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#1
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Alternator amp increase advice request
I have a 1965 Mustang to which I am adding upgrades and modifications
(see following). The original alternator is 60 amp. With all I am adding, it appears I need an increase in amps to safely cover the draw. I don't want to be toolin' along with the windshield wipers slappin' time and flip on the lights and have the world fade to black on Coast Rte 1..... Adding mods which will likely include: basic no frills old man stereo equipment 1) radio 140 watts (4x35); 2) CD change; 3) power ant; 4) kick panel spkrs (Pioneer 6.5" coaxial 120 watt), 5) speaker bar 2 - 4" speakers, 2 - mid range and 2 - tweeters. 200 watt power handling 6) 80 w dual cone dash spkr, 7) graphic equalizer, 8) DVD player (12 w power consumption) 9) Halogen lighting (100/90w), 10) a/c to come later, 11) electronic ignition system, 12) JME 5 gauge instrument cluster, 13) power seats, 14) cruise control, 15) AODE transmission, 16) oem fog light system (which may be modded for halogen bulbs later on. 17) Underdrive pulleys added as well. I've been looking in the Summit catalog, and the Jegs catalog, at 100, 130, and 140 amp single wire (some also are available with standard wiring for old Fords). I was just informed in a Mustang NG that going to single wire in a street machine is a bad idea but no explanation as to why. Another poster refereed me to this NG as the people with lots of experience in this subject. I would be greatful for any assistance tossed my way. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 |
#2
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On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 13:49:34 -0800, Spike wrote:
I have a 1965 Mustang to which I am adding upgrades and modifications (see following). The original alternator is 60 amp. With all I am adding, it appears I need an increase in amps to safely cover the draw. I don't want to be toolin' along with the windshield wipers slappin' time and flip on the lights and have the world fade to black on Coast Rte 1..... Adding mods which will likely include: basic no frills old man stereo equipment 1) radio 140 watts (4x35); 2) CD change; 3) power ant; 4) kick panel spkrs (Pioneer 6.5" coaxial 120 watt), 5) speaker bar 2 - 4" speakers, 2 - mid range and 2 - tweeters. 200 watt power handling 6) 80 w dual cone dash spkr, 7) graphic equalizer, 8) DVD player (12 w power consumption) 9) Halogen lighting (100/90w), 10) a/c to come later, 11) electronic ignition system, 12) JME 5 gauge instrument cluster, 13) power seats, 14) cruise control, 15) AODE transmission, 16) oem fog light system (which may be modded for halogen bulbs later on. 17) Underdrive pulleys added as well. I've been looking in the Summit catalog, and the Jegs catalog, at 100, 130, and 140 amp single wire (some also are available with standard wiring for old Fords). I was just informed in a Mustang NG that going to single wire in a street machine is a bad idea but no explanation as to why. Another poster refereed me to this NG as the people with lots of experience in this subject. I would be greatful for any assistance tossed my way. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 Based on the equipment you listed, any of those capacities (100 ,130, or 140 ampere) would work fine. Look at the prices and decide what the "Sweet Spot" is. For instance, If the 130-amp is only $50 more than the 100-amp, I'd go with the larger one, but if the 140-amp is $50 more than the 130-amp, that's probably not a very good return for the extra money. There's nothing inherently wrong with a one-wire alternator for the street. Since they only have one wire (from the alternator to the battery), they're usually not compatible with your stock dash alternator warning light, but since you're adding a gauge package, that's not a big deal. The other thing to keep in mind is that the one-wire alternators don't "turn on" until they reach a certain speed. Once they "turn on", they stay on until you shut the car off. This just means that once you start the car, you may need to "blip" the throttle to get the alternator started working. The "turn-on" speed of the alternator is usually when the engine's turning around 1200 RPM, but since you're installing underdrive pulleys, that speed's going to be increased a little. You may have to "blip" the throttle up to 1500 RPM or so to get the alternator going. Again, once the alternator is "turned on", it will continue to charge until the engine comes to a complete stop. Nice to hear about your "resto-mod" project. I have a 1972 Dodge Charger with a 440 big-block that's getting a full suite of Autometer Pro-Comp Ultra-Lite gauges, and I have a new Tremec TKO II five-speed transmission and Be-Cool aluminum radiator that are going into it as soon as I get a few warm days in a row. I also have a full air conditioning setup for it fro Classic Auto Air, including a new Sanden compressor, but it's probably going to be winter again before I get it put in. -- Scott Gardner "It's always nighttime in the back of a Hawkeye." (LTJG Molly Ketchell) |
#3
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Thanks for the input.
Any reason to go with the Classic Auto Air over the Vintage Aire? So far it's been over a year. Paint is supposed to go on this Saturday. Then the interior has to go back in. 289 4v back under the hood. I added 3 point belts, and will be changing out the seats when the car is returned to me. Also going from the C4 to AOD. Middle of April is going to be a rush. I have to be in Ohio (from CA) on the 30th of April for my daughter's wedding. When asked what she wanted for a wedding gift her reply was to drive my fastback. She and her fiance are building a K.I.T.T. clone (TV show Knightrider). Oh, well. Again, my many thanks. On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 21:06:53 -0500, Scott Gardner wrote: On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 13:49:34 -0800, Spike wrote: I have a 1965 Mustang to which I am adding upgrades and modifications (see following). The original alternator is 60 amp. With all I am adding, it appears I need an increase in amps to safely cover the draw. I don't want to be toolin' along with the windshield wipers slappin' time and flip on the lights and have the world fade to black on Coast Rte 1..... Adding mods which will likely include: basic no frills old man stereo equipment 1) radio 140 watts (4x35); 2) CD change; 3) power ant; 4) kick panel spkrs (Pioneer 6.5" coaxial 120 watt), 5) speaker bar 2 - 4" speakers, 2 - mid range and 2 - tweeters. 200 watt power handling 6) 80 w dual cone dash spkr, 7) graphic equalizer, 8) DVD player (12 w power consumption) 9) Halogen lighting (100/90w), 10) a/c to come later, 11) electronic ignition system, 12) JME 5 gauge instrument cluster, 13) power seats, 14) cruise control, 15) AODE transmission, 16) oem fog light system (which may be modded for halogen bulbs later on. 17) Underdrive pulleys added as well. I've been looking in the Summit catalog, and the Jegs catalog, at 100, 130, and 140 amp single wire (some also are available with standard wiring for old Fords). I was just informed in a Mustang NG that going to single wire in a street machine is a bad idea but no explanation as to why. Another poster refereed me to this NG as the people with lots of experience in this subject. I would be greatful for any assistance tossed my way. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 Based on the equipment you listed, any of those capacities (100 ,130, or 140 ampere) would work fine. Look at the prices and decide what the "Sweet Spot" is. For instance, If the 130-amp is only $50 more than the 100-amp, I'd go with the larger one, but if the 140-amp is $50 more than the 130-amp, that's probably not a very good return for the extra money. There's nothing inherently wrong with a one-wire alternator for the street. Since they only have one wire (from the alternator to the battery), they're usually not compatible with your stock dash alternator warning light, but since you're adding a gauge package, that's not a big deal. The other thing to keep in mind is that the one-wire alternators don't "turn on" until they reach a certain speed. Once they "turn on", they stay on until you shut the car off. This just means that once you start the car, you may need to "blip" the throttle to get the alternator started working. The "turn-on" speed of the alternator is usually when the engine's turning around 1200 RPM, but since you're installing underdrive pulleys, that speed's going to be increased a little. You may have to "blip" the throttle up to 1500 RPM or so to get the alternator going. Again, once the alternator is "turned on", it will continue to charge until the engine comes to a complete stop. Nice to hear about your "resto-mod" project. I have a 1972 Dodge Charger with a 440 big-block that's getting a full suite of Autometer Pro-Comp Ultra-Lite gauges, and I have a new Tremec TKO II five-speed transmission and Be-Cool aluminum radiator that are going into it as soon as I get a few warm days in a row. I also have a full air conditioning setup for it fro Classic Auto Air, including a new Sanden compressor, but it's probably going to be winter again before I get it put in. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 |
#4
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"Spike" wrote in message ... Thanks for the input. Any reason to go with the Classic Auto Air over the Vintage Aire? Make dern sure that it uses R-134A refrigerant instead of the older R-12. You can do a conversion but it doesn't get as cold. If you take your time and cut very little add-on A/C units can look and work great!!!! Chad |
#5
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"Chad Wahls" wrote in message ... "Spike" wrote in message ... Thanks for the input. Any reason to go with the Classic Auto Air over the Vintage Aire? Make dern sure that it uses R-134A refrigerant instead of the older R-12. You can do a conversion but it doesn't get as cold. If you take your time and cut very little add-on A/C units can look and work great!!!! Chad If everything remained the same, R12 should cool better than R134a. -Bruce |
#6
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"Bruce Chang" wrote in message ... "Chad Wahls" wrote in message ... "Spike" wrote in message ... Thanks for the input. Any reason to go with the Classic Auto Air over the Vintage Aire? Make dern sure that it uses R-134A refrigerant instead of the older R-12. You can do a conversion but it doesn't get as cold. If you take your time and cut very little add-on A/C units can look and work great!!!! Chad If everything remained the same, R12 should cool better than R134a. -Bruce That is correct but a R12 system converted to a 134A system will not get as cold as a 134A system. Chad |
#7
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On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 21:02:38 -0800, Spike wrote:
Thanks for the input. Any reason to go with the Classic Auto Air over the Vintage Aire? I went with the Classic Auto Air mainly for reliability reasons. The Vintage Air units have physically smaller evaporators to begin with, and then they rob a few coils from the evaporator to serve as the heater coil. In addition to making them less efficient, you run the risk of the heater coils freezing and cracking if the evaporator coils right next to them ever ice up. Pretty much every auto A/C person I talked to said that the Vintage Air units were fine for smaller cars and relatively mild weather, but for larger cars and seriously hot or cold weather, they're a little underpowered. Also, the Vintage Air evaporators are glued together at the factory and aren't designed to be taken apart, maintained, or repaired. If anything goes wrong, total evaporator replacement is pretty much your only option. Since I'm installing a complete A/C system from the ground up and not re-using any of the factory components, I'm going with R-134 as the refrigerant. The condenser I'm using is HUGE compared to the factory R-12 condenser, so the overall cooling capacity should be much better than the factory R-12 system. The compressor I'm using is the Sanden 508 (actually, the R-134 version has a different model number, but it's the same unit as the 508, with slightly different internals). -- Scott Gardner "God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." (Voltaire) |
#8
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On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 12:43:37 -0600, "Chad Wahls"
wrote: That is correct but a R12 system converted to a 134A system will not get as cold as a 134A system. Chad True - the general rule of thumb is that the condenser needs to be about 20% larger to compensate for the reduced efficiency of R-134 compared to R-12. That's why if you convert a system over to R-134 without changing the condenser, it will never get as cold as it did when you were running R-12. -- Scott Gardner "Oh look, things are going from bad to worse!" |
#9
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Thanks, Scott. I was already planning on the 134A because I don't want
to have to change it later. The conversion on my TransAM was $1000, and didn't cool as well. Besides which, the cost of the R-12 is going to keep climbing as it becomes scarce... unless I want to drive to Tijuana for a recharge... LOL... Oh, wait, the discussion was air conditioning... : ) I just wasn't informed about the unit itself. So, I'll look it up, but hopefully the price range is close, and it all fits under the dash in place of what is there. On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 14:44:20 -0500, Scott Gardner wrote: On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 21:02:38 -0800, Spike wrote: Thanks for the input. Any reason to go with the Classic Auto Air over the Vintage Aire? I went with the Classic Auto Air mainly for reliability reasons. The Vintage Air units have physically smaller evaporators to begin with, and then they rob a few coils from the evaporator to serve as the heater coil. In addition to making them less efficient, you run the risk of the heater coils freezing and cracking if the evaporator coils right next to them ever ice up. Pretty much every auto A/C person I talked to said that the Vintage Air units were fine for smaller cars and relatively mild weather, but for larger cars and seriously hot or cold weather, they're a little underpowered. Also, the Vintage Air evaporators are glued together at the factory and aren't designed to be taken apart, maintained, or repaired. If anything goes wrong, total evaporator replacement is pretty much your only option. Since I'm installing a complete A/C system from the ground up and not re-using any of the factory components, I'm going with R-134 as the refrigerant. The condenser I'm using is HUGE compared to the factory R-12 condenser, so the overall cooling capacity should be much better than the factory R-12 system. The compressor I'm using is the Sanden 508 (actually, the R-134 version has a different model number, but it's the same unit as the 508, with slightly different internals). Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 |
#10
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On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 12:31:20 -0800, Spike wrote:
Thanks, Scott. I was already planning on the 134A because I don't want to have to change it later. The conversion on my TransAM was $1000, and didn't cool as well. Besides which, the cost of the R-12 is going to keep climbing as it becomes scarce... unless I want to drive to Tijuana for a recharge... LOL... Oh, wait, the discussion was air conditioning... : ) I just wasn't informed about the unit itself. So, I'll look it up, but hopefully the price range is close, and it all fits under the dash in place of what is there. Spike, Classic Auto Air has one of their "Perfect Fit" models that's designed for a 1965 Mustang. The total system price is just under $1100. Here's a link that describes what's in the "Perfect Fit" series, as well as some general advantages of the Classic Auto Air products: http://www.classicautoair.com/perfectfit.htm -- Scott Gardner "Landing on the ship during the daytime is like sex, it's either good or it's great. Landing on the ship at night is like a trip to the dentist, you may get away with no pain, but you just don't feel comfortable." (LCDR Thomas Quinn, USN) |
#11
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As a matter of fact, I talked to them today and made the
switch......as to what I'm going with.... though I may hold off until May. It was 1095 for the unit 68 something for shipping, 55 for a clutch cap if I wanted it, and 49 added for the polished Sanden. Close enough. Thanks a bunch... : ) On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 23:08:31 -0500, Scott Gardner wrote: On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 12:31:20 -0800, Spike wrote: Thanks, Scott. I was already planning on the 134A because I don't want to have to change it later. The conversion on my TransAM was $1000, and didn't cool as well. Besides which, the cost of the R-12 is going to keep climbing as it becomes scarce... unless I want to drive to Tijuana for a recharge... LOL... Oh, wait, the discussion was air conditioning... : ) I just wasn't informed about the unit itself. So, I'll look it up, but hopefully the price range is close, and it all fits under the dash in place of what is there. Spike, Classic Auto Air has one of their "Perfect Fit" models that's designed for a 1965 Mustang. The total system price is just under $1100. Here's a link that describes what's in the "Perfect Fit" series, as well as some general advantages of the Classic Auto Air products: http://www.classicautoair.com/perfectfit.htm Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 |
#12
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On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 22:21:52 -0800, Spike wrote:
As a matter of fact, I talked to them today and made the switch......as to what I'm going with.... though I may hold off until May. It was 1095 for the unit 68 something for shipping, 55 for a clutch cap if I wanted it, and 49 added for the polished Sanden. Close enough. Thanks a bunch... : ) Glad you found it useful. I talked to the people at Classic Auto Air before I bought my system, and found them to be very helpful. It's been about 18 months since I received the system and I still haven't installed it yet (recovering from a motorcycle accident), that I've forgotten all of the little parts I got. I know I got the polished Sanden compressor, though. They did a nice job of polishing it, except they didn't clean all of the polishing paste out of the nooks and crannies, so there's some grey residue in the crevices. I'm not sure how long the polished finish will hold up under the hood of a car before it'll require re-polishing, though. I don't know if Classic Auto Air carries the chromed version of the Sanden 508, or how much more it would cost, but that would probably be lower-maintenance than the polished finish. I think I got the clutch hub cover as well, just for looks. One thing I forgot to mention, though. Since the "Perfect Fit" series is meant for a factory-appearing installation in cars that originally didn't have A/C, it's designed so that you can control the new heater and A/C using the car's original heater and vent controls. Everything works, but it can be a little confusing since the switch labels won't be right. Makes sense, because you're controlling the new heater, defroster, and air conditioner using a control panel that originally controlled only a heater and defroster. If a completely-stock appearance isn't critical, you can order a new control panel that will have all of the levers and knobs required to control everything, with all of the controls correctly labeled. I got the billet aluminum one. Since I'm having a custom dash built for the car, I'm not too concerned with originality. I only hope I can get it all installed before the summer's over. I have a garage full of parts that need to find their way into the car sometime this summer, and I'm not sure when I'm going to do it. I guess that's the way it always is with project cars, though. -- Scott Gardner "One tentacle, one vote." |
#13
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I have not ordered yet, but I did check it out, and I requested their
catalog. Chrome is a bit on the expensive side probably for my budget, so I may just go with the polished. I need the exercise anyway : ) Depends on the price difference. As for the clutch cap, in order to pinch a few pennies for the time being, I will probably put that off for now. Same with the dash control panel. Either I will adjust to it, or I will get a correct one later on. I'm not totally against change, but I am trying to keep it close to original. I have an intermittent wiper system out of a Ford F-150 pu that's the same knob and such as the Mustang except it used a longer switch shaft. Just have to cut it a bit and flatten a spot for the set screw. Then I have modern convenience that looks like nothing has been changed. Nothing wrong with some added comforts like the sound system, decent seats, 3 point seatbelts, etc. Right now, I just want to get the main things out of the way so I can start using it. It's been with the restoration company for over a year and I'm not getting any younger waiting. Once it's up and running, I can add things over time. Right now, I have at least 4 trips to make from Calif to Ohio (2), Tennessee, and Florida, between now and June of 06. I want to enjoy those miles. I should be back from the first trip before summer really hits around here which gives me time to install the a/c. Again thanks for the input. On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 01:47:17 -0500, Scott Gardner wrote: On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 22:21:52 -0800, Spike wrote: As a matter of fact, I talked to them today and made the switch......as to what I'm going with.... though I may hold off until May. It was 1095 for the unit 68 something for shipping, 55 for a clutch cap if I wanted it, and 49 added for the polished Sanden. Close enough. Thanks a bunch... : ) Glad you found it useful. I talked to the people at Classic Auto Air before I bought my system, and found them to be very helpful. It's been about 18 months since I received the system and I still haven't installed it yet (recovering from a motorcycle accident), that I've forgotten all of the little parts I got. I know I got the polished Sanden compressor, though. They did a nice job of polishing it, except they didn't clean all of the polishing paste out of the nooks and crannies, so there's some grey residue in the crevices. I'm not sure how long the polished finish will hold up under the hood of a car before it'll require re-polishing, though. I don't know if Classic Auto Air carries the chromed version of the Sanden 508, or how much more it would cost, but that would probably be lower-maintenance than the polished finish. I think I got the clutch hub cover as well, just for looks. One thing I forgot to mention, though. Since the "Perfect Fit" series is meant for a factory-appearing installation in cars that originally didn't have A/C, it's designed so that you can control the new heater and A/C using the car's original heater and vent controls. Everything works, but it can be a little confusing since the switch labels won't be right. Makes sense, because you're controlling the new heater, defroster, and air conditioner using a control panel that originally controlled only a heater and defroster. If a completely-stock appearance isn't critical, you can order a new control panel that will have all of the levers and knobs required to control everything, with all of the controls correctly labeled. I got the billet aluminum one. Since I'm having a custom dash built for the car, I'm not too concerned with originality. I only hope I can get it all installed before the summer's over. I have a garage full of parts that need to find their way into the car sometime this summer, and I'm not sure when I'm going to do it. I guess that's the way it always is with project cars, though. Hey! Spikey Likes IT! 1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8" w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16 |
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