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#1
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"Best" SQ subs?
I need a subwoofer to compliment/complete my sound system. I'm not into DB drag
competition or anything of the sort, I'm *only* interested in getting the best SQ possible for my money. I'm extremely anal about sound quality, and I want something that can go loud an LOW, down to 20Hz or below so I know the sub can handle anything thrown at it in terms of regular music. But it's got to sound great. I'd prefer a 12 inch or smaller sub for ease of installation, but if going up to a 15+ inch driver is neccesary, so be it. I'm looking for reccomendations, because the only thing that looks to meet my criteria, at least on paper, is Pioneer's TS-W12PRS series subwoofer (which is an SQ sub, as opposed to Pioneer's new SPL line of subs), it's good down to 15Hz! I've heard that Phoenix Gold's Titanium Elite 12 inch sub is good, but I can't find any specs for it. Please help me here! |
#2
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"Best" SQ subs?
It's all about the enclosure and the size of the amplifier driving it.
"Steve Grauman" wrote in message ... I need a subwoofer to compliment/complete my sound system. I'm not into DB drag competition or anything of the sort, I'm *only* interested in getting the best SQ possible for my money. I'm extremely anal about sound quality, and I want something that can go loud an LOW, down to 20Hz or below so I know the sub can handle anything thrown at it in terms of regular music. But it's got to sound great. I'd prefer a 12 inch or smaller sub for ease of installation, but if going up to a 15+ inch driver is neccesary, so be it. I'm looking for reccomendations, because the only thing that looks to meet my criteria, at least on paper, is Pioneer's TS-W12PRS series subwoofer (which is an SQ sub, as opposed to Pioneer's new SPL line of subs), it's good down to 15Hz! I've heard that Phoenix Gold's Titanium Elite 12 inch sub is good, but I can't find any specs for it. Please help me here! |
#3
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"Best" SQ subs?
IMHO those pioneers are very good for the $$$, good TS params for low
resonance. Not sure what your budget is, but check the adire shiva or DPL12, although I think both are considerably more $$$ than the pioneer. Dayton titanic series are also great IMHO. Garrett Steve Grauman wrote: I need a subwoofer to compliment/complete my sound system. I'm not into DB drag competition or anything of the sort, I'm *only* interested in getting the best SQ possible for my money. I'm extremely anal about sound quality, and I want something that can go loud an LOW, down to 20Hz or below so I know the sub can handle anything thrown at it in terms of regular music. But it's got to sound great. I'd prefer a 12 inch or smaller sub for ease of installation, but if going up to a 15+ inch driver is neccesary, so be it. I'm looking for reccomendations, because the only thing that looks to meet my criteria, at least on paper, is Pioneer's TS-W12PRS series subwoofer (which is an SQ sub, as opposed to Pioneer's new SPL line of subs), it's good down to 15Hz! I've heard that Phoenix Gold's Titanium Elite 12 inch sub is good, but I can't find any specs for it. Please help me here! |
#4
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"Best" SQ subs?
I haven't found anything yet that can touch the Image Dynamics IDQ12.
"Steve Grauman" wrote in message ... I need a subwoofer to compliment/complete my sound system. I'm not into DB drag competition or anything of the sort, I'm *only* interested in getting the best SQ possible for my money. I'm extremely anal about sound quality, and I want something that can go loud an LOW, down to 20Hz or below so I know the sub can handle anything thrown at it in terms of regular music. But it's got to sound great. I'd prefer a 12 inch or smaller sub for ease of installation, but if going up to a 15+ inch driver is neccesary, so be it. I'm looking for reccomendations, because the only thing that looks to meet my criteria, at least on paper, is Pioneer's TS-W12PRS series subwoofer (which is an SQ sub, as opposed to Pioneer's new SPL line of subs), it's good down to 15Hz! I've heard that Phoenix Gold's Titanium Elite 12 inch sub is good, but I can't find any specs for it. Please help me here! |
#5
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"Best" SQ subs?
Not sure what your budget is, but check the adire shiva or DPL12,
although I think both are considerably more $$$ than the pioneer. Dayton titanic series are also great IMHO. Aren't those all SPL subs? And where do Elemental and Treo fall in? |
#6
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"Best" SQ subs?
I have to agree with Mark. I'd choose a good sub, but don't forget that the
install is paramount. I just did two Soundstream EXACT 10s in an aperiodic enclosure and the 20Hz response is outstanding. The same woofers in a different box would yield different results. I'm sure many people don't consider the EXACT subs the "best", but in my particular install I'd put them up against just about anything for SQ output. Tony -- What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or, that he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we wouldn't have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact "Pug Fugley" wrote in message hlink.net... I haven't found anything yet that can touch the Image Dynamics IDQ12. "Steve Grauman" wrote in message ... I need a subwoofer to compliment/complete my sound system. I'm not into DB drag competition or anything of the sort, I'm *only* interested in getting the best SQ possible for my money. I'm extremely anal about sound quality, and I want something that can go loud an LOW, down to 20Hz or below so I know the sub can handle anything thrown at it in terms of regular music. But it's got to sound great. I'd prefer a 12 inch or smaller sub for ease of installation, but if going up to a 15+ inch driver is neccesary, so be it. I'm looking for reccomendations, because the only thing that looks to meet my criteria, at least on paper, is Pioneer's TS-W12PRS series subwoofer (which is an SQ sub, as opposed to Pioneer's new SPL line of subs), it's good down to 15Hz! I've heard that Phoenix Gold's Titanium Elite 12 inch sub is good, but I can't find any specs for it. Please help me here! |
#7
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"Best" SQ subs?
I have to agree with Mark. I'd choose a good sub, but don't forget that
the install is paramount. I just did two Soundstream EXACT 10s in an aperiodic enclosure and the 20Hz response is outstanding. Good job by the way. Looks good. The same woofers in a different box would yield different results. I'm sure many people don't consider the EXACT subs the "best", but in my particular install I'd put them up against just about anything for SQ output. In my experience, you can't do it without tradeoffs, and almost any sub will do. Some on here claim that the difference between woofers is negligible, as long as they can handle enough power and are put in the right enclosure to achieve the desired tuning and efficiency. I tend to agree with that assertion. It's very easy to compensate for most TS params by modifications of an enclosure. I think Steve is putting a little too much weight into the numbers (as he commonly does ) and the notion that some subs are strictly for "SQ purposes" and others for SPL. |
#8
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"Best" SQ subs?
Yes they do have pretty large Xmax stroke (=more dbs), but their ts
params and light cone materials make for some great SQ subs as well. Ive never heard an ED or Treo first hand, so I really cant comment, but have a low/loud reputation as well. Garrett Steve Grauman wrote: Not sure what your budget is, but check the adire shiva or DPL12, although I think both are considerably more $$$ than the pioneer. Dayton titanic series are also great IMHO. Aren't those all SPL subs? And where do Elemental and Treo fall in? |
#9
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"Best" SQ subs?
One vote for a Velodyne - wonder if Reed has any more?
Keith Oh - I use a HSU Research ASW 1202. Responds well down to 7 Hz, but the power handling could be better. I'm using an ESX 475^1 and a 1.2 ft^3 sealed enclosure w/ fiberfill. I'm pretty happy with it. Steve Grauman wrote: I need a subwoofer to compliment/complete my sound system. I'm not into DB drag competition or anything of the sort, I'm *only* interested in getting the best SQ possible for my money. I'm extremely anal about sound quality, and I want something that can go loud an LOW, down to 20Hz or below so I know the sub can handle anything thrown at it in terms of regular music. But it's got to sound great. I'd prefer a 12 inch or smaller sub for ease of installation, but if going up to a 15+ inch driver is neccesary, so be it. I'm looking for reccomendations, because the only thing that looks to meet my criteria, at least on paper, is Pioneer's TS-W12PRS series subwoofer (which is an SQ sub, as opposed to Pioneer's new SPL line of subs), it's good down to 15Hz! I've heard that Phoenix Gold's Titanium Elite 12 inch sub is good, but I can't find any specs for it. Please help me here! |
#10
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"Best" SQ subs?
keith wrote in news:0auJb.5988$TB.2482
@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com: Velodyne My Velodyne 10/12 VA series is at least 4 yrs old..and continues to provide me with low resonant pleasure. But I thought that was for Home applications. I have a 96 Explorer 4X4 XLT with Cadence ZX-5's 5 inch components up front. Polk GXR57's for rear fill. I have an Alpine CDA-7892 HU, complimented by an Alpine CHA-S634 CD-Changer. I'm using a Planet Audio TT2150,300 watts when bridged; to power a Pioneer TS-W35C 12 inch sub. With 500 watt peak power handling; 91dB 20Hz-4,000Hz. I'm using a GM-X374 to power the Cadences. Let me just say, it works for me. I'm thoroughly pleased with the sound quality. I practically look for excuses to be in my truck now. The Pioneer for the money..hits loud and hard. The nice thing about having an SUV is that you get all of that low resonance in the cab with you. Its just Thick with bass. Like a heavy fog. You get a low audible Thump from the outside. So my fellow Negros are not sure what I have inside. Keeps em from getting too curious. And that's with the Planet Audio gains set at less than half, with the Alpine bass @0, and the sub setting at 0- as well. I'm 46..and I don't feel as though I need to compete with anyone. I can barely listen to my system above a volume level of 12-13. I would like to be able to hear it when I'm 50. You young kids mind your hearing..you'll miss it once its gone. There is no distortion, or muddying of the bass. I get clear crisp sound, with excellent mid-bass. I'm very happy. I listen to mostly Jazz and Gospel. So the Bass element is quite heavy, and satisfying. If your on a budget, and not too readily ruled by your testosterone, get the Pioneer. jeff |
#11
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"Best" SQ subs?
those pioneers won't go low unless the enclosure and the installation is
spot on...... as a matter of fact, no system sounds worth a damn unless it's installed correctly. but, besides the pioneer's I'd also look at the Image Dynamics IDQ v2 for a sub with great SQ and low frequency extension.... of course... I'm only offering MY opinion on this brand.... you might like the sound and performance of another sub, but installation is 99% of the sound you want, IMHO. FHLH..... then again... if you believe Pencil Necked Geeks like Tom Nutstain.... installation (location) of a sub shouldn't matter.... "Steve Grauman" wrote in message ... I need a subwoofer to compliment/complete my sound system. I'm not into DB drag competition or anything of the sort, I'm *only* interested in getting the best SQ possible for my money. I'm extremely anal about sound quality, and I want something that can go loud an LOW, down to 20Hz or below so I know the sub can handle anything thrown at it in terms of regular music. But it's got to sound great. I'd prefer a 12 inch or smaller sub for ease of installation, but if going up to a 15+ inch driver is neccesary, so be it. I'm looking for reccomendations, because the only thing that looks to meet my criteria, at least on paper, is Pioneer's TS-W12PRS series subwoofer (which is an SQ sub, as opposed to Pioneer's new SPL line of subs), it's good down to 15Hz! I've heard that Phoenix Gold's Titanium Elite 12 inch sub is good, but I can't find any specs for it. Please help me here! |
#12
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"Best" SQ subs?
Mark Zarella wrote:
*Some on here claim that the difference between woofers i negligible, as long as they can handle enough power and are put in the righ enclosure to achieve the desired tuning and efficiency. I tend to agree wit that assertion. It's very easy to compensate for most TS params b modifications of an enclosure. I think Steve is putting a little too much weigh into the numbers (as he commonly does ) and the notion that some sub are strictly for "SQ purposes" and others for SPL. * dissssssagreeeeeee..... "compensating" and changing a box for TS i different from how a sub is manufactured to sound. To say that th differences between woofers is negligible is ludicrous. so I can mak my kicker sound as good as a w7? This would have to be true using th word "negligible." I have heard this argument before... and its usuall from people who make boxes for a living. I tested this theory out wit various combos. The first time I tested this was when an installer tried to convice m that a W0 in his custom box will "blow away" a W3 in a pre-fab. HA! Th result...well, I ended up with my W3 in the pre-fab. Other examples have include making boxes and switching woofers in a HT application The Shiva hit lower than any sub in any box. Back to the W3... eventually made and tried other boxes in an effort to achieve desirabl SQ. But it never happened.. the W3 loves to hit hard... its engineere that way! Even the W7 sounds flabby compared to my Velodyn servo-driven sub... and my new..... IDQ12 !!!! This sub is running less power now.. and I put it in th cheapest POS pre-fab box I could find just for testing purposes. Ca you say cardboard? Whatever the case... the IDQ is an SQ dream. Just a promised by all the wonderful CAF members. In conclusion: the answer is... IDQ12. oh.. and ps. I think humans cannot sense anything below 20hz. I may b wrong - rpgonzale ----------------------------------------------------------------------- CarAudioForum.com - Usenet Gateway w/over one million posts online View this thread: http://www.caraudioforum.com/showthr...threadid=17119 |
#13
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"Best" SQ subs?
*Some on here claim that the difference between woofers is
negligible, as long as they can handle enough power and are put in the right enclosure to achieve the desired tuning and efficiency. I tend to agree with that assertion. It's very easy to compensate for most TS params by modifications of an enclosure. I think Steve is putting a little too much weight into the numbers (as he commonly does ) and the notion that some subs are strictly for "SQ purposes" and others for SPL. * dissssssagreeeeeee..... "compensating" and changing a box for TS is different from how a sub is manufactured to sound. To say that the differences between woofers is negligible is ludicrous. so I can make my kicker sound as good as a w7? It depends. What inherent advantage do you feel a w7 has? Keep in mind my other comments regarding power handling and linear xmax. This would have to be true using the word "negligible." I have heard this argument before... and its usually from people who make boxes for a living. I tested this theory out with various combos. The first time I tested this was when an installer tried to convice me that a W0 in his custom box will "blow away" a W3 in a pre-fab. HA! The result...well, I ended up with my W3 in the pre-fab. Other examples I have include making boxes and switching woofers in a HT application. The Shiva hit lower than any sub in any box. You can easily get any sub to "hit lower" than a Shiva if you had the right box and a sub with the right excursion capabilities. oh.. and ps. I think humans cannot sense anything below 20hz. I may be wrong! "Sense" or hear? |
#14
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"Best" SQ subs?
rpgonzalez wrote:
dissssssagreeeeeee..... "compensating" and changing a box for TS is different from how a sub is manufactured to sound. To say that the differences between woofers is negligible is ludicrous. so I can make my kicker sound as good as a w7? please enlighten us... might you quantify the ways in which a kicker is not as 'good' as a w7? This would have to be true using the word "negligible." I have heard this argument before... and its usually from people who make boxes for a living. I tested this theory out with various combos. The first time I tested this was when an installer tried to convice me that a W0 in his custom box will "blow away" a W3 in a pre-fab. HA! The result...well, I ended up with my W3 in the pre-fab. Other examples I have include making boxes and switching woofers in a HT application. The Shiva hit lower than any sub in any box. Back to the W3... I eventually made and tried other boxes in an effort to achieve desirable SQ. But it never happened.. the W3 loves to hit hard... its engineered that way! Even the W7 sounds flabby compared to my Velodyne servo-driven sub... and my new..... IDQ12 !!!! This sub is running less power now.. and I put it in the cheapest POS pre-fab box I could find just for testing purposes. Can you say cardboard? Whatever the case... the IDQ is an SQ dream. Just as promised by all the wonderful CAF members. are you familiar with the phrase 'anecdotal evidence'? In conclusion: the answer is... IDQ12. isn't he precious? oh.. and ps. I think humans cannot sense anything below 20hz. I may be wrong! -- rpgonzalez ------------------------------------------------------------------------ CarASSioForum.com - Usenet Gateway w/over one million posts online! View this thread: http://www.carASSioforum.com/showthr...hreadid=171195 you may indeed -- sancho this post was intended for usenet, if you are reading this post on a webforum it is because someone has STOLEN it to use as content to draw traffic to his site... please acquire a proper newsreader if you want to access rec.audio.car and rethink your patronage of said site... |
#15
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"Best" SQ subs?
It depends. What inherent advantage do you feel a w7 has? Keep in min
my other comments regarding power handling and linear xmax. The w7 is supposed to have much better SQ than other JL's. Although personally disagree.. I think the whole line of JL audio subs is geare towards more throw and less accuracy. I have witnesses W7's i different enclosures, although the JL character remains the same. And formed this opinion by listening, not formed the opinion then listened I dont know how these guys engineer the differences.. but I have bee able to identify a JL just by getting in a strangers car. You can easily get any sub to "hit lower" than a Shiva if you had th right box and a sub with the right excursion capabilities. wouldnt excursion capabilitiy be a characteristic of the woofer and no the box? "Sense" or hear? sorry, I f*cked that whole part up. I really wanted to go into detai about the "down to 15 Hz" statement, but I was at work and just thre something in... something that Im sorry to say insulted many people' intelligence (probably). Really, I wanted to touch upon the fact tha the sub Steve was referring to that goes down to 15Hz is probably no noticeable in real life. Yes, the bottom line is 15 Hz, but there i also a drop off rate preceeding that 15 Hz. Maybe the sub start dropping off @ 50Hz. Lets say both a 15Hz sub and a 20Hz sub star dropping at 50Hz. By the time you get to the range between 15Hz an 20Hz, the differences should be... negligible. i can eloborate mor maybe, but I have to play ratchet and clank now.. - rpgonzale ----------------------------------------------------------------------- CarAudioForum.com - Usenet Gateway w/over one million posts online View this thread: http://www.caraudioforum.com/showthr...threadid=17119 |
#16
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"Best" SQ subs?
It depends. What inherent advantage do you feel a w7 has? Keep in mind
my other comments regarding power handling and linear xmax. The w7 is supposed to have much better SQ than other JL's. Says the marketing department. Although I personally disagree.. I think the whole line of JL audio subs is geared towards more throw and less accuracy. I don't know about that. I've got a 12w3 that's very "accurate". So what about a sub makes it inaccurate? You can easily get any sub to "hit lower" than a Shiva if you had the right box and a sub with the right excursion capabilities. wouldnt excursion capabilitiy be a characteristic of the woofer and not the box? I never said otherwise. I've said repeatedly in this NG that the chief considerations when buying a sub are power handling and impedance. Excursion can be considered an aspect of power handling. |
#17
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"Best" SQ subs?
holy ****balls QUIT THAT if you want to post here, get a newsreader... or use a service that allows a PROPER quote... do you want to be 'that asshole'? do you want to spam for some forum every time you post? you are helping the 'owner' of the forum you use to ass up the r.a.c. and promote his site at the same time. -- sancho this post was intended for usenet, if you are reading this post on a webforum it is because someone has STOLEN it to use as content to draw traffic to his site... please acquire a proper newsreader if you want to access rec.audio.car and rethink your patronage of said site... rpgonzalez wrote: It depends. What inherent advantage do you feel a w7 has? Keep in mind my other comments regarding power handling and linear xmax. The w7 is supposed to have much better SQ than other JL's. Although I personally disagree.. I think the whole line of JL audio subs is geared towards more throw and less accuracy. I have witnesses W7's in different enclosures, although the JL character remains the same. And I formed this opinion by listening, not formed the opinion then listened. I dont know how these guys engineer the differences.. but I have been able to identify a JL just by getting in a strangers car. You can easily get any sub to "hit lower" than a Shiva if you had the right box and a sub with the right excursion capabilities. wouldnt excursion capabilitiy be a characteristic of the woofer and not the box? "Sense" or hear? sorry, I f*cked that whole part up. I really wanted to go into detail about the "down to 15 Hz" statement, but I was at work and just threw something in... something that Im sorry to say insulted many people's intelligence (probably). Really, I wanted to touch upon the fact that the sub Steve was referring to that goes down to 15Hz is probably not noticeable in real life. Yes, the bottom line is 15 Hz, but there is also a drop off rate preceeding that 15 Hz. Maybe the sub starts dropping off @ 50Hz. Lets say both a 15Hz sub and a 20Hz sub start dropping at 50Hz. By the time you get to the range between 15Hz and 20Hz, the differences should be... negligible. i can eloborate more maybe, but I have to play ratchet and clank now.. -- rpgonzalez ------------------------------------------------------------------------ CarAssioForum.com - Usenet Gateway w/over one million posts online! View this thread: http://www.carassioforum.com/showthr...hreadid=171195 |
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