"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news 1

It could go either way. Most larger guitar amps are push-pull, so they
could
easily have less nonlinear distortion than a SET.


surprise!!!!
look at the preamp section, dummy.


That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

Shows that Yustabe can't master the intellectual tools required to deal
with
this level of abstraction. Everybody who is surprised, please raise your
hands!


Shows what little you know about tube guitar amps and distortion.
Much of the purposeful distortion comes from the preamp side..




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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
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"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
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"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
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"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
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Tubes distort. The distortion of tube amp that a guitar player
might use is useful for creating music. The distortion an tube
used in a home hi-fi creates, is just distortion. That some
persons like that distortion is their choice.

It is not the same distortion, so please don't compare them.

This reply rather obviously demonstrates the sockpuppet's lack of
understanding of distortion in audio circuits. Note that he's
always run and hide whenever I asked him about his educational
credentials. He knows more about audio than I do because that's
what the voices in his head tell him.

I knw more about what a tube audio amp and a tube guitar amp sound
like.

I'll bet you "knw" more about *everything* than I do, sockpuppet.

LOL!

I know more about 'good sound' than you do.

Just like you know more about using spell-checkers and living in
custom-built houses than I do, eh Yustabe?

LOL!


Just like you know more about living in a POS
house with a crumbling foundation.




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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

Tubes distort. The distortion of tube amp that a guitar player
might use is useful for creating music. The distortion an tube
used in a home hi-fi creates, is just distortion. That some
persons like that distortion is their choice.

It is not the same distortion, so please don't compare them.

This reply rather obviously demonstrates the sockpuppet's lack of
understanding of distortion in audio circuits. Note that he's
always run and hide whenever I asked him about his educational
credentials. He knows more about audio than I do because that's
what the voices in his head tell him.

I knw more about what a tube audio amp and a tube guitar amp sound
like.

I'll bet you "knw" more about *everything* than I do, sockpuppet.

LOL!

I know more about 'good sound' than you do.

Just like you know more about using spell-checkers and living in
custom-built houses than I do, eh Yustabe?

LOL!


Just like you know more about living in a POS
house with a crumbling foundation.




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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

Tubes distort. The distortion of tube amp that a guitar player
might use is useful for creating music. The distortion an tube
used in a home hi-fi creates, is just distortion. That some
persons like that distortion is their choice.

It is not the same distortion, so please don't compare them.

This reply rather obviously demonstrates the sockpuppet's lack of
understanding of distortion in audio circuits. Note that he's
always run and hide whenever I asked him about his educational
credentials. He knows more about audio than I do because that's
what the voices in his head tell him.

I knw more about what a tube audio amp and a tube guitar amp sound
like.

I'll bet you "knw" more about *everything* than I do, sockpuppet.

LOL!

I know more about 'good sound' than you do.

Just like you know more about using spell-checkers and living in
custom-built houses than I do, eh Yustabe?

LOL!


Just like you know more about living in a POS
house with a crumbling foundation.




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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

Tubes distort. The distortion of tube amp that a guitar player
might use is useful for creating music. The distortion an tube
used in a home hi-fi creates, is just distortion. That some
persons like that distortion is their choice.

It is not the same distortion, so please don't compare them.

This reply rather obviously demonstrates the sockpuppet's lack of
understanding of distortion in audio circuits. Note that he's
always run and hide whenever I asked him about his educational
credentials. He knows more about audio than I do because that's
what the voices in his head tell him.

I knw more about what a tube audio amp and a tube guitar amp sound
like.

I'll bet you "knw" more about *everything* than I do, sockpuppet.

LOL!

I know more about 'good sound' than you do.

Just like you know more about using spell-checkers and living in
custom-built houses than I do, eh Yustabe?

LOL!


Just like you know more about living in a POS
house with a crumbling foundation.




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"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:23:32 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:09:15 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

Most guitar palyers would find an audio tube amp, outfitted with
appropriate
inputs, useless.

So do most audiophiles, but that's not the point I was making.
Tubes
distort. The distortion of tube amp that a guitar player might
use
is useful for creating music. The distortion an tube used in a
home
hi-fi creates, is just distortion. That some persons like that
distortion is their choice.

It is not the same distortion, so please don't compare them.

This reply rather obviously demonstrates the sockpuppet's lack of
understanding of distortion in audio circuits. Note that he's always
run and
hid whenever I asked him about his educational credentials. He knows
more
about audio than I do because that's what the voices in his head
tell him.

I knw more about what a tube audio amp and a tube guitar amp sound
like.

Obviously not, since you claim that the distortions are different. The
plain fact is that the distortion mechanisms are identical, although
the guitar amp may well have higher levels (aside from SETs).
--
That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

No, it makes them the same if you overdrive the 'hi fi' amp to the
same degree as guitar amps are normally overdriven. Note that an SET
may exhibit exactly the same effects even if not overdriven!

Then its a different design. Home audio tube amps are not designed that way.
And, guitar amps also overdrive the preamp stage. Home audio tube amps
are not designed that way either.




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"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:23:32 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:09:15 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

Most guitar palyers would find an audio tube amp, outfitted with
appropriate
inputs, useless.

So do most audiophiles, but that's not the point I was making.
Tubes
distort. The distortion of tube amp that a guitar player might
use
is useful for creating music. The distortion an tube used in a
home
hi-fi creates, is just distortion. That some persons like that
distortion is their choice.

It is not the same distortion, so please don't compare them.

This reply rather obviously demonstrates the sockpuppet's lack of
understanding of distortion in audio circuits. Note that he's always
run and
hid whenever I asked him about his educational credentials. He knows
more
about audio than I do because that's what the voices in his head
tell him.

I knw more about what a tube audio amp and a tube guitar amp sound
like.

Obviously not, since you claim that the distortions are different. The
plain fact is that the distortion mechanisms are identical, although
the guitar amp may well have higher levels (aside from SETs).
--
That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

No, it makes them the same if you overdrive the 'hi fi' amp to the
same degree as guitar amps are normally overdriven. Note that an SET
may exhibit exactly the same effects even if not overdriven!

Then its a different design. Home audio tube amps are not designed that way.
And, guitar amps also overdrive the preamp stage. Home audio tube amps
are not designed that way either.




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"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:23:32 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:09:15 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

Most guitar palyers would find an audio tube amp, outfitted with
appropriate
inputs, useless.

So do most audiophiles, but that's not the point I was making.
Tubes
distort. The distortion of tube amp that a guitar player might
use
is useful for creating music. The distortion an tube used in a
home
hi-fi creates, is just distortion. That some persons like that
distortion is their choice.

It is not the same distortion, so please don't compare them.

This reply rather obviously demonstrates the sockpuppet's lack of
understanding of distortion in audio circuits. Note that he's always
run and
hid whenever I asked him about his educational credentials. He knows
more
about audio than I do because that's what the voices in his head
tell him.

I knw more about what a tube audio amp and a tube guitar amp sound
like.

Obviously not, since you claim that the distortions are different. The
plain fact is that the distortion mechanisms are identical, although
the guitar amp may well have higher levels (aside from SETs).
--
That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

No, it makes them the same if you overdrive the 'hi fi' amp to the
same degree as guitar amps are normally overdriven. Note that an SET
may exhibit exactly the same effects even if not overdriven!

Then its a different design. Home audio tube amps are not designed that way.
And, guitar amps also overdrive the preamp stage. Home audio tube amps
are not designed that way either.




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"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:23:32 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:09:15 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

Most guitar palyers would find an audio tube amp, outfitted with
appropriate
inputs, useless.

So do most audiophiles, but that's not the point I was making.
Tubes
distort. The distortion of tube amp that a guitar player might
use
is useful for creating music. The distortion an tube used in a
home
hi-fi creates, is just distortion. That some persons like that
distortion is their choice.

It is not the same distortion, so please don't compare them.

This reply rather obviously demonstrates the sockpuppet's lack of
understanding of distortion in audio circuits. Note that he's always
run and
hid whenever I asked him about his educational credentials. He knows
more
about audio than I do because that's what the voices in his head
tell him.

I knw more about what a tube audio amp and a tube guitar amp sound
like.

Obviously not, since you claim that the distortions are different. The
plain fact is that the distortion mechanisms are identical, although
the guitar amp may well have higher levels (aside from SETs).
--
That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

No, it makes them the same if you overdrive the 'hi fi' amp to the
same degree as guitar amps are normally overdriven. Note that an SET
may exhibit exactly the same effects even if not overdriven!

Then its a different design. Home audio tube amps are not designed that way.
And, guitar amps also overdrive the preamp stage. Home audio tube amps
are not designed that way either.




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"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
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"=(8888)=" wrote in message
...
"Sander deWaal" emitted :

I still have a Sony amp from 1975, but they used VFETS, not
MOSFET's.
If
you
overlook the device construction difference, then I think
Sony
were
the
first to use high power FET's in a power amp. Sony invented
the
VFET,
the
Hitachi power MosFET's came later.

IIRC, Yamaha had an amp around that time (B1 or B2?) with
2SK77
MOSFETS. A giant beast, and those transistors looked like
2N3055s
on
steroids (twice the size of a TO-3) . Cool!

What is the general consensus for the sound of MOSFET amps? I
had
a
Session guitar amp that employed MOSFETs, was very clean but
clinical
sounding vs tube amps.


Like home hi fi amps guitar amps made with tubes generate
Euphonic
distortion, that is distortion that pleases the ear, or at least
the
person
playing a guitar through one.

Tube amps are preferred by many if not most guitar players
because
they
distort in a way that allows them another way to create.

MOSFET's don't distort audibly unless over driven (or badly
designed
or
broken). For other instruments MOSFET would be the more likely
choice.


Generally, tube guitar amp distortion is different from that of an
audio
tube amp.
It is purposefully accentuated.

Which is the point I was making. They do things with distortion that
SS
amps
don't and therefore are useful in helping the guitarist express
himself.


Most guitar palyers would find an audio tube amp, outfitted with
appropriate
inputs, useless.


So do most audiophiles, but that's not the point I was making. Tubes
distort. The distortion of tube amp that a guitar player might use is
useful for creating music. The distortion an tube used in a home hi-fi
creates, is just distortion. That some persons like that distortion is
their choice.


It is not the same distortion, so please don't compare them.


Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have specific characteristics,
one of them is how they clip.

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"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"=(8888)=" wrote in message
...
"Sander deWaal" emitted :

I still have a Sony amp from 1975, but they used VFETS, not
MOSFET's.
If
you
overlook the device construction difference, then I think
Sony
were
the
first to use high power FET's in a power amp. Sony invented
the
VFET,
the
Hitachi power MosFET's came later.

IIRC, Yamaha had an amp around that time (B1 or B2?) with
2SK77
MOSFETS. A giant beast, and those transistors looked like
2N3055s
on
steroids (twice the size of a TO-3) . Cool!

What is the general consensus for the sound of MOSFET amps? I
had
a
Session guitar amp that employed MOSFETs, was very clean but
clinical
sounding vs tube amps.


Like home hi fi amps guitar amps made with tubes generate
Euphonic
distortion, that is distortion that pleases the ear, or at least
the
person
playing a guitar through one.

Tube amps are preferred by many if not most guitar players
because
they
distort in a way that allows them another way to create.

MOSFET's don't distort audibly unless over driven (or badly
designed
or
broken). For other instruments MOSFET would be the more likely
choice.


Generally, tube guitar amp distortion is different from that of an
audio
tube amp.
It is purposefully accentuated.

Which is the point I was making. They do things with distortion that
SS
amps
don't and therefore are useful in helping the guitarist express
himself.


Most guitar palyers would find an audio tube amp, outfitted with
appropriate
inputs, useless.


So do most audiophiles, but that's not the point I was making. Tubes
distort. The distortion of tube amp that a guitar player might use is
useful for creating music. The distortion an tube used in a home hi-fi
creates, is just distortion. That some persons like that distortion is
their choice.


It is not the same distortion, so please don't compare them.


Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have specific characteristics,
one of them is how they clip.

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"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"=(8888)=" wrote in message
...
"Sander deWaal" emitted :

I still have a Sony amp from 1975, but they used VFETS, not
MOSFET's.
If
you
overlook the device construction difference, then I think
Sony
were
the
first to use high power FET's in a power amp. Sony invented
the
VFET,
the
Hitachi power MosFET's came later.

IIRC, Yamaha had an amp around that time (B1 or B2?) with
2SK77
MOSFETS. A giant beast, and those transistors looked like
2N3055s
on
steroids (twice the size of a TO-3) . Cool!

What is the general consensus for the sound of MOSFET amps? I
had
a
Session guitar amp that employed MOSFETs, was very clean but
clinical
sounding vs tube amps.


Like home hi fi amps guitar amps made with tubes generate
Euphonic
distortion, that is distortion that pleases the ear, or at least
the
person
playing a guitar through one.

Tube amps are preferred by many if not most guitar players
because
they
distort in a way that allows them another way to create.

MOSFET's don't distort audibly unless over driven (or badly
designed
or
broken). For other instruments MOSFET would be the more likely
choice.


Generally, tube guitar amp distortion is different from that of an
audio
tube amp.
It is purposefully accentuated.

Which is the point I was making. They do things with distortion that
SS
amps
don't and therefore are useful in helping the guitarist express
himself.


Most guitar palyers would find an audio tube amp, outfitted with
appropriate
inputs, useless.


So do most audiophiles, but that's not the point I was making. Tubes
distort. The distortion of tube amp that a guitar player might use is
useful for creating music. The distortion an tube used in a home hi-fi
creates, is just distortion. That some persons like that distortion is
their choice.


It is not the same distortion, so please don't compare them.


Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have specific characteristics,
one of them is how they clip.

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"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"=(8888)=" wrote in message
...
"Sander deWaal" emitted :

I still have a Sony amp from 1975, but they used VFETS, not
MOSFET's.
If
you
overlook the device construction difference, then I think
Sony
were
the
first to use high power FET's in a power amp. Sony invented
the
VFET,
the
Hitachi power MosFET's came later.

IIRC, Yamaha had an amp around that time (B1 or B2?) with
2SK77
MOSFETS. A giant beast, and those transistors looked like
2N3055s
on
steroids (twice the size of a TO-3) . Cool!

What is the general consensus for the sound of MOSFET amps? I
had
a
Session guitar amp that employed MOSFETs, was very clean but
clinical
sounding vs tube amps.


Like home hi fi amps guitar amps made with tubes generate
Euphonic
distortion, that is distortion that pleases the ear, or at least
the
person
playing a guitar through one.

Tube amps are preferred by many if not most guitar players
because
they
distort in a way that allows them another way to create.

MOSFET's don't distort audibly unless over driven (or badly
designed
or
broken). For other instruments MOSFET would be the more likely
choice.


Generally, tube guitar amp distortion is different from that of an
audio
tube amp.
It is purposefully accentuated.

Which is the point I was making. They do things with distortion that
SS
amps
don't and therefore are useful in helping the guitarist express
himself.


Most guitar palyers would find an audio tube amp, outfitted with
appropriate
inputs, useless.


So do most audiophiles, but that's not the point I was making. Tubes
distort. The distortion of tube amp that a guitar player might use is
useful for creating music. The distortion an tube used in a home hi-fi
creates, is just distortion. That some persons like that distortion is
their choice.


It is not the same distortion, so please don't compare them.


Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have specific characteristics,
one of them is how they clip.

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Newsgroups
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"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"=(8888)=" wrote in message
...
"Sander deWaal" emitted :

I still have a Sony amp from 1975, but they used VFETS,
not
MOSFET's.
If
you
overlook the device construction difference, then I think
Sony
were
the
first to use high power FET's in a power amp. Sony
invented
the
VFET,
the
Hitachi power MosFET's came later.

IIRC, Yamaha had an amp around that time (B1 or B2?) with
2SK77
MOSFETS. A giant beast, and those transistors looked like
2N3055s
on
steroids (twice the size of a TO-3) . Cool!

What is the general consensus for the sound of MOSFET amps?
I
had
a
Session guitar amp that employed MOSFETs, was very clean but
clinical
sounding vs tube amps.


Like home hi fi amps guitar amps made with tubes generate
Euphonic
distortion, that is distortion that pleases the ear, or at
least
the
person
playing a guitar through one.

Tube amps are preferred by many if not most guitar players
because
they
distort in a way that allows them another way to create.

MOSFET's don't distort audibly unless over driven (or badly
designed
or
broken). For other instruments MOSFET would be the more
likely
choice.


Generally, tube guitar amp distortion is different from that of
an
audio
tube amp.
It is purposefully accentuated.

Which is the point I was making. They do things with distortion
that
SS
amps
don't and therefore are useful in helping the guitarist express
himself.


Most guitar palyers would find an audio tube amp, outfitted with
appropriate
inputs, useless.


So do most audiophiles, but that's not the point I was making. Tubes
distort. The distortion of tube amp that a guitar player might use is
useful for creating music. The distortion an tube used in a home
hi-fi
creates, is just distortion. That some persons like that distortion
is
their choice.


It is not the same distortion, so please don't compare them.


Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have specific characteristics,
one of them is how they clip.

first of all, that is not linear, and second of all, there is more
to the amp and its circuitry than just the tubes.
After all, the tubes don't exist in a vacuum!!!

It just shows how naive and simplistic you are.
If one were to play a cd throught an audio tube amp
and a guitar tube amp, iven the same speakers, it would sound
quite different.





----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"=(8888)=" wrote in message
...
"Sander deWaal" emitted :

I still have a Sony amp from 1975, but they used VFETS,
not
MOSFET's.
If
you
overlook the device construction difference, then I think
Sony
were
the
first to use high power FET's in a power amp. Sony
invented
the
VFET,
the
Hitachi power MosFET's came later.

IIRC, Yamaha had an amp around that time (B1 or B2?) with
2SK77
MOSFETS. A giant beast, and those transistors looked like
2N3055s
on
steroids (twice the size of a TO-3) . Cool!

What is the general consensus for the sound of MOSFET amps?
I
had
a
Session guitar amp that employed MOSFETs, was very clean but
clinical
sounding vs tube amps.


Like home hi fi amps guitar amps made with tubes generate
Euphonic
distortion, that is distortion that pleases the ear, or at
least
the
person
playing a guitar through one.

Tube amps are preferred by many if not most guitar players
because
they
distort in a way that allows them another way to create.

MOSFET's don't distort audibly unless over driven (or badly
designed
or
broken). For other instruments MOSFET would be the more
likely
choice.


Generally, tube guitar amp distortion is different from that of
an
audio
tube amp.
It is purposefully accentuated.

Which is the point I was making. They do things with distortion
that
SS
amps
don't and therefore are useful in helping the guitarist express
himself.


Most guitar palyers would find an audio tube amp, outfitted with
appropriate
inputs, useless.


So do most audiophiles, but that's not the point I was making. Tubes
distort. The distortion of tube amp that a guitar player might use is
useful for creating music. The distortion an tube used in a home
hi-fi
creates, is just distortion. That some persons like that distortion
is
their choice.


It is not the same distortion, so please don't compare them.


Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have specific characteristics,
one of them is how they clip.

first of all, that is not linear, and second of all, there is more
to the amp and its circuitry than just the tubes.
After all, the tubes don't exist in a vacuum!!!

It just shows how naive and simplistic you are.
If one were to play a cd throught an audio tube amp
and a guitar tube amp, iven the same speakers, it would sound
quite different.





----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"=(8888)=" wrote in message
...
"Sander deWaal" emitted :

I still have a Sony amp from 1975, but they used VFETS,
not
MOSFET's.
If
you
overlook the device construction difference, then I think
Sony
were
the
first to use high power FET's in a power amp. Sony
invented
the
VFET,
the
Hitachi power MosFET's came later.

IIRC, Yamaha had an amp around that time (B1 or B2?) with
2SK77
MOSFETS. A giant beast, and those transistors looked like
2N3055s
on
steroids (twice the size of a TO-3) . Cool!

What is the general consensus for the sound of MOSFET amps?
I
had
a
Session guitar amp that employed MOSFETs, was very clean but
clinical
sounding vs tube amps.


Like home hi fi amps guitar amps made with tubes generate
Euphonic
distortion, that is distortion that pleases the ear, or at
least
the
person
playing a guitar through one.

Tube amps are preferred by many if not most guitar players
because
they
distort in a way that allows them another way to create.

MOSFET's don't distort audibly unless over driven (or badly
designed
or
broken). For other instruments MOSFET would be the more
likely
choice.


Generally, tube guitar amp distortion is different from that of
an
audio
tube amp.
It is purposefully accentuated.

Which is the point I was making. They do things with distortion
that
SS
amps
don't and therefore are useful in helping the guitarist express
himself.


Most guitar palyers would find an audio tube amp, outfitted with
appropriate
inputs, useless.


So do most audiophiles, but that's not the point I was making. Tubes
distort. The distortion of tube amp that a guitar player might use is
useful for creating music. The distortion an tube used in a home
hi-fi
creates, is just distortion. That some persons like that distortion
is
their choice.


It is not the same distortion, so please don't compare them.


Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have specific characteristics,
one of them is how they clip.

first of all, that is not linear, and second of all, there is more
to the amp and its circuitry than just the tubes.
After all, the tubes don't exist in a vacuum!!!

It just shows how naive and simplistic you are.
If one were to play a cd throught an audio tube amp
and a guitar tube amp, iven the same speakers, it would sound
quite different.





----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
...

"=(8888)=" wrote in message
...
"Sander deWaal" emitted :

I still have a Sony amp from 1975, but they used VFETS,
not
MOSFET's.
If
you
overlook the device construction difference, then I think
Sony
were
the
first to use high power FET's in a power amp. Sony
invented
the
VFET,
the
Hitachi power MosFET's came later.

IIRC, Yamaha had an amp around that time (B1 or B2?) with
2SK77
MOSFETS. A giant beast, and those transistors looked like
2N3055s
on
steroids (twice the size of a TO-3) . Cool!

What is the general consensus for the sound of MOSFET amps?
I
had
a
Session guitar amp that employed MOSFETs, was very clean but
clinical
sounding vs tube amps.


Like home hi fi amps guitar amps made with tubes generate
Euphonic
distortion, that is distortion that pleases the ear, or at
least
the
person
playing a guitar through one.

Tube amps are preferred by many if not most guitar players
because
they
distort in a way that allows them another way to create.

MOSFET's don't distort audibly unless over driven (or badly
designed
or
broken). For other instruments MOSFET would be the more
likely
choice.


Generally, tube guitar amp distortion is different from that of
an
audio
tube amp.
It is purposefully accentuated.

Which is the point I was making. They do things with distortion
that
SS
amps
don't and therefore are useful in helping the guitarist express
himself.


Most guitar palyers would find an audio tube amp, outfitted with
appropriate
inputs, useless.


So do most audiophiles, but that's not the point I was making. Tubes
distort. The distortion of tube amp that a guitar player might use is
useful for creating music. The distortion an tube used in a home
hi-fi
creates, is just distortion. That some persons like that distortion
is
their choice.


It is not the same distortion, so please don't compare them.


Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have specific characteristics,
one of them is how they clip.

first of all, that is not linear, and second of all, there is more
to the amp and its circuitry than just the tubes.
After all, the tubes don't exist in a vacuum!!!

It just shows how naive and simplistic you are.
If one were to play a cd throught an audio tube amp
and a guitar tube amp, iven the same speakers, it would sound
quite different.





----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

"Michael McKelvy" wrote

Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have
specific characteristics, one of them is how they
clip.

"specific characteristics"... What are these “specific”
audible “characteristics” of all tubes? If the amp and
speakers are properly matched audible clipping should
not be a factor. Do you have any empirical experiences
with tubed equipment in you home setup which lead
you to this gross generalization... or is this pure
conjecture?

"Michael McKelvy" wrote

Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have
specific characteristics, one of them is how they
clip.

"specific characteristics"... What are these “specific”
audible “characteristics” of all tubes? If the amp and
speakers are properly matched audible clipping should
not be a factor. Do you have any empirical experiences
with tubed equipment in you home setup which lead
you to this gross generalization... or is this pure
conjecture?

"Michael McKelvy" wrote

Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have
specific characteristics, one of them is how they
clip.

"specific characteristics"... What are these “specific”
audible “characteristics” of all tubes? If the amp and
speakers are properly matched audible clipping should
not be a factor. Do you have any empirical experiences
with tubed equipment in you home setup which lead
you to this gross generalization... or is this pure
conjecture?

"Michael McKelvy" wrote

Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have
specific characteristics, one of them is how they
clip.

"specific characteristics"... What are these “specific”
audible “characteristics” of all tubes? If the amp and
speakers are properly matched audible clipping should
not be a factor. Do you have any empirical experiences
with tubed equipment in you home setup which lead
you to this gross generalization... or is this pure
conjecture?

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:10:43 +0000 (UTC),
(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:58:21 -0600, dave weil
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:49:17 +0000 (UTC),
(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:28:14 -0600, dave weil
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:58:36 +0000 (UTC),
(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:

Obviously not, since you claim that the distortions are different. The
plain fact is that the distortion mechanisms are identical, although
the guitar amp may well have higher levels (aside from SETs).

YOu also don't seem to know what you're talking about, since the
guitar amp will *always* be able to generate more distortion than even
an SET.

No, it won't, if you overdrive a SET (or push-pull) 'hi-fi' amp to the
same degree as a guitar amp is conventionally overdriven.

I disagree. The amp will fry before you get to the level of distortion
possible (and sometimes desirable) with a guitar amp.

You are wrong. No ifs or buts, just plain wrong.

Wrong. Maybe you should have *actually* plugged in some of those
Marshalls.

I have *never* heard any "home hi-fi amp" achieve the same level of
distortion.

Try listening to some Carys...................

I have. Maybe you should try plugging in a guitar.

I'd advise
you to back off at this point, since I worked as an amplifier design
and repair technician in a music shop a long time ago, when Marshall
stacks were cutting edge. Actually, the really cool thing is that they
still are! :-)

Claim to fame - I drank with Billy Connelly when he was only a Humble
Bum. Poor bugger never could play that banjo........................

So? I helped bail Chrissie Hynde out of jail once. Guess that trumps
you.

Nah, being a bail bondsman doesn't count......... :-)

Wrong again, but I'm not counting at this point.

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:10:43 +0000 (UTC),
(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:58:21 -0600, dave weil
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:49:17 +0000 (UTC),
(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:28:14 -0600, dave weil
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:58:36 +0000 (UTC),
(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:

Obviously not, since you claim that the distortions are different. The
plain fact is that the distortion mechanisms are identical, although
the guitar amp may well have higher levels (aside from SETs).

YOu also don't seem to know what you're talking about, since the
guitar amp will *always* be able to generate more distortion than even
an SET.

No, it won't, if you overdrive a SET (or push-pull) 'hi-fi' amp to the
same degree as a guitar amp is conventionally overdriven.

I disagree. The amp will fry before you get to the level of distortion
possible (and sometimes desirable) with a guitar amp.

You are wrong. No ifs or buts, just plain wrong.

Wrong. Maybe you should have *actually* plugged in some of those
Marshalls.

I have *never* heard any "home hi-fi amp" achieve the same level of
distortion.

Try listening to some Carys...................

I have. Maybe you should try plugging in a guitar.

I'd advise
you to back off at this point, since I worked as an amplifier design
and repair technician in a music shop a long time ago, when Marshall
stacks were cutting edge. Actually, the really cool thing is that they
still are! :-)

Claim to fame - I drank with Billy Connelly when he was only a Humble
Bum. Poor bugger never could play that banjo........................

So? I helped bail Chrissie Hynde out of jail once. Guess that trumps
you.

Nah, being a bail bondsman doesn't count......... :-)

Wrong again, but I'm not counting at this point.

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:10:43 +0000 (UTC),
(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:58:21 -0600, dave weil
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:49:17 +0000 (UTC),
(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:28:14 -0600, dave weil
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:58:36 +0000 (UTC),
(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:

Obviously not, since you claim that the distortions are different. The
plain fact is that the distortion mechanisms are identical, although
the guitar amp may well have higher levels (aside from SETs).

YOu also don't seem to know what you're talking about, since the
guitar amp will *always* be able to generate more distortion than even
an SET.

No, it won't, if you overdrive a SET (or push-pull) 'hi-fi' amp to the
same degree as a guitar amp is conventionally overdriven.

I disagree. The amp will fry before you get to the level of distortion
possible (and sometimes desirable) with a guitar amp.

You are wrong. No ifs or buts, just plain wrong.

Wrong. Maybe you should have *actually* plugged in some of those
Marshalls.

I have *never* heard any "home hi-fi amp" achieve the same level of
distortion.

Try listening to some Carys...................

I have. Maybe you should try plugging in a guitar.

I'd advise
you to back off at this point, since I worked as an amplifier design
and repair technician in a music shop a long time ago, when Marshall
stacks were cutting edge. Actually, the really cool thing is that they
still are! :-)

Claim to fame - I drank with Billy Connelly when he was only a Humble
Bum. Poor bugger never could play that banjo........................

So? I helped bail Chrissie Hynde out of jail once. Guess that trumps
you.

Nah, being a bail bondsman doesn't count......... :-)

Wrong again, but I'm not counting at this point.

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:10:43 +0000 (UTC),
(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:58:21 -0600, dave weil
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:49:17 +0000 (UTC),
(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:28:14 -0600, dave weil
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:58:36 +0000 (UTC),
(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:

Obviously not, since you claim that the distortions are different. The
plain fact is that the distortion mechanisms are identical, although
the guitar amp may well have higher levels (aside from SETs).

YOu also don't seem to know what you're talking about, since the
guitar amp will *always* be able to generate more distortion than even
an SET.

No, it won't, if you overdrive a SET (or push-pull) 'hi-fi' amp to the
same degree as a guitar amp is conventionally overdriven.

I disagree. The amp will fry before you get to the level of distortion
possible (and sometimes desirable) with a guitar amp.

You are wrong. No ifs or buts, just plain wrong.

Wrong. Maybe you should have *actually* plugged in some of those
Marshalls.

I have *never* heard any "home hi-fi amp" achieve the same level of
distortion.

Try listening to some Carys...................

I have. Maybe you should try plugging in a guitar.

I'd advise
you to back off at this point, since I worked as an amplifier design
and repair technician in a music shop a long time ago, when Marshall
stacks were cutting edge. Actually, the really cool thing is that they
still are! :-)

Claim to fame - I drank with Billy Connelly when he was only a Humble
Bum. Poor bugger never could play that banjo........................

So? I helped bail Chrissie Hynde out of jail once. Guess that trumps
you.

Nah, being a bail bondsman doesn't count......... :-)

Wrong again, but I'm not counting at this point.

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:26:43 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news

That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

Shows that Yustabe can't master the intellectual tools required to deal with
this level of abstraction. Everybody who is surprised, please raise your
hands!

Shows what little you know about tube guitar amps and distortion.
Much of the purposeful distortion comes from the preamp side..

Yes, and it has the same character as an overdriven output stage.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:26:43 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news

That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

Shows that Yustabe can't master the intellectual tools required to deal with
this level of abstraction. Everybody who is surprised, please raise your
hands!

Shows what little you know about tube guitar amps and distortion.
Much of the purposeful distortion comes from the preamp side..

Yes, and it has the same character as an overdriven output stage.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:26:43 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news

That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

Shows that Yustabe can't master the intellectual tools required to deal with
this level of abstraction. Everybody who is surprised, please raise your
hands!

Shows what little you know about tube guitar amps and distortion.
Much of the purposeful distortion comes from the preamp side..

Yes, and it has the same character as an overdriven output stage.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:26:43 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news

That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

Shows that Yustabe can't master the intellectual tools required to deal with
this level of abstraction. Everybody who is surprised, please raise your
hands!

Shows what little you know about tube guitar amps and distortion.
Much of the purposeful distortion comes from the preamp side..

Yes, and it has the same character as an overdriven output stage.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:26:43 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news

That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

Shows that Yustabe can't master the intellectual tools required to deal with
this level of abstraction. Everybody who is surprised, please raise your
hands!

Shows what little you know about tube guitar amps and distortion.
Much of the purposeful distortion comes from the preamp side..

Yes, and it has the same character as an overdriven output stage,
(guitar or hi-fi amp) with the additional advantage of adjustable
volume to suit the venue. This ain't rocket science!
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:26:43 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news

That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

Shows that Yustabe can't master the intellectual tools required to deal with
this level of abstraction. Everybody who is surprised, please raise your
hands!

Shows what little you know about tube guitar amps and distortion.
Much of the purposeful distortion comes from the preamp side..

Yes, and it has the same character as an overdriven output stage,
(guitar or hi-fi amp) with the additional advantage of adjustable
volume to suit the venue. This ain't rocket science!
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:26:43 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news

That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

Shows that Yustabe can't master the intellectual tools required to deal with
this level of abstraction. Everybody who is surprised, please raise your
hands!

Shows what little you know about tube guitar amps and distortion.
Much of the purposeful distortion comes from the preamp side..

Yes, and it has the same character as an overdriven output stage,
(guitar or hi-fi amp) with the additional advantage of adjustable
volume to suit the venue. This ain't rocket science!
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:26:43 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news

That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

Shows that Yustabe can't master the intellectual tools required to deal with
this level of abstraction. Everybody who is surprised, please raise your
hands!

Shows what little you know about tube guitar amps and distortion.
Much of the purposeful distortion comes from the preamp side..

Yes, and it has the same character as an overdriven output stage,
(guitar or hi-fi amp) with the additional advantage of adjustable
volume to suit the venue. This ain't rocket science!
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:41:38 -0500, "Powell"
wrote:


"Michael McKelvy" wrote

Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have
specific characteristics, one of them is how they
clip.

"specific characteristics"... What are these “specific”
audible “characteristics” of all tubes? If the amp and
speakers are properly matched audible clipping should
not be a factor. Do you have any empirical experiences
with tubed equipment in you home setup which lead
you to this gross generalization... or is this pure
conjecture?

For starters, all tubes are microphonic.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:41:38 -0500, "Powell"
wrote:


"Michael McKelvy" wrote

Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have
specific characteristics, one of them is how they
clip.

"specific characteristics"... What are these “specific”
audible “characteristics” of all tubes? If the amp and
speakers are properly matched audible clipping should
not be a factor. Do you have any empirical experiences
with tubed equipment in you home setup which lead
you to this gross generalization... or is this pure
conjecture?

For starters, all tubes are microphonic.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:41:38 -0500, "Powell"
wrote:


"Michael McKelvy" wrote

Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have
specific characteristics, one of them is how they
clip.

"specific characteristics"... What are these “specific”
audible “characteristics” of all tubes? If the amp and
speakers are properly matched audible clipping should
not be a factor. Do you have any empirical experiences
with tubed equipment in you home setup which lead
you to this gross generalization... or is this pure
conjecture?

For starters, all tubes are microphonic.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:41:38 -0500, "Powell"
wrote:


"Michael McKelvy" wrote

Of course it is. Tubes are tubes and they have
specific characteristics, one of them is how they
clip.

"specific characteristics"... What are these “specific”
audible “characteristics” of all tubes? If the amp and
speakers are properly matched audible clipping should
not be a factor. Do you have any empirical experiences
with tubed equipment in you home setup which lead
you to this gross generalization... or is this pure
conjecture?

For starters, all tubes are microphonic.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news

It could go either way. Most larger guitar amps are push-pull, so they
could
easily have less nonlinear distortion than a SET.

surprise!!!!

look at the preamp section, dummy.

No surprise.

It would take a supremely arrogant fool to think that I don't know how
guitar amps are made and work. Thanks for rising to the occasion, Yustabe.

That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

Shows that Yustabe can't master the intellectual tools required to deal
ith
this level of abstraction. Everybody who is surprised, please raise
your hands!

Shows what little you know about tube guitar amps and distortion.

No way. The distortion in most guitar amps is adjustable. The distortion in
most SETs is "one size fits all".

Much of the purposeful distortion comes from the preamp side..

Key word, "purposeful".

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news

It could go either way. Most larger guitar amps are push-pull, so they
could
easily have less nonlinear distortion than a SET.

surprise!!!!

look at the preamp section, dummy.

No surprise.

It would take a supremely arrogant fool to think that I don't know how
guitar amps are made and work. Thanks for rising to the occasion, Yustabe.

That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

Shows that Yustabe can't master the intellectual tools required to deal
ith
this level of abstraction. Everybody who is surprised, please raise
your hands!

Shows what little you know about tube guitar amps and distortion.

No way. The distortion in most guitar amps is adjustable. The distortion in
most SETs is "one size fits all".

Much of the purposeful distortion comes from the preamp side..

Key word, "purposeful".

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news

It could go either way. Most larger guitar amps are push-pull, so they
could
easily have less nonlinear distortion than a SET.

surprise!!!!

look at the preamp section, dummy.

No surprise.

It would take a supremely arrogant fool to think that I don't know how
guitar amps are made and work. Thanks for rising to the occasion, Yustabe.

That makes them not the same, and makes them sound not the same.

Shows that Yustabe can't master the intellectual tools required to deal
ith
this level of abstraction. Everybody who is surprised, please raise
your hands!

Shows what little you know about tube guitar amps and distortion.

No way. The distortion in most guitar amps is adjustable. The distortion in
most SETs is "one size fits all".

Much of the purposeful distortion comes from the preamp side..

Key word, "purposeful".