[geoff]

a.p.l.s seems to have died, so posting here !

Anybody with any strong thoughts pro or con these mixers ? I have an
opportunity to pick up one 'near new' for relatively cheap....

geoff

[George's Pro Sound Co.]

"geoff" wrote in message
...
a.p.l.s seems to have died, so posting here !

Anybody with any strong thoughts pro or con these mixers ? I have an
opportunity to pick up one 'near new' for relatively cheap....

geoff
I had nothing but trouble with every A&H I owned, except my digital Icon
be sure to test it long and hard before you take possesion
it is also not well accepted on riders for touring acts
you would be better served IMO with a pm 3500/4000
or a soundcraft series 5

[Mike Rivers]

On 11/30/2010 7:27 AM, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:

I had nothing but trouble with every A&H I owned, except my digital Icon
be sure to test it long and hard before you take possesion
it is also not well accepted on riders for touring acts

That's a switch. People used to say "no Mackies" but were
happy to have an Allen & Heath. Do you think this is a
result of Chinese manufacturing? Has it become worse over
the past 5 years? Or has it possibly improved (as most
Chinese manufacturing has) and just nobody knows because the
reputation has already been tarnished?

you would be better served IMO with a pm 3500/4000
or a soundcraft series 5

See? Now over in the PreSonus forum, someone is saying that
Yamaha consoles are a lot of trouble. Maybe we just need to
go back to the 1990s Midas boards and we'll all be OK.



--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[George's Pro Sound Co.]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 11/30/2010 7:27 AM, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:

I had nothing but trouble with every A&H I owned, except my digital Icon
be sure to test it long and hard before you take possesion
it is also not well accepted on riders for touring acts

That's a switch. People used to say "no Mackies" but were happy to have an
Allen & Heath. Do you think this is a result of Chinese manufacturing? Has
it become worse over the past 5 years? Or has it possibly improved (as
most Chinese manufacturing has) and just nobody knows because the
reputation has already been tarnished?

you would be better served IMO with a pm 3500/4000
or a soundcraft series 5

See? Now over in the PreSonus forum, someone is saying that Yamaha
consoles are a lot of trouble. Maybe we just need to go back to the 1990s
Midas boards and we'll all be OK.

I think the no A&H is targeted at the guy who might put out a gl3300
when the band asked for a xl250
at least around here the A&H desks are sold so cheap that every
body with a pair of mackie 450's has one, and they have the stink of MI
grade all over them because of that
I am mnot saying they are not functional boards for operations that really
do not have to hand their systems over to the engineer of the hour
but I just got a MINT ramsa sx-1 for 5% of it's new price
no real comparison between a real pro level desk and a dressed up MI grade
desk
I suggest he consider his applications and possibly shop more before jumping
at the first "deal too good to be true"
there will always be another "deal too good to be true" next week
george

[Art Vanderlay]

George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 11/30/2010 7:27 AM, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:

I had nothing but trouble with every A&H I owned, except my digital Icon
be sure to test it long and hard before you take possesion
it is also not well accepted on riders for touring acts
That's a switch. People used to say "no Mackies" but were happy to have an
Allen & Heath. Do you think this is a result of Chinese manufacturing? Has
it become worse over the past 5 years? Or has it possibly improved (as
most Chinese manufacturing has) and just nobody knows because the
reputation has already been tarnished?

you would be better served IMO with a pm 3500/4000
or a soundcraft series 5
See? Now over in the PreSonus forum, someone is saying that Yamaha
consoles are a lot of trouble. Maybe we just need to go back to the 1990s
Midas boards and we'll all be OK.

I think the no A&H is targeted at the guy who might put out a gl3300
when the band asked for a xl250
at least around here the A&H desks are sold so cheap that every
body with a pair of mackie 450's has one, and they have the stink of MI
grade all over them because of that
I am mnot saying they are not functional boards for operations that really
do not have to hand their systems over to the engineer of the hour
but I just got a MINT ramsa sx-1 for 5% of it's new price
no real comparison between a real pro level desk and a dressed up MI grade
desk
I suggest he consider his applications and possibly shop more before jumping
at the first "deal too good to be true"
there will always be another "deal too good to be true" next week
george


Just slightly sideways George, but what does "MI" in MI grade stand for?
I googled but could not find anything meaninful that related to pro
sound gear.

Thanks, Mark

[Joe Kotroczo]

On 01/12/2010 05:30, in article
, "Art Vanderlay"
wrote:

(...)
Just slightly sideways George, but what does "MI" in MI grade stand for?
I googled but could not find anything meaninful that related to pro
sound gear.

AFAIK MI stands for "musical instrument". Refers to the equipment marketed
through guitar shops and other musical instrument shops as opposed to
professional gear, which you won't usually find in high street shops.
Peavey, Mackie, Behringer and so on...

There's a widespread belief among people who play with really big sound
equipment that people who buy audio equipment (other than instruments) in
guitar shops are morons.


--
card carrying windows basher

[George's Pro Sound Co.]

"Joe Kotroczo" wrote in message
...
On 01/12/2010 05:30, in article
, "Art Vanderlay"
wrote:

(...)
Just slightly sideways George, but what does "MI" in MI grade stand for?
I googled but could not find anything meaninful that related to pro
sound gear.

AFAIK MI stands for "musical instrument". Refers to the equipment marketed
through guitar shops and other musical instrument shops as opposed to
professional gear, which you won't usually find in high street shops.
Peavey, Mackie, Behringer and so on...

There's a widespread belief among people who play with really big sound
equipment that people who buy audio equipment (other than instruments) in
guitar shops are morons.

Kinda like , you can't buy a catipillar D6 at home depot

http://www.carsbase.com/photo/Caterp..._pic_49394.jpg

[Mike Rivers]

On 12/1/2010 8:06 AM, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:

Kinda like , you can't buy a catipillar D6 at home depot

But maybe Neiman-Marcus. g

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Scott Dorsey]

Art Vanderlay wrote:

Just slightly sideways George, but what does "MI" in MI grade stand for?
I googled but could not find anything meaninful that related to pro
sound gear.

"Musical Instrument." It's the _opposite_ of pro sound gear.

People go to their local music store and ask for the best PA they can get,
and they come home with these really vomitous 15" 2-way speakers that have
no midrange, a plastic console, and Chinese knockoffs of SM-58s.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Joe Kotroczo wrote:

There's a widespread belief among people who play with really big sound
equipment that people who buy audio equipment (other than instruments) in
guitar shops are morons.

No, they aren't morons, just misinformed.

It's the people who _sell_ audio equipment in guitar shops who are morons.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[George's Pro Sound Co.]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Joe Kotroczo wrote:

There's a widespread belief among people who play with really big sound
equipment that people who buy audio equipment (other than instruments) in
guitar shops are morons.

No, they aren't morons, just misinformed.

It's the people who _sell_ audio equipment in guitar shops who are morons.
--scott

all that said, i own lots and lots of mi grade gear and make more money off
it than the pro stuff
just when someone comes looking for a pm5000 you are wasting your time
trying to get them to use a ml5000
the ml has a wonderful place in church installs or other stationairy
applications, A&H's real weak point has been in frame design, the things
flex too much when you move them causeing intermittent connections inside
of them
sound is not the sole reason pro boards are pro boards, it also has to do
with"will it still work after 3000 miles in the penske"
George

[Bill Graham]

Joe Kotroczo wrote:
On 01/12/2010 05:30, in article
, "Art Vanderlay"
wrote:

(...)
Just slightly sideways George, but what does "MI" in MI grade stand
for? I googled but could not find anything meaninful that related to
pro sound gear.

AFAIK MI stands for "musical instrument". Refers to the equipment
marketed through guitar shops and other musical instrument shops as
opposed to professional gear, which you won't usually find in high
street shops. Peavey, Mackie, Behringer and so on...

There's a widespread belief among people who play with really big
sound equipment that people who buy audio equipment (other than
instruments) in guitar shops are morons.

One of the big advantages to buying it in the music shops is you can usually
connect it up to a speaker-amp and listen to it. There is nothing quite like
bringing what you have to such a shop, and connecting it up to what you are
considering buying, and actually listening to it to find out if it will suit
your needs. Had I done that all of my life, I wouldn't have that pile of
junk that I can't use sitting over there in the corner of my studio.

[George's Pro Sound Co.]

"Bill Graham" wrote in message
...
Joe Kotroczo wrote:
On 01/12/2010 05:30, in article
, "Art Vanderlay"
wrote:

(...)
Just slightly sideways George, but what does "MI" in MI grade stand
for? I googled but could not find anything meaninful that related to
pro sound gear.

AFAIK MI stands for "musical instrument". Refers to the equipment
marketed through guitar shops and other musical instrument shops as
opposed to professional gear, which you won't usually find in high
street shops. Peavey, Mackie, Behringer and so on...

There's a widespread belief among people who play with really big
sound equipment that people who buy audio equipment (other than
instruments) in guitar shops are morons.

One of the big advantages to buying it in the music shops is you can
usually connect it up to a speaker-amp and listen to it. There is nothing
quite like bringing what you have to such a shop, and connecting it up to
what you are considering buying, and actually listening to it to find out
if it will suit your needs. Had I done that all of my life, I wouldn't
have that pile of junk that I can't use sitting over there in the corner
of my studio.

Pro gear sold thru pro shops is normally available for a test drive, out on
a month (or so)of real gigs, arranged by your dealer thru the mfgr's rep.
george

[Scott Dorsey]

Bill Graham wrote:

One of the big advantages to buying it in the music shops is you can usually
connect it up to a speaker-amp and listen to it. There is nothing quite like
bringing what you have to such a shop, and connecting it up to what you are
considering buying, and actually listening to it to find out if it will suit
your needs. Had I done that all of my life, I wouldn't have that pile of
junk that I can't use sitting over there in the corner of my studio.

Believe it or not, there are actually pro audio shops with people who know
what they sell, where you ALSO can go and audition equipment before buying
it. They are fewer every year, but there are still plenty of them out
there. Check the ads in Tape Op.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Bill Graham]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Bill Graham wrote:

One of the big advantages to buying it in the music shops is you can
usually connect it up to a speaker-amp and listen to it. There is
nothing quite like bringing what you have to such a shop, and
connecting it up to what you are considering buying, and actually
listening to it to find out if it will suit your needs. Had I done
that all of my life, I wouldn't have that pile of junk that I can't
use sitting over there in the corner of my studio.

Believe it or not, there are actually pro audio shops with people who
know what they sell, where you ALSO can go and audition equipment
before buying it. They are fewer every year, but there are still
plenty of them out there. Check the ads in Tape Op.
--scott

I'm sure these places exist, and if you are lucky enough to live in a big
city, you can probably take advantage of them. (and, I suppose most
professional audio technicians do live in, or near, big cities.) But, in my
case, I am retired, and living in an area where the big suppliers of such
equipment don't exist. Hell, I even have to drive over 50 miles just to find
a decent guitar-type music store where I can test out the consumer stuff.

[George's Pro Sound Co.]

"Bill Graham" wrote in message
news
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Bill Graham wrote:

One of the big advantages to buying it in the music shops is you can
usually connect it up to a speaker-amp and listen to it. There is
nothing quite like bringing what you have to such a shop, and
connecting it up to what you are considering buying, and actually
listening to it to find out if it will suit your needs. Had I done
that all of my life, I wouldn't have that pile of junk that I can't
use sitting over there in the corner of my studio.

Believe it or not, there are actually pro audio shops with people who
know what they sell, where you ALSO can go and audition equipment
before buying it. They are fewer every year, but there are still
plenty of them out there. Check the ads in Tape Op.
--scott

I'm sure these places exist, and if you are lucky enough to live in a big
city, you can probably take advantage of them. (and, I suppose most
professional audio technicians do live in, or near, big cities.) But, in
my case, I am retired, and living in an area where the big suppliers of
such equipment don't exist. Hell, I even have to drive over 50 miles just
to find a decent guitar-type music store where I can test out the consumer
stuff.

mine is 100 miles each way from me, well worth it when I am considering
dropping 10K$ on something
smaller items they will ship to me for evaluation

I buy "alot" from them
www.boyntonproaudio.com

[Mike Rivers]

On 12/2/2010 7:42 PM, Bill Graham wrote:

One of the big advantages to buying it in the music shops is
you can usually connect it up to a speaker-amp and listen to
it.

You can't usually rely on what you hear in a shop, but you
can get a much better picture of the features and functions
when you have your hands on it than by just reading the
literature or looking at pictures on a web page. But that
means you need to understand what you're looking for and
understand how mixers work. A beginner shopping for his
first mixer is likely to be overwhelmed unless the shop has
a really good salesman to give him a thorough tour and
tutorial. Not many can do that any morel.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Scott Dorsey]

Bill Graham wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

Believe it or not, there are actually pro audio shops with people who
know what they sell, where you ALSO can go and audition equipment
before buying it. They are fewer every year, but there are still
plenty of them out there. Check the ads in Tape Op.

I'm sure these places exist, and if you are lucky enough to live in a big
city, you can probably take advantage of them. (and, I suppose most
professional audio technicians do live in, or near, big cities.) But, in my
case, I am retired, and living in an area where the big suppliers of such
equipment don't exist. Hell, I even have to drive over 50 miles just to find
a decent guitar-type music store where I can test out the consumer stuff.

It's about a four-hour drive for me, but it's a lot better than spending
money on stuff that doesn't do what I want.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

Mike RIvers write:
One of the big advantages to buying it in the music shops is
you can usually connect it up to a speaker-amp and listen to
it.
You can't usually rely on what you hear in a shop, but you
can get a much better picture of the features and functions
when you have your hands on it than by just reading the
literature or looking at pictures on a web page. But that
means you need to understand what you're looking for and
understand how mixers work. A beginner shopping for his
first mixer is likely to be overwhelmed unless the shop has
a really good salesman to give him a thorough tour and
tutorial. Not many can do that any morel.
THis is true. Where I have the fun, because I *do*
understand how mixers work, how recorders work, is trying to
figure out if I can actually get at the common features of
the device I"m buying independently in the noise hustle and
bustle of the shop. I"ve found the only way I can really
get hands on something is to find somebody who's got one in
a working environment, buy/rent some time from him and use
it.
THen there's the little recorder things, I"ll eventually
find the one I want, but after I"ve tested it.

OFten the msuic shop guy just wants to give you the quick
two minute hook it up and "see how cool this is" demo.

Then there was the guy who really wanted to get me out of my
old beat box ROland drum machine and into a sequencer and a
newer drum box. HIs shop was adjacent to his studio, which
was idle that morning. SO, he has this all set up as a midi
workstation in the corner of his control room, with drum
module, sequencer and a keyboard. HE knows I"m wanting to
spend a bit of a windfall to get something to supplant the
Hammond b3 and the spinet piano. sO one morning when I come
in right as he opens to play with some gear he does the "hey
dude come back here" thing with me, sits me down at this
thing, spends 15 minute or so turning me onto how to use it.

I ended up walking out of the store that afternoon with the
Alesis hr-16, the mmt-8 sequencer box and a new keyboard.

In fact, other than setting some menu items the mmt-8 is
probably a very friendly device to use if you can't see the
lcd display. THey're still great little scratchpad
sequencers if that's what you need.





Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com