's the point of putting a
carbon-fibre body on a pile of lead-acid batteries? It's pretty much
as risible as seeing some fat Californian on a $5,000 mountain bike
made entirely of carbon-fibre and Titanium..................

Lotus makes 'extremely light' cars using conventional materials - it
takes *two* of them to weigh the same as a Volta. That way, a 200HP
engine will provide the same performance while using half the fuel.

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

"dizzy" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:

BTW, Top Gear is a great show. Shows up on cable here -
Discovery Channel.

Eh? I could not find it on their site... Only certain
times of the year?

I guess. It's off right now. Fun while it lasted!

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 23:50:58 +0100, "Ruud Broens"
wrote:

So what do you think of the upcoming Toyota Volta :-) ?
.. "The concept car features a carbon-fiber body and chassis, making it
extremely light --under 2900 pounds. The sports car also uses a
6-cylinder version of Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive that makes
more than 400 hp. "

I think it's a crock of ****. What's the point of putting a
carbon-fibre body on a pile of lead-acid batteries? It's pretty much
as risible as seeing some fat Californian on a $5,000 mountain bike
made entirely of carbon-fibre and Titanium..................

Lotus makes 'extremely light' cars using conventional materials - it
takes *two* of them to weigh the same as a Volta. That way, a 200HP
engine will provide the same performance while using half the fuel.


The point is that Toyota sells hundreds of cars, and probably thousands, for
every one car Lotus sells. And Toyota does not go bankrupt every few years.

Cheers,

Margaret

Very funny post! 8)


flipper wrote:

Hehe. Yeah. I used to have an original issue Lotus Europa, way back
when, and it's a bit easier to make an "extremely light" car when it's
little more than a hopped up go cart with a plastic shell tacked on.
And you can save a significant amount of weight by dispensing with
frilly extras like sound deadening, carpeting, padded dashes,
automatic choke, bonnet up latch/springs, roll up windows, adjustable
seat frames, and the like. One terrific bonus was you never had to
worry about someone changing your seat position because, besides no
one over 5' 10" being able to get in the thing and most everyone else
too scared to try, there was nothing to adjust..

It had two trunks though, one in the front and one in the rear,
although the front was pretty much occupied with things traditionally
found in an engine compartment, like wiper motor, radiator, rad fan,
etc, plus spare tire and the prudently user supplied mechanic's tool
kit so you could reassemble the thing where ever it decided to come
apart.

Speaking of which, there are distinct advantages to manual everything.
Take the time the bicycle hand brake cable they used for a throttle
linkage decided to lock up. I simply pulled out the prudently user
supplied mechanic's tool kit, disconnected the cable, readjusted the
manual choke for maximum throttle advance before kicking in the
butterfly, and drove home with the manual choke control. Folks with
'automatic everything' would be stuck driving around in windows up
air-conditioned leather seat carpeted luxury listening to the 5 disc
CD changer not having any fun at all.

Super fun little car with, as the saying went, "en engine where the
rear seats used to be" and perfect for a Walter Mitty complex. That 4
banger right at your ear drums sounded just like a B-17 so wherever
you went you were "on a mission" and at 140 on any side street the
cops subbed nicely for ME-109s. Bogie at 2 o'clock!

The only real drawbacks were the 40 degree blind spots on either side
and the unfortunate placement of a 3 inch slit they called the rear
window right at normal U.S. car headlight height. There'd be this
blinding flash of halogen light like a super nova went off inside the
passenger compartment and you had to scrunch down, no mean feat
considering the seat cushion (the one luxury) was already sitting on
the floorboard, to get a workable angle bounce through the rear view
mirror so one could identify the rollers on top the police car. Could
have used a tail gunner.

Fortunately that only happened once and he simply wanted me to clear
the high speed lane, what with us at double the speed limit slowing
things down and all.

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 13:15:30 -0600, flipper wrote:

Hehe. Yeah. I used to have an original issue Lotus Europa, way back
when, and it's a bit easier to make an "extremely light" car when it's
little more than a hopped up go cart with a plastic shell tacked on.

It's always fun to see someone complaining about a cutting-edge
high-tech car company by using a 40 year old example..........

The plain fact is that the Toyota Volta is a joke, you can't call a
car 'extremely light' when it weighs 2900 lbs, no matter how much
carbon-fibre you've thrown at the bodywork!

BTW, you didn't mention the weight of that old Europa of yours - it
was less than 1500 lbs, with a steel chassis, steel wheels, iron-block
engine and standard GRP body, no magic materials..................
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

flipper wrote:

Hehe. Yeah. I used to have an original issue Lotus Europa, way back
when, and it's a bit easier to make an "extremely light" car when it's
little more than a hopped up go cart with a plastic shell tacked on.
And you can save a significant amount of weight by dispensing with
frilly extras like sound deadening, carpeting, padded dashes,
automatic choke, bonnet up latch/springs, roll up windows, adjustable
seat frames, and the like. One terrific bonus was you never had to
worry about someone changing your seat position because, besides no
one over 5' 10" being able to get in the thing and most everyone else
too scared to try, there was nothing to adjust..

A girlfriend bought a new Lotus Elan 130, the two plus two legless
midgets version. On day one she pulled the door closed and ripped the
doorhandle right out. The "trim" was a piece of cardboard that tore
when I flicked it with my fingernail. The doorhandle was attached only
to the "trim". Even Polski Fiats were better made than that! She kept
the Lotus two days before I explained to the dealer that, if he didn't
want me to smear him right out of business, he would give her back
every penny she paid and in addition, as a punishment for misleading
her that the Lotus was a real car, give her a stiff discount on a used
Porsche 356 cabriolet as well.

That a used Porsche was the same price as a new Lotus tells you
everything you want to know about the relative value of the cars.

Mind you, whenever I drove a Lotus belonging to someone else who
lovingly kept it going, I loved the experience, but never enough to
interfere with my (intermittent) love affair with the ever-reliable
Zuffenhausen Flyer. "A sports car should be as light as is reliable but
no lighter," said Albert Einstein, the noted sports car and
interstellar exponent, and he was right.

The Lotus was a good car for people who lived in lanes not further than
ten miles from a commuter train station -- and who could afford half a
dozen Lotuses so one at least was always available to drive to the
station. Beyond ten miles, if the Lotus still hadn't fallen to pieces,
the buzzing and small niggles outweighed the roadholding pleasure.

the prudently user supplied mechanic's tool
kit so you could reassemble the thing where ever it decided to come
apart.

ROTFLOL.

You are clearly an unsuitable customer for a British "sports" car,
Flipper. You want to work on your masochism. Lots.

Andre Jute
A big 'un will always beat a small 'un -- Charles Darwin

It had two trunks though, one in the front and one in the rear,
although the front was pretty much occupied with things traditionally
found in an engine compartment, like wiper motor, radiator, rad fan,
etc, plus spare tire and the prudently user supplied mechanic's tool
kit so you could reassemble the thing where ever it decided to come
apart.

Speaking of which, there are distinct advantages to manual everything.
Take the time the bicycle hand brake cable they used for a throttle
linkage decided to lock up. I simply pulled out the prudently user
supplied mechanic's tool kit, disconnected the cable, readjusted the
manual choke for maximum throttle advance before kicking in the
butterfly, and drove home with the manual choke control. Folks with
'automatic everything' would be stuck driving around in windows up
air-conditioned leather seat carpeted luxury listening to the 5 disc
CD changer not having any fun at all.

Super fun little car with, as the saying went, "en engine where the
rear seats used to be" and perfect for a Walter Mitty complex. That 4
banger right at your ear drums sounded just like a B-17 so wherever
you went you were "on a mission" and at 140 on any side street the
cops subbed nicely for ME-109s. Bogie at 2 o'clock!

The only real drawbacks were the 40 degree blind spots on either side
and the unfortunate placement of a 3 inch slit they called the rear
window right at normal U.S. car headlight height. There'd be this
blinding flash of halogen light like a super nova went off inside the
passenger compartment and you had to scrunch down, no mean feat
considering the seat cushion (the one luxury) was already sitting on
the floorboard, to get a workable angle bounce through the rear view
mirror so one could identify the rollers on top the police car. Could
have used a tail gunner.

Fortunately that only happened once and he simply wanted me to clear
the high speed lane, what with us at double the speed limit slowing
things down and all.

Dédé Jute a écrit :



A girlfriend bought a new Lotus Elan 130, the two plus two legless
midgets version.


If she really loves you, she'd better purchase an ambulance... :-D



--
Nobody seemes to have actaully read what i wrote.
But what's new around here?

Dave Weil - Sun, 05 Oct 2003 00:57:15 -0500

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 23:50:58 +0100, "Ruud Broens"
wrote:

So what do you think of the upcoming Toyota Volta :-) ?
.. "The concept car features a carbon-fiber body and
chassis, making it extremely light --under 2900 pounds.
The sports car also uses a 6-cylinder version of
Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive that makes
more than 400 hp. "

I think it's a crock of ****. What's the point of putting
a carbon-fibre body on a pile of lead-acid batteries?


Got a reference for that item about the Toyota Volta being based on
lead-acid batteries?

Based on what I know about Toyota hybrids, I'd expect NiCad.

"flipper" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:15:42 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in
message
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 23:50:58 +0100, "Ruud Broens"
wrote:

So what do you think of the upcoming Toyota Volta :-) ?
.. "The concept car features a carbon-fiber body and
chassis, making it extremely light --under 2900 pounds.
The sports car also uses a 6-cylinder version of
Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive that makes
more than 400 hp. "

I think it's a crock of ****. What's the point of
putting a carbon-fibre body on a pile of lead-acid
batteries?


Got a reference for that item about the Toyota Volta
being based on lead-acid batteries?

Based on what I know about Toyota hybrids, I'd expect
NiCad.


NiMH would be a better guess considering that Toyota
formed a joint venture with Panasonic Batteries to make
the things and it enjoys a 50% share of the overall HEV
battery market.

Interesting!

On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:15:42 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 23:50:58 +0100, "Ruud Broens"
wrote:

So what do you think of the upcoming Toyota Volta :-) ?
.. "The concept car features a carbon-fiber body and
chassis, making it extremely light --under 2900 pounds.
The sports car also uses a 6-cylinder version of
Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive that makes
more than 400 hp. "

I think it's a crock of ****. What's the point of putting
a carbon-fibre body on a pile of lead-acid batteries?


Got a reference for that item about the Toyota Volta being based on
lead-acid batteries?

Based on what I know about Toyota hybrids, I'd expect NiCad.

Given their claims of 'extremely light' for this tubby beast, wouldn't
you have expected Lithium-ion? :-)
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message

On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:15:42 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in
message
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 23:50:58 +0100, "Ruud Broens"
wrote:

So what do you think of the upcoming Toyota Volta :-) ?
.. "The concept car features a carbon-fiber body and
chassis, making it extremely light --under 2900 pounds.
The sports car also uses a 6-cylinder version of
Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive that makes
more than 400 hp. "

I think it's a crock of ****. What's the point of
putting a carbon-fibre body on a pile of lead-acid
batteries?


Got a reference for that item about the Toyota Volta
being based on lead-acid batteries?

Based on what I know about Toyota hybrids, I'd expect
NiCad.

Given their claims of 'extremely light' for this tubby
beast, wouldn't you have expected Lithium-ion? :-)

Well, *anything* modern but lead-acid.

Agreed that Lithium Ion has a big advantage for weight, but may have issues
with number of charge/discharge cycles.

http://www.buchmann.ca/chap2-page2.asp