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Shotgun mics
My wife is traveling to Africa to make a documentary film and needs to
buy a shotgun mic. I'm going to help her with the purchase. I am assuming that she'll get a short shotgun (she has a lav already). This will sometimes be used on a boom and sometimes on camera. It will be primarily for interviews where the mic has to stay out of the picture (meaning 4 - 6 ft from the subject). In the past I have used the Sennheiser K6/ME66 combinantion. I find it a bit too harsh, and has too much sibilance (although the recordings have been quite useful). What are your opinions on the alternatives: Sennheiser MKH-60, 70 or 80 Rode NTG 2 or Rode Video Mic (with integral shock mount) Audio Technica AT 835b or AT 4073a Sony C 74 EV RE45 ND (Dynamic) I have an older AKG 451. How good is the short shotgun capsule for this (If I can find one used), Will the new short shotgun capsule for the AKG 460 work with the 451 (and is it any good). Thanks for the info. Ken Winokur |
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#2
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#4
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wrote:
My wife is traveling to Africa to make a documentary film and needs to buy a shotgun mic. I'm going to help her with the purchase. I am assuming that she'll get a short shotgun (she has a lav already). This will sometimes be used on a boom and sometimes on camera. It will be primarily for interviews where the mic has to stay out of the picture (meaning 4 - 6 ft from the subject). Personally, I think a shotgun is usually a very bad choice for this sort of thing. But sometimes there is no way around it. The question is how much money you want to spend for something you don't use very much. In the past I have used the Sennheiser K6/ME66 combinantion. I find it a bit too harsh, and has too much sibilance (although the recordings have been quite useful). If you really want a shotgun, go with the MKH-416. It's not all that smooth, but the 416 remains an industry standard and it will really pull signal out of the muck. What are your opinions on the alternatives: Sennheiser MKH-60, 70 or 80 One of these is not even a shotgun. The MKH-70 is definitely cleaner than the old 416, but it's not as good at pulling stuff out of the noise. Remember, you're going to be using a hypercard most of the time anyway, so when conditions are such that you pull out the shotgun, you want it to be as solid as possible. Rode NTG 2 or Rode Video Mic (with integral shock mount) These appear to be total crap. Audio Technica AT 835b or AT 4073a These sort of work. You could use them if you had nothing better. Sony C 74 Never used one. EV RE45 ND (Dynamic) Totally useless. I have an older AKG 451. How good is the short shotgun capsule for this (If I can find one used), Will the new short shotgun capsule for the AKG 460 work with the 451 (and is it any good). You can't get the adaptor to put the new short shotgun capsule on, as far as I know. And it's okay, but it isn't in the same league as the 416, while costing more. Once you have a good hypercard in the kit, then get a 416. Everybody hates interference tube mikes, and they admittedly never sound very natural, but sometimes you can't get around it. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#5
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"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message Rode NTG 2 or Rode Video Mic (with integral shock mount) These appear to be total crap. "Appear to be " ? They appear to be quite good to me. And sound quite good too. On a par with AKG C480/CK69 . The videoMic is a relatively low cost device that is markedly better than anything standard on a cam-corder that I've ever come across (no porn jokes pse.) geoff |
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#6
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Does AKG have anything that resembles a shotgun? Something like an 835
perhaps? I used one a few years back and seem to recall it being very useful, but the situation was very forgiving. My 184 would have done the trick. Rick Hollett "Scott Dorsey" wrote in message ... wrote: My wife is traveling to Africa to make a documentary film and needs to buy a shotgun mic. I'm going to help her with the purchase. I am assuming that she'll get a short shotgun (she has a lav already). This will sometimes be used on a boom and sometimes on camera. It will be primarily for interviews where the mic has to stay out of the picture (meaning 4 - 6 ft from the subject). Personally, I think a shotgun is usually a very bad choice for this sort of thing. But sometimes there is no way around it. The question is how much money you want to spend for something you don't use very much. In the past I have used the Sennheiser K6/ME66 combinantion. I find it a bit too harsh, and has too much sibilance (although the recordings have been quite useful). If you really want a shotgun, go with the MKH-416. It's not all that smooth, but the 416 remains an industry standard and it will really pull signal out of the muck. What are your opinions on the alternatives: Sennheiser MKH-60, 70 or 80 One of these is not even a shotgun. The MKH-70 is definitely cleaner than the old 416, but it's not as good at pulling stuff out of the noise. Remember, you're going to be using a hypercard most of the time anyway, so when conditions are such that you pull out the shotgun, you want it to be as solid as possible. Rode NTG 2 or Rode Video Mic (with integral shock mount) These appear to be total crap. Audio Technica AT 835b or AT 4073a These sort of work. You could use them if you had nothing better. Sony C 74 Never used one. EV RE45 ND (Dynamic) Totally useless. I have an older AKG 451. How good is the short shotgun capsule for this (If I can find one used), Will the new short shotgun capsule for the AKG 460 work with the 451 (and is it any good). You can't get the adaptor to put the new short shotgun capsule on, as far as I know. And it's okay, but it isn't in the same league as the 416, while costing more. Once you have a good hypercard in the kit, then get a 416. Everybody hates interference tube mikes, and they admittedly never sound very natural, but sometimes you can't get around it. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#7
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Rick Hollett wrote:
Does AKG have anything that resembles a shotgun? Something like an 835 perhaps? I used one a few years back and seem to recall it being very useful, but the situation was very forgiving. My 184 would have done the trick. Yes, AKG has short and long tube capsules for the C460/C480 designs, and they used to make a different one for the old C451. They are not as tight as the 416 and 816 but they might be a bit more natural off-axis for whatever that is worth. And, they don't have the huge honking presence peak of the 416 (which I consider a disadvantage for the application). Beyerdynamic also makes a similar shotgun design. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#8
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Shotgun mics Group: rec.audio.pro Date: Mon, Sep 19, 2005, 7:17pm (EDT+1:30) From: (Rick=A0Hollett) Does AKG have anything that resembles a shotgun? Something like an 835 perhaps? I used one a few years back and seem to recall it being very useful, but the situation was very forgiving. My 184 would have done the trick. Rick Hollett The AKG Blueline comes to mind. It's modular with an array of capsules from omni to short shotgun that sound very nice. Reasonably priced. Eric |
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#9
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"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message ... Geoff@work wrote: "Scott Dorsey" wrote in message Rode NTG 2 or Rode Video Mic (with integral shock mount) These appear to be total crap. "Appear to be " ? They appear to be quite good to me. And sound quite good too. On a par with AKG C480/CK69 . The minute anyone says _any_ interference tube mike "sounds quite good" I begin to think they haven't been listening very hard. Sounds quite good in terms of the type of mic specified. No point in comparing shotguns to LDCs or whatever. ANd we were specifically talking shotguns, yes ? The videoMic is a relatively low cost device that is markedly better than anything standard on a cam-corder that I've ever come across (no porn jokes pse.) Well, there's damning with faint praise. That's where itthe VideoMic is aimed and priced. And IMO acheives what it aims to admirably. What did you think of the sound of the NTG2 and VideoMic, in comparison with mics of similar nature ? geoff |
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#11
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Perhaps I should go back to the beginning and rephrase my question.
What would be the best all purpose mic for somebody to take on a video shoot - hypercard or short shotgun. Primary use will be interviews (indoor and outdoor). My experience in location sound is very limited. I've used the short shotguns a few times because they were what I could borrow. I thought that the shotgun would be preferable for interviews or dialogue because it would cut out more ambience. The recent shoot where I helped with sound, where we used the Sennheiser ME 66, was in an ordinary living room. With the mic on a boom, as close to the actors as possible (about 4 - 6 ft) there was still too much room reverb in the recording (usable, but not ideal). This was a quiet room so it wasn't necessary to deal with extranious sound sources. Also, it might be worth considering that my wife's shoot will be with a small crew, and there is not likely to be a separate sound guy. If somebody's holding the boom, it will be either the producer or my wife, who is directing. Sometimes the mic will be on camera. It's likely that nobody will be as on top of keeping the mic pointed correctly and as close as possible (or critically listening to the actual signal). |
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#12
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kenwinokur wrote ...
Also, it might be worth considering that my wife's shoot will be with a small crew, and there is not likely to be a separate sound guy. If somebody's holding the boom, it will be either the producer or my wife, who is directing. Sometimes the mic will be on camera. It's likely that nobody will be as on top of keeping the mic pointed correctly and as close as possible (or critically listening to the actual signal). Then audio is only for background sounds? This doesn't reflect the kind of priority you would expect to see if, for example, you were shooting interviews where you actually need to hear what is being said. OTOH, if the dialog is not in the language of the finished production, it only has to be good enough for the VO translator to hear/understand. |
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#13
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No, the audio will be the interview itself - essential that it can be
understood and sounds good. She (my wife, Jane Gillooly, award winning director of POV LEONA'S SISTER GERRY) is working in South Aftrica, in the townships. I'm sure some of the interviews will be in English (and probably others in Zulu or whatever - to be translated). This is only the first use of the mic. There will be many other productions in the future. |
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#14
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Geoff@work wrote:
What did you think of the sound of the NTG2 and VideoMic, in comparison with mics of similar nature ? I found them thinner and much, much less directional. The ability to cut outside noise out, even compared with the cheap Shure was pretty poor, especially in the midrange. It seems the frequency at which the microphone becomes directional was much higher. I think they try and compensate for this with more lower midrange cut, which really is bad. I'm very big on getting the most natural voice sound possible, but I understand that usually when you're having to resort to a shotgun, you are just trying to get anything at all rather than the most natural sound. That's why the presence peak on the 416, which is anything but natural, turns out to be a good idea in a lot of cases. But even the 416 has reasonable fullness to the voice. Needless to say, all of these mikes just sound awful when you get off-axis. A lot of folks do judge shotguns by how bad the comb filtering off-axis is, but again, I figure if you are in a situation where this is an issue you shouldn't be using a shotgun. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#15
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wrote:
Perhaps I should go back to the beginning and rephrase my question. What would be the best all purpose mic for somebody to take on a video shoot - hypercard or short shotgun. Primary use will be interviews (indoor and outdoor). In a humid environment? I'd go with the Sennheiser MKH-50. If you don't have the humidity issues, I'd pick the Schoeps with the hypercard capsule. On a budget, you might try the Audio-Technica AT4053. My experience in location sound is very limited. I've used the short shotguns a few times because they were what I could borrow. I thought that the shotgun would be preferable for interviews or dialogue because it would cut out more ambience. The recent shoot where I helped with sound, where we used the Sennheiser ME 66, was in an ordinary living room. With the mic on a boom, as close to the actors as possible (about 4 - 6 ft) there was still too much room reverb in the recording (usable, but not ideal). This was a quiet room so it wasn't necessary to deal with extranious sound sources. You'll find that the shotgun basically does nothing about room reverb indoors. For indoor situations, the hypercard will give you far better intelligbility and a more natural sound than the shotgun. But sometimes outdoors in a noisy environment, you need the shotgun. Also, it might be worth considering that my wife's shoot will be with a small crew, and there is not likely to be a separate sound guy. If somebody's holding the boom, it will be either the producer or my wife, who is directing. Sometimes the mic will be on camera. It's likely that nobody will be as on top of keeping the mic pointed correctly and as close as possible (or critically listening to the actual signal). In that case, consider just going with lav mikes. Mike-on-camera is always a bad idea, and a boom mike being held by someone without headphones on is probably just as bad. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#16
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I have used the Senn 815 on a boom, or handheld .. If I only had one
mike I would use it. For documentary "pulling good sound out of the muck" calls for the most powerful tool -- is there something better? Or cheaper? Please let me know!! .. Yes the 416/415 is better on a short boom for an interview where you can control the action but sometimes you need good sound effects, atmosphere ... You could also use the on camera mike on a pole into channel two (or double system) with a lavalier into channel one. Those 3 mikes give you a lot of options |
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#17
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wrote:
In the past I have used the Sennheiser K6/ME66 combinantion. I find it a bit too harsh, and has too much sibilance (although the recordings have been quite useful). The old, discontinued ME80 is a good alternative to the ME66. Similar pattern, but fuller and darker sounding. These can usually be found on eBay. Use of a non-standard battery means you'll need to get phantom power from the mixer (or, if there's no mixer, the camera). What are your opinions on the alternatives: Sennheiser MKH-60, 70 or 80 I use a 60 quite often and like it. Good rejection off axis, and what it does pick up off axis is less weird sounding that most directional mics. Note that these are available in both battery powered and phantom only versions. Rode NTG 2 or Rode Video Mic (with integral shock mount) Never tried either. Audio Technica AT 835b or AT 4073a Ick. Low output, and what's there is pretty thin. Our ENG guys have 835s, and I wish they didn't. One of our freelancers recently bought the newer one, and returned it the same day. (He wound up buying one of my old ME80s and is really happy with it.) I don't know anything about the others you mentioned. -- "It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!" - Lorin David Schultz in the control room making even bad news sound good (Remove spamblock to reply) |
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#18
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wrote in message ups.com... No, the audio will be the interview itself - essential that it can be understood and sounds good. She (my wife, Jane Gillooly, award winning director of POV LEONA'S SISTER GERRY) is working in South Aftrica, in the townships. I'm sure some of the interviews will be in English (and probably others in Zulu or whatever - to be translated). This is only the first use of the mic. There will be many other productions in the future. I don't think you need a shotgun mic at all. As others have mentioned, they are always a compromise, trading 'throw' and pattern for fidelity and artifacts. I would suggest a small diameter (or medium) condenser mic, maybe with battery-powering option. A RODE NT3 is one such mic. Hell - I saw a high-profile show to do with world musiic where a C1000 was used ! Alternatively a more esoteric mic with separate battery podule adaptor. Also take a dynamic (SM57 ?) for emergency backup. geoff |
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#19
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"Lorin David Schultz" wrote in message news:1pYXe.248767$HI.226686@edtnps84... wrote: In the past I have used the Sennheiser K6/ME66 combinantion. I find it a bit too harsh, and has too much sibilance (although the recordings have been quite useful). The old, discontinued ME80 is a good alternative to the ME66. Similar pattern, but fuller and darker sounding. These can usually be found on eBay. Use of a non-standard battery means you'll need to get phantom power from the mixer (or, if there's no mixer, the camera). There are substitute batteries that fit the ME80 battery compartment just fine. Whatever choice you make for a boom mic, I'd take an Electrovoice 635, because, when everything else fails, it will work. Steve King |
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#20
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Edi Zubovic wrote:
-- The larger the tube the larger the amount of colorations and "phasing" effects ie. swishes at every move. A good windshield set is also recommended. I'd say "required" without any reservation. Not that the windshield and shockmount will cost almost as much as a good shotgun mic. |
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#21
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Lorin David Schultz wrote:
The old, discontinued ME80 is a good alternative to the ME66. Similar pattern, but fuller and darker sounding. These can usually be found on eBay. Use of a non-standard battery means you'll need to get phantom power from the mixer (or, if there's no mixer, the camera). There are batteries available now. |
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#22
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#23
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In article , Kurt Albershardt
wrote: Use of a non-standard battery means you'll need to get phantom power from the mixer (or, if there's no mixer, the camera). I stock the batteries... -- Regards, Klay Anderson http://www.klay.com +801-942-8346 |
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#24
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Steve King wrote:
There are substitute batteries that fit the ME80 battery compartment just fine. Yes, I think it's the PX12. I'm not a fan of the ME80 at all, but again it kind of works and if you don't have better, use it. Whatever choice you make for a boom mic, I'd take an Electrovoice 635, because, when everything else fails, it will work. Absolutely agreed. I keep one in the glove compartment of my car and another in my shaving case. The 635A is absolutely essential. When the backup fails and the backup to the backup fails, the 635A keeps working. And sometimes you find yourself needing an omni. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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