Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
henrytj henrytj is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Zoom 4H digital recorder

I have been helping on some no-budget movie projects. Although, like
everyone else, I would love to do camera, DP, ect. But the audio seems
rather open. Some of the productions that I have helped with use the
on camera mic. So I have gotten together with some friends and we have
put together a kit (shotgut mic, painter pole converted to a boom
pole, a lavaliere mic. I am considering getting a Zoom H4 to add to
the kit for recording when I can't be cabled to the camera (like in a
shot with a moving camera.) Yes, I read that the H4, and other under
$1000 recorders have noise problems, but still this must be better
that using the on camera mic. Also the H4 looks to be on clearance
sale ($219 at B&H) as the next model seems to be out (H4N).

Anyway, anyone have experience using the Zoom H4 for low budget movie
work that they would like to provide?

Thank you,
Henry
  #2   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,853
Default Zoom 4H digital recorder

In article ,
henrytj wrote:
I have been helping on some no-budget movie projects. Although, like
everyone else, I would love to do camera, DP, ect. But the audio seems
rather open. Some of the productions that I have helped with use the
on camera mic. So I have gotten together with some friends and we have
put together a kit (shotgut mic, painter pole converted to a boom
pole, a lavaliere mic. I am considering getting a Zoom H4 to add to
the kit for recording when I can't be cabled to the camera (like in a
shot with a moving camera.) Yes, I read that the H4, and other under
$1000 recorders have noise problems, but still this must be better
that using the on camera mic. Also the H4 looks to be on clearance
sale ($219 at B&H) as the next model seems to be out (H4N).

Anyway, anyone have experience using the Zoom H4 for low budget movie
work that they would like to provide?


You can use it. It doesn't stink. It does not provide real confidence
monitoring, but life is like that. It will probably be more reliable than
a wireless link to the camera.

Synchronization WILL require a slate. Slate the beginning and end of
each take and don't try and skip a slate. Have someone on set whose job
it is to keep a list of what camera files and what sound files go together
and with which takes.

I STRONGLY recommend, though, that you get a good hypercardioid before you
do anything else.

I also suggest that it is MUCH easier to keep a boom operator on your crew
if you have a real boom instead of a painter's pole. I know, you can do it,
we have all done it, but after eight hours of holding the thing you will
have real trouble getting your boom op back for a second day.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #3   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
henrytj henrytj is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Zoom 4H digital recorder

On Jun 4, 2:31*pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

You can use it. *It doesn't stink. *It does not provide real confidence
monitoring, but life is like that. *It will probably be more reliable than
a wireless link to the camera.

Synchronization WILL require a slate. *Slate the beginning and end of
each take and don't try and skip a slate. *Have someone on set whose job
it is to keep a list of what camera files and what sound files go together
and with which takes.

I STRONGLY recommend, though, that you get a good hypercardioid before you
do anything else.

I also suggest that it is MUCH easier to keep a boom operator on your crew
if you have a real boom instead of a painter's pole. *I know, you can do it,
we have all done it, but after eight hours of holding the thing you will
have real trouble getting your boom op back for a second day.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. *C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


Thanks. It turns out that I've been the one that has been the boom op.
I have so far done both set photography and boom op. And been an extra
when absolutely needed.

25 years ago I did take film production courses back in college. And
now, that I am frequently out of work I have time to help out with
projects. So I'm trying to help out with everything.

Having a person for every job is rather iffy. As the projects I help
with are not paying its often difficult to get enough crew such that
people don't have to double up on positions.
  #4   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,744
Default Zoom 4H digital recorder

henrytj wrote:

I am considering getting a Zoom H4 to add to
the kit for recording when I can't be cabled to the camera (like in a
shot with a moving camera.) Yes, I read that the H4, and other under
$1000 recorders have noise problems


You have? Problems? Exactly what have you heard? I've gone over quite
a few of them, and some lack gain on the external mic inputs (which could
result in excessive noise). Is that what you're talking about? If so, the H4
is pretty good with external mics, and it supplies 48V phantom power. The
H2 works quite well with its internal mics and line level sources, but not
well when using external mics connected to its mic input. Better to use
a preamp into the line input.


--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me he
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)
  #5   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Peter Larsen[_3_] Peter Larsen[_3_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,295
Default Zoom 4H digital recorder

Mike Rivers wrote:

| henrytj wrote:

|| I am considering getting a Zoom H4 to add to
|| the kit for recording when I can't be cabled to the camera (like in
|| a shot with a moving camera.) Yes, I read that the H4, and other
|| under $1000 recorders have noise problems

| You have? Problems? Exactly what have you heard? I've gone over quite
| a few of them, and some lack gain on the external mic inputs (which
| could result in excessive noise). Is that what you're talking about?
| If so, the H4 is pretty good with external mics, and it supplies 48V
| phantom power. The H2 works quite well with its internal mics and
| line level sources, but not well when using external mics connected
| to its mic input. Better to use
| a preamp into the line input.

It took a bit of finagling but I have successfully mastered some H2
recordings in 2008, some of them were underrecorded by 30 dB using the
internal mic with an incorrect gain setting, so Ï'm inclined to say: "not to
worry, configure so that clipping doesn't occur and set and forget.

| double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers

Kind regards

Peter Larsen






  #6   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,744
Default Zoom 4H digital recorder

Peter Larsen wrote:

It took a bit of finagling but I have successfully mastered some H2
recordings in 2008, some of them were underrecorded by 30 dB using the
internal mic with an incorrect gain setting, so Ï'm inclined to say: "not to
worry, configure so that clipping doesn't occur and set and forget.


And the way to do this is to never set the recording level adjustment
higher than 100 (it goes to 127) and keep the meters on screen using
the three-position attenuator switch.

--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me he
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)
  #7   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Jay Kadis Jay Kadis is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 273
Default Zoom 4H digital recorder

In article
,
henrytj wrote:

I have been helping on some no-budget movie projects. Although, like
everyone else, I would love to do camera, DP, ect. But the audio seems
rather open. Some of the productions that I have helped with use the
on camera mic. So I have gotten together with some friends and we have
put together a kit (shotgut mic, painter pole converted to a boom
pole, a lavaliere mic. I am considering getting a Zoom H4 to add to
the kit for recording when I can't be cabled to the camera (like in a
shot with a moving camera.) Yes, I read that the H4, and other under
$1000 recorders have noise problems, but still this must be better
that using the on camera mic. Also the H4 looks to be on clearance
sale ($219 at B&H) as the next model seems to be out (H4N).

Anyway, anyone have experience using the Zoom H4 for low budget movie
work that they would like to provide?

Thank you,
Henry


The newer H4n has improved the preamplifier noise floor quite a bit over
the older H4.

There's a comparison of the H4s and the Sony PCM-D50 at:

http://www.bradlinder.net/2009/03/te...ony-pcm-d50.ht
ml

-Jay
  #8   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
henrytj henrytj is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Zoom 4H digital recorder

On Jun 4, 4:52*pm, Mike Rivers wrote:
henrytj wrote:
I am considering getting a Zoom H4 to add to
the kit for recording when I can't be cabled to the camera (like in a
shot with a moving camera.) Yes, I read that the H4, and other under
$1000 recorders have noise problems


You have? Problems? Exactly what have you heard? I've gone over quite
a few of them, and some lack gain on the external mic inputs (which could
result in excessive noise). Is that what you're talking about? If so, the H4
is pretty good with external mics, and it supplies 48V phantom power. The
H2 works quite well with its internal mics and line level sources, but not
well when using external mics connected to its mic input. Better to use
a preamp into the line input.


I have read on other forums where audio-philes state that they hear
pre-amp noise from almost all lesser-expense equipment. But I am
hoping that whatever I get (maybe the Zoom H4) is still good enough
for no and low-budget movie production. ANd for walking around and
recording sound effects and background sounds to build up my own
library.
  #9   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Richard Crowley Richard Crowley is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,172
Default Zoom 4H digital recorder

"henrytj" wrote ...
Mike Rivers wrote:
henrytj wrote:
I am considering getting a Zoom H4 to add to
the kit for recording when I can't be cabled to the camera (like in a
shot with a moving camera.) Yes, I read that the H4, and other under
$1000 recorders have noise problems


You have? Problems? Exactly what have you heard? I've gone over quite
a few of them, and some lack gain on the external mic inputs (which could
result in excessive noise). Is that what you're talking about? If so, the
H4
is pretty good with external mics, and it supplies 48V phantom power. The
H2 works quite well with its internal mics and line level sources, but
not
well when using external mics connected to its mic input. Better to use
a preamp into the line input.


I have read on other forums where audio-philes state that they hear
pre-amp noise from almost all lesser-expense equipment. But I am
hoping that whatever I get (maybe the Zoom H4) is still good enough
for no and low-budget movie production. ANd for walking around and
recording sound effects and background sounds to build up my own
library.


Note that there virtual (online) communities of people who specialize
in recording ambient sounds (and nature sounds, e.g. "birders", etc.)
They likely have recommendations, or at least on-point anecodotes
of which microphones and recorders they have found to be most
suitable for low-noise recording of low-level sounds like nature/
ambient/birds, etc.


  #10   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
nebulax nebulax is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 263
Default Zoom 4H digital recorder

I found the controls on the H4 to be a real pain to use (lots of
scrolling thru hard to see menus), but it looks like the H4n improves
on that, and just about everything else. Also, you might want to ask
this question on the 'rec.arts.movies.production.sound' newsgroup,
because this question is more in their realm.

-Neb


On Jun 4, 2:24*pm, henrytj wrote:
I have been helping on some no-budget movie projects. Although, like
everyone else, I would love to do camera, DP, ect. But the audio seems
rather open. Some of the productions that I have helped with use the
on camera mic. So I have gotten together with some friends and we have
put together a kit (shotgut mic, painter pole converted to a boom
pole, a lavaliere mic. I am considering getting a Zoom H4 to add to
the kit for recording when I can't be cabled to the camera (like in a
shot with a moving camera.) Yes, I read that the H4, and other under
$1000 recorders have noise problems, but still this must be better
that using the on camera mic. Also the H4 looks to be on clearance
sale ($219 at B&H) as the next model seems to be out (H4N).

Anyway, anyone have experience using the Zoom H4 for low budget movie
work that they would like to provide?

Thank you,
Henry




  #11   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,744
Default Zoom 4H digital recorder

henrytj wrote:

I have read on other forums where audio-philes state that they hear
pre-amp noise from almost all lesser-expense equipment.


Generally these recorders are engineered to sound best with their
built-in microphones. I can say that for sure about the Zoom H2. With
an external mic, you have to push the gain up so far that you get a
rather poor signal-to-noise ratio when using the mic input. This is
consistent with what Brad Linder talks about in his report.

However, with the built-in mics, its performance is better than one
can expect for the money. As to whether it will be good enough for
a "low budget" production, well, low budget shouldn't automatically
mean poor quality. If you're going to use an external mic, which I
assume you are since you're talking pseudo fishpole, use a preamp
with it, even an inexpensive mixer, and connect it to the recorder's
line input. That's doing "low budget" right.




--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me he
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)
  #12   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,744
Default Zoom 4H digital recorder

nebulax wrote:
I found the controls on the H4 to be a real pain to use (lots of
scrolling thru hard to see menus), but it looks like the H4n improves
on that, and just about everything else.


Scrolling through menus is a way of life with these things, but once
you get it set up for a project, you don't have to change very much,
very often. The thing I liked least about the H4 was that the buttons
just didn't feel very good. The four-way rocker switch that's the
primary navigation control feels sloppy, and so do the pushbuttons.
The H4n borrows the membrane switches from the H2 and improves
the display by making it larger and in color. I had the H4 that was
floating around the Pro Audio Review staff for a couple of months
and the buttons were all quite loose by then, plus the battery cover
needed to be taped closed.

My advice to anyone considering getting an H4 is either to get an
H2 or study out the H4n, unless there's a compelling reason to get
the H4 because of, for instance, the XLR mic inputs. But be aware
that they're not all you might expect them to be. Better to get an
H2 and an outboard preamp.


--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me he
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)
  #13   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Keith. Keith. is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 77
Default Zoom 4H digital recorder


"henrytj" wrote in message
...
I have been helping on some no-budget movie projects. Although, like
everyone else, I would love to do camera, DP, ect. But the audio seems
rather open. Some of the productions that I have helped with use the
on camera mic. So I have gotten together with some friends and we have
put together a kit (shotgut mic, painter pole converted to a boom
pole, a lavaliere mic. I am considering getting a Zoom H4 to add to
the kit for recording when I can't be cabled to the camera (like in a
shot with a moving camera.) Yes, I read that the H4, and other under
$1000 recorders have noise problems, but still this must be better
that using the on camera mic. Also the H4 looks to be on clearance
sale ($219 at B&H) as the next model seems to be out (H4N).

Anyway, anyone have experience using the Zoom H4 for low budget movie
work that they would like to provide?

Thank you,
Henry


The pre-amp is noisy on the H4 but if you can supply a regulated 9v or strap
a battery pack to the input it does help.

Be very careful of wind noise,it is extraordinarly sensitive.I did not like
the foam and made my own wind socks out of remnant teddy bear fur.

The controls are a bit off a fiddle but you do get used to them and if you
are careful (not pass it around too often) I guess it will last.

"I guess" because I recently sold mine after 3yrs of use. It was still
working well,had not fallen apart, but there are better units available now.

Keith.


  #14   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
[email protected] 0junk4me@bellsouth.net is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,027
Default Zoom 4H digital recorder


Mike Rivers writes:

a "low budget" production, well, low budget shouldn't automatically
mean poor quality. If you're going to use an external mic, which I
assume you are since you're talking pseudo fishpole, use a preamp
with it, even an inexpensive mixer, and connect it to the recorder's
line input. That's doing "low budget" right.

I"m with MIke here. dO it right, and while you're doing it
right, lose the painter's pole and get your boom op the
proper tool to work with. IF you're asking folks to do it
for the experience of doing it at least provide them the
proper equipment to learn how to actually do it. bOoming
takes skill and a person might find they actually enjoy it
if you give them the proper tool to work with.
IT's a tough gig and can't be done well by a slacker. Make
the job easier and show the person you expect to do it a bit
of respect as well. tHey'll thank you. Might even say they
had fun learning how to do something and come back tomorrow,
or next time you have a day to shoot.




Richard webb,
replace anything before at with elspider


  #15   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
henrytj henrytj is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Zoom 4H digital recorder

I"m with MIke here. *dO it right, and while you're doing it
right, lose the painter's pole and get your boom op the
proper tool to work with. *IF you're asking folks to do it
for *the experience of doing it at least provide them the
proper equipment to learn how to actually do it. *bOoming
takes skill and a person might find they actually enjoy it
if you give them the proper tool to work with.
IT's a tough gig and can't be done well by a slacker. *Make
the job easier and show the person you expect to do it a bit
of respect as well. *tHey'll thank you. *Might even say they
had fun learning how to do something and come back tomorrow,
or next time you have a day to shoot.

Richard webb,
replace anything before at with elspider


Yes, having the ideal tool is great, but not always affordable. After
moving home to be the caregiver for my elderly mother I ran my savings
down to almost zero. I took some film production courses 30 years ago
back in college and I want to do something with that before I shuffle
off this mortal realm myself. So if I can use a $10 painter's pole,
instead of a $200 pro item, well then that's what I'll do. Of course,
if you want to throw some expensive pro stuff my way then I will be
happy to catch it and make use of it. :-).

Henry



  #16   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
nebulax nebulax is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 263
Default Zoom 4H digital recorder

Yes, having the ideal tool is great, but not always affordable. After
moving home to be the caregiver for my elderly mother I ran my savings
down to almost zero. I took some film production courses 30 years ago
back in college and I want to do something with that before I shuffle
off this mortal realm myself. So if I can use a $10 painter's pole,
instead of a $200 pro item, well then that's what I'll do. Of course,
if you want to throw some expensive pro stuff my way then I will be
happy to catch it and make use of it. :-).

Henry



I don't know if this would be more or less the same as the painter's
pole you're using, but I once made a boom out of a light bulb changing
pole from Home Depot -

Bayco 16 Ft. Aluminum Telescopic Pole with 3 Sections
Model LBC-1600M
$26.79/Each

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...ctId=100088453

-Neb
Reply
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Zoom H4N portable digital recorder [email protected] Pro Audio 3 January 13th 09 04:54 AM
Portable recorder Zoom H2 vs. Olympus ds-40 vlmarcor[_2_] Pro Audio 1 January 29th 08 05:08 AM
Zoom H4 digital recorder? MarcoM Pro Audio 20 April 5th 07 08:08 PM
Zoom H-4 recorder? [email protected] Pro Audio 4 October 12th 06 01:49 AM
FA: ZOOM MRS-1608CD Digital Multi-track Hard Disk Recorder It's All For Sale Pro Audio 0 April 29th 06 06:06 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:10 AM.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AudioBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Audio and hi-fi"