[west[_3_]]

I would like some practical advice on how to clean and care for my LPs. A
colleague told me he just uses soap and water. I don't think that this is a
good idea especially because the water in Florida is very hard. I owned a
VPI 16 that bit the dust a few years ago. Looking at some of the prices for
auto cleaning machines and the various specialized fluids seem outlandish.
Yet some of my records are (to me) irreplaceable. How do you care for your
vinyl? Thanks in advance.

Cordially,
west

[Peter Wieck]

On May 6, 7:11 pm, "west" wrote:
I would like some practical advice on how to clean and care for my LPs. A
colleague told me he just uses soap and water. I don't think that this is a
good idea especially because the water in Florida is very hard. I owned a
VPI 16 that bit the dust a few years ago. Looking at some of the prices for
auto cleaning machines and the various specialized fluids seem outlandish.
Yet some of my records are (to me) irreplaceable. How do you care for your
vinyl? Thanks in advance.

Cordially,
west

Oh, for krissakes....

There is so damned much good information out there on the care and
feeding of vinyl that for you to ask such a question without doing the
primary research yourself is irresponsible, lazy and just plain
stupid.

For one claiming to have daughters 'who went on to West
Point' (dubious at best.... especially the daughter part... making you
a parent... YIKES!), that would require that you are old enough to be
of the vinyl generation at least towards its end. And, at the end of
the vinyl generation, its care and feeding was pretty sophisticated.
Meaning you are being disingenuous at best.

So, give it a rest and do some real work for once. Start with the
obvious. Start with the most basic implications of the species.

a) keep the records clean. Scrupulously clean.
b) do not play them more than once in 24 hours. Can you guess why? I
doubt it.
c) keep them free of static to the extent possible.
d) use the proper stylus.
e) make damned sure that the stylus is in good condition.
f) track at the proper force.
g) use the best damned tone-arm you can afford, preferably linear.

After that, there isn't a whole helluvalot more to do about it. And,
for the record, "Young professional" and "daughters went on to West
Point" are mutually exclusive. So, which is it?

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[mueller]

west wrote:
I would like some practical advice on how to clean and care for my LPs. A
colleague told me he just uses soap and water. I don't think that this is a
good idea especially because the water in Florida is very hard. I owned a
VPI 16 that bit the dust a few years ago. Looking at some of the prices for
auto cleaning machines and the various specialized fluids seem outlandish.
Yet some of my records are (to me) irreplaceable. How do you care for your
vinyl? Thanks in advance.

Cordially,
west


Hi West
I've had really good luck with the middle of the road Nitty Gritty
machines, and their fluids. I tried all the hand methods recommened
on line, none worked as well and consistently as the 1.5FI I bought 2
years ago. I tried the home made cleaning fluid ideas, but none worked
as good as the stuff sold by Nitty Gritty.
They go one sale all the time at Music Direct and other on line retailers.
I feel for the price they are well worth it. I've revived some really
noisy LP's after 2 or 3 cleanings
Mike Mueller

[Jon Yaeger]

in article g9u%h.1520$wy2.1358@trnddc03, west at wrote on
5/6/07 8:11 PM:

I would like some practical advice on how to clean and care for my LPs. A
colleague told me he just uses soap and water. I don't think that this is a
good idea especially because the water in Florida is very hard. I owned a
VPI 16 that bit the dust a few years ago. Looking at some of the prices for
auto cleaning machines and the various specialized fluids seem outlandish.
Yet some of my records are (to me) irreplaceable. How do you care for your
vinyl? Thanks in advance.

Cordially,
west




I've had decent luck with the Discwasher product line and the ZeroStat
anti-static gun. Some anti-static devices use radioactive isotopes embedded
in ceramic.

Say, I bet you need someone to come down there and show you how to wipe your
ass, don't you??

Jon

[west[_3_]]

"Jon Yaeger" wrote in message
...
in article g9u%h.1520$wy2.1358@trnddc03, west at wrote on
5/6/07 8:11 PM:

I would like some practical advice on how to clean and care for my LPs.
A
colleague told me he just uses soap and water. I don't think that this
is a
good idea especially because the water in Florida is very hard. I owned
a
VPI 16 that bit the dust a few years ago. Looking at some of the prices
for
auto cleaning machines and the various specialized fluids seem
outlandish.
Yet some of my records are (to me) irreplaceable. How do you care for
your
vinyl? Thanks in advance.

Cordially,
west




I've had decent luck with the Discwasher product line and the ZeroStat
anti-static gun. Some anti-static devices use radioactive isotopes
embedded
in ceramic.

Say, I bet you need someone to come down there and show you how to wipe
your
ass, don't you??

Jon

You wipe? I thought you just patted. No wonder ... I guess I do need
someone. Are you volunteering?

west

[Patrick Turner]

mueller wrote:

west wrote:
I would like some practical advice on how to clean and care for my LPs. A
colleague told me he just uses soap and water. I don't think that this is a
good idea especially because the water in Florida is very hard. I owned a
VPI 16 that bit the dust a few years ago. Looking at some of the prices for
auto cleaning machines and the various specialized fluids seem outlandish.
Yet some of my records are (to me) irreplaceable. How do you care for your
vinyl? Thanks in advance.

Cordially,
west


Hi West
I've had really good luck with the middle of the road Nitty Gritty
machines, and their fluids. I tried all the hand methods recommened
on line, none worked as well and consistently as the 1.5FI I bought 2
years ago. I tried the home made cleaning fluid ideas, but none worked
as good as the stuff sold by Nitty Gritty.
They go one sale all the time at Music Direct and other on line retailers.
I feel for the price they are well worth it. I've revived some really
noisy LP's after 2 or 3 cleanings
Mike Mueller

There is only one way to happily embrace the medium of vinyl, and it
means
keeping the records clean.

A friend has an el cheapo cleaner where the record is clamped in and you
wash the top side
with a special brush and with nitty-gritty or distilled water with 10%
isopropyl alchohol,
and then you turn the record upside down and a vacuum cleaner
working through another brush sucks out the damp muck in the grooves
left after cleaning it.

Records that i wanted to bin because of noise became as defect-free as
the day they were made,
and it convinced me that most noise isn't from scratches or handling,
but from
grunge, muck, spilt wine and chilli con carne and dope ash from 1975
parties
become stuck in the grooves. Then follows the growth of mildews and
other gradual dust building up, and it must all be gently softened,
released,
and scraped and sucked right out
without adding noise or removing sound track.
Once cleaned, vinyl is a true miracle, and a time capsule to the past.

My friends cleaner cost $200, and you turn the record by hand,
and you have to buy a vacuum cleaner to attach; he got a cheap chinese
one,
noisy as hell of course, being chinese, but OK for the job.

To ensure grunge is loosened up, a donut shaped piece of toweling can be
cut
to lay on a record so when damp the water won't dry, but you don't
wet the label.
This can be left all night if need be, the water won't hurt it
but I wouldn't leave any active cleaner fluid on the record for too
long.


Patrick Turner.

[Iain Churches]

"Peter Wieck" wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 6, 7:11 pm, "west" wrote:
I would like some practical advice on how to clean and care for my LPs. A
colleague told me he just uses soap and water. I don't think that this is
a
good idea especially because the water in Florida is very hard. I owned a
VPI 16 that bit the dust a few years ago. Looking at some of the prices
for
auto cleaning machines and the various specialized fluids seem
outlandish.
Yet some of my records are (to me) irreplaceable. How do you care for
your
vinyl? Thanks in advance.

Cordially,
west

Oh, for krissakes....

There is so damned much good information out there on the care and
feeding of vinyl that for you to ask such a question without doing the
primary research yourself is irresponsible, lazy and just plain
stupid.

For one claiming to have daughters 'who went on to West
Point' (dubious at best.... especially the daughter part... making you
a parent... YIKES!), that would require that you are old enough to be
of the vinyl generation at least towards its end. And, at the end of
the vinyl generation, its care and feeding was pretty sophisticated.
Meaning you are being disingenuous at best.

So, give it a rest and do some real work for once. Start with the
obvious. Start with the most basic implications of the species.

a) keep the records clean. Scrupulously clean.
b) do not play them more than once in 24 hours. Can you guess why? I
doubt it.
c) keep them free of static to the extent possible.
d) use the proper stylus.
e) make damned sure that the stylus is in good condition.
f) track at the proper force.
g) use the best damned tone-arm you can afford, preferably linear.

After that, there isn't a whole helluvalot more to do about it. And,
for the record, "Young professional" and "daughters went on to West
Point" are mutually exclusive. So, which is it?

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

Hi West,

Before he has an apoplectic siezure, please ask Peter to step down
from the soapbox, give that loudhailer to the friendly man in the
white coat, sit down in this comfy chair and take a valium. Relax:-)

There is a very good BBC booklet on the subject of vinyl care, and
the way to get best results in transcription when "playing wet" I have
done a very great number of vinyl and shellac transcriptions at a
professional level.

There are several disc cleaning machines on the market. I
use the Moth, but understand that VPI is also good. Following that,
if you want to make a transcription to CD you can mix a wet solution
which will remove about 90% of any remaining snap crackle and pop
coming out of the cereal port.

It makes very good sense to transcribe your irreplaceable vinyl and
shellac to CD (with care you can make a perfect clone) and store the
originals away.

In my experience it is much better to declick manually in a programme
like Audition (formerly Cool Edit Pro) than use the automated functions.

Regards to all
Iain

[Ian Iveson]

west wrote

I would like some practical advice on how to clean and care for my
LPs. A
colleague told me he just uses soap and water. I don't think that
this is a
good idea especially because the water in Florida is very hard. I
owned a
VPI 16 that bit the dust a few years ago. Looking at some of the
prices for
auto cleaning machines and the various specialized fluids seem
outlandish.
Yet some of my records are (to me) irreplaceable. How do you care
for your
vinyl? Thanks in advance.

Stubborn stains can be removed with fine carborundum paste.

Rinse thoroughly in methylene chloride.

Dry in the microwave.

Lubricate with concentrated lime juice.

cordially, Ian

[mueller]

Peter Wieck wrote:
On May 6, 7:11 pm, "west" wrote:

I would like some practical advice on how to clean and care for my LPs. A
colleague told me he just uses soap and water. I don't think that this is a
good idea especially because the water in Florida is very hard. I owned a
VPI 16 that bit the dust a few years ago. Looking at some of the prices for
auto cleaning machines and the various specialized fluids seem outlandish.
Yet some of my records are (to me) irreplaceable. How do you care for your
vinyl? Thanks in advance.

Cordially,
west


Oh, for krissakes....

There is so damned much good information out there on the care and
feeding of vinyl that for you to ask such a question without doing the
primary research yourself is irresponsible, lazy and just plain
stupid.

For one claiming to have daughters 'who went on to West
Point' (dubious at best.... especially the daughter part... making you
a parent... YIKES!), that would require that you are old enough to be
of the vinyl generation at least towards its end. And, at the end of
the vinyl generation, its care and feeding was pretty sophisticated.
Meaning you are being disingenuous at best.

So, give it a rest and do some real work for once. Start with the
obvious. Start with the most basic implications of the species.

a) keep the records clean. Scrupulously clean.
b) do not play them more than once in 24 hours. Can you guess why? I
doubt it.
c) keep them free of static to the extent possible.
d) use the proper stylus.
e) make damned sure that the stylus is in good condition.
f) track at the proper force.
g) use the best damned tone-arm you can afford, preferably linear.

After that, there isn't a whole helluvalot more to do about it. And,
for the record, "Young professional" and "daughters went on to West
Point" are mutually exclusive. So, which is it?

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

Hi Peter
I do not know why I can not play an LP more than once in a 24 hour
period. Could you elaborate please?
Thank you
Mike Mueller

[Peter Wieck]

On May 7, 10:22 pm, mueller wrote:

I do not know why I can not play an LP more than once in a 24 hour
period. Could you elaborate please?

The reason is pretty simple if thought about. The stylus tracks at a
'few grams', which translates to several pounds-per-square-inch on the
vinyl grooves. Part of this translates into vibrations that make the
music, part of this translates into heat which then distorts and
stresses the vinyl. It takes 5-8 hours for the heat and the stress to
fully dissipate depending on the general environment and composition
of the vinyl... and this is a very approximate number. So, the general
rule-of-thumb to protect the vinyl is 24 hours between plays.

At the extreme (repeated close-together playings), the highs are more-
or-less scraped/smoothed over.

Do the math. A typical eliptical stylus is ~2mil x 1mil. Bearing on
the record is ~1/2 the surface area of the stylus. Treating it as a
sphere of diameter 2mil for round figures, the bearing surface is 0.5
x 4pirsquared. So, 4 x 3.1415 x 0.5 = 6.3 square mils (0.0063). At
2grams that = 0.0045 pounds. Comes to ~2.5 psi. It is actually more,
but as a QaD, this is enough. Now, if a 12" lp is turning at 33.33
rpm, with an average groove length/revolution of 3.1415 x 7.5 = ~23.5
ips or ~2 fps, or ~1.4 miles per hour, you start to get an idea of the
issues at hand. (With a 45, the issues remain about the same as the
diameters are much smaller. With a 78, the issues are much more
difficult as the speeds are higher and the tracking forces much
greater. Of course the stylus area is much larger, but the idea is the
same.)

Drag a 2.5 pound flat weight of one-inch surface area across any piece
of vinyl at 1.4mph and it *will* create heat and *possibly* do damage
unless very carefully controlled.

The 24 hour rule reduces the opportunity to cause such damage. But you
would have figured that out if you had thought about it. ;-)

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[mueller]

Peter Wieck wrote:
On May 7, 10:22 pm, mueller wrote:


I do not know why I can not play an LP more than once in a 24 hour
period. Could you elaborate please?


The reason is pretty simple if thought about. The stylus tracks at a
'few grams', which translates to several pounds-per-square-inch on the
vinyl grooves. Part of this translates into vibrations that make the
music, part of this translates into heat which then distorts and
stresses the vinyl. It takes 5-8 hours for the heat and the stress to
fully dissipate depending on the general environment and composition
of the vinyl... and this is a very approximate number. So, the general
rule-of-thumb to protect the vinyl is 24 hours between plays.

At the extreme (repeated close-together playings), the highs are more-
or-less scraped/smoothed over.

Do the math. A typical eliptical stylus is ~2mil x 1mil. Bearing on
the record is ~1/2 the surface area of the stylus. Treating it as a
sphere of diameter 2mil for round figures, the bearing surface is 0.5
x 4pirsquared. So, 4 x 3.1415 x 0.5 = 6.3 square mils (0.0063). At
2grams that = 0.0045 pounds. Comes to ~2.5 psi. It is actually more,
but as a QaD, this is enough. Now, if a 12" lp is turning at 33.33
rpm, with an average groove length/revolution of 3.1415 x 7.5 = ~23.5
ips or ~2 fps, or ~1.4 miles per hour, you start to get an idea of the
issues at hand. (With a 45, the issues remain about the same as the
diameters are much smaller. With a 78, the issues are much more
difficult as the speeds are higher and the tracking forces much
greater. Of course the stylus area is much larger, but the idea is the
same.)

Drag a 2.5 pound flat weight of one-inch surface area across any piece
of vinyl at 1.4mph and it *will* create heat and *possibly* do damage
unless very carefully controlled.

The 24 hour rule reduces the opportunity to cause such damage. But you
would have figured that out if you had thought about it. ;-)

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

Peter
I wanted to hear it from you.
Common sense told me it was a heat issue. And the vinyl needed too cool down
Thanks
Mike Mueller

[Chris Hornbeck]

On 8 May 2007 04:02:13 -0700, Peter Wieck wrote:

Excellent static analysis snipped cause you just read it

Even scarier, the stylus undergoes accelerations reaching
into the thousands of G's, causing dynamic pressures into
the tons per square inch range. Contact temperatures run
700 to 900 F. Yikes!

Styli actually trace a geometry that extends "down" into
the vinyl surface. This element greatly complicates the
"laser reading" turntables, almost as much as the noise
issues.

My only real addition to your comments is to add:
cleanliness, cleanliness, cleanliness. And let them
rest about a decade before recording 'em. Only slightly
kidding.

Much thanks, as always,

Chris Hornbeck

[Ian Iveson]

Peter Wieck wrote

I do not know why I can not play an LP more than once in a 24 hour
period. Could you elaborate please?

The reason is pretty simple if thought about. The stylus tracks at a
'few grams', which translates to several pounds-per-square-inch on
the
vinyl grooves. Part of this translates into vibrations that make the
music, part of this translates into heat which then distorts and
stresses the vinyl. It takes 5-8 hours for the heat and the stress
to
fully dissipate depending on the general environment and composition
of the vinyl... and this is a very approximate number. So, the
general
rule-of-thumb to protect the vinyl is 24 hours between plays.

At the extreme (repeated close-together playings), the highs are
more-
or-less scraped/smoothed over.

Do the math. A typical eliptical stylus is ~2mil x 1mil. Bearing on
the record is ~1/2 the surface area of the stylus. Treating it as a
sphere of diameter 2mil for round figures, the bearing surface is
0.5
x 4pirsquared. So, 4 x 3.1415 x 0.5 = 6.3 square mils (0.0063). At
2grams that = 0.0045 pounds. Comes to ~2.5 psi. It is actually more,
but as a QaD, this is enough. Now, if a 12" lp is turning at 33.33
rpm, with an average groove length/revolution of 3.1415 x 7.5 =
~23.5
ips or ~2 fps, or ~1.4 miles per hour, you start to get an idea of
the
issues at hand. (With a 45, the issues remain about the same as the
diameters are much smaller. With a 78, the issues are much more
difficult as the speeds are higher and the tracking forces much
greater. Of course the stylus area is much larger, but the idea is
the
same.)

Drag a 2.5 pound flat weight of one-inch surface area across any
piece
of vinyl at 1.4mph and it *will* create heat and *possibly* do
damage
unless very carefully controlled.

The 24 hour rule reduces the opportunity to cause such damage. But
you
would have figured that out if you had thought about it. ;-)

I don't quite follow this heat and stress dissipation thing. Surely
the vinyl can't take so long to cool down. Is stress the kind of thing
that dissipates?

Perhaps if you keep the vinyl warm after playing, the plastic
deformation will right itself more quickly?

Maybe an infra-red laser following the stylus would allow more rapid
replay? Problem to avoid preheating the next groove, however.

I don't see how tracking forces are greater for larger-diameter
grooves, either. The linear velocity is greater, so I would expect the
deformation due to the static weight of the arm and cartridge to be
less. Perhaps this is counteracted by an increase in stylus
temperature due to the greater linear velocity though... The forces
due to the signal should depend only on the signal.

Just musing. My only record player was a Dansette. I always reckoned
that the problems of vinyl were not worth the expense of solving.

cheers, Ian

[Peter Wieck]

Ian: Please note the interpolations.

I don't quite follow this heat and stress dissipation thing. Surely
the vinyl can't take so long to cool down. Is stress the kind of thing
that dissipates?

It does dissipate, and in less than 24 hours, obviously. But the "rule
of thumb" is for a reason. More-or-less as follows: When the vinyl is
heated, as with many plastics, it will expand in one direction and
shrink in another. It also work-hardens at the thickest sections and
anneals at the thinnest. These inposed properties will dissipate when
the entire system reaches equilibrium, but that is more than just a
few hours. As Chris noted the G-forces are considerable and the
contact temperatures are as well. Whack a system that is alternately
soft-and-brittle too quickly again and it will fail. Depending on the
composition of the vinyl, the ambient temperatures and several other
conditions, this can be from 5 - 8 hours. Maybe more. Why risk it?

Perhaps if you keep the vinyl warm after playing, the plastic
deformation will right itself more quickly?

The danger there is that the system will permanently anneal. Under
these conditions, the next playing will erase the thinnest /\/\/\/\/\/
\.

[west[_3_]]

"Peter Wieck" wrote in message
ups.com...
Ian: Please note the interpolations.

I don't quite follow this heat and stress dissipation thing. Surely
the vinyl can't take so long to cool down. Is stress the kind of thing
that dissipates?

It does dissipate, and in less than 24 hours, obviously. But the "rule
of thumb" is for a reason. More-or-less as follows: When the vinyl is
heated, as with many plastics, it will expand in one direction and
shrink in another. It also work-hardens at the thickest sections and
anneals at the thinnest. These inposed properties will dissipate when
the entire system reaches equilibrium, but that is more than just a
few hours. As Chris noted the G-forces are considerable and the
contact temperatures are as well. Whack a system that is alternately
soft-and-brittle too quickly again and it will fail. Depending on the
composition of the vinyl, the ambient temperatures and several other
conditions, this can be from 5 - 8 hours. Maybe more. Why risk it?

Perhaps if you keep the vinyl warm after playing, the plastic
deformation will right itself more quickly?

The danger there is that the system will permanently anneal. Under
these conditions, the next playing will erase the thinnest /\/\/\/\/\/
\.

Maybe an infra-red laser following the stylus would allow more rapid
replay? Problem to avoid preheating the next groove, however.

See above.

I don't see how tracking forces are greater for larger-diameter
grooves, either. The linear velocity is greater, so I would expect the
deformation due to the static weight of the arm and cartridge to be
less. Perhaps this is counteracted by an increase in stylus
temperature due to the greater linear velocity though... The forces
due to the signal should depend only on the signal.

Some 78 stylii require 5+ grams of tracking force. And a 15kHz tone
will require that stylus to be whacked back and forth that many times
in a second. So, now one has an ~5 psi weght traveling at ~4 mph...

Lots of heat, lots of friction, and on a substrate that is delicate
enough to be "printed", yet rigid enough to hold the imprint. That
balance is incredibly delicate.... or records would last forever.
Correct?

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

I played an LP section 4 times in a row and immediately placed my sensitive
lips on that section. Felt just like room temperature. ?????

west

[Peter Wieck]

On May 9, 1:04 pm, "west" wrote:
"Peter Wieck" wrote in message

ups.com...





Ian: Please note the interpolations.

I don't quite follow this heat and stress dissipation thing. Surely
the vinyl can't take so long to cool down. Is stress the kind of thing
that dissipates?

It does dissipate, and in less than 24 hours, obviously. But the "rule
of thumb" is for a reason. More-or-less as follows: When the vinyl is
heated, as with many plastics, it will expand in one direction and
shrink in another. It also work-hardens at the thickest sections and
anneals at the thinnest. These inposed properties will dissipate when
the entire system reaches equilibrium, but that is more than just a
few hours. As Chris noted the G-forces are considerable and the
contact temperatures are as well. Whack a system that is alternately
soft-and-brittle too quickly again and it will fail. Depending on the
composition of the vinyl, the ambient temperatures and several other
conditions, this can be from 5 - 8 hours. Maybe more. Why risk it?

Perhaps if you keep the vinyl warm after playing, the plastic
deformation will right itself more quickly?

The danger there is that the system will permanently anneal. Under
these conditions, the next playing will erase the thinnest /\/\/\/\/\/
\.

Maybe an infra-red laser following the stylus would allow more rapid
replay? Problem to avoid preheating the next groove, however.

See above.

I don't see how tracking forces are greater for larger-diameter
grooves, either. The linear velocity is greater, so I would expect the
deformation due to the static weight of the arm and cartridge to be
less. Perhaps this is counteracted by an increase in stylus
temperature due to the greater linear velocity though... The forces
due to the signal should depend only on the signal.

Some 78 stylii require 5+ grams of tracking force. And a 15kHz tone
will require that stylus to be whacked back and forth that many times
in a second. So, now one has an ~5 psi weght traveling at ~4 mph...

Lots of heat, lots of friction, and on a substrate that is delicate
enough to be "printed", yet rigid enough to hold the imprint. That
balance is incredibly delicate.... or records would last forever.
Correct?

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

I played an LP section 4 times in a row and immediately placed my sensitive
lips on that section. Felt just like room temperature. ?????

west- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Two questions: You have lips? If so, which ones?

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[Chris Hornbeck]

On 9 May 2007 07:09:16 -0700, Peter Wieck wrote:

Lots of heat, lots of friction, and on a substrate that is delicate
enough to be "printed", yet rigid enough to hold the imprint. That
balance is incredibly delicate.... or records would last forever.
Correct?

The classic analogy is to bumblebees, at one time "proven"
to be unable to fly.

If modern engineering analysis of phonographs were available
in the early twentieth century, nobody would have bothered
trying. I'd guess that this might be true for a lot of modern
society, so there's both good and bad about it...

Much thanks, as always,

Chris Hornbeck

[Peter Wieck]

On May 10, 12:09 am, Chris Hornbeck
wrote:

The classic analogy is to bumblebees, at one time "proven"
to be unable to fly.

But they can't. They transport by magic. Just as Vinyl "can't" sound
good.

It's all magic. My kind of magic, but magic nonetheless.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[Arny Krueger]

"west" wrote in message
news:g9u%h.1520$wy2.1358@trnddc03
I would like some practical advice on how to clean and
care for my LPs. A colleague told me he just uses soap
and water. I don't think that this is a good idea
especially because the water in Florida is very hard. I
owned a VPI 16 that bit the dust a few years ago. Looking
at some of the prices for auto cleaning machines and the
various specialized fluids seem outlandish. Yet some of
my records are (to me) irreplaceable. How do you care for
your vinyl? Thanks in advance.

The best way to care for LPs is to do all the things you say, digitize them,
and play the digital transcriptions to save wear and tear on the origionals.

[Chris Hornbeck]

On 10 May 2007 03:42:42 -0700, Peter Wieck wrote:

The classic analogy is to bumblebees, at one time "proven"
to be unable to fly.

But they can't. They transport by magic. Just as Vinyl "can't" sound
good.

It's all magic. My kind of magic, but magic nonetheless.

You've gotten at my point better than I possibly could've.
The magic is (hopefully always) just beyond our reach.

As an aside, I personally hope that this is the long-term-
damn-the-tordeoes-full-speed-ahead goal of this newsgroup:
magic.

It ain't as trivial a subject as might be (trivially) assumed.

Much thanks, as always,

Chris Hornbeck

[Patrick Turner]

Chris Hornbeck wrote:

On 10 May 2007 03:42:42 -0700, Peter Wieck wrote:

The classic analogy is to bumblebees, at one time "proven"
to be unable to fly.

But they can't. They transport by magic. Just as Vinyl "can't" sound
good.

It's all magic. My kind of magic, but magic nonetheless.

You've gotten at my point better than I possibly could've.
The magic is (hopefully always) just beyond our reach.

As an aside, I personally hope that this is the long-term-
damn-the-tordeoes-full-speed-ahead goal of this newsgroup:
magic.

You must be the eternal optimist if your'e in the navy.
Can't escape up into the hills, can't fly out,
and everything that's fast or cunning makes a hit.

But vinyl gives us a magical return to the past,
or brings the past into the present, whatever,
and I like the medium as much as I did when it was all we had,
and when my ears were young and thought it so wonderful
without being a critical curmudgeon of an old man.

Its fine to farewell youth, but much of being young was a
vibrant experience we need never forget.

Patrick Turner.

It ain't as trivial a subject as might be (trivially) assumed.

Much thanks, as always,

Chris Hornbeck

[west[_3_]]

"Ian Iveson" wrote in message
...
west wrote

I would like some practical advice on how to clean and care for my
LPs. A
colleague told me he just uses soap and water. I don't think that
this is a
good idea especially because the water in Florida is very hard. I
owned a
VPI 16 that bit the dust a few years ago. Looking at some of the
prices for
auto cleaning machines and the various specialized fluids seem
outlandish.
Yet some of my records are (to me) irreplaceable. How do you care
for your
vinyl? Thanks in advance.

Stubborn stains can be removed with fine carborundum paste.

Rinse thoroughly in methylene chloride.

Dry in the microwave.

Lubricate with concentrated lime juice.

cordially, Ian

My vinyl would melt.

west

[Dersu Uzala]

I use 25% alcohol, 75% distilled water, and then a drop of photo-flo.
The photo flo should be in a 1/200 ratio, it is used to clean photo negatives,
which are based on gelatin emulsion, so it will not hurt vinyl. It is a
wetting agent, it reduces surface tension so it gets down into the grooves.

[west[_3_]]

"Dersu Uzala" wrote in message
. ..
I use 25% alcohol, 75% distilled water, and then a drop of photo-flo.
The photo flo should be in a 1/200 ratio, it is used to clean photo
negatives,
which are based on gelatin emulsion, so it will not hurt vinyl. It is a
wetting agent, it reduces surface tension so it gets down into the
grooves.

Thanks for the tip. It makes a lot of sense. Do you use a machine or clean
by hand?

west