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  #1   Report Post  
£ Î Z @ R Ð
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

Anyone have a good recommendation for a warm, tube, 2-channel mic preamp for
around four hundred clams?

--
*·.¸_¸.·'¨¨)
¸.·'
(_¸.·' Jonathan

Go to http://www.guestroomproject.com/ to
hear some music from my upcoming solo album,
the Guestroom Project. I play all the instruments.



  #2   Report Post  
Wayne
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?


Anyone have a good recommendation for a warm, tube, 2-channel mic preamp for
around four hundred clams?

--
*·.¸_¸.·'¨¨)
¸.·'
(_¸.·' Jonathan


Used Peavey VMP-2, if you can find one.

--Wayne

-"sounded good to me"-
  #3   Report Post  
£ Î Z @ R Ð
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

Used Peavey VMP-2, if you can find one.

Peavey? I don't like their amps -- is it pretty good? Why used? Do they
not make it anymore?

--
*·.¸_¸.·'¨¨)
¸.·'
(_¸.·' Jonathan

Go to http://www.guestroomproject.com/ to
hear some music from my upcoming solo album,
the Guestroom Project. I play all the instruments.


"Wayne" wrote in message
...

Anyone have a good recommendation for a warm, tube, 2-channel mic preamp

for
around four hundred clams?

--
*·.¸_¸.·'¨¨)
¸.·'
(_¸.·' Jonathan


Used Peavey VMP-2, if you can find one.

--Wayne

-"sounded good to me"-



  #4   Report Post  
Scott Dorsey
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

£ Î Z @ R Ð wrote:
Anyone have a good recommendation for a warm, tube, 2-channel mic preamp for
around four hundred clams?


No. You can't even get the power supply section and the case for that
much. Most of the inexpensive "tube" preamps are cheap solid-state preamps
with cheesy tube-based distortion stages.

Why not get a preamp that sounds good, and not worry about what technology
it's built with?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #5   Report Post  
Scott Dorsey
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

£ Î Z @ R Ð wrote:
Used Peavey VMP-2, if you can find one.


Peavey? I don't like their amps -- is it pretty good? Why used? Do they
not make it anymore?


It's good. It's not made any more. And it isn't under $400. If you can
find them for under $400, I'll take a dozen.

When Peavey does make good gear, they don't promote it well and they don't
seem to know how to sell it. So they wind up discontinuing it, like they
did with the VMP-2. Now the VMP-2 sells for more on the used market than
it ever cost new.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


  #6   Report Post  
£ Î Z @ R Ð
 
Posts: n/a
Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

Why not get a preamp that sounds good, and not worry about what technology
it's built with?


like what?

--
*·.¸_¸.·'¨¨)
¸.·'
(_¸.·' Jonathan

Go to http://www.guestroomproject.com/ to
hear some music from my upcoming solo album,
the Guestroom Project. I play all the instruments.


"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
£ Î Z @ R Ð wrote:
Anyone have a good recommendation for a warm, tube, 2-channel mic preamp

for
around four hundred clams?


No. You can't even get the power supply section and the case for that
much. Most of the inexpensive "tube" preamps are cheap solid-state

preamps
with cheesy tube-based distortion stages.

Why not get a preamp that sounds good, and not worry about what technology
it's built with?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."



  #7   Report Post  
Kurt Albershardt
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

£ Î Z @ R Ð wrote:

Why not get a preamp that sounds good, and not worry about what technology
it's built with?


Make it $475 and you could swing an RNP http://www.fmraudio.com/rnp/


  #8   Report Post  
Scott Dorsey
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

£ Î Z @ R Ð wrote:
Why not get a preamp that sounds good, and not worry about what technology
it's built with?


like what?


Hmm... what is there under $400... there's the old Symetrix 202. There's
the RNP, isn't there?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #9   Report Post  
hank alrich
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

£ Î Z @ R wrote:

Anyone have a good recommendation for a warm, tube, 2-channel mic preamp for
around four hundred clams?


I have a Rolls RP220 with beefed up power supply and better than stock
tubes that I'd sell for $200 and shipping. I'm in northern California.

Google has my comments on it.

--
ha
  #10   Report Post  
Garthrr
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

In article , "£ Î Z @ R Ð"
writes:

Peavey? I don't like their amps -- is it pretty good? Why used? Do they
not make it anymore?


Jonathan,
The Peavey VMP 2 is actually a viable piece of audio gear despite the moniker.
Its one of the few moden low cost tube pres that doesnt use a starved plate
design as the ART and Aphex pieces do.

Garth~


"I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
Ed Cherney


  #11   Report Post  
Powell
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?


"£ Î Z @ R Ð" wrote

Anyone have a good recommendation for a warm, tube,
2-channel mic preamp for around four hundred clams?

Art MPA Gold - www.artroch.com
http://www.zzounds.com/item--ARTMPAGOLD



  #12   Report Post  
Scott Dorsey
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

Powell wrote:

"£ Î Z @ R Ð" wrote

Anyone have a good recommendation for a warm, tube,
2-channel mic preamp for around four hundred clams?


Art MPA Gold - www.artroch.com
http://www.zzounds.com/item--ARTMPAGOLD


No. This is exactly an example of what is wrong with the whole "fake
tube mike pre" thing.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #13   Report Post  
Powell
 
Posts: n/a
Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?


"Scott Dorsey" wrote

Anyone have a good recommendation for a warm, tube,
2-channel mic preamp for around four hundred clams?


Art MPA Gold - www.artroch.com
http://www.zzounds.com/item--ARTMPAGOLD


No. This is exactly an example of what is wrong with the
whole "fake tube mike pre" thing.

How would you know?



  #14   Report Post  
Mondoslug1
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

nospam wrote:

"Scott Dorsey" wrote

Anyone have a good recommendation for a warm, tube,
2-channel mic preamp for around four hundred clams?

Art MPA Gold - www.artroch.com
http://www.zzounds.com/item--ARTMPAGOLD


No. This is exactly an example of what is wrong with the
whole "fake tube mike pre" thing.

How would you know?



oh boy.








some chick singers at:
http://home.comcast.net/~amostagain/sw_mix.mp3
http://home.comcast.net/~amostagain/sw_talk_mix.mp3
http://home.comcast.net/~amostagain/sw_trouble_mix.mp3




  #15   Report Post  
Scott Dorsey
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

Powell wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote

Anyone have a good recommendation for a warm, tube,
2-channel mic preamp for around four hundred clams?

Art MPA Gold - www.artroch.com
http://www.zzounds.com/item--ARTMPAGOLD


No. This is exactly an example of what is wrong with the
whole "fake tube mike pre" thing.


How would you know?


I had one for audition. Same thing as the original Tube MPA inside,
really. IC front end, cheesy tube stage with 50V on the plate. Very
smeary sounding... totally eliminates midrange detail.

With a real tube preamp, the tube stages actually don't have much coloration
and most of the actual coloration is the result of the audio transformers.
If you make a solid state box without any transformers in it and add a
tube stage running in starvation mode, it doesn't sound very much at all
like the real thing.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


  #16   Report Post  
Garthrr
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

In article , "Powell"
writes:

"Scott Dorsey" wrote

No. This is exactly an example of what is wrong with the
whole "fake tube mike pre" thing.



How would you know?


One way would be to listen.

Garth~



"I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
Ed Cherney
  #17   Report Post  
Mike Rivers
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?


In article @ writes:

Used Peavey VMP-2, if you can find one.


Peavey? I don't like their amps --


This isn't an instrument amplifier. Besides, some of their amps are
excellent.

is it pretty good?


Would someone recommend it if it wasn't?

Why used?


Because new it costs more than you wanted to pay

Do they not make it anymore?


No, which means you may not be able to find a used one for the price
you're willing to pay, but you can try. There was some talk of making
it again, which may make the used prices stop rising.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
  #19   Report Post  
Carey Carlan
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

"£ Î Z @ R Ð" wrote in
:

Anyone have a good recommendation for a warm, tube, 2-channel mic
preamp for around four hundred clams?


Call the folks at Tape Op magazine and get their back issue on building
your own tube preamp. I haven't built one, but several here spoke highly
of it. Parts would be well under $400 if you can handle a soldering iron.
  #20   Report Post  
Powell
 
Posts: n/a
Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?


"Scott Dorsey" wrote

Anyone have a good recommendation for a warm, tube,
2-channel mic preamp for around four hundred clams?

Art MPA Gold - www.artroch.com
http://www.zzounds.com/item--ARTMPAGOLD

No. This is exactly an example of what is wrong with the
whole "fake tube mike pre" thing.


How would you know?


I had one for audition. Same thing as the original Tube
MPA inside, really. IC front end, cheesy tube stage with
50V on the plate. Very smeary sounding... totally
eliminates midrange detail.

" I had one for audition"... ok.

I've used the MPA Pro for over a year with Sure KSM 27's
for voice over work only. In that environment I found the
combination to be quite accurate. You can back off on the
tube gain with the low efficiency KSM 27's and still achieve
a satisfying flat frequency response when recorded digitally.

First you wrote "Why not get a preamp that sounds good,
and not worry about what technology it's built with?" Now
you've put in biased qualifier to it "IC front end, cheesy tube
stage with 50V on the plate." And now somehow the
component parts "IC front end" and "cheesy tube stage" make
a difference.

So, which is it "preamp that sounds good" or "not worry
about what technology it's built with" or IS IT the
technology "cheesy tube stage?" All mixed signals to
the consumer (original poster).


With a real tube preamp, the tube stages actually don't have
much coloration and most of the actual coloration is the result
of the audio transformers.

"With a real tube preamp"... what "real" anything? The
discussion is the sub $500 pre-amp price point, BTW.

"coloration"... all manufactured audio equipment has a
sonic signature. Your equating "coloration" to you own
biased preference and stereotype about equipment design,
which is uniquely your own.

Consumer don't have companies like Audio Research,
CJ, VAC (tube examples) or Levinson, Krell, Classe (ss)
to choose from. With few exceptions, the base of electronic
of manufactures building microphone pre-amps produce
shoddy goods (SS/Tube). I think the real question at the
sub $500 price point is how does it sound? The proper
implementation of electronic components is the
manufacture’s constraint not the consumers.

If you make a solid state box without any transformers
in it and add a tube stage running in starvation mode,
it doesn't sound very much at all like the real thing.

Well, that's nice. What are your recomendations on
specific makes and models of mic pre-amps under
$500 price point?












  #22   Report Post  
Scott Dorsey
 
Posts: n/a
Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

Powell wrote:

I've used the MPA Pro for over a year with Sure KSM 27's
for voice over work only. In that environment I found the
combination to be quite accurate. You can back off on the
tube gain with the low efficiency KSM 27's and still achieve
a satisfying flat frequency response when recorded digitally.


Yes, but it still has no midrange detail.

First you wrote "Why not get a preamp that sounds good,
and not worry about what technology it's built with?" Now
you've put in biased qualifier to it "IC front end, cheesy tube
stage with 50V on the plate." And now somehow the
component parts "IC front end" and "cheesy tube stage" make
a difference.


My argument is that the tube stage in there is just so they can put
"tube mike pre" on the box, and not for any real sonic reason. And, in
fact, it does not sound anything like a typical tube preamplifier does.

Typical tube preamps do all sound different, though, because different
stages and different transformers sound different. The Tube MP doesn't
sound like any of the standard designs, though. And it just sounds bad.

So, which is it "preamp that sounds good" or "not worry
about what technology it's built with" or IS IT the
technology "cheesy tube stage?" All mixed signals to
the consumer (original poster).


Get a preamp that sounds good, and do not be blinded by advertising that
says you should buy a preamp that has a tube in it. Listen to things and
compare them.

If you buy something with a tube in it, buy it because it sounds good, not
because it has a tube in it.

With a real tube preamp, the tube stages actually don't have
much coloration and most of the actual coloration is the result
of the audio transformers.

"With a real tube preamp"... what "real" anything? The
discussion is the sub $500 pre-amp price point, BTW.


You won't get a good tube preamp for under $500. The transformers alone
for two channels will cost more than that if you want any degree of quality.
Sorry about that.

All you will get is a cheesy imitation of the real thing. But you CAN get
a good sounding solid state preamp for that price.

"coloration"... all manufactured audio equipment has a
sonic signature. Your equating "coloration" to you own
biased preference and stereotype about equipment design,
which is uniquely your own.


I suggest you listen to a quality preamp, compare it with your ART, and
then you might share my bias as well.

Consumer don't have companies like Audio Research,
CJ, VAC (tube examples) or Levinson, Krell, Classe (ss)
to choose from. With few exceptions, the base of electronic
of manufactures building microphone pre-amps produce
shoddy goods (SS/Tube). I think the real question at the
sub $500 price point is how does it sound? The proper
implementation of electronic components is the
manufacture’s constraint not the consumers.


I would tend to agree, which is why I don't like the ART. It sounds bad.
Once again, I urge you to compare it with something like the inexpensive
RNP, or even with the console preamps on a cheap Mackie 1202 (take the signal
out of the inserts and bypass the rest of the Mackie electronics).

If you make a solid state box without any transformers
in it and add a tube stage running in starvation mode,
it doesn't sound very much at all like the real thing.

Well, that's nice. What are your recomendations on
specific makes and models of mic pre-amps under
$500 price point?


RNP. The old Event EMP-1 isn't so bad, either.

The Bellari is not a very good preamp, but it is a starting point to build
one around.

You might be able to find a used single channel John Hardy preamp in that
range, even, if you look hard. That's about the cheapest preamp you will
find with a transformer input, which is rather important if you are using
dynamic mikes. Something like an SM-57 will sound a lot better into a
transformer than into a resistive load.

Several folks have mentioned the Peavey VMP-2, which at $750 was an absolutely
incredible deal. I don't think you'll find one used for $500, but if you do
you should snap it up.

But even the Mackie console preamps are going to be an improvement over some
of the cheap outboard stuff being made now. And that's really sad.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #23   Report Post  
Glenn Dowdy
 
Posts: n/a
Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?


"Powell" wrote in message
...

"Scott Dorsey" wrote

Anyone have a good recommendation for a warm, tube,
2-channel mic preamp for around four hundred clams?

Art MPA Gold - www.artroch.com
http://www.zzounds.com/item--ARTMPAGOLD


No. This is exactly an example of what is wrong with the
whole "fake tube mike pre" thing.

How would you know?

You're new here, aren't you?

Glenn D.


  #24   Report Post  
normanstrong
 
Posts: n/a
Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?


"£ Î Z @ R Ð" wrote in message
...
Anyone have a good recommendation for a warm, tube, 2-channel mic

preamp for
around four hundred clams?


Yes, I know it's a matter of opinion, but the last place I'd consider
using tubes is a mike preamp, where noise is a principal
consideration. Instead, warm it up in some sort of line level device
where the signal/noise ratio isn't so important.

Norm Strong


  #25   Report Post  
A. & G. Reiswig
 
Posts: n/a
Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

Carey,
Is that the PAIA build, or something else? Got an issue #?

George Reiswig
Song of the River Music

"Carey Carlan" wrote in message
. 203...
"£ Î Z @ R Ð" wrote in
:

Anyone have a good recommendation for a warm, tube, 2-channel mic
preamp for around four hundred clams?


Call the folks at Tape Op magazine and get their back issue on building
your own tube preamp. I haven't built one, but several here spoke highly
of it. Parts would be well under $400 if you can handle a soldering iron.





  #26   Report Post  
hank alrich
 
Posts: n/a
Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

Powell wrote:

"Scott Dorsey" wrote


Anyone have a good recommendation for a warm, tube,
2-channel mic preamp for around four hundred clams?


Art MPA Gold - www.artroch.com
http://www.zzounds.com/item--ARTMPAGOLD


No. This is exactly an example of what is wrong with the
whole "fake tube mike pre" thing.


How would you know?


Is that your head in your ass or are you just hiding a football? If
you're not kidding, then either you can go to Google and find out why
Scott Dorsey would know or you could shut up and not make a complete
fool of yourself. Any other questions?

--
hank alrich * secret__mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"
  #27   Report Post  
Powell
 
Posts: n/a
Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?


"Scott Dorsey" wrote

I've used the MPA Pro for over a year with Sure KSM 27's
for voice over work only. In that environment I found the
combination to be quite accurate. You can back off on the
tube gain with the low efficiency KSM 27's and still achieve
a satisfying flat frequency response when recorded digitally.


Yes, but it still has no midrange detail.

High level "midrange detail"... is not available at three
times the price point base on manufacturing costs to
produce really high level detail. Consumers have
little choice but to comprise in one form or another, in
the low end market.

OTOH, I use a Audio Power conditioner with the MPA
Pro and find the midrange accuracy to be suitable for
critical work.


First you wrote "Why not get a preamp that sounds good,
and not worry about what technology it's built with?" Now
you've put in biased qualifier to it "IC front end, cheesy tube
stage with 50V on the plate." And now somehow the
component parts "IC front end" and "cheesy tube stage" make
a difference.


My argument is that the tube stage in there is just so they
can put "tube mike pre" on the box, and not for any real
sonic reason.

I considered the “tube” aspect, from a marketing point
of view, to be negative reason to purchase. Why do think
being tube is good or bad? Either can be well served
(SS/tube/make good sound) depending on the
preferences of the user and the application.


And, in fact, it does not sound anything like a typical
tube preamplifier does.

I'm not aware of a "typical tube" sound associated with
tubes. If you mean warm sounding, for example, that
can be achieved (distorted) to do so with either
implementation (SS/tube).

If the sound deviates from anything but a flat response
then preference comes into play.


Typical tube preamps do all sound different, though, because different
stages and different transformers sound different. The Tube MP doesn't
sound like any of the standard designs, though. And it just sounds bad.

So, which is it "preamp that sounds good" or "not worry
about what technology it's built with" or IS IT the
technology "cheesy tube stage?" All mixed signals to
the consumer (original poster).


Get a preamp that sounds good, and do not be blinded
by advertising that says you should buy a preamp that
has a tube in it. Listen to things and compare them.

"Listen to things and compare them"... always good
words. But there is little opportunity to audition low
end electronics.


"With a real tube preamp"... what "real" anything? The
discussion is the sub $500 pre-amp price point, BTW.


You won't get a good tube preamp for under $500. The
transformers alone for two channels will cost more than
that if you want any degree of quality.
Sorry about that.

Well, I guess the original poster shouldn’t purchase
anything because it doesn't meet your standards...
your personal preferences.


All you will get is a cheesy imitation of the real thing. But you
CAN get a good sounding solid state preamp for that price.

So you say. But there will be comprises, they are
unavoidable.

Consumer don't have companies like Audio Research,
CJ, VAC (tube examples) or Levinson, Krell, Classe (ss)
to choose from. With few exceptions, the base of electronic
of manufactures building microphone pre-amps produce
shoddy goods (SS/Tube). I think the real question at the
sub $500 price point is how does it sound? The proper
implementation of electronic components is the
manufacture’s constraint not the consumers.


I would tend to agree, which is why I don't like the ART.
It sounds bad.

That's an opinion you get to have.


Once again, I urge you to compare it with something
like the inexpensive RNP, or even with the console
preamps on a cheap Mackie 1202 (take the signal
out of the inserts and bypass the rest of the Mackie
electronics).

"Mackie"... another dog with different fleas.


If you make a solid state box without any transformers
in it and add a tube stage running in starvation mode,
it doesn't sound very much at all like the real thing.

Well, that's nice. What are your recomendations on
specific makes and models of mic pre-amps under
$500 price point?


RNP. The old Event EMP-1 isn't so bad, either.

Are you talking 8380... minimalist design to be sure?


Several folks have mentioned the Peavey VMP-2, which
at $750 was an absolutely incredible deal. I don't think
you'll find one used for $500, but if you do you should
snap it up.

I don't see it on the web site. Has it been discontinued?
http://www.peavey.com/products/



  #28   Report Post  
£ Î Z @ R Ð
 
Posts: n/a
Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?


Yes, I know it's a matter of opinion, but the last place I'd consider
using tubes is a mike preamp, where noise is a principal
consideration. Instead, warm it up in some sort of line level device
where the signal/noise ratio isn't so important.


admittedly I am a newbie, I like tubes in my guitar amps, and so I thought
they'd go well in a mic preamp. I'm not married to the idea.

I am recording with a Yammy AW4416. I am unimpressed with their preamps --
too clinical for my taste. I'd like a good warm preamp to make up for it..


--
*·.¸_¸.·'¨¨)
¸.·'
(_¸.·' Jonathan

Go to http://www.guestroomproject.com/ to
hear some music from my upcoming solo album,
the Guestroom Project. I play all the instruments.


"normanstrong" wrote in message
news:0H_8c.100509$_w.1311926@attbi_s53...

"£ Î Z @ R Ð" wrote in message
...
Anyone have a good recommendation for a warm, tube, 2-channel mic

preamp for
around four hundred clams?


Yes, I know it's a matter of opinion, but the last place I'd consider
using tubes is a mike preamp, where noise is a principal
consideration. Instead, warm it up in some sort of line level device
where the signal/noise ratio isn't so important.

Norm Strong




  #29   Report Post  
Powell
 
Posts: n/a
Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?


"hank alrich" wrote

So, which is it "preamp that sounds good" or "not worry
about what technology it's built with" or IS IT the
technology "cheesy tube stage?" All mixed signals to
the consumer (original poster).


It's nice that you appreciate a sucky preamp for your
voiceovers; that's no reason for anybody seeking a
quality microphone preamplifier to use it.

You don't get it... there are no "quality" mic pre-amps
at the sub $500 level.


Voicingover and music recording may not have much
in common.

Reproduction of the human voice is the most
demanding aspect of audio production/reproduction.
The ear detects the most details and microdynamics
in this frequency range.

What don't they have in common (music/voice)?
Please provide a technically based list of
objections?


"With a real tube preamp"... what "real" anything? The
discussion is the sub $500 pre-amp price point, BTW.


He's talking about a preamp where the tube elements provide the
significant gain, not some cheesdeball setup designed in marketing to
dupe the unaware into thinking what they've bought uses tubes for
amplification.

Quack, quack, quack...


I have no quarrel with anybody wanting to use coloration,
but I take issue with the idea that tubes have some inherent
coloration that is at all represented by the likes of your
sucky preamp.

Please enlighten me then. What empirical experiences
lead you to that conclusion? Have you personally auditioned
the PMA Pro Gold in you setup? Do you have something
to add that someone else didn't tell you (empirical)?







  #30   Report Post  
Stephen Cameron
 
Posts: n/a
Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

"£ Î Z @ R Ð" wrote in message ...


I am recording with a Yammy AW4416. I am unimpressed with their preamps --
too clinical for my taste. I'd like a good warm preamp to make up for it..


I know with say an SM57 into my aw4416, I have to turn
up the guitar amp pretty darn loud just to get a decent level, and I
didn't like the sound much either (going for a metal sound). I had
MUCH better luck at lower volumes with a Marshall MXL 603s, captured a
sound that was much closer to what I actually heard coming from the amp
than I could with the SM57. (All I have is cheap mics. I'm strictly
amateur.) What mics have you tried? (Maybe you don't really need a
new preamp.)

A bit offtopic: Just FYI, in case you don't already know about it,
there is a yahoo groups mailing list for the AW4416 with a whole
bunch of people on it that really know that machine pretty well.

For instance, I vaguely remember seeing a message or two on there
some time back about chaining the mic pres on inputs 1 & 2 together
to get more gain. Something like that. Don't really recall the details
though.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AW4416/

-- steve


  #31   Report Post  
Powell
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?


"Glenn Dowdy" wrote

How would you know?

You're new here, aren't you?

I’ve posted a few times on r.a.o over the years. We have
a different accent in our conversations over there .



  #32   Report Post  
Twist Turner
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

Tubes can be a good thing, but you can't even get a decent single
channel tube pre at your price level let alone a pair.



Twist Turner
http://tinyurl.com/ul70

  #33   Report Post  
hank alrich
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

Powell wrote:

High level "midrange detail"... is not available at three
times the price point base on manufacturing costs to
produce really high level detail. Consumers have
little choice but to comprise in one form or another, in
the low end market.


Have you used an FMR RNP?

OTOH, I use a Audio Power conditioner with the MPA
Pro and find the midrange accuracy to be suitable for
critical work.


Critical is as critical does; there's a man posts here who considers his
GML pre apt for voiceover work. It's also apt for just about any other
"high level" music recording application. I am uncertain why you think
detail is improved by the power conditioner unless your source AC is
pretty screwed up.

If the sound deviates from anything but a flat response
then preference comes into play.


I recently enjoyed a casual comparison of four truly excellent preamps
(Gordon Model 3, Grace Lunatec V. 3, Great River MP2-MH and Millennia
Media HV-3D), all with admirable linearity to 100 KHz or well beyond,
all with admirable phase coherence and extremely low noise floors
bumping theoretical minimum, and they all sounded different. _Flat
response_ is a single aspect of performance and not necessarily
indicative of any unit's sound.

--
ha
  #34   Report Post  
hank alrich
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

£ Î Z @ R wrote:

admittedly I am a newbie, I like tubes in my guitar amps, and so I thought
they'd go well in a mic preamp. I'm not married to the idea.


I am recording with a Yammy AW4416. I am unimpressed with their preamps --
too clinical for my taste. I'd like a good warm preamp to make up for it..


You really do want to audition an FMR RNP. I'd go so far as to say just
get it and learn from using it. It will take excellent care of you, and
it's also a good instrument DI.

--
ha
  #36   Report Post  
Garthrr
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

In article , "Powell"
writes:

High level "midrange detail"... is not available at three
times the price point base on manufacturing costs to
produce really high level detail. Consumers have
little choice but to comprise in one form or another, in
the low end market.


Not true. The FMR RNP is quite a nice piece for about $500.

Garth~


"I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
Ed Cherney
  #37   Report Post  
Richard Crowley
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?


"Powell" wrote in message
...

"Glenn Dowdy" wrote

How would you know?

You're new here, aren't you?

I've posted a few times on r.a.o over the years. We have
a different accent in our conversations over there .


That explains a lot. Spending more time talking than listening.


  #38   Report Post  
Mike Rivers
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?


In article writes:

Is there anything that could be done inexpensively to improve the Pro MPA?


Remove the tube and connect the output directly to the solid state
preamp circuit?

Honestly, if you're looking to buy something with the intent of
modifying it, you might as well either build from scratch (maybe buy
something for the box and power supply) or look for something that
doesn't need to be modified.

On the other hand, maybe you should just buy an ART Pro MPA and use it
for a little while. [Reading further I see you already have one. Well,
maybe this will be of general interest to others then] Most reputable
dealers will allow you to return it if you don't like it. The problem,
though, and the questions you're asking tip me off to this (forgive me
if I'm off base here) is that you may not know whether you like it or
not, and are concerned that someone ELSE might not like it. This is
part of the learning process, and it's OK to make a mistake now and
then.

I have one laying around and it hardly ever gets used except for
scratch vocals etc.


Oh, you already have one. See the first paragraph. But really, I'd
suggest that if you really find it mostly useless, get your money out
of it rather than trying to modify it, or consider the money sunk, gut
it, and build something else inside the case. You might want to look
at Monte McGuire's three-issue mic preamp construction article that
was in Recording a few years ago. He'd be happy to hear that someone
has actually built one, I'll bet.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
  #39   Report Post  
Powell
 
Posts: n/a
Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?


"hank alrich" wrote

High level "midrange detail"... is not available at three
times the price point base on manufacturing costs to
produce really high level detail. Consumers have
little choice but to comprise in one form or another, in
the low end market.


Have you used an FMR RNP?

No, but I went to the web site and read about the product.
The manufacture states this about the RNP, "WHAT
SUCKS Now I will violate a very important marketing rule
by telling you what I think sucks about the RNP. Why?
Because nothing is perfect and compromises always
have to be made."... I have claimed nothing different.

After reading the product information it doesn’t appear
to be a good candidate for studio use. If used for this
purpose one would need a roll of duck tape to hold it
down in an equipment rack. Weak power supply. It also
only has three LED lights to represent the entire audio
spectrum, that not very useful. The incomplete
specification sheet is particularly troubling, too.


OTOH, I use a Audio Power conditioner with the MPA
Pro and find the midrange accuracy to be suitable for
critical work.


Critical is as critical does; there's a man posts here who
considers his GML pre apt for voiceover work. It's also apt
for just about any other "high level" music recording
application. I am uncertain why you think detail is improved
by the power conditioner unless your source AC is
pretty screwed up.

Power supplies appear to be weak links on most low end
electronics... even on some high end stereo audio products,
too. It’s an easy place to cut manufacturing expenses.

All A/C current is dirty. The only real question is how much and
how audible is it. Running the mic pre-amp and computer, while
recording, through a power conditioner I can see that the
noise floor drops 4-7 dB on the meter while idling. The audio
effect is a blacker/quieter background.


If the sound deviates from anything but a flat response
then preference comes into play.


I recently enjoyed a casual comparison of four truly excellent preamps
(Gordon Model 3, Grace Lunatec V. 3, Great River MP2-MH and Millennia
Media HV-3D), all with admirable linearity to 100 KHz or well beyond,
all with admirable phase coherence and extremely low noise floors
bumping theoretical minimum, and they all sounded different.

If they are not identical sounding then they must have audio
spectrum differences.

"extremely low noise floors bumping theoretical minimum"... not
likely.

_Flat response_ is a single aspect of performance and not
necessarily indicative of any unit's sound.

Well, yes and no. If the output of the unit was truly flat,
however you wish to define that, it would have not have
any apparent sound quality/signature. It would truly be
“straight wire with gain.” None of the sited manufactures
are working the on bleeding edge of technology. In a
similar technology like phono pre-amps, for example, one
has to invest $2-10 K per channel to reach that level.
There is no market place in the sound recording industry
for that kind of assault. Some have said that it’s the
recording industry who is holding up high end media
like types like DVD-A & SACD from becoming more
popular because of all this foot dragging.







  #40   Report Post  
Kurt Albershardt
 
Posts: n/a
Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

Powell wrote:

You don't get it... there are no "quality" mic pre-amps
at the sub $500 level.


(a) he definitelty gets it and (b) have you ever used an FMR RNP?


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