[hskiray]

Hello,

I wonder, if there is no a sound recordist, how the audio recording
levels are adjusted by a cameraman during a EFP shooting. Because I
watch on the TV that some TV program like news, I see only a cameraman
and a speaker wih a microphone at the outside shootings. So, the audio
recording levels are manual or automatic? If it is automatic, it would
be a problem for the condenser microphones?

Thanks... Selcuk.

[Mike Rivers]

On 10/26/2010 4:33 AM, hskiray wrote:

I wonder, if there is no a sound recordist, how the audio recording
levels are adjusted by a cameraman during a EFP shooting. Because I
watch on the TV that some TV program like news, I see only a cameraman
and a speaker wih a microphone at the outside shootings.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. There's
often an audio technician and a lighting technician, and a
makeup technician, and so on.

So, the audio recording levels are manual or automatic?

Nearly all portable video cameras, from the $30 junkers to
the full out pro cameras have some sort of automatic level
control (some work better than others) or at least a limiter
so that loud sounds won't overload the recording.

If it is automatic, it would be a problem for the condenser microphones?

The construction of the microphone has nothing to do with
your question, so, no.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

[Anahata]

On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 01:33:27 -0700, hskiray wrote:

recording levels are manual or automatic? If it is automatic, it would
be a problem for the condenser microphones?

I'm intrigued to know what assumption is being made that leads to the
conclusion that a condenser mic might have a problem with ALC.
:-/

--
Anahata
--/-- http://www.treewind.co.uk
+44 (0)1638 720444

[Mike Rivers]

On 10/26/2010 6:56 AM, anahata wrote:

I'm intrigued to know what assumption is being made that leads to the
conclusion that a condenser mic might have a problem with ALC.

I suspect that it's the perception that a condenser mic is
"very sensitive."

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

[Joe Kotroczo]

On 26/10/2010 12:19, in article ,
"Mike Rivers" wrote:

On 10/26/2010 4:33 AM, hskiray wrote:

I wonder, if there is no a sound recordist, how the audio recording
levels are adjusted by a cameraman during a EFP shooting. Because I
watch on the TV that some TV program like news, I see only a cameraman
and a speaker wih a microphone at the outside shootings.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. There's
often an audio technician and a lighting technician, and a
makeup technician, and so on.

Makeup _artist_. She will not be happy if you her a technician.

--
Joe Kotroczo

[Scott Dorsey]

hskiray wrote:

I wonder, if there is no a sound recordist, how the audio recording
levels are adjusted by a cameraman during a EFP shooting. Because I
watch on the TV that some TV program like news, I see only a cameraman
and a speaker wih a microphone at the outside shootings. So, the audio
recording levels are manual or automatic? If it is automatic, it would
be a problem for the condenser microphones?

It depends on the cameraman. Many will use an automatic gain control.
You can tell this because the noise floor pumps between words as the
interviewer talks. Others will leave it set manually. You can tell
this because they never get it right and it clips.

The cameras do have VU meters available in the finders but the camera
operators never use them. ENG sound is... usually very bad.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

On Oct 26, 4:33*am, hskiray wrote:
Hello,

I wonder, if there is no a sound recordist, how the audio recording
levels are adjusted by a cameraman during a EFP shooting. Because I
watch on the TV that some TV program like news, I see only a cameraman
and a speaker wih a microphone at the outside shootings. So, the audio
recording levels are manual or automatic? If it is automatic, it would
be a problem for the condenser microphones?

Thanks... Selcuk.

If it's taped only, the camera op ("photog") usually sets the level
manually on the camcorder. Very few pros use AGC.

If it's live, the audio goes back to a truck where the level is
carefully set to that peaks fall just under 0. Back at the studio, it
is set again by the main audio operator.

A condenser mic makes no difference to the level.

[Steve Parker[_2_]]

wrote:
On Oct 26, 4:33 am, wrote:
Hello,

I wonder, if there is no a sound recordist, how the audio recording
levels are adjusted by a cameraman during a EFP shooting. Because I
watch on the TV that some TV program like news, I see only a cameraman
and a speaker wih a microphone at the outside shootings. So, the audio
recording levels are manual or automatic? If it is automatic, it would
be a problem for the condenser microphones?

Thanks... Selcuk.

If it's taped only, the camera op ("photog") usually sets the level
manually on the camcorder. Very few pros use AGC.

If it's live, the audio goes back to a truck where the level is
carefully set to that peaks fall just under 0. Back at the studio, it
is set again by the main audio operator.

I started out as a sound recordist in the late 70s. And you are
partially correct. I have made my living as a
videographer/producer/editor for the last 30 years. Often working as a
one-man-band. I don't prefer it, but it is reality. The pros who care,
work their sound as much as their image. Unfortunately, we are in the
minority. About once a month I end up "fixing" the mediocre audio that
comes in from freelancers and such. (I admit these are usually newbies--
but the powers that be always take the lowest bid.)

Steven Parker
Video Production Specialist
ITCS/ACES
67A Mumford Hall, MC-710
University of Illinois
Urbana, IL 61801

"I absolutely refuse to be anonymous.
Don't use handles. Use your real name.
Have the conviction to identify your ideas."

[hank alrich]

Mike Rivers wrote:

On 10/26/2010 6:56 AM, anahata wrote:

I'm intrigued to know what assumption is being made that leads to the
conclusion that a condenser mic might have a problem with ALC.

I suspect that it's the perception that a condenser mic is
"very sensitive."

You have to be careful what you say around them.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.html
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShai...withDougHarman

[John Bennett[_3_]]

On Tue 26 Oct 2010, Steve Parker wrote:
wrote:
On Oct 26, 4:33 am, wrote:

I started out as a sound recordist in the late 70s. And you are
partially correct. I have made my living as a
videographer/producer/editor for the last 30 years. Often working as
a one-man-band. I don't prefer it, but it is reality. The pros who
care, work their sound as much as their image. Unfortunately, we are
in the minority.

As a (fortunately) retired cameraman in the UK I can't really disagree
with what you say in principle. However when the powers that be took our
camera assistant, sound man and electrician from us the job became IMO
unbearable and impossible for a "professional" to do properly as a "one
man band"!

My job as a "cameraman" was to concentrate on getting the best
pictures, not having to worry about sound and lighting as well, which
was IMO always done better by a professional sound man and electrician!

A professional "cameraman"'s instinct is always to think first about the
pictures he is getting. I tried hard at first to try and ride sound
levels but pictures were suffering so in the end I found got better
results using "auto" levels. I hated it all so much I got out of the
business.

About once a month I end up "fixing" the mediocre
audio that comes in from freelancers and such. (I admit these are
usually newbies-- but the powers that be always take the lowest bid.)

No surprise there!

--
John Bennett johndotbennettatsmartemaildotcodotuk

[Scott Dorsey]

John Bennett wrote:

As a (fortunately) retired cameraman in the UK I can't really disagree
with what you say in principle. However when the powers that be took our
camera assistant, sound man and electrician from us the job became IMO
unbearable and impossible for a "professional" to do properly as a "one
man band"!

In the US, the newsgathering folks never had a proper crew in the first
place... it started out as a guy with a spring-wound camera going out
and shooting silent film that someone in the studio would narrate, and
then graduated up to a guy lugging and Auricon or later a CP-16 and
maybe an announcer tagging along to make comments on camera.

So the current miserable state of affairs was never really any better
here.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[John Bennett[_3_]]

On Tue 26 Oct 2010, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
John Bennett wrote:
As a (fortunately) retired cameraman in the UK I can't really
disagree with what you say in principle. However when the powers
that be took our camera assistant, sound man and electrician from
us the job became IMO unbearable and impossible for a
"professional" to do properly as a "one man band"!

In the US, the newsgathering folks never had a proper crew in the
first place... it started out as a guy with a spring-wound camera
going out and shooting silent film that someone in the studio would
narrate, and then graduated up to a guy lugging and Auricon or later
a CP-16 and maybe an announcer tagging along to make comments on
camera.

That's interesting. We had 2 levels of news crew in the film days. The
"mute" cameraman who just shot literally that on his own (with a
"Scoopic" camera or worse) and the full "news crew" that was camera,
sound, lighting, reporter and often a camera assistant, shooting on 16
mm reversal commag that was rushed back to the studio be be processed
and edited for the 6 o'clock news! Voice over commentaries were always
done live in the studio.

When we went to ENG we lost the camera assistant and the lighting
electrician was only sent out when needed. Later on the awful "one man
band" system was introduced and started creeping outside news shoots!

So the current miserable state of affairs was never really any better
here. --scott

How sad! Most regional TV company lighting cameramen (and sound mixers)
started out on their careers working on the "news". It was a good
discipline and there was a fair amount of creative discretion allowed
(and time to do the job properly). Oh and there was a good training
system as well - Happy days!

Cheers John


--
John Bennett johndotbennettatsmartemaildotcodotuk

[Bill Graham]

"hank alrich" wrote in message
...
Mike Rivers wrote:

On 10/26/2010 6:56 AM, anahata wrote:

I'm intrigued to know what assumption is being made that leads to the
conclusion that a condenser mic might have a problem with ALC.

I suspect that it's the perception that a condenser mic is
"very sensitive."

You have to be careful what you say around them.

The thing I like about condenser mikes is that they don't pick up much noise
in their cabling, like dynamics do. The only thing I hear when I use them is
the audio I put into them, and no squeaks, groans and pops from people
stepping on, and brushing against, the cables. Of course, the PIA about them
is the 48 VDC power supply that you have to use to get them to work, but
this might be the reason why they are so noise free, too........

[Scott Dorsey]

Bill Graham wrote:

The thing I like about condenser mikes is that they don't pick up much noise
in their cabling, like dynamics do. The only thing I hear when I use them is
the audio I put into them, and no squeaks, groans and pops from people
stepping on, and brushing against, the cables. Of course, the PIA about them
is the 48 VDC power supply that you have to use to get them to work, but
this might be the reason why they are so noise free, too........

You should try a better quality dynamic. RE-50 is about as free from
handling noise as it gets....
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

anahata wrote:

On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 01:33:27 -0700, hskiray wrote:

recording levels are manual or automatic? If it is automatic, it
would be a problem for the condenser microphones?

I'm intrigued to know what assumption is being made that leads to the
conclusion that a condenser mic might have a problem with ALC.

:-/

Some ALC's are broken by design because of either too low a limiting
treshold or a variable release that appears to get shorter the stronger the
signal is or just always has too short a release time. This is very strange,
since Sony made a picture-perfect unobtrusive ALC for their 510 tape
recorder, one you really could use for music as well as for box and that
didn't cause the applause to go yappetiyap.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Tony[_11_]]

On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 14:30:13 +0100, "Peter Larsen" wrote:

anahata wrote:

On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 01:33:27 -0700, hskiray wrote:

recording levels are manual or automatic? If it is automatic, it
would be a problem for the condenser microphones?

I'm intrigued to know what assumption is being made that leads to the
conclusion that a condenser mic might have a problem with ALC.

:-/

Some ALC's are broken by design because of either too low a limiting
treshold or a variable release that appears to get shorter the stronger the
signal is or just always has too short a release time. This is very strange,
since Sony made a picture-perfect unobtrusive ALC for their 510 tape
recorder, one you really could use for music as well as for box and that
didn't cause the applause to go yappetiyap.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

As I understand it some of the most musical compressors have a release that shortens with
the duration of the overload - not what you were criticizing above, but it does suggest
that clinical is not necessarily best.

Cheers
Tony