[Gary Eickmeier]

Just recorded a guitar solo concert. But like many live concerts it was not
live. It was an electric guitar, so we listened to it on speakers. My
approach was to put a single mike near the guitar, then a stereo pair facing
the audience, then capture the house sound off the board to get the really
close-up pick sound. Mix it all together and you have a new audio event -
very similar to the live event, but more in stereo because I will image the
guitar in center and have stereo audience ambience. That's the plan anyway.


--
Gary Eickmeier

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Sun, 22 Jun 2014 03:16:56 -0400, "Gary Eickmeier"
wrote:

Just recorded a guitar solo concert. But like many live concerts it was not
live. It was an electric guitar, so we listened to it on speakers. My
approach was to put a single mike near the guitar, then a stereo pair facing
the audience, then capture the house sound off the board to get the really
close-up pick sound. Mix it all together and you have a new audio event -
very similar to the live event, but more in stereo because I will image the
guitar in center and have stereo audience ambience. That's the plan anyway.

What makes you think it was not live? And clearly the sound the player
wanted the audience to hear was the sound from the speakers, not the
direct sound from the guitar.

If you want a full stereo recording, you mike it as a stereo pair (of
some kind) at a reasonable distance from the stage. To do that it
helps to know the venue, so you can balance image, reverb, audience
all against the critical distance of the room.

d

[Neil Gould]

Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Just recorded a guitar solo concert. But like many live concerts it
was not live. It was an electric guitar, so we listened to it on
speakers. My approach was to put a single mike near the guitar, then
a stereo pair facing the audience, then capture the house sound off
the board to get the really close-up pick sound. Mix it all together
and you have a new audio event - very similar to the live event, but
more in stereo because I will image the guitar in center and have
stereo audience ambience. That's the plan anyway.

I have no idea what you mean by the event not being "live", since there will
be a live performer in a room full of people. An electric guitar and amp
combination is a musical instrument. There may be no reason to use a more
elaborate mic arrangement than for an acoustic event, unless part of the
presentation includes some kind of surround experience with multiple
speakers placed around the room.
--
best regards,

Neil

[Gary Eickmeier]

"Neil Gould" wrote in message
...
Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Just recorded a guitar solo concert. But like many live concerts it
was not live. It was an electric guitar, so we listened to it on
speakers. My approach was to put a single mike near the guitar, then
a stereo pair facing the audience, then capture the house sound off
the board to get the really close-up pick sound. Mix it all together
and you have a new audio event - very similar to the live event, but
more in stereo because I will image the guitar in center and have
stereo audience ambience. That's the plan anyway.

I have no idea what you mean by the event not being "live", since there
will
be a live performer in a room full of people. An electric guitar and amp
combination is a musical instrument. There may be no reason to use a more
elaborate mic arrangement than for an acoustic event, unless part of the
presentation includes some kind of surround experience with multiple
speakers placed around the room.
--
best regards,

Neil

Good comments. All I meant was that whenever an event is amplified it is
always done in monophonic feeds, no matter where the house speakers are
placed. That plus some are not acoustic, natural instruments. This
performer was using an electronic box that could do looping and effects such
as the perception of bowing his strings which was quite magical but I can
imagine these effects being put out directionally to make it more
interesting. Just a thought.

Why do we enjoy the "stereo-ness" of music? Bands arrange themselves in
stereo (directional groupings) because it is another dimension to the
experience - having the horns and reeds sing out in response to each other.
Pipe and electric organs are arranged in directional groups. Choruses are
arranged in groupings of voices. And of course we all know the standard
symphonic arrangement.

Why sound reinforcement of multiple instrument groups is never in stereo is
probably because it would be more work and more difficult to set up. Large
ampitheater settings can't do it because of their size, which makes no
stereo sense. Does anyone know of a stereo sound reinforcement system for
live sound?

But all that I meant was that I hate it when I go to a live concert (esp
jazz) and everything is amplified unnecessarily to the point that I would
hear the same sound in a recording off their console feed on PA speakers. I
thought the majority here would agree with that.

Gary

[Scott Dorsey]

Neil Gould wrote:
Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Good comments. All I meant was that whenever an event is amplified it
is always done in monophonic feeds, no matter where the house
speakers are placed.

Although this is often true, it is not always true, especially of electronic
music events. Stereo is quite common, and surround is also used in many
venues. In very large venues, sound reinforcement is even more complex. I
believe that recording these events has to begin with the intention of the
performer(s).

In a small club, the vast majority of the actual sound is coming live off
the backline and the actual instruments, with the PA only filling in. So
the fact that the PA is run mono does little to change the sense of space
other in that it pulls the vocals all to the center of the stereo image
(unless you're sitting way off to the side where it may pull them to the
side).

In a stadium situation with a rock band, you can wind up in a situation
where the audience is hearing almost entirely reinforced sound. In these
cases it can be very difficult to get good stereo imaging except in a small
center area of the hall; even with an LCR arrangement often the audience
members are not evenly covered by both speakers. So in this situation it is
common to hear the room effects in stereo and still get a sense of the
hall while all the actual direct sound is coming only from one place.
(Unfortunately these are usually the halls where you would be better off not
getting a good sense of the hall, but those are the breaks).

That plus some are not acoustic, natural
instruments.

Whatever *that* means. Very few instruments of any kind are "natural", e.g.
they occur in nature.

This is the point.... all instruments that directly make a sound are in
the same category whether they are electric or entirely mechanical,
because in all cases the sound in the air is produced by the instrument.
And yes, with an electric guitar the pickups and the guitar cabinet are
part of the instrument and part of the sound and the radiation pattern of
the cabinet is as important to the sound as the radiation pattern of a
violin.

Now, where it gets different is with electric instruments that are played
entirely through the PA and which produce no actual sound themselves, but
that is a different thing altogether.

This performer was using an electronic box that could do
looping and effects such as the perception of bowing his strings
which was quite magical but I can imagine these effects being put out
directionally to make it more interesting. Just a thought.

It would not be at all unusual for those effects to be presented
multi-dimensionally. I recall a Pink Floyd concert in the mid-late '60s that
used a quadraphonic PA system. Since that time, many electronic music events
have used complex presentation systems such as those that are common in
theaters.

Sure, but this is no different than miking all the drums individually and
panning them to different corners of the room. My tendency is to put this
in the category of "silly tricks" but if it makes money that's fine.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Neil Gould]

Gary Eickmeier wrote:
"Neil Gould" wrote in message
...
Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Just recorded a guitar solo concert. But like many live concerts it
was not live. It was an electric guitar, so we listened to it on
speakers. My approach was to put a single mike near the guitar, then
a stereo pair facing the audience, then capture the house sound off
the board to get the really close-up pick sound. Mix it all together
and you have a new audio event - very similar to the live event, but
more in stereo because I will image the guitar in center and have
stereo audience ambience. That's the plan anyway.

I have no idea what you mean by the event not being "live", since
there will
be a live performer in a room full of people. An electric guitar and
amp combination is a musical instrument. There may be no reason to
use a more elaborate mic arrangement than for an acoustic event,
unless part of the presentation includes some kind of surround
experience with multiple speakers placed around the room.
--
best regards,

Neil

Good comments. All I meant was that whenever an event is amplified it
is always done in monophonic feeds, no matter where the house
speakers are placed.

Although this is often true, it is not always true, especially of electronic
music events. Stereo is quite common, and surround is also used in many
venues. In very large venues, sound reinforcement is even more complex. I
believe that recording these events has to begin with the intention of the
performer(s).

That plus some are not acoustic, natural
instruments.

Whatever *that* means. Very few instruments of any kind are "natural", e.g.
they occur in nature.

This performer was using an electronic box that could do
looping and effects such as the perception of bowing his strings
which was quite magical but I can imagine these effects being put out
directionally to make it more interesting. Just a thought.

It would not be at all unusual for those effects to be presented
multi-dimensionally. I recall a Pink Floyd concert in the mid-late '60s that
used a quadraphonic PA system. Since that time, many electronic music events
have used complex presentation systems such as those that are common in
theaters.

[...]
Why sound reinforcement of multiple instrument groups is never in
stereo is probably because it would be more work and more difficult
to set up. Large ampitheater settings can't do it because of their
size, which makes no stereo sense. Does anyone know of a stereo sound
reinforcement system for live sound?

Most of them are at least capable of stereo. Whether or not they're used
that way depends on the music being presented. The bottom line, again, is
the intent of the performer(s). If you wish to document their event, you
need to know what they're trying to achieve or you'll only be creating some
other representation of their work.
--
best regards,

Neil

[Neil[_9_]]

On 6/22/2014 1:43 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Neil Gould wrote:
Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Good comments. All I meant was that whenever an event is amplified it
is always done in monophonic feeds, no matter where the house
speakers are placed.

Although this is often true, it is not always true, especially of electronic
music events. Stereo is quite common, and surround is also used in many
venues. In very large venues, sound reinforcement is even more complex. I
believe that recording these events has to begin with the intention of the
performer(s).

In a small club, the vast majority of the actual sound is coming live off
the backline and the actual instruments, with the PA only filling in. So
the fact that the PA is run mono does little to change the sense of space
other in that it pulls the vocals all to the center of the stereo image
(unless you're sitting way off to the side where it may pull them to the
side).

In a stadium situation with a rock band, you can wind up in a situation
where the audience is hearing almost entirely reinforced sound. In these
cases it can be very difficult to get good stereo imaging except in a small
center area of the hall; even with an LCR arrangement often the audience
members are not evenly covered by both speakers. So in this situation it is
common to hear the room effects in stereo and still get a sense of the
hall while all the actual direct sound is coming only from one place.
(Unfortunately these are usually the halls where you would be better off not
getting a good sense of the hall, but those are the breaks).

That plus some are not acoustic, natural
instruments.

Whatever *that* means. Very few instruments of any kind are "natural", e.g.
they occur in nature.

This is the point.... all instruments that directly make a sound are in
the same category whether they are electric or entirely mechanical,
because in all cases the sound in the air is produced by the instrument.
And yes, with an electric guitar the pickups and the guitar cabinet are
part of the instrument and part of the sound and the radiation pattern of
the cabinet is as important to the sound as the radiation pattern of a
violin.

Now, where it gets different is with electric instruments that are played
entirely through the PA and which produce no actual sound themselves, but
that is a different thing altogether.

Perhaps not so different, if the sound that is achieved is what the
player wanted. Today, very few electric musicians feel the need to have
large stacks of amplifiers just to get "that sound", and in many cases
the amps have a direct feed to the PA, so they serve as little more than
personal instrument monitors anyway.

This performer was using an electronic box that could do
looping and effects such as the perception of bowing his strings
which was quite magical but I can imagine these effects being put out
directionally to make it more interesting. Just a thought.

It would not be at all unusual for those effects to be presented
multi-dimensionally. I recall a Pink Floyd concert in the mid-late '60s that
used a quadraphonic PA system. Since that time, many electronic music events
have used complex presentation systems such as those that are common in
theaters.

Sure, but this is no different than miking all the drums individually and
panning them to different corners of the room. My tendency is to put this
in the category of "silly tricks" but if it makes money that's fine.

I'd say that whether it's art or a silly trick depends on the intention
of the performer. Some do not just create a louder version of what is
happening on stage, and if their vision communicates a purpose that
enhances the performance, I'd say it's probably art. Although artists
are a relatively small percentage of performers, it's hard to tell ahead
of time if one doesn't ask about their intent.
--
best regards,
Neil

[Sean Conolly]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Neil Gould wrote:
Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Good comments. All I meant was that whenever an event is amplified it
is always done in monophonic feeds, no matter where the house
speakers are placed.

Although this is often true, it is not always true, especially of
electronic
music events. Stereo is quite common, and surround is also used in many
venues. In very large venues, sound reinforcement is even more complex. I
believe that recording these events has to begin with the intention of the
performer(s).

In a small club, the vast majority of the actual sound is coming live off
the backline and the actual instruments, with the PA only filling in. So
the fact that the PA is run mono does little to change the sense of space
other in that it pulls the vocals all to the center of the stereo image
(unless you're sitting way off to the side where it may pull them to the
side).

In a stadium situation with a rock band, you can wind up in a situation
where the audience is hearing almost entirely reinforced sound. In these
cases it can be very difficult to get good stereo imaging except in a
small
center area of the hall; even with an LCR arrangement often the audience
members are not evenly covered by both speakers. So in this situation it
is
common to hear the room effects in stereo and still get a sense of the
hall while all the actual direct sound is coming only from one place.
(Unfortunately these are usually the halls where you would be better off
not
getting a good sense of the hall, but those are the breaks).

That plus some are not acoustic, natural
instruments.

Whatever *that* means. Very few instruments of any kind are "natural",
e.g.
they occur in nature.

This is the point.... all instruments that directly make a sound are in
the same category whether they are electric or entirely mechanical,
because in all cases the sound in the air is produced by the instrument.
And yes, with an electric guitar the pickups and the guitar cabinet are
part of the instrument and part of the sound and the radiation pattern of
the cabinet is as important to the sound as the radiation pattern of a
violin.

Now, where it gets different is with electric instruments that are played
entirely through the PA and which produce no actual sound themselves, but
that is a different thing altogether.

This performer was using an electronic box that could do
looping and effects such as the perception of bowing his strings
which was quite magical but I can imagine these effects being put out
directionally to make it more interesting. Just a thought.

It would not be at all unusual for those effects to be presented
multi-dimensionally. I recall a Pink Floyd concert in the mid-late '60s
that
used a quadraphonic PA system. Since that time, many electronic music
events
have used complex presentation systems such as those that are common in
theaters.

Sure, but this is no different than miking all the drums individually and
panning them to different corners of the room. My tendency is to put this
in the category of "silly tricks" but if it makes money that's fine.

However, a B3 going through a couple of Leslies in a small club has a real
3D feel to it - silly trick or not :-)

Sean

[geoff]

On 22/06/2014 7:16 p.m., Gary Eickmeier wrote:
s to put a single mike near the guitar, then a stereo pair facing
the audienc


I'd put the guitar mic near the amp (well, speaker actually) ....

;-)


geoff

[Luxey]

недеља, 22. јун 2014. 09.16.56 UTC+2, Gary Eickmeier је напи�ао/ла:
Just recorded a guitar solo concert. But like many live concerts it was not

live. It was an electric guitar, so we listened to it on speakers. My

approach was to put a single mike near the guitar, then a stereo pair facing

the audience, then capture the house sound off the board to get the really

close-up pick sound. Mix it all together and you have a new audio event -

very similar to the live event, but more in stereo because I will image the

guitar in center and have stereo audience ambience. That's the plan anyway.





--

Gary Eickmeier

I think that is a good plan to have as many different "versions" on multitrack,
to chose from and mix. In the end you don't have to use them all. One may be just enough. Take care about delays and phase so not to end with guitar of
20 meters wide body. Unfortunately, judged by all previous gibberish about
speakers, acoustics and stereo it seams you actually like that garbage kind of sound.

Is it acoustic guitar, with some kind of pick up, electric,...? Why would you record the audience from the stage perspective?
If it is solo guitar, the all and the only stereo is in reverb/ reflections.. You should record that, there where it is good.

[Scott Dorsey]

Sean Conolly wrote:

However, a B3 going through a couple of Leslies in a small club has a real
3D feel to it - silly trick or not :-)

That's a silly _instrument_ trick, though, not a silly PA trick. It's in
the same category as stereo guitar amps, antiphonal organs, and those
Mozart pieces with the two counterpoint parts performed by fiddles on either
side of the orchestra.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[John Williamson]

On 22/06/2014 22:20, geoff wrote:
On 22/06/2014 7:16 p.m., Gary Eickmeier wrote:
s to put a single mike near the guitar, then a stereo pair facing
the audienc


I'd put the guitar mic near the amp (well, speaker actually) ....

;-)

I also play about with the position of the mic relative to the speaker
cone, as the results vary between edge and centre. Sometimes, I get the
best results by pointing the mic at the back of the speaker, if the
cabinet has an open back.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[geoff]

On 23/06/2014 4:04 p.m., John Williamson wrote:
On 22/06/2014 22:20, geoff wrote:
On 22/06/2014 7:16 p.m., Gary Eickmeier wrote:
s to put a single mike near the guitar, then a stereo pair facing
the audienc


I'd put the guitar mic near the amp (well, speaker actually) ....

;-)

I also play about with the position of the mic relative to the speaker
cone, as the results vary between edge and centre. Sometimes, I get the
best results by pointing the mic at the back of the speaker, if the
cabinet has an open back.


Depending on teh performer it may be better from the back on an
enclosed speaker !

geoff

[John Williamson]

On 23/06/2014 10:37, geoff wrote:
On 23/06/2014 4:04 p.m., John Williamson wrote:
On 22/06/2014 22:20, geoff wrote:
On 22/06/2014 7:16 p.m., Gary Eickmeier wrote:
s to put a single mike near the guitar, then a stereo pair facing
the audienc


I'd put the guitar mic near the amp (well, speaker actually) ....

;-)

I also play about with the position of the mic relative to the speaker
cone, as the results vary between edge and centre. Sometimes, I get the
best results by pointing the mic at the back of the speaker, if the
cabinet has an open back.


Depending on teh performer it may be better from the back on an
enclosed speaker !

Grin


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 6/22/2014 11:14 AM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Why sound reinforcement of multiple instrument groups is never in stereo is
probably because it would be more work and more difficult to set up. Large
ampitheater settings can't do it because of their size, which makes no
stereo sense. Does anyone know of a stereo sound reinforcement system for
live sound?

Stereo live sound reinforcement is often used for effects, but not for
the main elements of the sound. You might get stereo reverb or a tom
roll panned across the stage, but singers and instruments are always
panned to the center.

You'll sometimes find stereo panning in a small venue, but that's
largely because the operator doesn't really understand what he or she is
doing, and most mixers used for live sound, even smaller systems, do
offer panning between two channels. The guitar player is standing on the
left, so they pan it to the left. Hopefully the room is small enough so
that people sitting on the right sound can still hear the guitar.


--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Scott Dorsey]

John Williamson wrote:
On 22/06/2014 22:20, geoff wrote:
On 22/06/2014 7:16 p.m., Gary Eickmeier wrote:
s to put a single mike near the guitar, then a stereo pair facing
the audienc


I'd put the guitar mic near the amp (well, speaker actually) ....

;-)

I also play about with the position of the mic relative to the speaker
cone, as the results vary between edge and centre. Sometimes, I get the
best results by pointing the mic at the back of the speaker, if the
cabinet has an open back.

It can be very interesting to put an electric guitar into a good room and
then mike the room instead of the cabinet. People don't do that today and
it can result in a more distant sound than people are used to, but it can
be a very realistic and exciting sound.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Neil[_9_]]

On 6/23/2014 9:14 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 6/22/2014 11:14 AM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Why sound reinforcement of multiple instrument groups is never in
stereo is
probably because it would be more work and more difficult to set up.
Large
ampitheater settings can't do it because of their size, which makes no
stereo sense. Does anyone know of a stereo sound reinforcement system for
live sound?

Stereo live sound reinforcement is often used for effects, but not for
the main elements of the sound.

Gary's situation is a solo guitar performer using multiple effects. I'd
think that sound reinforcement is key, if not the main element of the
performance in this case.

A musical concert is a collaboration between the performer(s) and the
sound crew, and as in any other professional collaboration,
communicating about the intentions, possible issues and limitations of
the event is a good thing.
--
best regards,
Neil

[Gary Eickmeier]

"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
On 23/06/2014 10:37, geoff wrote:
On 23/06/2014 4:04 p.m., John Williamson wrote:
On 22/06/2014 22:20, geoff wrote:
On 22/06/2014 7:16 p.m., Gary Eickmeier wrote:
s to put a single mike near the guitar, then a stereo pair facing
the audienc


I'd put the guitar mic near the amp (well, speaker actually) ....

;-)

I also play about with the position of the mic relative to the speaker
cone, as the results vary between edge and centre. Sometimes, I get the
best results by pointing the mic at the back of the speaker, if the
cabinet has an open back.


Depending on teh performer it may be better from the back on an
enclosed speaker !

Grin

Sound went into the church system, playing over speakers that are way high
up on the front wall and hung from the ceiling. The sound desk had L and R
in and out, but I have no idea whether amps and speakers were arranged for
stereo. No need for it in a church environment.

Gary

[Gary Eickmeier]

Luxey wrote:
??????, 22. ??? 2014. 09.16.56 UTC+2, Gary Eickmeier ?? ???????/??:
Just recorded a guitar solo concert. But like many live concerts it
was not

live. It was an electric guitar, so we listened to it on speakers. My

approach was to put a single mike near the guitar, then a stereo
pair facing

the audience, then capture the house sound off the board to get the
really

close-up pick sound. Mix it all together and you have a new audio
event -

very similar to the live event, but more in stereo because I will
image the

guitar in center and have stereo audience ambience. That's the plan
anyway. --

Gary Eickmeier

I think that is a good plan to have as many different "versions" on
multitrack,
to chose from and mix. In the end you don't have to use them all. One
may be just enough. Take care about delays and phase so not to end
with guitar of
20 meters wide body. Unfortunately, judged by all previous gibberish
about
speakers, acoustics and stereo it seams you actually like that
garbage kind of sound.

Is it acoustic guitar, with some kind of pick up, electric,...? Why
would you record the audience from the stage perspective?
If it is solo guitar, the all and the only stereo is in reverb/
reflections. You should record that, there where it is good.

Sometimes you don't have many options, and/or don't know the venue or have
enough time to analyze the whole situation. Hence, my taking as many tracks
as I had equipment for and fixing it in the mix. My main thought on
pointing the stereo mike at the audience was to be sure that the single
guitar mike took precedence and to get some clean audience applause and
reaction. The sound board take-off was for the cleanest guitar and effects
sound and for his voice.

Final factor is that this is not a recording session, it is a live concert
and I am just recording it for my own practice and for him, to give him a CD
of it. I had to stay unobtrusive and keep the equipment invisible and
unobjectionable. So, a single mike on a small stand and the little Zoom H6
recorder with MS capsule on another similar stand, connected by a single XLR
cable.

Gary

[Sylvain Robitaille]

On Mon, 23 Jun 2014 09:30:10 -0400, Neil wrote:

A musical concert is a collaboration between the performer(s) and
the sound crew, and as in any other professional collaboration,
communicating about the intentions, possible issues and limitations
of the event is a good thing.

I would add to that, not going into the situation with preconceived
notions about what is or isn't "correct" or "natural" sounding (let
alone "live") for the instrument(s) involved. Just do your best to
capture the best possible representation of the performance. That
usually gets easier with repeated attempts with the same performer(s).

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sylvain Robitaille

Systems analyst / AITS Concordia University
Faculty of Engineering and Computer Science Montreal, Quebec, Canada
----------------------------------------------------------------------

[hank alrich]

Gary Eickmeier wrote:

Does anyone know of a stereo sound reinforcement system for
live sound?

Nearly all of the known good systems are capable of that. Sometimes
stereo is desirable, and sometimes not.

As Jim Finney says, "In concert lots of people listen with their eyes".

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

[hank alrich]

Sean Conolly wrote:

However, a B3 going through a couple of Leslies in a small club has a real
3D feel to it - silly trick or not :-)

Lovely trick!

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

[Scott Dorsey]

hank alrich wrote:
Gary Eickmeier wrote:

Does anyone know of a stereo sound reinforcement system for
live sound?

Nearly all of the known good systems are capable of that. Sometimes
stereo is desirable, and sometimes not.

And let me add to what Hank said that just about every commercial PA rig
is capable of splitting sounds between two or more channels... but the
majority of large halls are not capable of reproducing that sound
consistently to all seats.

That is, the problem is not with the electronics but the architecture.

As Jim Finney says, "In concert lots of people listen with their eyes".

And as a result exaggerated stereo effects or just plain wrong effects
(like all the sound coming from the listener's right) became severe
problems because what the eye sees and what the ear hears are in conflict.
The sound might be fine by itself, but it doesn't mesh with the visuals.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."