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A recording style that was in vogue or second-rate engineering?



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 13th 18, 03:55 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
brassplyer
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Posts: 120
Default A recording style that was in vogue or second-rate engineering?

On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 1:26:30 PM UTC-4, Scott Dorsey wrote:

> Pretty much everything on Command is fake and in-your-face, and the liner
> notes brag about it being that way.
>
> But if they don't sound quite the same, check the lead-out and make sure
> you don't have a later pressing that was recut differently.
> --scott



Thanks for your input and inside info on this.
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  #12  
Old April 14th 18, 12:14 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
Les Cargill[_4_]
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Default A recording style that was in vogue or second-rate engineering?

Brassplyer wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 8:14:13 PM UTC-4, Les Cargill wrote:
>
>>
>> Severinsen's tone wasn't his strong suit.

>
>
> Every trumpet player on Earth just gave you a "say what??" look.
>


I wouldn't be at all surprised. All pop trumpet from the 1960s
on for a couple decades just sounds a lot overblown to me.

I'm a bit biased because I think this was due to everything
being really competitive, and trying to sound louder. And
probably those damned Fender basses

> Doc in his day was famous for having the whole package - everything
> was his strong suit - freakish technical facility, musicality, power,
> range, amazing, vibrant sound. I promise you - Doc's sound in his
> prime is highly regarded. He had a unique hybrid sound that brought
> classical coloring to pop/commercial/jazz. His high range was unusual
> is that it never sounded brittle or screechy. He had control from the
> bottom of the horn to the top.
>


He's remarkably consistent for sure. Everything you say is true, but
the order of the day was "shrill".

SO given that - yeah, he was good at that. I've little doubt
he could have played differently. But that kind of shows up on
that recording...

> Here's a recording that captured his sound much better than my
> original above. Other recordings that are good to check out are his
> "Trumpet Spectacular" album with the Cincinnati Pops - recorded live
> in a large studio hall with no EQ or other FX - just the input of the
> mics right to the board. Also his "Rhapsody For Now" album - in
> particular the recording of "A Song For You".
>
> This is off a Direct To Disc album - Doc on trumpet and flugelhorn.
> The link takes you to just before he comes in.
>
> https://youtu.be/fn70ehqENYw?t=1m12s
>


That shows a lot more tonal range than I am used to from him.

I'd just say that relative to Wynton Marsalis ( yeah, with roughly 40
years difference so totally no fair ) it's a lot less expressive and
singing.

IMO, only

--
Les Cargill
  #13  
Old April 14th 18, 03:57 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
brassplyer
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Posts: 120
Default A recording style that was in vogue or second-rate engineering?

On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 7:06:52 PM UTC-4, Les Cargill wrote:


> I'd just say that relative to Wynton Marsalis ( yeah, with roughly 40
> years difference so totally no fair ) it's a lot less expressive and
> singing.
>
> IMO, only



Wynton is a fine player, very technically proficient, probably a stronger jazzer than Doc but I don't think he could play that Chimes Festival arrangement the way Doc did if his life depended on it. I don't think any other player on the planet could.


> That shows a lot more tonal range than I am used to from him.


You want to hear variety of tonal color eh? Here 'ya go. An iconic Doc recording - all the way from the bottom of the horn to Eb over double C. He used to do this live in concert.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjWQG0IdVEs





  #14  
Old April 15th 18, 03:35 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
Les Cargill[_4_]
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Posts: 1,339
Default A recording style that was in vogue or second-rate engineering?

Brassplyer wrote:
> On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 7:06:52 PM UTC-4, Les Cargill wrote:
>
>
>> I'd just say that relative to Wynton Marsalis ( yeah, with roughly
>> 40 years difference so totally no fair ) it's a lot less expressive
>> and singing.
>>
>> IMO, only

>
>
> Wynton is a fine player, very technically proficient, probably a
> stronger jazzer than Doc but I don't think he could play that Chimes
> Festival arrangement the way Doc did if his life depended on it. I
> don't think any other player on the planet could.
>
>


Probably not. But IMO, we were talking about recording trumpet and
Wynton's tone will tend to be less strident.

But Doc grew up in the commercial world, where Wynton's experience
was much more of jazz as a conservatory form. It's almost different
planets.

>> That shows a lot more tonal range than I am used to from him.

>
> You want to hear variety of tonal color eh? Here 'ya go. An iconic
> Doc recording - all the way from the bottom of the horn to Eb over
> double C. He used to do this live in concert.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjWQG0IdVEs
>


Much better!

>
>
>
>
>


--
Les Cargill
  #15  
Old April 16th 18, 04:58 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
brassplyer
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Posts: 120
Default A recording style that was in vogue or second-rate engineering?

On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 10:28:27 AM UTC-4, Les Cargill wrote:
> Brassplyer wrote:


> > Wynton is a fine player, very technically proficient, probably a
> > stronger jazzer than Doc but I don't think he could play that Chimes
> > Festival arrangement the way Doc did if his life depended on it. I
> > don't think any other player on the planet could.
> >

>
> Probably not. But IMO, we were talking about recording trumpet and
> Wynton's tone will tend to be less strident.



A lot of Wynton's sound is the equipment he uses - the Monette horns and mouthpieces he uses are specifically designed to deliver a dusky, dark sound. You wouldn't use it to play lead with a big band. Just a mouthpiece by itself will radically alter the sound of a trumpet or flugel.


> > You want to hear variety of tonal color eh? Here 'ya go. An iconic
> > Doc recording - all the way from the bottom of the horn to Eb over
> > double C. He used to do this live in concert.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjWQG0IdVEs
> >

>
> Much better!



Well, it's a different shade of excellent. Doc played largely in the commercial world but that involved using a lot of gears besides "Peel paint" - which is why he was in such demand as a studio player even after he gained wider fame on the Tonight Show. But in his heyday he could definitely peel paint like nobody else.

Here, this is Doc in the mode you're thinking of - playing with bravura and swagger.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhy9S6ET3_k
  #16  
Old April 17th 18, 12:52 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
brassplyer
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Posts: 120
Default A recording style that was in vogue or second-rate engineering?

On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 11:58:16 PM UTC-4, Brassplyer wrote:

> Here, this is Doc in the mode you're thinking of - playing with bravura and swagger.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhy9S6ET3_k



At the other end of the scale with Henry Mancini - not a hint of swagger to be found.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtrXBJEff-Q

 




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