"Chris Hornbeck"
"Phil Allison"

** For Christ's sake Chris - do a *real test * instead of posting
ASININE thought experiments with wrong outcomes.

Get a length of insulated wire, connect the ends to pins 2 and 3 of an
XLR, plug it into a mic pre and try the effect of having an open loop,
closed loop and then twisted tightly all along its length when held close
proximity to an AC power transformer.


Exactly right. And if you vary the spacing between the conductors
you'll discover an anomaly in your model.


** Dear Chris - you are a complete ****wit.

Have a nice day.




................. Phil

On Mon, 5 Jul 2004 16:01:24 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:

** Dear Chris - you are a complete ****wit.

Have a nice day.

Seems like people are telling me this all the time lately.

It's been real and it's been fun, but it hasn't been
real fun. Good night.

Chris Hornbeck

In article writes:

"Monte McGuire"...
Actually, it's current that gets induced by a changing magnetic field,


"Phil"
** Wrong - a voltage is induced. The current that flows depends on the
impedances, conductor cross section etc.


"Mike"
********* Horsie Maneuveres - Voltage is never induced. Voltage is
the potential difference between the two ends of a lump of impedance
as a result of the current flowing through the impedances around the
circuit.

This is basic electricity.

** A balanced audio line that is **NOT** twisted is just an induction loop.

********* Simplistic and incorrect conclusion - It's two induction
loops. If they're identical and have identical impedances (including
the distribution of those impedances) voltages resulting from the
induced current will sum to zero at a differential amplifier (which
we, for convenience, call a "balanced input.")

What you're describing (as well as your declaration of an "impedance
balanced source" is true and applicable for a single-wire connection.
But when dealing with common mode conditions, it takes two to tango.
Without two, you can't have common mode because there's nothing with
which to be common.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

Get a length of insulated wire, connect the ends to pins 2 and 3 of an
XLR, plug it into a mic pre and try the effect of having an open loop,
closed loop and then twisted tightly all along its length when held close
proximity to an AC power transformer.

Once again, the Pretentious Pundit of Pro Audio changes the subject
when he's caught in a misconception. This is an excellent
demonstration of the principle of loop area (again, I recommend Steve
Lampen's book) but it doesn't tell you anything about the performance
of a differential amplifier.

Using twisted wire is one technique of reducing the common mode
voltage applied to the inputs of a differential amplifier. However it
does nothing to reduce the common mode voltage that is a function of
the source.

Connecting a loop of wire between the two terminals of a differential
input and inducing current in the wire is the perfect test case, and,
in fact, is a good test of the common mode rejection of the input.
Assuming that the wire is uniform, the voltage drop at each input will
be determined by ONLY the impedance of each input relative to the
amplifier's (internal) reference point. If they're identical, they
will sum to zero and you have complete common mode rejection. If the
impedances of the two inputs are unequal, the voltage drops will be
unequal and you will have some output from the amplifier - less than
complete common mode rejection.

I suggest that YOU try the experiment. But don't make any assumptions
about things being perfect, because they won't be. You have a tendency
to ignore things that get in the way of proof, declaring them
"insignificant." That may be the way it works in product development,
but it's not the way it works in science. It's important to make the
distinction, and it's particularly important when trying to explain
theory to a novice.

Bob Olhsson used to use a tag line to his messages which read
somethign like "In theory, theory and practice are the same. In
practice, they are different." Keep that in mind. You'll be a better
engineer.

I would just ignore the snide remarks and leave his discussion except
that I hate to see someone with the right information be put down with
irrelevant and inaccurate responses, and more important, that the person
asking a legitimate question gets misled if he got disgusted with the in-fighting
and stops reading the thread.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

** A voltage injected into a balanced audio line by external magnetic
fields ( like nearby high AC current cables and transformers) creates a hum
signal in differential mode that the pre-amp *will* amplify - its CMRR has
no effect.

Hi Phil, could you explain this is more detail? I always thought that
a magnetic field induced a current (or voltage) into the two wires of
a mic cable (for example) in equal magnitude and angle. If I
understand correctly, this isn't the case, rather, the hum induces a
current/voltage in one of the wires as a postive going signal, and the
other as a negative going signal. That is, they are equal and
opposite in polarity.

Magnetics begins to get a bit beyond me, but I understand its
importance in what I deal with everyday.

Thanks, Phil.

Chris Deckard
Saint Louis, Mo.

Laurence Payne wrote:

On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 06:33:26 GMT, Logan Shaw
wrote:

So why is it you think that RF can't exist at audible frequencies?

What's the definition of "RF" on your planet? :-)

Here's one possible definition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_frequency

From the text: "The ELF, SLF, ULF, and VLF bands overlap the AF (audio
frequency) spectrum, which is approximately 20–20,000 Hz".

Also, there's a nice chart of how (basically) the entire spectrum is
allocated at http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/allochrt.html . We used
to have a poster of this on the wall at one place I worked. It's a
pretty cool chart. Anyway, the chart shows allocated frequencies
down to 9 kHz, just as the FCC's Table of Frequency Allocations does.
You can find the latter at http://www.fcc.gov/oet/spectrum/ .

Of course, even if these frequencies weren't allocated, this would
not mean that the phenomenon known as "radio" can't happen at those
frequencies. And you can also argue (and I'll agree) that they aren't
the most useful frequencies of the spectrum. But the point is that
RF can exist at audible frequencies.

- Logan

"Logan Shaw"
Laurence Payne wrote:

So why is it you think that RF can't exist at audible frequencies?

What's the definition of "RF" on your planet? :-)

..

Of course, even if these frequencies weren't allocated, this would
not mean that the phenomenon known as "radio" can't happen at those
frequencies. And you can also argue (and I'll agree) that they aren't
the most useful frequencies of the spectrum. But the point is that
RF can exist at audible frequencies.



** However the term "RF" does ***not*** usually refer to such low
frequencies.

The term "RF interference" when used in relation to audio gear refers to
audible signal breakthrough due to nearby transmitters operating on the
broadcast band, short wave bands, the VHF and UHF bands and even microwave
radars.

Interference from signals that are already in the **audio band** is called
just that - audio interference.

The BIG difference is that the latter do not need to be "detected" ( ie
demodulated) to become audible.




.............. Phil

"Mike Rivers"
Phil Allison


"Monte McGuire"...
Actually, it's current that gets induced by a changing magnetic field,

** Wrong - a voltage is induced. The current that flows depends on
the
impedances, conductor cross section etc.


"Mike"


********* Horsie Maneuveres - Voltage is never induced.


** What a pig ignorant damn fool Mike Rivers is.

How does a transformer produce a VOLTAGE on the secondary winding !!!!!!!



Voltage is the potential difference between the two ends of a lump of
impedance
as a result of the current flowing through the impedances around the
circuit.

This is basic electricity.


** Batteries produce a *voltage*, generators produce a *voltage*,
microphones produce a *voltage* etc ......

This is basic fact.



** A balanced audio line that is **NOT** twisted is just an induction
loop.

********* Simplistic and incorrect conclusion - It's two induction
loops.


** What a pig ignorant damn fool Mike Rivers is !!!!

The loop being discussed is the ***ONE*** loop formed by the two audio
lines.

The one that ***IS*** normally twisted inside the cable.




................ Phil

"Mike Rivers"
Phil Allison

Get a length of insulated wire, connect the ends to pins 2 and 3 of
an
XLR, plug it into a mic pre and try the effect of having an open loop,
closed loop and then twisted tightly all along its length when held close
proximity to an AC power transformer.


Once again, the Pretentious Pundit of Pro Audio changes the subject
when he's caught in a misconception.


** More utter, pig ignorant bull**** from the Know Nothing Parrot.


This is an excellent
demonstration of the principle of loop area (again, I recommend Steve
Lampen's book) but it doesn't tell you anything about the performance
of a differential amplifier.

Using twisted wire is one technique of reducing the common mode
voltage applied to the inputs of a differential amplifier.


** The imbecile cannot distinguish common mode from differential mode.


Connecting a loop of wire between the two terminals of a differential
input and inducing current in the wire is the perfect test case, and,
in fact, is a good test of the common mode rejection of the input.


** The induced *voltage* is ***differential*** - like the wanted
signal.



I would just ignore the snide remarks and leave his discussion except
that I hate to see someone with the right information be put down with
irrelevant and inaccurate responses, and more important, that the person
asking a legitimate question gets misled if he got disgusted with the
in-fighting
and stops reading the thread.



** The only "fighting" going on originates from the poisonous keyboard of
Mike Rivers.

The man is nothing but a charlatan hell bent on deceiving people.




.............. Phil

"mr c deckard"

** A voltage injected into a balanced audio line by external magnetic
fields ( like nearby high AC current cables and transformers) creates a
hum
signal in differential mode that the pre-amp *will* amplify - its CMRR
has
no effect.


Hi Phil, could you explain this is more detail?
I always thought that a magnetic field induced a current (or voltage) into
the two wires of
a mic cable (for example) in equal magnitude and angle. If I
understand correctly, this isn't the case, rather, the hum induces a
current/voltage in one of the wires as a postive going signal, and the
other as a negative going signal. That is, they are equal and
opposite in polarity.


** Do the test I suggested with a length of insulated wire, XLR and
pre-amp. Then think how a voltage is created in the coil of a dynamic, mic
sent down the cable to the pre-amp and is amplified. Then realise that the
connecting cable is just an extension of that same coil.

Recall that a dynamic mic hums when placed near an AC power transformer (
except for those with effective, internal hum bucking coils).



............. Phil

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 12:44:00 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:

** Do the test I suggested with a length of insulated wire, XLR and
pre-amp. Then think how a voltage is created in the coil of a dynamic, mic
sent down the cable to the pre-amp and is amplified. Then realise that the
connecting cable is just an extension of that same coil.

Recall that a dynamic mic hums when placed near an AC power transformer (
except for those with effective, internal hum bucking coils).

Then recall how the hum bucking coil works. Perfect example.

(Hint: it's in the same field as the innocent but offending coil).

(What the heck, another hint: to be within the "same" field
means to be within a small-compared-to-wavelength average
distance)

(OK, one more final hint: average. How to be reliably average...)

Chris Hornbeck

Chris Hornbeck wrote:



(Hint:
(OK, one more final hint:


He ain't gonna figure it out; at least not in public.

(entire message quoted to avoid annoying Phil Allison)


In article writes:



"Logan Shaw"
Laurence Payne wrote:

So why is it you think that RF can't exist at audible frequencies?

What's the definition of "RF" on your planet? :-)

.

Of course, even if these frequencies weren't allocated, this would
not mean that the phenomenon known as "radio" can't happen at those
frequencies. And you can also argue (and I'll agree) that they aren't
the most useful frequencies of the spectrum. But the point is that
RF can exist at audible frequencies.



** However the term "RF" does ***not*** usually refer to such low
frequencies.

The term "RF interference" when used in relation to audio gear refers to
audible signal breakthrough due to nearby transmitters operating on the
broadcast band, short wave bands, the VHF and UHF bands and even microwave
radars.

Interference from signals that are already in the **audio band** is called
just that - audio interference.

The BIG difference is that the latter do not need to be "detected" ( ie
demodulated) to become audible.




............. Phil


I would say that you're describing the difference between
electromagnetic interference and acoustical interference.

Would you go away happy (going back several days) with the
substitution of "electromagnetic" for "RF" in the context of my
original message?



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

How does a transformer produce a VOLTAGE on the secondary winding !!!!!!!

The same way a generator does. By a current induced by a magnetic
field.

** Batteries produce a *voltage*, generators produce a *voltage*,
microphones produce a *voltage* etc ......

This is basic fact.

Batteries produce a voltage. This is an electrochemical process.
Generators produce a *current*. This is an electromagnetic process.
Microphones can go either way, depending on the type of microphone.

(the rest of Phil's message snipped due to irrelevance)

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

** The induced *voltage* is ***differential*** - like the wanted
signal.

EVERY voltage is ***differntial*** - by definition, a voltage is a
"potential difference." Without a difference you have no voltage, or
more correctly, you have no way of measuring it.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

** Do the test I suggested with a length of insulated wire, XLR and
pre-amp. Then think how a voltage is created in the coil of a dynamic, mic
sent down the cable to the pre-amp and is amplified. Then realise that the
connecting cable is just an extension of that same coil.

Recall that a dynamic mic hums when placed near an AC power transformer (
except for those with effective, internal hum bucking coils).


Phil is absolutely correct. If you connect the secondary of a
transformer to the input of a mic preamp and connect the primary to an
alternating **current** you will indeed find that AC signal at the
output of the amplifier. If you plug the primary into an AC outlet,
you'll hear hum. If you plug it into a microphone, you'll hear what
the microphone is picking up.

Isn't that the experiment you were describing? The secondary of the
transformer is the loop of wire connected between the input terminals
of the mic preamp, and the primary is the AC power transformer (the
source of an interfering electromagnetic field)?

A transformer doesn't have to have metal laminations and a neat case.
Any two wires sufficiently close together to couple magnetically can
become a transformer.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1089118480k@trad...

(entire message quoted to avoid annoying Phil Allison)


In article writes:



** But the ignorant prick still snips out people's names
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



"Logan Shaw"
Laurence Payne wrote:

So why is it you think that RF can't exist at audible frequencies?

What's the definition of "RF" on your planet? :-)

Of course, even if these frequencies weren't allocated, this would
not mean that the phenomenon known as "radio" can't happen at those
frequencies. And you can also argue (and I'll agree) that they aren't
the most useful frequencies of the spectrum. But the point is that
RF can exist at audible frequencies.



** However the term "RF" does ***not*** usually refer to such low
frequencies.

The term "RF interference" when used in relation to audio gear refers
to
audible signal breakthrough due to nearby transmitters operating on the
broadcast band, short wave bands, the VHF and UHF bands and even
microwave
radars.

Interference from signals that are already in the **audio band** is
called
just that - audio interference.

The BIG difference is that the latter do not need to be "detected" (
ie
demodulated) to become audible.

I would say that you're describing the difference between
electromagnetic interference and acoustical interference.



** Only a complete and utter ****wit would think that. The sort of ****wit
who does not even know what "demodulated" means. Mike Rivers for example.



Would you go away happy (going back several days) with the
substitution of "electromagnetic" for "RF" in the context of my
original message?


** The CMRR of a balanced input does not act to defeat "RF interference" -
but it does act against EM interference which exists in the audio band.




............. Phil

"Mike Rivers"
Phil Allison


********* Horsie Maneuveres - Voltage is never induced.

** What a pig ignorant damn fool Mike Rivers is.

How does a transformer produce a VOLTAGE on the secondary winding
!!!!!!!

The same way a generator does. By a current induced by a magnetic field.


** WRONG !!!!!

A varying magnetic field induces a *VOLTAGE* in a conductor !!!

The rated AC voltage exists between the ends of the transformer's secondary
winding even when no load is attached.



** Batteries produce a *voltage*, generators produce a *voltage*,
microphones produce a *voltage* etc ......

This is basic fact.

Batteries produce a voltage. This is an electrochemical process.

Generators produce a *current*.


** What a complete ****wit Mike Rivers proves himself to be over and over
and over .......

Generators produce an AC ***VOLTAGE*** - there is **no current** flow
until some load is attached and the amount depends on the load.


Microphones can go either way, depending on the type of microphone.


** All microphones produce a **VOLTAGE ** at their outputs.

The output spec is given in "millivolts per Pascal".


How dumb can this Mike Rivers ****** be ??????




.............. Phil

"Mike Rivers"

Phil Allison:


** Do the test I suggested with a length of insulated wire, XLR and
pre-amp. Then think how a voltage is created in the coil of a dynamic,
mic
sent down the cable to the pre-amp and is amplified. Then realise that
the
connecting cable is just an extension of that same coil.

Recall that a dynamic mic hums when placed near an AC power transformer
(
except for those with effective, internal hum bucking coils).


Phil is absolutely correct.


** Snip rest of Mike River's insane crap.

The guy has completely lost the plot.





............... Phil

"Mike Rivers"



** The induced *voltage* is ***differential*** - like the wanted
signal.

EVERY voltage is ***differntial*** - by definition,



** More of Mike Rivers insane snipping and context removal.

What a **desperate fool** he make himself look with every post.

He needs to learn to spell too !!




.............. Phil

Phil, you ask a question many of us have been wondering about with you.
Mike Rivers is not only real, but a very knowledgeable individual who
actually takes time out of his busy schedule to HELP people whenever he can.
Not just here on the newsgroup, but here locally as well as nationally, just
like Scott Dorsey. If I call Mike up and need help, if he's available, he
helps. He never questions my need, nor does he eat me a new asshole in
charges (I'm not saying he's free). He just helps. And when it comes to
his knowledge of equipment and circumstances, he's A Number One.

You are consistently a pain in the butt, however, apparently that's your
good side.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Phil Allison" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rivers"
Phil Allison


********* Horsie Maneuveres - Voltage is never induced.

** What a pig ignorant damn fool Mike Rivers is.

How does a transformer produce a VOLTAGE on the secondary winding
!!!!!!!

The same way a generator does. By a current induced by a magnetic field.


** WRONG !!!!!

A varying magnetic field induces a *VOLTAGE* in a conductor !!!

The rated AC voltage exists between the ends of the transformer's
secondary
winding even when no load is attached.



** Batteries produce a *voltage*, generators produce a *voltage*,
microphones produce a *voltage* etc ......

This is basic fact.

Batteries produce a voltage. This is an electrochemical process.

Generators produce a *current*.


** What a complete ****wit Mike Rivers proves himself to be over and over
and over .......

Generators produce an AC ***VOLTAGE*** - there is **no current**
flow
until some load is attached and the amount depends on the load.


Microphones can go either way, depending on the type of microphone.


** All microphones produce a **VOLTAGE ** at their outputs.

The output spec is given in "millivolts per Pascal".


How dumb can this Mike Rivers ****** be ??????




............. Phil

And if magnetic fields didn't induce current one couldn't walk under high
voltage lines and have a florescent light light up. That seems strange
(light light), but it's true.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Chris Hornbeck" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 5 Jul 2004 15:35:20 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:

** For Christ's sake Chris - do a *real test * instead of posting
ASININE thought experiments with wrong outcomes.

Get a length of insulated wire, connect the ends to pins 2 and 3 of an
XLR, plug it into a mic pre and try the effect of having an open loop,
closed loop and then twisted tightly all along its length when held close
proximity to an AC power transformer.

Exactly right. And if you vary the spacing between the conductors
you'll discover an anomaly in your model.

More fundamentally, magnetic fields induce currents. To discuss
the topic with ordinary mortals, you'll just have to bend your
phrasing to the conventional.

Or as the antique saying goes "Watch your phraseology."

Chris Hornbeck

"Roger W. Norman"


Mike Rivers is not only real, but a very knowledgeable individual ...


** How would YOU know ??





............. Phil

** But the ignorant prick still snips out people's names
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, his client just quotes differently than yours does. You might want to
read the Emily Postnews article in news.announce.newusers.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Oh, I forgot. You are Phil. You have spoken so whatever you say must be
true.

The real question that continues to come up is "how would YOU know". You
know, I have little signs up in my studio like "If you see exposed wiring
don't touch it" and "Idoicy rates right up there with stupidity. If this
applies to you, inform the management". Funny thing is, I was apparently
thinking of you and I didn't even know it at the
time..................................
Get out of my backyard dude. You have no clue and I can say that because
between all of us we've solved more problems in real life situations that
you have had situations by your talk. You want to talk the talk, but you
simply don't walk the walk.

Mike is unreproachable. Doesn't mean he's always right, but you'd never
know that would you?

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Phil Allison" wrote in message
...

"Roger W. Norman"


Mike Rivers is not only real, but a very knowledgeable individual ...


** How would YOU know ??





............ Phil

Go away, Phil. Just go the **** away.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Phil Allison" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rivers"
Phil Allison

Get a length of insulated wire, connect the ends to pins 2 and 3 of
an
XLR, plug it into a mic pre and try the effect of having an open loop,
closed loop and then twisted tightly all along its length when held
close
proximity to an AC power transformer.


Once again, the Pretentious Pundit of Pro Audio changes the subject
when he's caught in a misconception.


** More utter, pig ignorant bull**** from the Know Nothing Parrot.


This is an excellent
demonstration of the principle of loop area (again, I recommend Steve
Lampen's book) but it doesn't tell you anything about the performance
of a differential amplifier.

Using twisted wire is one technique of reducing the common mode
voltage applied to the inputs of a differential amplifier.


** The imbecile cannot distinguish common mode from differential mode.


Connecting a loop of wire between the two terminals of a differential
input and inducing current in the wire is the perfect test case, and,
in fact, is a good test of the common mode rejection of the input.


** The induced *voltage* is ***differential*** - like the wanted
signal.



I would just ignore the snide remarks and leave his discussion except
that I hate to see someone with the right information be put down with
irrelevant and inaccurate responses, and more important, that the person
asking a legitimate question gets misled if he got disgusted with the
in-fighting
and stops reading the thread.



** The only "fighting" going on originates from the poisonous keyboard of
Mike Rivers.

The man is nothing but a charlatan hell bent on deceiving people.




............. Phil

On Wed, 7 Jul 2004 11:02:51 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:

** WRONG !!!!!

A varying magnetic field induces a *VOLTAGE* in a conductor !!!

The rated AC voltage exists between the ends of the transformer's secondary
winding even when no load is attached.

"A paradox, a paradox,
Oh what a lovely paradox,"

Just the sight of a fresh post from you makes me break into song.
Garth and Logan and a few others here generate some insightful
questions, and there are several heavy hitters with interesting
variations on answers, but nobody else brings so much ....
what's the word I'm looking for? Anyway, thanks.

Imagine for an instant that the textbook description were
actually correct. What could you observe to be different from your
model?

Yours in the interest of science,

Chris Hornbeck

Phil Allison wrote:



How dumb can this Mike Rivers ****** be ??????


Congratulations, Phil, you have attracted the attention you seem to be
craving. I wouldn't have even noticed you, but you started a new thread
dissing someone who appears to know what he is talking about. A quick
investigation and it appears you seem to be dissing a lot of people that
seem to know what they are talking about. And your style is really quite
juvenile. One would have to conclude that you, in fact, are the ******.

"Phil Allison" wrote in message
...

How dumb can this Mike Rivers ****** be ??????

Phil, what have you got against Mike Rivers? And I don't mean for that to
be an opportunity for you to reply with: "because he's a dickhead", or
whatever. I mean really... I've seen several threads of late wherein it
seems that you just wait for Mike to post something so that you can pounce.

What gives? Did he outbid you on a project? Sell you a used car that
dropped the tranny two weeks later? Steal your girlfriend in seventh grade?
What?
--


Neil Henderson
Saqqara Records
http://www.saqqararecords.com

In article ,
wrote:

"Phil Allison" wrote in message
...

How dumb can this Mike Rivers ****** be ??????

Phil, what have you got against Mike Rivers? And I don't mean for that to
be an opportunity for you to reply with: "because he's a dickhead", or
whatever. I mean really... I've seen several threads of late wherein it
seems that you just wait for Mike to post something so that you can pounce.

What gives? Did he outbid you on a project? Sell you a used car that
dropped the tranny two weeks later? Steal your girlfriend in seventh grade?
What?
--
Phil is envious of Mike cause Mike can tie his own shoes
George

Sorry, forgot the traditional hint:

It's a trick question, but "nothing" is not correct.

How's that for a Zen paradox, Batman?

Chris Hornbeck

Phil Allison wrote:
** More of Mike Rivers insane snipping and context removal.

What a **desperate fool** he make himself look with every post.

He needs to learn to spell too !!

Once again, we have evidence of one of the fundamental laws of Usenet:
you have incorrectly punctuated your spelling flame. (And I'm not
talking about asterisks.)

- Logan

"Roger W. Norman"
"Phil Allison"


Mike Rivers is not only real, but a very knowledgeable individual ...


** How would YOU know ??


** I see you gave no answer to the question.



........... Phil

"Pete Dimsman"
Phil Allison wrote:



How dumb can this Mike Rivers ****** be ??????


Congratulations, Phil, you have attracted the attention you seem to be
craving. I wouldn't have even noticed you, but you started a new thread
....


** Same old thread on my newsreader.


dissing someone who appears to know what he is talking about.


** The revese is the case.


A quick
investigation and it appears you seem to be dissing a lot of people that
seem to know what they are talking about. And your style is really quite
juvenile. One would have to conclude that you, in fact, are the ******.



** Is you name really "Dim-man" ??




............. Phil

"Phil Allison"

How dumb can this Mike Rivers ****** be ??????

Phil, what have you got against Mike Rivers?


** He is a posturing fake.





............ Phil

"Logan Shaw"
Phil Allison wrote:

** More of Mike Rivers insane snipping and context removal.

What a **desperate fool** he make himself look with every post.

He needs to learn to spell too !!

Once again, we have evidence of one of the fundamental laws of Usenet:
you have incorrectly punctuated your spelling flame. (And I'm not
talking about asterisks.)



** How many wings have you pulled from flies today - Logan ???

Got 'em all going round in circles on your desk?




............. Phil

"Roger W. Norman"
Go away, Phil. Just go the **** away.



** Poor diddums - did I upset one of Mike the Parrot's biggest fans
???




............... Phil

Dear
phil Ponk goes the weasel. bye bye!

For those of you who haven't had to deal with this sort of thing before, this
post is pure Troll, so the best response is none at all. Don't even bother
trying to point out how rude and stupid his posts are because that's just more
ripples in the pond which is all the troll is after.

This kind of troll is not pumping up his own ego by attacking a respected
group member - more like throwing a rock at the center of the ant hill to see
how big a swarm he can get.

On Wed, 7 Jul 2004 11:02:51 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:


"Mike Rivers"
Phil Allison


********* Horsie Maneuveres - Voltage is never induced.

** What a pig ignorant damn fool Mike Rivers is.

How does a transformer produce a VOLTAGE on the secondary winding
!!!!!!!

The same way a generator does. By a current induced by a magnetic field.


** WRONG !!!!!

A varying magnetic field induces a *VOLTAGE* in a conductor !!!

The rated AC voltage exists between the ends of the transformer's secondary
winding even when no load is attached.



** Batteries produce a *voltage*, generators produce a *voltage*,
microphones produce a *voltage* etc ......

This is basic fact.

Batteries produce a voltage. This is an electrochemical process.

Generators produce a *current*.


** What a complete ****wit Mike Rivers proves himself to be over and over
and over .......

Generators produce an AC ***VOLTAGE*** - there is **no current** flow
until some load is attached and the amount depends on the load.


Microphones can go either way, depending on the type of microphone.


** All microphones produce a **VOLTAGE ** at their outputs.

The output spec is given in "millivolts per Pascal".


How dumb can this Mike Rivers ****** be ??????




............. Phil

In article ,
am says...
For those of you who haven't had to deal with this sort of thing before, this
post is pure Troll, so the best response is none at all. Don't even bother
trying to point out how rude and stupid his posts are because that's just more
ripples in the pond which is all the troll is after.

This kind of troll is not pumping up his own ego by attacking a respected
group member - more like throwing a rock at the center of the ant hill to see
how big a swarm he can get.

On Wed, 7 Jul 2004 11:02:51 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:


"Mike Rivers"
Phil Allison


********* Horsie Maneuveres - Voltage is never induced.

** What a pig ignorant damn fool Mike Rivers is.

How does a transformer produce a VOLTAGE on the secondary winding
!!!!!!!

The same way a generator does. By a current induced by a magnetic field.


** WRONG !!!!!

A varying magnetic field induces a *VOLTAGE* in a conductor !!!

The rated AC voltage exists between the ends of the transformer's secondary
winding even when no load is attached.



** Batteries produce a *voltage*, generators produce a *voltage*,
microphones produce a *voltage* etc ......

This is basic fact.

Batteries produce a voltage. This is an electrochemical process.

Generators produce a *current*.


** What a complete ****wit Mike Rivers proves himself to be over and over
and over .......

Generators produce an AC ***VOLTAGE*** - there is **no current** flow


How does a transformer work?

http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae427.cfm

--
I. Care
Address fake until
the spam goes away