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#1
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thin wires
Hi RATs,
I just finished reading Allen Wright's "Cable Cookbook" wherein he espouses the wonderful qualities of *very* thin wiring in everything from interconnects to internal amp wiring to speaker wiring. He recommends using wirewrap wire or very thin foils. Talks about skin effect coming into play even at audio frequencies. I haven't tried any of it as yet. Thoughts, comments? Best regards and Happy New Year to all. Raymond |
#2
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thin wires
Raymond Koonce wrote: Hi RATs, I just finished reading Allen Wright's "Cable Cookbook" wherein he espouses the wonderful qualities of *very* thin wiring in everything from interconnects to internal amp wiring to speaker wiring. He recommends using wirewrap wire or very thin foils. Talks about skin effect coming into play even at audio frequencies. I haven't tried any of it as yet. Thoughts, comments? Yeah. He's a moronic jerk. Graham |
#3
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thin wires
Bret Ludwig wrote: Raymond Koonce wrote: Hi RATs, I just finished reading Allen Wright's "Cable Cookbook" wherein he espouses the wonderful qualities of *very* thin wiring in everything from interconnects to internal amp wiring to speaker wiring. He recommends using wirewrap wire or very thin foils. Talks about skin effect coming into play even at audio frequencies. I haven't tried any of it as yet. Allen has his theories but he's reinventing the concept of Litz wire, essentially. Skin effect IMO is the least of one's worries at 20-20K Hz. Interconnects built like scope cables might make more sense in high impedance interconnects, but low impedance interconnects make even more sense and no interconnect is best of all. A line stage integrated amp with te POWER SUPPLY on a separate chassis makes more sense than a preamp and a power amp. That way you are only bringing DC and signal on board. Now some one will squawk this has its own issues, it does, but different and more soluble ones. Eh ? Can you translate that into English ? Graham |
#4
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thin wires
Eeyore wrote: Raymond Koonce wrote: Hi RATs, I just finished reading Allen Wright's "Cable Cookbook" wherein he espouses the wonderful qualities of *very* thin wiring in everything from interconnects to internal amp wiring to speaker wiring. He recommends using wirewrap wire or very thin foils. Talks about skin effect coming into play even at audio frequencies. I haven't tried any of it as yet. Thoughts, comments? Yeah. He's a moronic jerk. Graham I didn't ask for comments on Allen's personality (I have met him personally and think he's a pretty nice guy). I asked for comments regarding his use of thin wires and foils. Raymond |
#5
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thin wires
Raymond Koonce wrote: Eeyore wrote: Raymond Koonce wrote: Hi RATs, I just finished reading Allen Wright's "Cable Cookbook" wherein he espouses the wonderful qualities of *very* thin wiring in everything from interconnects to internal amp wiring to speaker wiring. He recommends using wirewrap wire or very thin foils. Talks about skin effect coming into play even at audio frequencies. I haven't tried any of it as yet. Thoughts, comments? Yeah. He's a moronic jerk. Graham I didn't ask for comments on Allen's personality (I have met him personally and think he's a pretty nice guy). I asked for comments regarding his use of thin wires and foils. They're relevant to RF frequencies not audio. Are you at all familiar with the equations ? Graham |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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thin wires
I just finished reading Allen Wright's "Cable Cookbook" wherein he espouses the wonderful qualities of *very* thin wiring in everything from interconnects to internal amp wiring to speaker wiring. He recommends using wirewrap wire or very thin foils. Talks about skin effect coming into play even at audio frequencies. I haven't tried any of it as yet. A thicker wire of the same material will still have lower resistance than a thin one, even with skin effect given the same frequencies. Very thin wire in a patch cable won't be as mechanically secure (i.e., will break easier) than the usual 22 AWG wire commonly used for the center conductor. Litz wire, which is essentially stranded wire but with each strand with enamel insulation, would be reasonably durable. That's done to get the skin effect down, for RF work. But there's little point to Litz wire in audio work, just use thicker ordinary wire to get the resistance down. |
#7
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thin wires
Eeyore wrote: Raymond Koonce wrote: Eeyore wrote: Raymond Koonce wrote: Hi RATs, I just finished reading Allen Wright's "Cable Cookbook" wherein he espouses the wonderful qualities of *very* thin wiring in everything from interconnects to internal amp wiring to speaker wiring. He recommends using wirewrap wire or very thin foils. Talks about skin effect coming into play even at audio frequencies. I haven't tried any of it as yet. Thoughts, comments? Yeah. He's a moronic jerk. Graham I didn't ask for comments on Allen's personality (I have met him personally and think he's a pretty nice guy). I asked for comments regarding his use of thin wires and foils. They're relevant to RF frequencies not audio. Are you at all familiar with the equations ? Graham That's what I've always thought, but Allen's writings contradict that, hence my original post. I'm not too "up" on the math, but I do read quite a bit and try to absorb as much as I can. BR, Raymond |
#8
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thin wires
robert casey wrote: I just finished reading Allen Wright's "Cable Cookbook" wherein he espouses the wonderful qualities of *very* thin wiring in everything from interconnects to internal amp wiring to speaker wiring. He recommends using wirewrap wire or very thin foils. Talks about skin effect coming into play even at audio frequencies. I haven't tried any of it as yet. A thicker wire of the same material will still have lower resistance than a thin one, even with skin effect given the same frequencies. Very thin wire in a patch cable won't be as mechanically secure (i.e., will break easier) than the usual 22 AWG wire commonly used for the center conductor. Litz wire, which is essentially stranded wire but with each strand with enamel insulation, would be reasonably durable. That's done to get the skin effect down, for RF work. But there's little point to Litz wire in audio work, just use thicker ordinary wire to get the resistance down. Thnx for your comments Robert. I have usually tried to stay with 22 ga. stranded for my amp wiring. Teflon seems to be a good insulator from my experience, but it is a little tedious to strip. I have thought about wiring an amp with thin magnet wire to see if I could hear a difference. Given my tin ears, I probably won't. Best regards and Happy New Ears, Raymond |
#9
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thin wires
Bret Ludwig wrote: Eeyore wrote: Raymond Koonce wrote: Hi RATs, I just finished reading Allen Wright's "Cable Cookbook" wherein he espouses the wonderful qualities of *very* thin wiring in everything from interconnects to internal amp wiring to speaker wiring. He recommends using wirewrap wire or very thin foils. Talks about skin effect coming into play even at audio frequencies. I haven't tried any of it as yet. Thoughts, comments? Yeah. He's a moronic jerk. Graham And, as MM said of Frank Sinatra's virility..."And I should know!" Ludwig,...... you're a moron ! I guess you believe in magic conductors. Let me tell you, there is no magic but there is science. However the *troo toob beleevers* want to discard the science too and will sign up to any old **** that any old moron makes sound vaguely plausible ( in their addled minds ) by using long and impressive sounding pseudo-scientific words. Graham |
#10
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thin wires
Bret Ludwig wrote: Eeyore wrote: I guess you believe in magic conductors. Let me tell you, there is no magic but there is science. However the *troo toob beleevers* want to discard the science too and will sign up to any old **** that any old moron makes sound vaguely plausible ( in their addled minds ) by using long and impressive sounding pseudo-scientific words. No, I use nothing but regular old Belden or Packard Cable wire personally and recommend it to others. I think Steve Lampen is the best wire man out there and direct to him those who have questions I can't answer. (He works for Belden). I'w aware of Steve. He sounds like a good bloke. I do not endorse Mr. Wright, haven't read him. But there's no reason to attack him personally if you disagree, unless of course he's a complete **** such as Allison or perhaps, if you continue on this path, yourself. I can happily disregard completely ****witted nonsense but it seems you'd prefer to lap it up on account of your poor education. Graham |
#11
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thin wires
Eeyore said:
Ludwig,...... you're a moron ! Bratwig is just being his usual, sweet self. While the proverbial clock is right twice a day, even Bratwig has his moments of lucidity. This isn't one of them, however. I guess you believe in magic conductors. Let me tell you, there is no magic but there is science. However the *troo toob beleevers* want to discard the science too and will sign up to any old **** that any old moron makes sound vaguely plausible ( in their addled minds ) by using long and impressive sounding pseudo-scientific words. There are exceptions. I design both solid state and tube amps, and the design goals are in both cases very different. My preferred cable for internal wiring is Teflon-coated RG174U, it's nice to bundle 16 of them together and still be able to put them through a 1 cm hole ;-) -- - Maggies are an addiction for life. - |
#12
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thin wires
Raymond Koonce wrote: robert casey wrote: I just finished reading Allen Wright's "Cable Cookbook" wherein he espouses the wonderful qualities of *very* thin wiring in everything from interconnects to internal amp wiring to speaker wiring. He recommends using wirewrap wire or very thin foils. Talks about skin effect coming into play even at audio frequencies. I haven't tried any of it as yet. A thicker wire of the same material will still have lower resistance than a thin one, even with skin effect given the same frequencies. Very thin wire in a patch cable won't be as mechanically secure (i.e., will break easier) than the usual 22 AWG wire commonly used for the center conductor. Litz wire, which is essentially stranded wire but with each strand with enamel insulation, would be reasonably durable. That's done to get the skin effect down, for RF work. But there's little point to Litz wire in audio work, just use thicker ordinary wire to get the resistance down. Thnx for your comments Robert. I have usually tried to stay with 22 ga. stranded for my amp wiring. Teflon seems to be a good insulator from my experience, but it is a little tedious to strip. I have thought about wiring an amp with thin magnet wire to see if I could hear a difference. Given my tin ears, I probably won't. Best regards and Happy New Ears, Raymond Hi RATs! 22 AWG silver plated solid copper in Teflon is very nice to listen to in my Audio Dungeon. $2.00/lb at Apache Reclamation. Of course, it doesn't affect the numbers ... and to those who only hear with their spreadsheets, it is utter nonsense Happy New Ears! Al |
#13
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thin wires
"Raymond Koonce" wrote in message
Hi RATs, I just finished reading Allen Wright's "Cable Cookbook" wherein he espouses the wonderful qualities of *very* thin wiring in everything from interconnects to internal amp wiring to speaker wiring. There's nothing special about small diameter wires. They have higher resistance than larger diameter wires made of the same material. High resistance is usualy a bad thing when it comes to cables. He recommends using wirewrap wire or very thin foils. Not a uncommon conception. Often a misconception, but not necessarily so. Talks about skin effect coming into play even at audio frequencies. Here is a factual treatment of the subject of skin effect with application to audio: http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~jcgl/Sc...ect/page1.html I haven't tried any of it as yet. Good, then you have not wasted a lot of time or money. |
#14
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thin wires
"robert casey" wrote in message
ink.net Litz wire, which is essentially stranded wire but with each strand with enamel insulation, would be reasonably durable. That's done to get the skin effect down, for RF work. But there's little point to Litz wire in audio work, just use thicker ordinary wire to get the resistance down. http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~jcgl/Sc...ect/page5.html provides more specifics. The losses in a cable are the results of a number of factors, skin effect being just one of them. Inductance can be a stronger effect. |
#15
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thin wires
tubegarden wrote: 22 AWG silver plated solid copper in Teflon is very nice to listen to Bwahahahahahahha ! May the good Lord preserve us from fools. Graham |
#16
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thin wires
Raymond Koonce wrote: Hi RATs, I just finished reading Allen Wright's "Cable Cookbook" wherein he espouses the wonderful qualities of *very* thin wiring in everything from interconnects to internal amp wiring to speaker wiring. He recommends using wirewrap wire or very thin foils. Talks about skin effect coming into play even at audio frequencies. I haven't tried any of it as yet. Thoughts, comments? Best regards and Happy New Year to all. Raymond Allen is one of the great originals, a founder member with the Herren Stein and Ennemoser, and me, of the "you can't know anything about audio until you hit fifty and start going light on top" club. There is a mechanical property of metals that most of the qualities in a rod is concentrated in the narrow section of the rim. Allen argues that if you flatten this out into a foil, than you aren't energizing the waste through the rest of the diameter. I imagine that the nighsoil engineers ("one size shovel fits all size turds and there is nothing but turds in the world") won't understand this; it goes against their homogenizing instinct. But Allen's Cable book has wielded more influence with more people -- by a factor of hundreds or thousands -- than will ever hear the names of the clowns even now denigratiing him in this thread. That must really burn of Slapdash Kreuger and Poopie Stevenson! However, in my opinion Allen's most important book is The Preamp Cookbook; Allen is the guy who popularized current sources for just about everything throughout the DIY community. In his usual humble style he doesn't even claim credit, merely to be propagating the teachings of his own guru. Allen's a real regular guy. He called me from Germany once and I sighed in satisfaction because I expected him to help me with some design problem I was struggling with. Instead, he said, "You wrote a book about designing cars. So what big tires can I fit to my Opel -- and get them through the TUV?" May all your filaments glow brightly, Raymond -- unless of course they are cold cathode tubes. Andre Jute Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/ "wonderfully well written and reasoned information for the tube audio constructor" John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare "an unbelievably comprehensive web site containing vital gems of wisdom" Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review |
#17
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thin wires
Andre Jute wrote: There is a mechanical property of metals that most of the qualities in a rod is concentrated in the narrow section of the rim. Is that so Jootikins ? I expect that if true, this knowledge must be widely available. How about a cite ? Graham |
#18
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thin wires
The functional illiterate Graham Poopie Stevenson wrote: Andre Jute wrote: There is a mechanical property of metals that most of the qualities in a rod is concentrated in the narrow section of the rim. Is that so Jootikins ? I expect that if true, this knowledge must be widely available. How about a cite ? You mean "a citation". And the plain Anglo-Saxon "reference" has so much more hair on its chest. Here are two references for you to study: 1. Jute: Design and Construction of Special Cars, editions by Batsford, London; Bentley, Boston:; David & Charles, Newton Abbot; etc, discusses the strength of materials in Chapter 5. 2. Timoshenko: The Strength of Materials, several hundred editions in the last hundred years. A reference known to every engineer in the world, except you. Graham The next time you are tempted to be snippy, clown, think twice, remember this moment. You're an embarrassment to real engineers. Andre Jute The trouble with Poopie is not what he doesn't know, but what he knows for certain that isn't true. --- Mark Twain |
#19
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thin wires
"Sander deWaal" wrote in message ... : Eeyore said: : : : Ludwig,...... you're a moron ! : : : Bratwig is just being his usual, sweet self. : While the proverbial clock is right twice a day, even Bratwig has his : moments of lucidity. : : This isn't one of them, however. : : : I guess you believe in magic conductors. Let me tell you, there is no magic but : there is science. However the *troo toob beleevers* want to discard the science : too and will sign up to any old **** that any old moron makes sound vaguely : plausible ( in their addled minds ) by using long and impressive sounding : pseudo-scientific words. : : : There are exceptions. : I design both solid state and tube amps, and the design goals are in : both cases very different. : : My preferred cable for internal wiring is Teflon-coated RG174U, it's : nice to bundle 16 of them together and still be able to put them : through a 1 cm hole ;-) : : -- : : - Maggies are an addiction for life. - 16 RG's bundled, eh ? aha, you're working on a 7.1 amp :-) Rudy detective |
#20
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thin wires
"Ruud Broens" said:
16 RG's bundled, eh ? aha, you're working on a 7.1 amp :-) Shhhhhhhhh........a man gotta earn his daily bread ;-) Rudy detective Happy new year, we'll be spending it far away from computers and firecracker noise. See you in 2007! -- - Maggies are an addiction for life. - |
#21
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thin wires
"tubegarden" wrote in message
oups.com 22 AWG silver plated solid copper in Teflon is very nice to listen to in my Audio Dungeon. $2.00/lb at Apache Reclamation. I'm sure it works. But does the sliver and Teflon sound any different from lower-cost mainstream materials? No! Of course, it doesn't affect the numbers ... and to those who only hear with their spreadsheets, it is utter nonsense In this case it is you who are listening with a spreadsheet - a spreadsheet that lists the bill of materials. |
#22
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thin wires
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
oups.com Here are two references for you to study: 1. Jute: Design and Construction of Special Cars, editions by Batsford, London; Bentley, Boston:; David & Charles, Newton Abbot; etc, discusses the strength of materials in Chapter 5. No such title found by Google anyplace on the web. 2. Timoshenko: The Strength of Materials, several hundred editions in the last hundred years. A reference known to every engineer in the world, except you. A book that really exists. Of course Jute had nothing to do with its writing. |
#23
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thin wires
Arny Krueger wrote: "Andre Jute" wrote Here are two references for you to study: 1. Jute: Design and Construction of Special Cars, editions by Batsford, London; Bentley, Boston:; David & Charles, Newton Abbot; etc, discusses the strength of materials in Chapter 5. No such title found by Google anyplace on the web. 2. Timoshenko: The Strength of Materials, several hundred editions in the last hundred years. A reference known to every engineer in the world, except you. A book that really exists. Of course Jute had nothing to do with its writing. Nor has it anything to do with the subject of the thread. Typical Joot obfuscation. Graham |
#24
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thin wires
Andre Jute wrote: Raymond Koonce wrote: Hi RATs, I just finished reading Allen Wright's "Cable Cookbook" wherein he espouses the wonderful qualities of *very* thin wiring in everything from interconnects to internal amp wiring to speaker wiring. He recommends using wirewrap wire or very thin foils. Talks about skin effect coming into play even at audio frequencies. I haven't tried any of it as yet. Thoughts, comments? Best regards and Happy New Year to all. Raymond Allen is one of the great originals, a founder member with the Herren Stein and Ennemoser, and me, of the "you can't know anything about audio until you hit fifty and start going light on top" club. Well, I guess I can join now (he says baldly at 53). There is a mechanical property of metals that most of the qualities in a rod is concentrated in the narrow section of the rim. Allen argues that if you flatten this out into a foil, than you aren't energizing the waste through the rest of the diameter. As he states in his book. I'm afraid the math he uses for his explanation is beyond me though. snip However, in my opinion Allen's most important book is The Preamp Cookbook; Allen is the guy who popularized current sources for just about everything throughout the DIY community. In his usual humble style he doesn't even claim credit, merely to be propagating the teachings of his own guru. Agreed. I also just finished reading that one. I plan to play around with his current source and regulator ideas on the next amp I build. A huge amount of what he says makes sense. Allen's a real regular guy. snip Agreed. I've met him twice, both times at the European Triode Festival, and I've found him to be a straight-up gentleman. We have discussed one of his ideas (non-audio related) and he plans to visit me in the US to see if we can do some business together. May all your filaments glow brightly, Raymond -- unless of course they are cold cathode tubes. Yours as well Andre. Best regards and Happy New Year. Raymond Andre Jute Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/ "wonderfully well written and reasoned information for the tube audio constructor" John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare "an unbelievably comprehensive web site containing vital gems of wisdom" Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review |
#25
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thin wires
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
oups.com There is a mechanical property of metals that most of the qualities in a rod is concentrated in the narrow section of the rim. Wrong. The properties of a homogenious rod are well, homogenious. There is a mechanical situation about a rod's shape, such that much of the applied stress tends to be concentrated near its outside edge. This means that a tube with a modest wall thickness can be nearly as strong as a rod with the same diameter. However, we are now talking mechanics, not electronics and many have gone far wrong appling mechanical intuition to electronic situations. Allen argues that if you flatten this out into a foil, than you aren't energizing the waste through the rest of the diameter. What did I say about many have gone far wrong appling mechanical intuition to electronic situations? I imagine that the nightsoil engineers ("one size shovel fits all size turds and there is nothing but turds in the world") won't understand this; it goes against their homogenizing instinct. Chidish name-calling and gratuitous fecal references ignored. Consider the source. ;-) |
#26
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thin wires
22 AWG silver plated solid copper in Teflon is very nice to listen to in my Audio Dungeon. $2.00/lb at Apache Reclamation. I'm sure it works. But does the sliver and Teflon sound any different from lower-cost mainstream materials? No! Teflon insulation is good for high temperatures. Soldering iron temperature doesn't melt it. Also teflon won't be bothered by hot tubes. But teflon does nasty things to copper, so they silver plate the copper wire to protect the copper. Also silver solders nicely. Silver plated copper wire would have good skin effect for RF signals, but doesn't mean much at audio frequencies. However, teflon wire insulation tends to be thin, and might not be adequate for B+'s in the hundreds of volts. |
#27
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thin wires
"Sander deWaal" wrote in message ... : "Ruud Broens" said: : : : 16 RG's bundled, eh ? : aha, you're working on a 7.1 amp :-) : : : Shhhhhhhhh........a man gotta earn his daily bread ;-) : : : Rudy : detective : : : Happy new year, we'll be spending it far away from computers and : firecracker noise. : : See you in 2007! : : -- : : - Maggies are an addiction for life. - Gelijk hebbie ;-) Best wishes to you, too, RAT's including l8er Rudy |
#28
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thin wires
Hi RATs! 22 AWG silver plated solid copper in Teflon is very nice to listen to in my Audio Dungeon. $2.00/lb at Apache Reclamation. I have a couple spools of milspec silver coated solid copper (around 22 guage, I think) and it does indeed sound great. I'm not sure if I paid $2 per pound or not. I think it was 50 cents a spool. I've used it on a plethora of stuff. I don't think it's in teflon, though, probably pvc. It does shrink with an iron, so not teflon. The cost per sound ratio is still excellent. Bob H. |
#29
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thin wires
Hi Rats!
The stuff I got surplus is thick Teflon, it doesn't cut so much as flow away from the wiire, so the result of "stripping" with wire cutters is three strands: Teflon bottom and top and wire in the middle. Then I snip off the Teflon tails I don't recall mentioning I think it sounds better the 18 Ga Radio Shack PVC coated wire. I think it may, but, it isn't something I wish to argue with the trolls under the bridge. It is good, high temp, HV (1200V) rated wire in my favorite color, white. It is also soft and easlily pliable, like butter. I have used it for nearly a decade. A 5000' spool of several ends combined to fill it was about $40. I am not yet halfway through it, and slowing down annually Doesn't it seem odd that some people just like to argue and insult, no matter what the topic? They are everywhere, but, they don't get invited out to lunch Could it be that is because ... Happy Ears! Al |
#30
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thin wires
"Bob H." wrote: Hi RATs! 22 AWG silver plated solid copper in Teflon is very nice to listen to in my Audio Dungeon. $2.00/lb at Apache Reclamation. I have a couple spools of milspec silver coated solid copper (around 22 guage, I think) and it does indeed sound great. I'm not sure if I paid $2 per pound or not. I think it was 50 cents a spool. I've used it on a plethora of stuff. I don't think it's in teflon, though, probably pvc. It does shrink with an iron, so not teflon. The cost per sound ratio is still excellent. So how would you describe the sound compared to 'inferior' wire ? Graham |
#31
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thin wires
tubegarden wrote:
Hi Rats! The stuff I got surplus is thick Teflon, it doesn't cut so much as flow away from the wiire, so the result of "stripping" with wire cutters is three strands: Teflon bottom and top and wire in the middle. Then I snip off the Teflon tails I don't recall mentioning I think it sounds better the 18 Ga Radio Shack PVC coated wire. I think it may, but, it isn't something I wish to argue with the trolls under the bridge. It is good, high temp, HV (1200V) rated wire in my favorite color, white. It is also soft and easlily pliable, like butter. I have used it for nearly a decade. A 5000' spool of several ends combined to fill it was about $40. I am not yet halfway through it, and slowing down annually Doesn't it seem odd that some people just like to argue and insult, no matter what the topic? They are everywhere, but, they don't get invited out to lunch Could it be that is because ... Happy Ears! Al Hi Al, It does seem very strange that some folks can turn a perfectly legitimate thread into a stream of insults. Reminds me of monkeys throwing **** at each other. Keep your ears happy, no matter what kind of wire you use. All the best, Raymond |
#32
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thin wires
Arny "Slapdash" Krueger wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message oups.com Here are two references for you to study: 1. Jute: Design and Construction of Special Cars, editions by Batsford, London; Bentley, Boston:; David & Charles, Newton Abbot; etc, discusses the strength of materials in Chapter 5. No such title found by Google anyplace on the web. I'm very surprised to hear that, Slapdash. Even after years of pointing out almost daily that you are an incompetent, I never dreamed you'd be quite so illiterate and useless that you can't even find a book on Google. Google reports 'about 152 for "DESIGNING AND BUILDING SPECIAL CARS" +Jute. (0.41 seconds)': http://www.google.com/search?num=100...&b tnG=Search Amazon alone offers 28 references to this book: http://www.google.com/search?num=100... &btnG=Search More of my books here for those more literate than Slapdash Krueger and his organ grinder's monkey, Graham "Poopie" Stevenson; technical and instructional texts start about halfway down the page: http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/T...re%20Jute.html 2. Timoshenko: The Strength of Materials, several hundred editions in the last hundred years. A reference known to every engineer in the world, except you. A book that really exists. Of course Jute had nothing to do with its writing. And the relevance of that is, Krueger? If people could give only references to books and articles they have written themselves, you could give none and you'd have to shut up for good. Bring on the day. Andre Jute This is the season for exposing heathen hypocrites skulking in the pews. |
#33
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thin wires
Eeyore wrote: Arny Krueger wrote: "Andre Jute" wrote Here are two references for you to study: [snip] 2. Timoshenko: The Strength of Materials, several hundred editions in the last hundred years. A reference known to every engineer in the world, except you. A book that really exists. Of course Jute had nothing to do with its writing. Nor has it anything to do with the subject of the thread. Typical Joot obfuscation. You must have an attention span deficit, Poopie. It is an answer to a question you asked me: ***** Andre Jute wrote: There is a mechanical property of metals that most of the qualities in a rod is concentrated in the narrow section of the rim. Is that so Jootikins ? I expect that if true, this knowledge must be widely available. How about a cite ? You mean "a citation". And the plain Anglo-Saxon "reference" has so much more hair on its chest. Here are two references for you to study: 1. Jute: Designing and Building Special Cars, editions by Batsford, London; Bentley, Boston:; David & Charles, Newton Abbot; etc, discusses the strength of materials in Chapter 5. 2. Timoshenko: The Strength of Materials, several hundred editions in the last hundred years. A reference known to every engineer in the world, except you. Graham The next time you are tempted to be snippy, clown, think twice, remember this moment. You're an embarrassment to real engineers. Andre Jute The trouble with Poopie is not what he doesn't know, but what he knows for certain that isn't true. --- Mark Twain ******** Can you even remember your name from day to day, Poopie? Graham Unsigned out of contempt for a moron. |
#34
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thin wires
"robert casey" wrote in message
ink.net 22 AWG silver plated solid copper in Teflon is very nice to listen to in my Audio Dungeon. $2.00/lb at Apache Reclamation. I'm sure it works. But does the sliver and Teflon sound any different from lower-cost mainstream materials? No! Teflon insulation is good for high temperatures. Soldering iron temperature doesn't melt it. So what? Not bothering wire insulation when soldering it is part of the skill of soldering. Also teflon won't be bothered by hot tubes. Readily addressed by proper lead dress. But teflon does nasty things to copper, so they silver plate the copper wire to protect the copper. Also silver solders nicely. So does many other common base-metal coatings. Silver plated copper wire would have good skin effect for RF signals, but doesn't mean much at audio frequencies. Right, it doesn't mean much for audio. However, teflon wire insulation tends to be thin, and might not be adequate for B+'s in the hundreds of volts. HV teflon insulated wire is readily available. |
#35
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thin wires
Arny Krueger wrote: "Andre Jute" wrote in message oups.com There is a mechanical property of metals that most of the qualities in a rod is concentrated in the narrow section of the rim. Wrong. The properties of a homogenious rod are well, homogenious. I think you are being hasty in declaring him wrong. He may very well be alluding to the radius of gyration. There is a mechanical situation about a rod's shape, such that much of the applied stress tends to be concentrated near its outside edge. This means that a tube with a modest wall thickness can be nearly as strong as a rod with the same diameter. The moment of intertia gives resistance to bending. Whether the beam is a solid rod or a hollow tube, if their moments of intertia are the same, their resistance to bending will be the same. However, they will have different torsional rigidity with the tube having greater torsional rigidity and a higher radius of gyration. (I am not a mechanical engineer. It would be good if a mechancial or civil engineer chimed in here.) However, we are now talking mechanics, not electronics and many have gone far wrong appling mechanical intuition to electronic situations. Allen argues that if you flatten this out into a foil, than you aren't energizing the waste through the rest of the diameter. What did I say about many have gone far wrong appling mechanical intuition to electronic situations? Do you not see the relation between this mechanical system and the transmission of microwaves through a tubular conductor? I am unfamiliar with Allen's work. Still, I find analogs between mechanical and electrical systems interesting. Joe |
#36
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thin wires
Eeyore wrote: So how would you describe the sound compared to 'inferior' wire ? Graham The gist of my post is that I got great wire at a very cheap price, so it sounds really great. The vast majority of wire in tube amps is magnet wire, so what's the point of debating reasonabley built hookup wire quality, truthfully? It is a couple of feet at most, for both channels. Bob H. |
#37
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thin wires
"Joseph Meditz" wrote in message
ups.com Arny Krueger wrote: "Andre Jute" wrote in message oups.com There is a mechanical property of metals that most of the qualities in a rod is concentrated in the narrow section of the rim. Wrong. The properties of a homogenious rod are well, homogenious. However, we are now talking mechanics, not electronics and many have gone far wrong appling mechanical intuition to electronic situations. Allen argues that if you flatten this out into a foil, than you aren't energizing the waste through the rest of the diameter. What did I say about many have gone far wrong appling mechanical intuition to electronic situations? Do you not see the relation between this mechanical system and the transmission of microwaves through a tubular conductor? News flash for you champ: This is a forum about audio, not microwaves. |
#38
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thin wires
Arny Krueger wrote: News flash for you champ: This is a forum about audio, not microwaves. Hi RATs! Audio, sweet Audio. The air itself dances and sings and I just lie here and grin. The droids measure this and that and declare bankruptcy, daily. I think I hear a fine piano trio in a good hall playing a piece they really love. It ain't arguments we see on this NG, it is simple boredom. Some of us manage to fool ourselves into being entertained. Some don't. Screw 'em. Life ain't fair ... Music is for lovers 8*D Happy Ears! Al |
#39
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thin wires
Arny Krueger wrote: "Joseph Meditz" wrote in message ups.com Arny Krueger wrote: "Andre Jute" wrote in message oups.com There is a mechanical property of metals that most of the qualities in a rod is concentrated in the narrow section of the rim. Wrong. The properties of a homogenious rod are well, homogenious. However, we are now talking mechanics, not electronics and many have gone far wrong appling mechanical intuition to electronic situations. Allen argues that if you flatten this out into a foil, than you aren't energizing the waste through the rest of the diameter. What did I say about many have gone far wrong appling mechanical intuition to electronic situations? Do you not see the relation between this mechanical system and the transmission of microwaves through a tubular conductor? " News flash for you champ: This is a forum about audio, not microwaves." News flash for you champ: This is a forum about wires. |
#40
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thin wires
Joseph Meditz wrote: Arny Krueger wrote: "Joseph Meditz" wrote in message ups.com Arny Krueger wrote: "Andre Jute" wrote in message oups.com There is a mechanical property of metals that most of the qualities in a rod is concentrated in the narrow section of the rim. Wrong. The properties of a homogenious rod are well, homogenious. However, we are now talking mechanics, not electronics and many have gone far wrong appling mechanical intuition to electronic situations. Allen argues that if you flatten this out into a foil, than you aren't energizing the waste through the rest of the diameter. What did I say about many have gone far wrong appling mechanical intuition to electronic situations? Do you not see the relation between this mechanical system and the transmission of microwaves through a tubular conductor? " News flash for you champ: This is a forum about audio, not microwaves." News flash for you champ: This is a forum about wires. And their performance at *audio* frequencies. Graham |
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