[Andre Jute]

Sander, when I grow up, can I be just like you? I especially like your
idea of humility:
my 6 Maggies (5 m^2) are enough for my humble needs.

Now that's what I call stacked!

Andre "Just my karma" Jute


Sander deWaal wrote:
Andre Jute said:


If that is what Dogface is trying to say, that the ERA is an
economical taste of electrostats for those who cannot afford the
purchase and upkeep of Quad electrostats (or Maggies, eh Sander?),
then the answer is that those people should instead, for a few hundred
dollars, buy from STAX their cheapest model of electrostatic
headphones for around 400USD delivered anywhere in the world. Those
with more money should buy used Quad.


While this may be too subtle for our resident moron K9, the
differences between Maggies and Quads are huge.
However, the one thing they have in common is the bipolar character,
which places some demands on placement and treatment of the room.

Second-hand Maggies are not very expensive, one can find pairs of MG1C
and even MG1.2 for about 300......600 euro overhere.

There's always a drawback.
The problem with older Maggies is that the wires come off the foil,
causing buzzing noises and in extreme cases even broken wires.
One can buy repair kits direct from Magnepan (or Twinstatic Audio if
you're in W. Europe), or cobble together something oneself from the
hardware store.
All one needs is the right gauge of aluminium wire and the right glue.

On the Magnepan Users Group website it is explained in detail how to
repair and tweak older Maggies until they're better than new:
http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/

While this may be a slight problem, refurbishing Quads is quite a
different story.
It can be done, of course, but it's a lot harder than refurbishing
Maggies.
Second-hand Quads keep up their value just well, here in Holland a
nice pair of 63s will set you back some 1500 euro.
A refurbishment by the Quad distributor will cost about the same.


And then there are the Ueber-stats, the Apogees.
They also have their problems, but they can be repaired as well with
very good result.
However, be prepared to fork over a significant amount to obtain a
pair, e.g. Scintillas will be around 6000 euro or more if refurbished.

The main difference between Maggies and Apogees is that the latter
will not crumble under any kind of music or amplifier power, they will
make your ears bleed if necessary.

I don't need that, my 6 Maggies (5 m^2) are enough for my humble
needs.

--

- Maggies are an addiction for life. -

[Andre Jute]

Andre Jute wrote:
b) that the respondent offering an unmeasured opinion is a known-good
judge with the respect of the community (which on electrostats on RAT
means Allison, Turner and Jute, not some anonymous dogface who can't
even spell)

Of course that should read "Allison, de Waal, Jute and Turner, in
alphabetical order". It was only envy that made me leave off Sander!
G

Andre Jute
Green


Andre Jute wrote:
bassett wrote: to "Fun Tyme":

But you come along and run your mouth to defend the undefendable , The
highly self taught experts, who was completely stuffed with the consept
of joining part "A" to part "B" and so on.. He [Parick Turner] and his little
friend Jute, another self confessed expert with no formal training ,

If you know so much more than we do, Dogface, now is your chance to
prove us wrong by argument rather than abuse.

go
on about measurements, which don't really mean ****,

That's true when both these conditions are first true:
a) that we are speaking about some known-good product from a known-
good maker (not a novelty from some unknown maker)
AND
b) that the respondent offering an unmeasured opinion is a known-good
judge with the respect of the community (which on electrostats on RAT
means Allison, Turner and Jute, not some anonymous dogface who can't
even spell)

when you consider
it's a kit with all the components, which have been tested over time, and
are known to give a good result, regardless of being tested, So really
it's a pointless exercise, when the results have no connection with the
end result of a kit. or to put in terms your limited intellect will
understand. If the things are put together correctly, they will give the
result, there intended to give.

In plain English, what you just said, "bassett", is that the ERA ESL-
IIIB is designed to give a poor result and does give a poor result. Is
that what you intended to say, Dogface? (I'm doing you a favour and
ignoring some other ludicrous inconsistencies in the paragraph above,
and just concentrating on trying to find out if you are really as
stupid as you sound.)

the
Dynamic duo [Turner and Jute] need all the help they can get

Of course we need all the help we can get. That's because we're not
thick enough, as you are, to believe we know everything worth knowing.
That is why Patrick approached the EERA representative who, probably
not knowing the answers, tried to blow smoke over him, with
predictable results.

Note that I have never heard or even seen the ERA ESL-IIIB, nor ever
visited the maker's netsite. But I have considerable experience with
Quad electrostats, and with trying to make a cheaper electrostats, so
that I broadly know what is possible and what is not.

Clearly, if ERA do not set their sights too high and say so, "bassett"
is right: the ERA delivers as promised, and isn't much chop except for
those with low standards. If Patrick has reported correctly that ERA
claim results at the Quad level, then I would on the face of it
already doubt the possibility simply on the grounds of the reported
numbers relating to their transformer (same problem Patrick has with
the ERA speaker, that the laws of physics are not only immutable but
are never at the service of marketeers; the competence of the
transformer design for an electrostat makes or breaks or the finished
article). I further note that everyone accepts Patrick's measurements
as near enough correct; I do too.

Of course, just to troll these murky waters for those with a sense of
humour, viewed laterally, the less than pleasing results Patrick
measured proves "bassett's" point, that Patrick is expecting too much
from a kit, that the ERA kit what it is, and delivers what it
delivers, and it is a waste of time to expect better. (Is that what
you're trying to say, Dogface?)

If that is what Dogface is trying to say, that the ERA is an
economical taste of electrostats for those who cannot afford the
purchase and upkeep of Quad electrostats (or Maggies, eh Sander?),
then the answer is that those people should instead, for a few hundred
dollars, buy from STAX their cheapest model of electrostatic
headphones for around 400USD delivered anywhere in the world. Those
with more money should buy used Quad.

I have one pair of Quad ESL63 I bought second-hand at about 10 years
old for a thousand Irish pounds or about USD1600 -- it was no rare
bargain; I bought them from the official Irish importer, comptete with
a guarantee. I've owned them another 15 years. In that time I spent
another 80 punt or 130USD, say, on parts. They're now worth about
3000USD sold locally, and more if one were willing to ship them. So
they have cost me nothing. So the question of the value of an ERA kit
is defined by a) the pleasure of achievement in building something
yourself and b) how much cheaper the ERA kit is than a used set of
Quad ESL-63 to compensate for the ERA not being anywhere near as good
as a Quad.

HTH you put your brain in gear, Dogface.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site
containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review

[Sander deWaal]

Andre Jute said:

Andre Jute wrote:
b) that the respondent offering an unmeasured opinion is a known-good
judge with the respect of the community (which on electrostats on RAT
means Allison, Turner and Jute, not some anonymous dogface who can't
even spell)

Of course that should read "Allison, de Waal, Jute and Turner, in
alphabetical order". It was only envy that made me leave off Sander!
G

Andre Jute
Green


Oh, I'm not an expert in electrostatic speakers at all, not even in
magnetostats.

I know a little about amplifiers, and almost enough about speakers to
get myself into trouble every time. ;-)

--

- Maggies are an addiction for life. -