Group,

I am a relative newcomer to this newsgroup, and when I joined, I was
really impressed with the kind, smart, folk out there that helped me with
some complex problems. For that I am truly thankful. What I don't understand
is why there are those who insist on getting personal, and try to really
make a person appear as scum to the group. Why can't we stay on topic which
is our passion for audio, tubes, experimenting, exchanging technical ideas,
answering questions from others not so experienced, etc. ?? To be honest, I
don't care about how anyone in this group leads their life, their beliefs,
sexual orientation, etc. I care about their knowledge of tubes, audio, and
the like. Can those of you out there casting stones, look into a mirror at
yourself, reevaluate this practice, and get back into the fascinating
subject of tubes?

Thanks,
Jim

"Jim Candela"

Group,

I am a relative newcomer to this newsgroup, and when I joined, I was
really impressed with the kind, smart, folk out there that helped me with
some complex problems. For that I am truly thankful.
.............

What I don't understand
is why there are those who insist on getting personal, and try to really
make a person appear as scum to the group.


** Then go tell that to Pat Turner, Fred Nachbaur and Co !!!

These vacuum head assholes really think the OWN this newsgroup - that
it is their club and they are the governing committee. As a consequence of
the above they believe that have the right to publicly punish people and
exclude by ridicule and verbal defiling anyone they care to.

Pat has gone so far as to post a criminal threat - then the turd had
the gall to pretend HE was the victim of stalking.

Puke, puke ...




........... Phil

Jim Candela: Can those of you out there casting stones, look into a mirror
at
yourself, reevaluate this practice, and get back into the fascinating
subject of tubes?

Geee, you ought to be glad you haven't frequented rec.audio.pro. Whenever the
subject of tubes came up, the smoke didn't clear for years. Don't even MENTION
analog/digital on that group. You want to be squashed into an atom?!

These problems are primarily due to a few trolls. As far as I have been
able to tell, these are people who have some sort of problem with anger or
self-esteem or something. If you add them to your killfile things tend to
improve. The primary sign of trolls are four letter words used in the
context of an insult, posting of personal attacks etc. A perfect example are
postings lately by someone using an anonymous email address attacking
certain members of this group who are among the most productive and
informative posters on the web on the subject of tube audio. This is a
problem that is fairly ubiquitous throughout USENET and some groups have
been ruined by trolls.

The best strategy is to ignore them.


"Jim Candela" wrote in message
om...
Group,

I am a relative newcomer to this newsgroup, and when I joined, I was
really impressed with the kind, smart, folk out there that helped me with
some complex problems. For that I am truly thankful. What I don't
understand
is why there are those who insist on getting personal, and try to really
make a person appear as scum to the group. Why can't we stay on topic
which
is our passion for audio, tubes, experimenting, exchanging technical
ideas,
answering questions from others not so experienced, etc. ?? To be honest,
I
don't care about how anyone in this group leads their life, their beliefs,
sexual orientation, etc. I care about their knowledge of tubes, audio, and
the like. Can those of you out there casting stones, look into a mirror at
yourself, reevaluate this practice, and get back into the fascinating
subject of tubes?

Thanks,
Jim

Jim Candela wrote:

Group,

I am a relative newcomer to this newsgroup, and when I joined, I was
really impressed with the kind, smart, folk out there that helped me with
some complex problems. For that I am truly thankful. What I don't understand
is why there are those who insist on getting personal, and try to really
make a person appear as scum to the group.

Any public news group, like a pub attracts those whose main
joy is to see others suffer needlessly, or when they are at the "pub",
then proceed to get drunk and completely abusive, like some drunks do,
and proceed to pick fights with all those around them.
Because people stoop to replying to these angry ants,
you soon have a news group which looks like a rubbish pile.

If you so object to the present crap, I suggest you place a filter on your news
group browser,
to filter out those you decide really are not worth reading.
You will see replies from ppl you like to some of these trolls,
and this is unfortunate, but you can still reply back to those you like,
ignoring the content
of the troll, who hates being ignored, and perhaps start a new thread
under a similar name, to address the subject, and get away from answering the
troll.
But most folks act like sheep, and follow, rather than lead with a new subject
title, except the trolls, who constantly post eye catching new subject
headers daily, to hook ppl in.

Why can't we stay on topic which
is our passion for audio, tubes, experimenting, exchanging technical ideas,
answering questions from others not so experienced, etc. ?? To be honest, I
don't care about how anyone in this group leads their life, their beliefs,
sexual orientation, etc. I care about their knowledge of tubes, audio, and
the like. Can those of you out there casting stones, look into a mirror at
yourself, reevaluate this practice, and get back into the fascinating
subject of tubes?

Ha, I'm afraid the main users of filthy language, and eloquent
piles of utter balderdash look into the mirror,
and are transfixed by their own beauty and importance,
while the rest of us grumble about their irksome presence.
Look at all the DUMB replies to an initial post by a known troll
generated on the thread on 'Turner'!
What did they achieve?

If there was more discussion subjects on tubecraft posted,
then there would be more tubecraft discussion,
and less notice taken of the trolls. The known trolls acting here now
don't have much agregated knowledge about tubes, so they would not be missed
if nobody read them, or replied, and everyone ignored them at ALL TIMES.

Of course, the operation and content of this group has become
less intense over the years, and many who used to be here
have left for greener pastures of intellectual persuits on
oyher groups which have the power to exclude the trolls,
and those whose eloquence always ends up in a hissy fit type of
drawn out character demolition..
Since the Net has become mainstream, many forums have
started, with password access, and moderators,
but I think that means this gives the single interest groups some
place to hang out where they don't get the abuse, but they also
don't have a variety of points of view.
Or if they do, its a bit stiffling, like at Rec.audio.high-end,
where some of the trolls who post here have zero chance of
lasting very long because they just are bundled out by the moderator.
The troll's standard way of communication is to insult, and insult, and insult,
which completely negates most ppl's desire to read their informative content,
small that it is, usually, because since they are incapable of friendship
empathy, sympathy, mateship, compassion, or good humour, and they cannot
explain themselves very well at all without getting seriously angry
and bored, and cannot spell something out in a non toxic manner.
They always blame the listener, rather than explain things fully
when understanding fails to occur after one of their all to often
inadequate explanations.
They are intolerant of newbies.

There is NO way you can ever win, gain resolution of conflicts,
or enjoy any peace with suchlike, because they are possessed by the demon
vice of anger, and its their natural way of being.
They are quite blind to themselves, and peaceful interchange of ideas is never
possible.

I'd prefer to be able to post about tube related issues all the time,
but sometimes I enjoy a few off topics, but when I have launched into
some non abusive, but thought provoking interlude about
say guns, dogs, and personal security, I get all this flak
about how I hate the USA, and its people, which I don't, of course.
So one cannot win, there are always going to be those who
attack without any thought behind it.

No doubt the know trolls will seize upon what I have now said to all of you in
this group,
and twist it all around to make it look like I am attacking them,
and they will counter attack with yet more BS which underlines all
of what I am saying as being quite prudent, and full of common sense.
The trolls have the opportunity to be polite at all times, and to
stop their quite mindless slander and defamation of those
here who have a lot to say about tubecraft
without all the personal angst. But they won't change, so
please ignore them, and never reply.

Patrick Turner.


Thanks,
Jim

"Patrick Turner"


** (snip usual pile of monstrous falsehoods trotted out yet again by an
evil mental cripple to cover his putrid smell)


**** WHAT **A** HYPOCRITE !!!!!!! ****




.......... Phil

"Jim Candela" wrote in message
om...
What I don't understand
is why there are those who insist on getting personal, and try to really
make a person appear as scum to the group.

Just bad timing. It's troll season again, and they're out in full force
this year. Ignore the troublesome ones (Andre Jute and his five aliases,
and Phil Allison) and all will be blissful again.

Tim

--
"That's for the courts to decide." - Homer Simpson
Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

"Phil Allison" wrote in message . au...

excerpt:

These vacuum head assholes really think the OWN this newsgroup - that
it is their club and they are the governing committee. As a consequence of
the above they believe that have the right to publicly punish people and
exclude by ridicule and verbal defiling anyone they care to.

:end excerpt.

Well, Phil,

thank GOD, I cannot agree with your above statement at all, and I
don't even feel those mentioned acting like described above..

IMHO, everyone (including but not limited to YOU), is welcome to post
things on topic on rec.audio.tubes , being helpful to others, readers
and posters, on this group. This will be my one and only reply
concerning these ongoing disputes of the recent 6 or 8 weeks or so.
Don't just even try to pull me in.

But FEAR NOT:
this (to say the least) *strange* behaviour won't make me go away from
r.a.t .

One thing I noticed is that this higher 'noise' level on r.a.t
coincedes in time, with the increased amount of SPAM in my mbx'es.

And NO, I don't think, it's 'just me'.

I'd like for all of us to keep up the good manners and mutual respect,
be it for the respective opinion of someone, or just for his help in a
RAT project.

And don't feed trolls, not even those 'intellectually superior' ones.

(c:

kind regards

Sebastian

"Sebastian" wrote in message
om...
"Phil Allison" wrote in message
. au...

excerpt:

These vacuum head assholes really think the OWN this newsgroup -
that
it is their club and they are the governing committee. As a consequence
of
the above they believe that have the right to publicly punish people and
exclude by ridicule and verbal defiling anyone they care to.

:end excerpt.

Well, Phil,

thank GOD, I cannot agree with your above statement at all, and I
don't even feel those mentioned acting like described above..


** Dear Sebastian :


You are an absolute ****ing idiot.



........... love, Phil