"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
and what did I say
tur it up until it blinks then turn it back so it wont
this is how its done when a clip light is your only meter

Which is why that is not the best metering option!

did nI ever say it was "the best" metering option?
yes or no, please

So true, one wonders what the levels on the mix bus are like when he
sets
16
channels to clipping point! :-)

see above
I am clipping nothing during the mixing
as most clip lights come on at least 3 if not 6dB before actual clip I
have
adaquate headroom

16 (or maybe 32) channels at 3dB below clipping does not equal adequate

where do youfind 16 or 32 channel mixers without proper metering?

headroom on the main mix bus IMO.
And a 3dB margin for a live performance almost guarantees you will
overload
at least one channel at some point!

I will let the kick drum peak with some forms of music
also many hiphop "artists" DESIRE a clipped fuzzy signal

If your clients are happy though, I sure don't care.

then why doyou post 30 times in a row about something you neither understand
or care about?


but honestly I cant remember using any desk over 4 channels that did not
provide proper metering
so your imagined senerio of 16 channels going to clip simply
never has and never will happen

The Yamaha EMX series wiring diagram is available on-line, I suggest your
ignorance is still showing.

MrT.

please refrence a professional tool that some one like me would actually use
the emx is junior high av deparment crap
and is there even a 16 ch emx?
yes I know nearly nothing about the detail of some piece of **** mixer I
weouldn't drag to the river to throw in
check the metering on my ls9/32 or my harrison hm4 or my ramsa 840 or my(now
gone) soundcraft K2
your appearing as just a troll at this point
george

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u...

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
...
Not so Graham, by not making an adjustment of the record level during the
recording I have gained not having to make the reverse adjustment in post
to
maintain actual dynamics.

Nobody suggested continually riding gains during the performance Peter.
Getting it right at the start, and knowing you have sufficient headroom,
means you do not have to.

With two clipped samples on the recorded music I also submit that I got
the
record level right.

If they are relatively short duration, sure.
Did you use any metering to set the levels initially, or just a clip led
though?

You do have the benefit of knowing the sensitivities of your microphones
though. Try it with a rock group and let us know how you get on!

MrT.


your ignorance of the(lack of) dynamic range of rock groups is showing
george

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u...

wrote in message
...
with all respect , we discuss LIVE sound not studio sound here

Maybe you check ALL the newsgroups in the header again!

I really don't give a rats ass what group you crawled out of "I" am posting
in aapls
studio zombies are not what we do


but outside of some shure av mixers I ca't think of any live sound desks
that do ot have at least pfl

But not PFL metering, which was the claim.

pfl metering
consists of anything that can check the pre fade level
after all in LIVE sound(which is what we do here) PFL stands for opre fade
level
if you want to listen , use the solo
and metering IS anything from the pages and pages of meters my big digital
desk have all the way down to a single clip meter
and one NEEDS to understand how to use them all
it clear you dont
its also clear you are not up to live sound standards
perhaps you should stsay within something you understand

MrT.

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u...

wrote in message
...
we have to establish what exactly you uderstand

At least we already know what you understand, nothing :-)

MrT.

and I am schooling you
sad

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u...

wrote in message
...
and what do you use when there is ONLY the clip light?

With the EMX I use the meters on my computer that I use as an 8 channel
recorder.
Sure you could rely on the clip LED's to tell you when it's too late, if
that's what you prefer.

MrT.


sorry , english isn't your first language , is it
it seems you missed the part where I explained how to get adaquate headroom
, using a clip meter

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u...

wrote in message
...
we dont care if you agree with it
they are satisfying MOST of thier customers

Where is the customer survey data that supports that statement?
Fact is they are more about satisfying their accountant and/or
shareholders,
no matter how you spin it.

MrT.

your just a dried up old coot
if they were not satisfying thier customers they would not be so succesful
there is no monolopy on audio gear manufacturing
george

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
...

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...
I can tell you MY client's not very happy that buying a new crossover is
cost-competitive with a repair

Probably cheaper if shipping is taken into account.
That's the nature of Chinese manufacture though.

MrT.


I wasn't happy that I had to put a transmission in my chrysler
or a brake booster in my 33,000 gvw ford
but will I stop buying cars/trucks because I had to fix one?
you want to be happy go buy a puppy

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u...

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...
The majority of electronic crossovers sold today are still analogue. DSP
is overkill for just a
crossover.

In your opinion, sure.

And why does a lake cost $5000 and a behringer Cost $200/300 dollars?

$5000 is way OTT for a crossover though. But of course it's not just a
crossover it's a DSP
CONTROLLER which is an entirely different animal.

But the Beheringer DCX 2496 is also a DSP controller.

MrT.

and your point is?

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u...

wrote in message
...
So you don't understand the difference between
"metering" (as you originally
stated) and a simple clip "indicator" then.

No but they are metering

Thanks for proving my point, you don't know.

your point being what?
a clip light is a very rudimetairy meter

No, it's not a *meter* at all. Aren't you ashamed to keep publishing your
ignorance?
Ignorance is *not* always bliss you know.

MrT.


it isa meter. a very basic meter
but still a meter
arn't you ashamed to be so wrong in such a public forum
this will haunt you just like arnii declareing foh was on stage

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u...

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...
Better advice would be to adjust the gain trim til the clip LEDs light,
then
turn the gain trim down by TEN dB !

But many desks do not have calibrated gain settings. Without any metering
10dB is only a wild guess.

Turning it down so the channel 'just'
doesn't clip according to the LEDS gives almost no worthwhile headroom at
all.
It'll also guarantee nonsense fader settings too.

Agreed.

not at all, it gives you "around " 10 dB of headroom
and even if the clip meter lights due to someone turning way up on stage ,
just bump it back a touch more
the lclip meter is not lighting at clipping
it starts to glow well before asny clipping is occouring
have either of you ever touched a live sound desk
it doesn't seems so from your posts
george
MrT.

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u...

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...
Anyone with half a clue can set channel gains without PFL metering. I
rarely need to resort to it.

Near enough is good enough for you though it would seem.
And you probably don't worry about overloading the mix bus either.

I've been giving this some thought. Admittedly I have decades of
experience but
I didn't clip my channels when I started in this business either.

To a certain extent you've either got the 'knack' or you haven't. In my
case I
do of course have the advantage of a thorough technical understanding of
the
internal workings too.

So now your new claim is that "Anyone with half a clue, a thorough
technical
understanding of the
internal workings, and decades of experience can set channel gains without
PFL metering".

I can't argue with that! :-)

Of course simple metering would make it even easier in any case.

what could possibly be simplier than a single metering light?

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
...

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...
The only reason I need a channel PFL is if I need to 'troubleshoot'.

Like why the audience has to put up with the distortion :-)

More like because I want to listen to the channel in detail in isolation.
It is
pre-fade LISTEN after all.

sorry eyesore
in live sound that is call the SOLO
not the pfl
in live sound pfl stands for PRE FADE LEVEL
and seeing as this is the live sound group that is the definition that is
used

Agreed, but YOU were the one who said "The only reason I need a channel
PFL
is if I need to 'troubleshoot'"
I don't consider isolating instruments to check EQ's etc as
"troublesooting".
and I don't consider that pfl either
that is the SOLO function


Any decent modern mixer with a sensible gain struture (and operated
proficiently) is in no danger whatever of clipping a channel under
normal
mix conditions. As such, fretting over channel levels is a pointless
and
futile exercise.

You are lucky that all the instruments you plug in have similar output
levels then.

No they don't.

There's this thing called the gain trim you see.


Which you prefer to set with clip LED's and I prefer to set with meters.
Isn't that what we were arguing about?

MrT.

no0 one is "arguing" with you ms.T
we are laughing at you
baiting you
and flaming you
your a simple troll and are being treat as such

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u...

"Phildo" wrote in message
...
No but they are metering

Nope, they are warning lights.

Like it or not Arnold, they are a form of metering.

The trouble with kids these days, they've never even seen a real METER :-)

An LED bar graph may be called a "meter" equivalent, but a single LED, no
way!
Argue all you like, it doesn't prove anything except your lack of
linguistic
skills.

MrT.

sorry you wrong on this point T
as clip lights vary in bringhtness giving you a full range of
indication(metering)
not simply clip/not clipped
many also change from green to red as clipping approaches
its clear now you have never seen a live sound desk in use or you would have
known this
george

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
...

"Phildo" wrote in message
...
How many times do you have to have the reasons for Behringer's
decision
explained to you before it penetrates your thick skull?

I know what their policy is,

Sure doesn't look that way from what you are posting. You keep saying
that
it is all a lie

Bull****! All I said was the excuses for that policy are just pathetic
spin.

Prove they are NOT, or simply accept they simply do what they want, and
can
get away with.
I did years ago!

thier sucess is proof of the solid policy they have in place
if thier policy did not serve thier customers they would not be so sucessful
for so log
simple economics ,lil buddy

and not believing what you are told so one can only assume
you can't get your head round the concept.

That's the trouble when you ASSume something.


I DO NOT have to agree with it just because you
do.

So? You may not like it but it is not your decision to make.

Did someone say it was?

you seem to think it is
but you are just a troll, and right now I am haveing fun toying you around

MrT.

[Eeyore]

"Mr.T" wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote

The majority of electronic crossovers sold today are still analogue. DSP
is overkill for just a crossover.

In your opinion, sure.

It's a fact. A basic rossover only needs 4 simple filter sections which are ****
easy and cheap to make the analogue way.


And why does a lake cost $5000 and a behringer Cost $200/300 dollars?

$5000 is way OTT for a crossover though. But of course it's not just a
crossover it's a DSP CONTROLLER which is an entirely different animal.

But the Beheringer DCX 2496 is also a DSP controller.

That's not the unit my client has or needs. See thread title.

Graham

[Eeyore]

"Mr.T" wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote

Better advice would be to adjust the gain trim til the clip LEDs light,
then turn the gain trim down by TEN dB !

But many desks do not have calibrated gain settings.

Plenty do though.

Graham

[Eeyore]

"Mr.T" wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote

Anyone with half a clue can set channel gains without PFL metering. I
rarely need to resort to it.

Near enough is good enough for you though it would seem.
And you probably don't worry about overloading the mix bus either.

I've been giving this some thought. Admittedly I have decades of
experience but I didn't clip my channels when I started in this business
either.

To a certain extent you've either got the 'knack' or you haven't. In my
case I do of course have the advantage of a thorough technical understanding
of
the internal workings too.

So now your new claim is that "Anyone with half a clue, a thorough technical
understanding of the internal workings, and decades of experience can set
channel gains without
PFL metering".

I can't argue with that! :-)

Half a clue would normally suffice !


Of course simple metering would make it even easier in any case.

Not amy easier to be honest. I rarely bother with it.

Graham

[Eeyore]

"Mr.T" wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote

There's this thing called the gain trim you see.

Which you prefer to set with clip LED's

No, that George's idea.


and I prefer to set with meters. Isn't that what we were arguing about?

I set the channel gain roughly according to how loud I want the channel in the
mix with the faders at ~ 0dB. Then you mix with the faders. Simple really and
assures perfect gain staging.

Graham

[Eeyore]

wrote:

I am clipping nothing during the mixing
as most clip lights come on at least 3 if not 6dB before actual clip I have
adaquate headroom

Only if you think 3dB is adequate headroom LOL !

There's another side to this btw. Every mixer's clip detection circuit I can
ever recall seeing detects only on one polarity of the signal, be it negative or
positive.

Since musical signals are regularly quite asymmetric, there's a real danger
especially with just a 3dB before clip threshold that actually the signal IS
clipped BEFORE the clip LED comes on.

Graham

[Eeyore]

wrote:

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
"Eeyore" wrote in message

Better advice would be to adjust the gain trim til the clip LEDs light,
then turn the gain trim down by TEN dB !

But many desks do not have calibrated gain settings. Without any metering
10dB is only a wild guess.

Turning it down so the channel 'just'
doesn't clip according to the LEDS gives almost no worthwhile headroom at
all. It'll also guarantee nonsense fader settings too.

Agreed.

not at all, it gives you "around " 10 dB of headroom

No, around 13 - 16 dB of headroom.


and even if the clip meter lights due to someone turning way up on stage ,
just bump it back a touch more
the lclip meter is not lighting at clipping
it starts to glow well before asny clipping is occouring

Absolutely NOT true of any mixer design I've ever seen and that's a fair few.


have either of you ever touched a live sound desk
it doesn't seems so from your posts

Bwahahahahahaa ! Only been doing it since age 16 !

Graham

[Eeyore]

wrote:

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote
"Eeyore" wrote

The only reason I need a channel PFL is if I need to 'troubleshoot'.

Like why the audience has to put up with the distortion :-)

More like because I want to listen to the channel in detail in isolation.
It is pre-fade LISTEN after all.

sorry eyesore
in live sound that is call the SOLO

That's wrong terminology. SOLO was incorrectly borrowed from recording practice
and means something very very different.

Shows how little you actually know about pro-audio.

Graham

[Eeyore]

wrote:

sorry you wrong on this point T
as clip lights vary in bringhtness giving you a full range of
indication(metering)

UTTER (and complete) ********.

Stcik to what you know like hauling and rigging and stay off the technical
discussions.


Graham

[Arny Krueger]

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u
wrote in message
...
Peak operating levels through a console or a preamp
should be at least 10 dB below clipping. Under those
conditions, the clipping light is always dark, and
unlikely to ever light.

I don't get the point in that speculation. If you want
maximum signal to noise ratio then you need to use the
available dynamic range.

To do that efficiently you of course need to know what
you are doing.

Yes, like not adding high levels of distortion just to
gain a couple of dB of S/N ratio.

distortion IS noise

Only for the technically illiterate George.
IF you can't comprehend the difference between wide band
noise and clipping induced distortion, there is no point
in me pointing out why it is usually referred to as NOISE
+ DISTORTION I guess.

you can not increase the s/n by adding noise.

So why are you advocating running all channels at their
clip point?

Actually, George is effectively advocating running channels at well above
their clip point. If you study the clipping indicators on low and mid-priced
equipment, they respond to instantaneous overages, and don't have
pulse-stretching circuits that enhance the visibility of clipping. If you
measure distortion and examine the clipping indicator at the same time,
there will be relatively large amounts of distortion before the clip light
glows even faintly.

There is a semi-reasonable way to use clipping indicator to set levels,
which is to use a calibrated gain control to bring the levels up to the
point where clipping is indicated, and then back off the gain a certain
number of dB into a presumably safe area. Exactly what back-off to use
depends on how the equipment's clipping indicator works, which can be
determined from experience, careful listening, and measuring.

George and Phildo like to rant and rave very disapprovingly about my use of
multichannel recordings of live recordings to evaluate system performance.
Peter has already broken that ice in this thread. One of the mmethods I've
used to evaluate the operation of clipping indicators is to compare them to
recordings of the corresponding channels.

[Eeyore]

Arny Krueger wrote:

Actually, George is effectively advocating running channels at well above
their clip point. If you study the clipping indicators on low and mid-priced
equipment, they respond to instantaneous overages, and don't have
pulse-stretching circuits that enhance the visibility of clipping.

Mine certainly do.

Here's a funny thing though ....

We used to get write ups where the reviewers said our peak indicators were
'slow'. For ages we couldn't figure what they were on about until the penny
dropped. Our clip LEDs stayed on for TOO LONG according to these guys ! So we
reduced the time constant of the circuit (so that they would flicker more) and
then they were happy.

Bizarre how they imagined it was 'slow' before though. Ity doesn't even remotely
affect the response time. It's purely a visual illusion.

Graham

[Arny Krueger]

"Bob Urz" wrote in message

Eeyore wrote:

Strange as it may seem, I have seen no such changes in
electronic crossover design in some roughly 30 years
that they've been popular.

Maybe 15 years ago $300 got you a Rane 2 or 3-way, with 4th order L-R
filters.

In the past 2-3 years $300 gets you a CDX 2496 which outflanks the old Rane
analog crossovers every which way but loose.

Don't agree here. With the advent of cheaper DSP's and
memory, the modern electronic crossover and processor was born.

Agreed. Advantages of modern DSP-based crossovers over the old analog
classics include:

Built-in limiters
Flexible configurations
More inputs and outputs
Built-in equalizers

They did not exist 30 years ago. Granted, you mimic in a dsp
was was a analog function.

But, with higher performance.

But its NOT the same animal.

It's a superior beast, but it can be more complex to setup.

And why does a lake cost $5000 and a behringer Cost
$200/300 dollars?

Fancy front panels and hype makes up a lot of that difference. In the end,
the basics of a crossover is just a filter farm.

[Arny Krueger]

"Eeyore" wrote in
message
Arny Krueger wrote:

Actually, George is effectively advocating running
channels at well above their clip point. If you study
the clipping indicators on low and mid-priced equipment,
they respond to instantaneous overages, and don't have
pulse-stretching circuits that enhance the visibility of
clipping.

Mine certainly do.

Here's a funny thing though ....

We used to get write ups where the reviewers said our
peak indicators were 'slow'. For ages we couldn't figure
what they were on about until the penny dropped. Our clip
LEDs stayed on for TOO LONG according to these guys ! So
we reduced the time constant of the circuit (so that they
would flicker more) and then they were happy.

Bizarre how they imagined it was 'slow' before though.
Ity doesn't even remotely affect the response time. It's
purely a visual illusion.

Many reviewers are stronger on the journalism thing than the audio
technology.

[Phildo]

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u...
you can not increase the s/n by adding noise.

So why are you advocating running all channels at their clip point?

He isn't. Please learn to read English.

Phildo

[Phildo]

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
and what did I say
tur it up until it blinks then turn it back so it wont
this is how its done when a clip light is your only meter

Which is why that is not the best metering option!

But according to Arny 95% of mixing desks only have that if any metering at
all.

Phildo

[Phildo]

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u...

wrote in message
...
we have to establish what exactly you uderstand

At least we already know what you understand, nothing :-)

OK, I now understand that Mr T actually stands for Mr Troll.

Into the killfile with you ****wit.

George, I suggest you do the same. He isn't worthy of your time.

Phildo

[Arny Krueger]

"Phildo" wrote in message

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
...
The real world of audio often uses mixers with proper
metering. I can't say I've ever seen a real studio mixer without a
metering bridge!

Strange, Arny claims that 95% of desks don't have
metering. Go figure.

Typical of Phildo's confusion with simple facts.

T talks about "real studio mixer", of which only a tiny percentage of all
mixers are.

Phildo refers my comments, which was based on a percentage of all mixers,
professional grade and not, including those jillions of very small mixers
that one sees all over the place.

The only conflct is in Phildo's mind!

[Phildo]

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
...

"Phildo" wrote in message
...
How many times do you have to have the reasons for Behringer's
decision
explained to you before it penetrates your thick skull?

I know what their policy is,

Sure doesn't look that way from what you are posting. You keep saying
that
it is all a lie

Bull****! All I said was the excuses for that policy are just pathetic
spin.

No, they are valid reasons.

Prove they are NOT, or simply accept they simply do what they want, and
can
get away with.

You are the one making the claims that they are not being honest. YOU prove
it.

I did years ago!

Male Bovine Excrement.

and not believing what you are told so one can only assume
you can't get your head round the concept.

That's the trouble when you ASSume something.

Well you have given us plenty of evidence that is the case. We only have
your words to go on and all they tell us is that YOU are the ass here.

I DO NOT have to agree with it just because you
do.

So? You may not like it but it is not your decision to make.

Did someone say it was?

Yes, you did.

Phildo

[Phildo]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
Actually, George is effectively advocating running channels at well above
their clip point.

Yet again you show your complete lack of live sound experience and talk
crap.

If you study the clipping indicators on low and mid-priced equipment, they
respond to instantaneous overages, and don't have pulse-stretching circuits
that enhance the visibility of clipping. If you measure distortion and
examine the clipping indicator at the same time, there will be relatively
large amounts of distortion before the clip light glows even faintly.

********.

There is a semi-reasonable way to use clipping indicator to set levels,
which is to use a calibrated gain control to bring the levels up to the
point where clipping is indicated, and then back off the gain a certain
number of dB into a presumably safe area. Exactly what back-off to use
depends on how the equipment's clipping indicator works, which can be
determined from experience, careful listening, and measuring.

Which is EXACTLY what George said.

George and Phildo like to rant and rave very disapprovingly about my use
of multichannel recordings of live recordings to evaluate system
performance.

Stop twisting things Arnold. You stated that you use it to try to fix
feedback ready for the next week's service by which time a lot of things
that caused the feedback will have changed. As usual you were talking crap.

Phildo

[Ron(UK)]

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Phildo" wrote in message

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
...
The real world of audio often uses mixers with proper
metering. I can't say I've ever seen a real studio mixer without a
metering bridge!
Strange, Arny claims that 95% of desks don't have
metering. Go figure.

Typical of Phildo's confusion with simple facts.

T talks about "real studio mixer", of which only a tiny percentage of all
mixers are.

Phildo refers my comments, which was based on a percentage of all mixers,
professional grade and not, including those jillions of very small mixers
that one sees all over the place.

The only conflct is in Phildo's mind!


This argument is getting sillier by the day

[Arny Krueger]

"Ron(UK)" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Phildo" wrote in message

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
...
The real world of audio often uses mixers with proper
metering. I can't say I've ever seen a real studio
mixer without a metering bridge!
Strange, Arny claims that 95% of desks don't have
metering. Go figure.

Typical of Phildo's confusion with simple facts.

T talks about "real studio mixer", of which only a tiny
percentage of all mixers are.

Phildo refers my comments, which was based on a
percentage of all mixers, professional grade and not, including those
jillions of very small mixers that one
sees all over the place. The only conflct is in Phildo's mind!


This argument is getting sillier by the day

Agreed, but Phildo keeps bringing it up.

[Mickey]

On 2007-09-30, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
You will notice that every neighborhood used to have a corner TV repair
shop, and now they are almost completely gone? Consumer electronics is
so cheap that it is not cost-effective to repair.

There's no reason it should be. I see nothing on the Behringer site
that suggets it is intended to be thrown away after say 3 years.

This is the basic lifetime expected of TV sets and VCRs. This is considered
to be about the average life of a consumer electronics product.

I don't know where you have been buying TVs, but their lifetime is 20 years
and more, routinely demonstrated in real life. VCRs maybe less because of
dust/cleanliness issues, but they certainly last more than three years.

Since people regularly want to upgrade to get new features, it's not
considered important to extend the lifetime greatly beyond that point.

This is the way cheap consumer electronics are. If you don't like it,
don't buy it.

I like it. It makes sense for me, except for things that I am going to
be relying on on a daily basis. Even then it might make sense if I can
afford to inventory a hot spare.

The percentage of DOAs for electronic gear keeps dropping along with
the price. Go figure.

--
Mickey

Some people have twenty years of experience, some people have
one year of experience twenty times over. -- Anonymous

[Mike Marlow]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..


Agreed, but Phildo keeps bringing it up.


'Cause he did it first mommy. Ya know what Arny - the difference is that
Phildo makes no pretenses about what kind of asshole he is. The two of you
are a comedy in motion in this group but you seem to lack the awareness of
your contribution.

--

-Mike-

[Arny Krueger]

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..


Agreed, but Phildo keeps bringing it up.


'Cause he did it first mommy. Ya know what Arny - the
difference is that Phildo makes no pretenses about what
kind of asshole he is. The two of you are a comedy in
motion in this group but you seem to lack the awareness
of your contribution.

I'd like to see how you'd be about it if Phildo harassed you the same way.

[Eeyore]

Phildo wrote:

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote

you can not increase the s/n by adding noise.

So why are you advocating running all channels at their clip point?

He isn't.

Indeed. We shouldn't misrepresent what George said. George is merely advocating
operating all the channels at 'near' to their clip point. It IS as stupid as Mr
T suggests though.

Graham

[Eeyore]

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Phildo" wrote
"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote

The real world of audio often uses mixers with proper
metering. I can't say I've ever seen a real studio mixer without a
metering bridge!

Strange, Arny claims that 95% of desks don't have
metering. Go figure.

Typical of Phildo's confusion with simple facts.

T talks about "real studio mixer", of which only a tiny percentage of all
mixers are.

Phildo refers my comments, which was based on a percentage of all mixers,
professional grade and not, including those jillions of very small mixers
that one sees all over the place.

The only conflct is in Phildo's mind!

Phildo's grasp on reality is tenuous.

I just discovered that the majority of Behringer's Xenyx and Eurorack range
don't have PFL. Maybe Phildo will stop claiming Behringer kit is professional
now ? I doubt it though.

Graham

[Eeyore]

"Ron(UK)" wrote:

Arny Krueger wrote:

Phildo refers my comments, which was based on a percentage of all mixers,
professional grade and not, including those jillions of very small mixers
that one sees all over the place.

The only conflct is in Phildo's mind!


This argument is getting sillier by the day

Check out how few Behringer mixers have PFL. It startled me.

Graham