wrote in message
...
"Phil Allison" wrote in
:



It simply a representation of reality.


** The frequency domain does not exist - it is a mathematical
fiction.

The two statements, yours and mine, and not contradictory.
** The actual words you posted we

"It simply a representation of reality. I have no problem with
reality."

** The contradiction is clear.


There is no contradiction in my statements either.

** Go waste somebody else's time - dickead.



Now Mr Frog, if you can do no better that to continually snip
virtually my entire, carefully worded post out and merely post a
dopey nit pick
- then kindly got get rooted.

There was nothing else to which I wished to reply.


** Good - now you have no case left you will give up on your
fool's quest.





.......... Phil

" wrote:

Patrick Turner wrote in
:

nd I like to get it low BEFORE adding some NFB to reduce it futher.
With class A designs, there is usually very little harmonics
other than the 2nd or 3rd in the class A part of the working range
used for listening.
I prefer that the thd up to the first 10 watts is mainly all 2H, and
less than

1%, before nfb is added, and when it is, you just need enough
to reduce the Ro of ther amp to suit the speakers.
This usually means a total of about 20 dB for pentode amps, 15 db for
UL, and 12 dB for triode amps, but feel free to experiment.

But now the 'mainly 2H' is distributed (albeit at lower total levels) in
higher harmonics. Which one sounds better, that is what is important?

.... and would both sound better or worse than a super high open loop gain
monster with high global NFB? Critical listeners seem to be saying , yes.


There have been well done articles twice in Wireless World and later
in Electronics World which WW became over the last 20 years,
and in them the effects of various amounts of NFB were measured using amps
set up with a deliberately known amount of THD.

The conclusions indicated that if the thd was 1% or less of 2H,
then a mild amount of NFB, say 12 dB, which is typically used in
many tube amps, the harmonic spectra did include 3H, where there was none
before,
but the amount was trifling, and the 2H was reduced 12 dB by the NFB.
If however, the 2H was 10%, things worked out very much worse.

0.5% of 2H at loud sound levels, with a declining amount at lower levels
doesn't
seem to be very noticeable.
Try reading RDH4, where they did some tests.
but if you had 0.5% made up of 2,3,4,5,6,7,8H, but still the same total was
0.5%,
then perhaps things wouldn't sound so well.

THD is a way of describing the transfer curve, or linearity curve of an amp.

But wherever you have THD, you have some generated IMD when two or
more tones are present.
With music there are hundreds of frequencies present, and they
interact with each other to make a potpourie of other frequencies, many of
which
are not related harmonically to the main tones of the music, and so
its the IMD that wrecks the music much more than the THD itself.

I have a free mind about audio amps, and after hearing 300B amps with no added
FB
and hearing some good SS amps, then I can't suggest what is ultimately better
or worse.

Its an interesting pastime to build this gear, but I don't believe anyone,
including myself, has some monopoly on providing the best sound,
or has the only set of secret info which is guraranteed to give the best
results if applied.

What you hear is what you get.

Patrick Turner.

Patrick Turner wrote in
:


There have been well done articles twice in Wireless World and later
in Electronics World which WW became over the last 20 years,
and in them the effects of various amounts of NFB were measured using
amps set up with a deliberately known amount of THD.

The conclusions indicated that if the thd was 1% or less of 2H,
then a mild amount of NFB, say 12 dB, which is typically used in
many tube amps, the harmonic spectra did include 3H, where there was
none before,
but the amount was trifling,

and still fairly innocuous I'll bet

and the 2H was reduced 12 dB by the NFB.
If however, the 2H was 10%, things worked out very much worse.

uhuh


0.5% of 2H at loud sound levels, with a declining amount at lower
levels doesn't
seem to be very noticeable.

yes, that is my experience as well.


Try reading RDH4, where they did some tests.

I have.

but if you had 0.5% made up of 2,3,4,5,6,7,8H, but still the same
total was 0.5%,
then perhaps things wouldn't sound so well.


Yes, this is it. Going back to the thesis, I am sure this would get a bad
T.A.D.



THD is a way of describing the transfer curve, or linearity curve of
an amp.


but maybe it doesn't go far enough, or rather, is not sufficient to predict
the 'quality' of the amp


But wherever you have THD, you have some generated IMD when two or
more tones are present.
With music there are hundreds of frequencies present, and they
interact with each other to make a potpourie of other frequencies,
many of which
are not related harmonically to the main tones of the music, and so
its the IMD that wrecks the music much more than the THD itself.


Yes


I have a free mind about audio amps, and after hearing 300B amps with
no added FB
and hearing some good SS amps, then I can't suggest what is ultimately
better or worse.

Its an interesting pastime to build this gear, but I don't believe
anyone, including myself, has some monopoly on providing the best
sound, or has the only set of secret info which is guraranteed to give
the best results if applied.

What you hear is what you get.


...and that's the point I guess.

"Phil Allison" wrote in message
...

"jim" wrote in message


I keep saying it and somebody, one day, will take some notice........
sound
and electronics are only slightly related .......


** But much more closely related to each other than anything a pommy
cretin called "jim" has ever said is related to the truth.




............. Phil


You are probably right, Alison ...... I am British, wrong, closely related
to each other and mentally disabled... Where does 'Pommy' come from ? I
cannot see the truth.. **** .....
I'll go away and think about sound and electronics. I'm sure there is a
link, somewhere... Any help would be much appreciated.
kind regards
jim