Does anybody have comparing experiences with Neumann KMR82, Sennheiser
816, Sony C-74 or similar? Preferences? Differences?

Jürgen Schöpf wrote:

Does anybody have comparing experiences with Neumann KMR82, Sennheiser
816, Sony C-74 or similar? Preferences? Differences?

The Browning Citori blows them all away.

?B?SsO8cmdlbiBTY2jDtnBm?= wrote:
Does anybody have comparing experiences with Neumann KMR82, Sennheiser
816, Sony C-74 or similar? Preferences? Differences?

For what?

I'll say that the 416 does a better job of pulling a voice out of the muck
than anything else around. Definitely better than the Neumann short shot
or the Sony. It's not very natural sounding, but it's very present.

The 816 is a little bit better than the 416, but weighs a lot more. It's
nastier off-axis, but the effective rejection is a little better. Your boom
op will hate you for it, though.

The new Schoeps thing is not really a true shotgun, and as a result it is
a lot smoother off-axis than anything else around. It's got more leakage
than the 416, but a more natural voice sound and the leakage that is there
is a lot more natural. I think it's a good choice when you need something
outside that is tighter than a hypercardioid, and it even sort of works
indoors (which the 416 will not) because the room sound is a little less
nasty.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

hey Scott ?

Have you heard the AT835ST?Rode nt1?

Agent 86 schrieb:
Jürgen Schöpf wrote:


Does anybody have comparing experiences with Neumann KMR82, Sennheiser
816, Sony C-74 or similar? Preferences? Differences?


The Browning Citori blows them all away.


Sure, if you can handle them. I don't and don't want to.
Peace Man! Arms to the Police, and nowhere else!
:-J

Scott Dorsey schrieb:
?B?SsO8cmdlbiBTY2jDtnBm?= wrote:

Does anybody have comparing experiences with Neumann KMR82, Sennheiser
816, Sony C-74 or similar? Preferences? Differences?


For what?

I'll say that the 416 does a better job of pulling a voice out of the muck
than anything else around. Definitely better than the Neumann short shot
or the Sony. It's not very natural sounding, but it's very present.

The 816 is a little bit better than the 416, but weighs a lot more. It's
nastier off-axis, but the effective rejection is a little better. Your boom
op will hate you for it, though.

The new Schoeps thing is not really a true shotgun, and as a result it is
a lot smoother off-axis than anything else around. It's got more leakage
than the 416, but a more natural voice sound and the leakage that is there
is a lot more natural. I think it's a good choice when you need something
outside that is tighter than a hypercardioid, and it even sort of works
indoors (which the 416 will not) because the room sound is a little less
nasty.
--scott

Dear Scott,

I expected that question. I don't have a specific job to do with them.
But lets say: what would you use for birds?

I am interested in the differences the shotguns have, and guess they are
larger than average SD cardioids. It seems that people compare a lot
cardioids and hypercardioids, but for the limited use that shotguns are
good, few people take the fuss comparing many, I guess. I own a KMR82i
and recently bought a Neumann RSM191 for indoor use on the DV-camera.

:-J

In article ,
=?ISO-8859-15?Q?J=FCrgen_Sch=F6pf?= wrote:

I expected that question. I don't have a specific job to do with them.
But lets say: what would you use for birds?

For birds, I'd probably skip it and go the parabolic dish route. For
birds, you really don't care about anything below 1 KHz or so anyway.
The Cornell Department of Ornithology has a nice handout somewhere on
bird recording and has reviewed a bunch of the dishes.

I am interested in the differences the shotguns have, and guess they are
larger than average SD cardioids. It seems that people compare a lot
cardioids and hypercardioids, but for the limited use that shotguns are
good, few people take the fuss comparing many, I guess. I own a KMR82i
and recently bought a Neumann RSM191 for indoor use on the DV-camera.

I think the 816 is nearly 75 cm long. The shotguns are basically a
small cardioid with an interference tube assembly in front. The longer
the interference tube, the more directional the mike is, and the worse
it performs off-axis. So you basically have this one major compromise
with all of them.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article . com,
Rado Stefano wrote:
hey Scott ?

Have you heard the AT835ST?Rode nt1?

I have heard the original AT835, which is okay. Not very solid pattern
to it, and the vertical and horizontal patterns are a little different,
but usable and pretty cheap. Lots of handling noise and kind of flimsy
construction.

I have not used the stereo variant. I cannot imagine that the stereo
image is going to be all that wonderful... the Neumann stereo shotgun
is definitely not so great. If you're using a shotgun, usually the last
thing you care about is getting a stereo image... I'll take narrow pattern
over almost anything.

The Rode NT1 is not a shotgun and not useful for that sort of application.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey schrieb:
In article ,
=?ISO-8859-15?Q?J=FCrgen_Sch=F6pf?= wrote:

I expected that question. I don't have a specific job to do with them.
But lets say: what would you use for birds?


For birds, I'd probably skip it and go the parabolic dish route. For
birds, you really don't care about anything below 1 KHz or so anyway.
The Cornell Department of Ornithology has a nice handout somewhere on
bird recording and has reviewed a bunch of the dishes.


I am interested in the differences the shotguns have, and guess they are
larger than average SD cardioids. It seems that people compare a lot
cardioids and hypercardioids, but for the limited use that shotguns are
good, few people take the fuss comparing many, I guess. I own a KMR82i
and recently bought a Neumann RSM191 for indoor use on the DV-camera.


I think the 816 is nearly 75 cm long. The shotguns are basically a
small cardioid with an interference tube assembly in front. The longer
the interference tube, the more directional the mike is, and the worse
it performs off-axis. So you basically have this one major compromise
with all of them.
--scott


Thank you, Scott. The principle is clear. I was rather out for stuff
like your comment on the AT835 with its pattern specialities that you
mentioned. I'd like to know such specialties for the Neumann, Sennheiser
and the Sony. Yes, if you need a shotgun, you usually don't care about
stereo. But I bought the Neumann RSM191 for use on the DV-camera to have
a nice stereo possibility without having to broadcast my main mix.

:-J

=?ISO-8859-15?Q?J=FCrgen_Sch=F6pf?= wrote:

Thank you, Scott. The principle is clear. I was rather out for stuff
like your comment on the AT835 with its pattern specialities that you
mentioned. I'd like to know such specialties for the Neumann, Sennheiser
and the Sony. Yes, if you need a shotgun, you usually don't care about
stereo. But I bought the Neumann RSM191 for use on the DV-camera to have
a nice stereo possibility without having to broadcast my main mix.

Basically, I think of the shotgun as a last-ditch thing that you use
to get voices out of the muck outdoors when nothing else works. It's a
desperate sort of measure. And that being the case, you want something as
directional as you can get even if it otherwise sounds bad.

The Schoeps shotgun might make me feel a little different... but really
the Schoeps isn't exactly a normal shotgun.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

shotgun recommendation

Group: rec.audio.pro Date: Thu, Mar 9, 2006, 9:26pm (EST+5) From:
(Agent*86)
Jürgen Schöpf wrote:

Does anybody have comparing experiences with Neumann KMR82, Sennheiser
816, Sony C-74 or similar? Preferences? Differences?

The Browning Citori blows them all away.

As does anything by Perazzi, Kolar, Krieghoff, not forgetting to mention
my Browning Broadway.


Eric

shotgun recommendation

Group: rec.audio.pro Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2006, 11:06am (EST+6) From:
(Jürgen*Schöpf)
Agent 86 schrieb:
Jürgen Schöpf wrote:

Does anybody have comparing experiences with Neumann KMR82, Sennheiser
816, Sony C-74 or similar? Preferences? Differences?

The Browning Citori blows them all away.

Sure, if you can handle them.

I do all the time. No problem in handling them at all.


I don't and don't want to.

You should try competitive target shooting. Great sport.


Peace Man!

Arms to the Police, and nowhere else! :-J

You really don't want that sceanario.

Eric

On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:16:56 -0500, Scott Dorsey wrote
(in article ):

In article . com,
Rado Stefano wrote:
hey Scott ?

Have you heard the AT835ST?Rode nt1?

I have heard the original AT835, which is okay. Not very solid pattern
to it, and the vertical and horizontal patterns are a little different,
but usable and pretty cheap. Lots of handling noise and kind of flimsy
construction.

I have not used the stereo variant. I cannot imagine that the stereo
image is going to be all that wonderful... the Neumann stereo shotgun
is definitely not so great. If you're using a shotgun, usually the last
thing you care about is getting a stereo image... I'll take narrow pattern
over almost anything.

The Rode NT1 is not a shotgun and not useful for that sort of application.
--scott



REviews of them and other mics are always available in my online archive.
Click on the Online archive link atop column #2 on my site.

Look in the Schoeps CMIT folder for the video comparison with the 416 and
other audio file comparisons.

Regards,

Ty Ford


-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

Eric Toline schrieb:

shotgun recommendation

Group: rec.audio.pro Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2006, 11:06am (EST+6) From:
(Jürgen Schöpf)
Agent 86 schrieb:
Jürgen Schöpf wrote:

Does anybody have comparing experiences with Neumann KMR82, Sennheiser
816, Sony C-74 or similar? Preferences? Differences?

The Browning Citori blows them all away.

Sure, if you can handle them.

I do all the time. No problem in handling them at all.


I don't and don't want to.

You should try competitive target shooting. Great sport.


Peace Man!

Arms to the Police, and nowhere else! :-J

You really don't want that sceanario.

Well, we have it in Europe more or less strict in most countries.
Significantly less shot people.
:-J

Eric Toline wrote:


shotgun recommendation

Group: rec.audio.pro Date: Thu, Mar 9, 2006, 9:26pm (EST+5) From:
(AgentÂ*86)
Jürgen Schöpf wrote:

Does anybody have comparing experiences with Neumann KMR82, Sennheiser
816, Sony C-74 or similar? Preferences? Differences?

The Browning Citori blows them all away.

As does anything by Perazzi, Kolar, Krieghoff, not forgetting to mention
my Browning Broadway.

Now, to modify my skeet thrower to fling a Chinese condenser...

Pull!

wrote:

Does anybody have comparing experiences with Neumann KMR82, Sennheiser
816, Sony C-74 or similar? Preferences? Differences?

Scott Dorsey wrote:

For what?

I'll say that the 416 does a better job of pulling a voice out of the muck
than anything else around. Definitely better than the Neumann short shot
or the Sony. It's not very natural sounding, but it's very present.

The 816 is a little bit better than the 416, but weighs a lot more. It's
nastier off-axis, but the effective rejection is a little better. Your boom
op will hate you for it, though.

Any comment about the AKG CK69 capsule for
someone who may already have the C460/C480 ?

rd

RD Jones wrote:

Any comment about the AKG CK69 capsule for
someone who may already have the C460/C480 ?

It is a little edgy on top when you're right on it, and it doesn't have the
sense of presence that the 416 has, but if you're not using it day in and
day out, it'll be okay. You can do a lot worse. And they are just amazingly
consistent from unit to unit, which is kind of rare for shotguns.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
RD Jones wrote:

Any comment about the AKG CK69 capsule for
someone who may already have the C460/C480 ?

It is a little edgy on top when you're right on it, and it doesn't have the
sense of presence that the 416 has, but if you're not using it day in and
day out, it'll be okay. You can do a lot worse. And they are just amazingly
consistent from unit to unit, which is kind of rare for shotguns.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott,
I already own a pair of AKG C-452-EB with a CK-1, CK-2, and CK-5. I
was thinking of looking for a used CK-8 or a CK-9. Are you familiar
with those two shotgun mic's? I would just be using it for rare
occassions when I might help out on a student film.

wrote:

I already own a pair of AKG C-452-EB with a CK-1, CK-2, and CK-5. I
was thinking of looking for a used CK-8 or a CK-9. Are you familiar
with those two shotgun mic's? I would just be using it for rare
occassions when I might help out on a student film.


I got a CK9 as part of a settlement once. After hearing the results of
my first time using it I figured I must be doing something wrong. I
sold it after the second try. I got exactly *one* offer, and it was
low. Really low.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

Lorin David Schultz wrote:

TheBenevolentUniversePremisewrote:

I already own a pair of AKG C-452-EB with a CK-1, CK-2, and CK-5. I
was thinking of looking for a used CK-8 or a CK-9. Are you familiar
with those two shotgun mic's? I would just be using it for rare
occassions when I might help out on a student film.

I got a CK9 as part of a settlement once. After hearing the results of
my first time using it I figured I must be doing something wrong. I
sold it after the second try. I got exactly *one* offer, and it was
low. Really low.

There's a rave for the new Schoeps shotgun over in RAMPS.

--
ha

hank alrich wrote:
Lorin David Schultz wrote:
TheBenevolentUniversePremisewrote:

I already own a pair of AKG C-452-EB with a CK-1, CK-2, and CK-5. I
was thinking of looking for a used CK-8 or a CK-9. Are you familiar
with those two shotgun mic's? I would just be using it for rare
occassions when I might help out on a student film.

I got a CK9 as part of a settlement once. After hearing the results of
my first time using it I figured I must be doing something wrong. I
sold it after the second try. I got exactly *one* offer, and it was
low. Really low.

There's a rave for the new Schoeps shotgun over in RAMPS.

It's worth raving about, but if you look carefully, it's not really a
shotgun. It's got a little interference tube in front, but most of the
actual directionality comes from the venting. It's like a super-narrow
cardioid mike with a short tube. That's why it doesn't sound like crap
five degrees off-axis like a standard shotgun does.

Schoeps swore for years that shotguns were evil and they'd never make
one, but they finally gave into pressure from the film sound community.
What they came up with, though, is very different than what everyone is
used to.

The only problem is that it costs a little bit more than a used CK-9,
by about two orders of magnitude, I think...
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:

I used one twenty-five years ago with a Uher 4000 but I don't remember a damn
thing about how well they worked, to be honest. I do know you can put a
CK-69 on that thing with an adaptor, though.

Nah... There's no adapter that will allow using the capsules for
C460/480 on a C451. There are only adapters for the other direction,
e.g. for a CK1 on a C480.


Daniel

Daniel Fuchs wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

I used one twenty-five years ago with a Uher 4000 but I don't remember a damn
thing about how well they worked, to be honest. I do know you can put a
CK-69 on that thing with an adaptor, though.

Nah... There's no adapter that will allow using the capsules for
C460/480 on a C451. There are only adapters for the other direction,
e.g. for a CK1 on a C480.

I could swear I have seen them recently. Was it BLUE that was making them?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:

I could swear I have seen them recently. Was it BLUE that was making them?

Dunno... But there's no such thing from AKG. If somebody else makes such
an adapter, I haven't heard of it...


Daniel

shotgun recommendation

Group: rec.audio.pro Date: Sat, Mar 11, 2006, 8:14am From:
(Scott*Dorsey)
hank alrich wrote:
Lorin David Schultz wrote:
TheBenevolentUniversePremisewrote:
I already own a pair of AKG C-452-EB with a CK-1, CK-2, and CK-5. I was
thinking of looking for a used CK-8 or a CK-9. Are you familiar with
those two shotgun mic's? I would just be using it for rare occassions
when I might help out on a student film.
I got a CK9 as part of a settlement once. After hearing the results of
my first time using it I figured I must be doing something wrong. I sold
it after the second try. I got exactly *one* offer, and it was low.
Really low.
There's a rave for the new Schoeps shotgun over in RAMPS.

Schoeps swore for years that shotguns were evil and they'd never make
one, but they finally gave into pressure from the film sound community.
What they came up with, though, is very different than what everyone is
used to.

The only problem is that it costs a little bit more than a used CK-9, by
about two orders of magnitude, I think... --scott

The Schoeps shotgun CMIT5 is $1700 or $1800. BTW CMIT stands for
"Condensor Microphone Interference Tube" . Don't know what the 5 is for,
perhaps the 5th variation?

Eric