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Mr.T Mr.T is offline
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Default digitalizing vinyl records


"Serge Auckland" wrote in message
news

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Serge Auckland" wrote in message
...

however, my own attempts to get a USB sound card that was any good
doesn't bode well.


Strange, I find many good ones.

I tried several, from Alesis and others, and they wouldn't pass a
back-to-back test with RMAA.


Strange, I find many good ones.


In each case (I tried three different ones) they distorted either on
output when the output was at 0dBFS


That's what digital does. it clips hard for sure at 0 dB FS or in the

real
world, just a tad below that.


(one even distorted at -2dBFS)


Now that is uncalled for. Not good gear. I can see maybe -1 dB FS,
ut -2 is IMO too sleazy.


or on the inputs when the level went up above about 0dBu.



Most consumer audio interfaces are designed for FS = 1 volt rms. If you
want to go higher, you may have to use an external analog attenuator.




Any sound card that clips hard at 0dBFS is, in my view, broken. 0dBFS

should
be passed totally clean, given that so many CDs now are mastered right up

to
0dBFS, playing one of these CDs through the sound card will make an

already
poor CD sound worse, so no, in my real world, Digital stuff is totally

good
to 0dBFS, not just to -1dB (or even -0.1dBFS). My now 10 year old Digigram
card is, so why is modern stuff worse?

As to levels, I should have made clear I require balanced analogue ins and
outs and digital I/O as well, although in this case, unbalanced S-PDIF is
fine, I don't need balanced AES-EBU. Ideally, I'd like the analogue ins

and
outs to provide EBU recommended levels of +18dBu for 0dBFS, but I'd be
satisfied with +8dBu. Again, my 10 year old card does +10dBu in and out,

so
why not something modern?


Plenty do. Keep looking.

As for 0dB FS, most cards/boxes *output* that level just fine, so no problem
with playing clipped CD's. And all the good ones I have clip just as you
would expect when hit with an input signal which equates to that level.
Cheap ones as low as 1V, good ones as high as +20dBu. Attenuators are not
dear to make however. Normal practice is to *avoid* input levels which clip
however, and 100dB+ DNR is usually enough for me to do that.
What *you* do in the mastering process is up to you.

MrT.


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Default digitalizing vinyl records


"geoff" wrote in message
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No it doesn't - the RIAA curve is a factnor of the LP. Nothing to do
with the type of cartridge.


Not so, a ceramic, or crystal cartridge, (and some of the new
el-cheapo USB turntables use cheap ceramic cartridges once more) do
NOT require the same EQ as for magnetic types.


Do they have a built in RIAA curve or something ?!!


You could say that, an inherent response which *approximates* the RIAA curve
without adding further EQ.
Good enough for the market this junk is aimed at.

MrT.


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Serge Auckland[_2_] Serge Auckland[_2_] is offline
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Default digitalizing vinyl records


"geoff" wrote in message
...
Serge Auckland wrote:


Any sound card that clips hard at 0dBFS is, in my view, broken. 0dBFS
should be passed totally clean, given that so many CDs now are
mastered right up to 0dBFS, playing one of these CDs through the
sound card will make an already poor CD sound worse, so no, in my
real world, Digital stuff is totally good to 0dBFS, not just to -1dB
(or even -0.1dBFS). My now 10 year old Digigram card is, so why is
modern stuff worse?


Um, how can you possibly ever go over 0dBFS ? Do some homework as
understand just how silly that makes you look !


geoff



Firstly, YOU do your homework, the ANALOGUE output can go over the 0dBFS
level under certain circumstances. Look up Jim Lesurf's work on the subject.

Secondly, the ANALOGUE output has to be totally clean when playing a 0dBFS
DIGITAL signal, not just one that goes to -1dBFS or even -0.1dBFS.

Amateurs....shees.....

S.
--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com

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Mr.T Mr.T is offline
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Default digitalizing vinyl records


"Serge Auckland" wrote in message
...
"geoff" wrote in message
Um, how can you possibly ever go over 0dBFS ? Do some homework as
understand just how silly that makes you look !
geoff


Firstly, YOU do your homework, the ANALOGUE output can go over the 0dBFS
level under certain circumstances. Look up Jim Lesurf's work on the

subject.

0dBFS relates to the digital signal only, IF the analog output goes over the
corresponding voltage level set by that card for a 0dBFS signal applied to
it, then its FAULTY.

Secondly, the ANALOGUE output has to be totally clean when playing a 0dBFS
DIGITAL signal, not just one that goes to -1dBFS or even -0.1dBFS.


Absolutely, and even the $20 soundcards do that quite adequately IME.
*IF* you have SPECIFIC instances where this does not happen, please let
others know of the crap they should avoid!!!
Otherwise move on.

MrT.




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Steven Sullivan Steven Sullivan is offline
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Default digitalizing vinyl records

Mr.T MrT@home wrote:

"Serge Auckland" wrote in message
...
"geoff" wrote in message
Um, how can you possibly ever go over 0dBFS ? Do some homework as
understand just how silly that makes you look !
geoff


Firstly, YOU do your homework, the ANALOGUE output can go over the 0dBFS
level under certain circumstances. Look up Jim Lesurf's work on the

subject.


0dBFS relates to the digital signal only, IF the analog output goes over the
corresponding voltage level set by that card for a 0dBFS signal applied to
it, then its FAULTY.


Again, look up Lesurf's or Nielsen & Lund's work, or google 'intersample peaks', about
which pro recording/engineering boards comment not infrequently, I suspect there's probably a
thread or two about it here.

A standard ref:

http://www.tcelectronic.com/media/ni...0_0dbfs_le.pdf

With proper metering at the record/production end and proper D/A at the consumer end, it
shouldn't happen, but apparently that's asking a lot. Perhps things are better these days
than when that paper was written, I don't know.



--
-S
We have it in our power to begin the world over again - Thomas Paine
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