Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
# Fred # # Fred # is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Recording level low - Nomrd Jukdbox Zen Extra to Audigy 2ZS Platium Pro

I'm saving the pre recorded songs that came with the Jukebox in analog mode
from the
headphone jack from the Jukebox to the Audigy Line-in 3 RCA inputs on the
Audigy 2ZS external box. I have both the volume on the Jukebox and the
recording level on the
Audigy at maximum but the recording level monitor barely moved (one or two
bars). S/N ratio couldn't be too great so what gives? Not enough gain on the
Audigy and is this normal?


  #2   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,744
Default Recording level low - Nomrd Jukdbox Zen Extra to Audigy 2ZS Platium Pro


# Fred # wrote:

headphone jack from the Jukebox to the Audigy Line-in 3 RCA inputs on the
Audigy 2ZS external box. I have both the volume on the Jukebox and the
recording level on the
Audigy at maximum but the recording level monitor barely moved (one or two
bars). S/N ratio couldn't be too great so what gives? Not enough gain on the
Audigy and is this normal?


You're asking if something that's obviously wrong is normal?

A better question is "What's wrong?" There should be enough level from
the headphone output to drive a reasonable analog input to an
acceptable recording level. You may not have the record level adusted
properly for your Audigy card. I'm assuming you're using Windows. Open
the Windows mixer, select Properties, Recording, and then select the
Audigy. Make sure that the line level input slider is up.

I suppose that it's possible that you're using an incorrect cable to
get between the headphone jack and the RCA jacks. You might have a
cable that's designed to go from RCA outputs to a mic level input, and
the signal is attenuated going through the cable. It works both ways.

Finally, I don't know what "one or two bars" represents. I guess that's
a sort of meter. Is that two out of three, or two out of ten, or what?

  #3   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Romeo Rondeau Romeo Rondeau is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 343
Default Recording level low - Nomrd Jukdbox Zen Extra to Audigy 2ZS Platium Pro

Finally, I don't know what "one or two bars" represents. I guess that's
a sort of meter. Is that two out of three, or two out of ten, or what?


What kind of bars? Maybe he was drunk and didn't set the levels properly?
:-)


  #4   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
# Fred # # Fred # is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Recording level low - Nomrd Jukdbox Zen Extra to Audigy 2ZS Platium Pro


"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
oups.com...

# Fred # wrote:

headphone jack from the Jukebox to the Audigy Line-in 3 RCA inputs on the
Audigy 2ZS external box. I have both the volume on the Jukebox and the
recording level on the
Audigy at maximum but the recording level monitor barely moved (one or
two
bars). S/N ratio couldn't be too great so what gives? Not enough gain on
the
Audigy and is this normal?


You're asking if something that's obviously wrong is normal?

A better question is "What's wrong?" There should be enough level from
the headphone output to drive a reasonable analog input to an
acceptable recording level. You may not have the record level adusted
properly for your Audigy card. I'm assuming you're using Windows. Open
the Windows mixer, select Properties, Recording, and then select the
Audigy. Make sure that the line level input slider is up.

I suppose that it's possible that you're using an incorrect cable to
get between the headphone jack and the RCA jacks. You might have a
cable that's designed to go from RCA outputs to a mic level input, and
the signal is attenuated going through the cable. It works both ways.

Finally, I don't know what "one or two bars" represents. I guess that's
a sort of meter. Is that two out of three, or two out of ten, or what?


Thanks for the reply Mike. WinXP and recording level already at maximum on
the mixer. I've switched to another set of audio cables from another setup
with no improvement. One or two bars I mean about 5% of the full recording
meter scale. I could drive recording level to saturation where the recording
meter scale turn from green to red but that would be very loud from the
headphone output jack - where you could feel the music - from my table
radio. I suspect either the gain on the Audigy is a little low but wonder if
others have the same problem.


  #5   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,744
Default Recording level low - Nomrd Jukdbox Zen Extra to Audigy 2ZS Platium Pro


# Fred # wrote:

I suspect either the gain on the Audigy is a little low but wonder if
others have the same problem.


Yes, this is a common problem, and not just with the Audigy/Jukebox
combination. It can occur any time you don't know what output level or
input sensitivity you have. But you might just not be interpreting the
meters correctly. If you're recording at 5% of maximum level, that's
-26 dBFS. It's only 10 dB below a "good" level.

Do you have anything else that you can connect to your Audigy to see
whether you can get the level up any higher? If something's broken, you
need to determine what it is, and if nothing's broken, then you need to
determine what you have. Just by the nature of these things, an RCA
input jack should have adequate sensitivity to record a headphone
output level.

Does your Jukebox have a Line Output jack? Try that. Maybe headphone
outputs aren't what they used to be.



  #6   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
# Fred # # Fred # is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Recording level low - Nomrd Jukdbox Zen Extra to Audigy 2ZS Platium Pro


"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
oups.com...

# Fred # wrote:

I suspect either the gain on the Audigy is a little low but wonder if
others have the same problem.


Yes, this is a common problem, and not just with the Audigy/Jukebox
combination. It can occur any time you don't know what output level or
input sensitivity you have. But you might just not be interpreting the
meters correctly. If you're recording at 5% of maximum level, that's
-26 dBFS. It's only 10 dB below a "good" level.

Do you have anything else that you can connect to your Audigy to see
whether you can get the level up any higher? If something's broken, you
need to determine what it is, and if nothing's broken, then you need to
determine what you have. Just by the nature of these things, an RCA
input jack should have adequate sensitivity to record a headphone
output level.

Does your Jukebox have a Line Output jack? Try that. Maybe headphone
outputs aren't what they used to be.


My Jukebox has both headphone jack and a USB 2.0 port but no line out. I
couldn't upload from the USB because the pre-installed songs were factory
locked but I wanted to save it before I remove it from the Jukebox. Also I
have about six portable MP3 players and all of them don't have a lot of gain
to drive headphones very loud but most of my music is pop anyway so I don't
drive it hard except when I need to record it to the Audigy.

In any case, here is something new for me: My portable CD player has both
output and a headphone jacks and when I adjust the sound level on the
headphone jack to the same level as on the line out and connected to RCA
input on the Audigy the results were surprisingly different. On the CD
player via the headphone jack, the record level on the Audigy didn't
register at all but on the line out the record level is at 40% ! I didn't
know the impedances were so different between line out and headphone so I
really need a pre amp for the headphone output to match the impedance to the
RCA input on the Audigy to get good quality recordings. No?


  #7   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,744
Default Recording level low - Nomrd Jukdbox Zen Extra to Audigy 2ZS Platium Pro


# Fred # wrote:

My portable CD player has both
output and a headphone jacks and when I adjust the sound level on the
headphone jack to the same level as on the line out and connected to RCA
input on the Audigy the results were surprisingly different. On the CD
player via the headphone jack, the record level on the Audigy didn't
register at all but on the line out the record level is at 40%


This was a case of impedance mismatching, or rather, impedance
matching. Headphones require some power but a line input (on your
Audigy) requires only voltage and negligiable current. So the line
output actually drops quite a bit when you plug in the headphones. A
headphone output has a lower source impedance, so the voltage doesn't
drop very much when connected to headphones, which are a lower
impedance load than your Audigy input.

When you matched the apparent level in the phones by adjusting the
volume control on your CD player, you probably turned it down quite a
bit. Can you turn the headphone volume up far enough to match the
record level you're getting when you connect the line output to your
Audigy?

If your Audigy has a mic level input, that might be a better match for
a wimpy headphone output than the line input.

  #8   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
# Fred # # Fred # is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Recording level low - Nomrd Jukdbox Zen Extra to Audigy 2ZS Platium Pro


"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
oups.com...

# Fred # wrote:

My portable CD player has both
output and a headphone jacks and when I adjust the sound level on the
headphone jack to the same level as on the line out and connected to RCA
input on the Audigy the results were surprisingly different. On the CD
player via the headphone jack, the record level on the Audigy didn't
register at all but on the line out the record level is at 40%


This was a case of impedance mismatching, or rather, impedance
matching. Headphones require some power but a line input (on your
Audigy) requires only voltage and negligiable current. So the line
output actually drops quite a bit when you plug in the headphones. A
headphone output has a lower source impedance, so the voltage doesn't
drop very much when connected to headphones, which are a lower
impedance load than your Audigy input.

When you matched the apparent level in the phones by adjusting the
volume control on your CD player, you probably turned it down quite a
bit. Can you turn the headphone volume up far enough to match the
record level you're getting when you connect the line output to your
Audigy?

Yes

If your Audigy has a mic level input, that might be a better match for
a wimpy headphone output than the line input.


The mic input looks like it has a different equalization circuit as it only
gets more distorted but not louder when the gain on the mike input is turned
up.


  #9   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,744
Default Recording level low - Nomrd Jukdbox Zen Extra to Audigy 2ZS Platium Pro


# Fred # wrote:

The mic input looks like it has a different equalization circuit as it only
gets more distorted but not louder when the gain on the mike input is turned
up.


You need an Audigy expert, not a generalist. That may be a "consumer"
card but there's got to be a way to make this work. Sadly, Creative
Labs doesn't offer a lot in the way of documentation.

You couid decide that it's time to get rid of that Audigy and get
something that doesn't have too many tricks and more standard
connections.

  #10   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
Arny Krueger Arny Krueger is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17,262
Default Recording level low - Nomrd Jukdbox Zen Extra to Audigy 2ZS Platium Pro

"# Fred #" wrote in message


The mic input looks like it has a different equalization
circuit as it only gets more distorted but not louder
when the gain on the mike input is turned up.


That probably means that the mic input has its gain control in the digital
domain, and the source is clipping out the input circuitryu that comes
before the gain control.

Line level should work well enough with the output of a CD player. If
necessary, boost the signal after recording using your digital editing
software. If you don't have a digital audio editor available, download the
Audacity freeware.




  #11   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
# Fred # # Fred # is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Recording level low - Nomrd Jukdbox Zen Extra to Audigy 2ZS Platium Pro


"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
oups.com...

# Fred # wrote:

My portable CD player has both
output and a headphone jacks and when I adjust the sound level on the
headphone jack to the same level as on the line out and connected to RCA
input on the Audigy the results were surprisingly different. On the CD
player via the headphone jack, the record level on the Audigy didn't
register at all but on the line out the record level is at 40%


This was a case of impedance mismatching, or rather, impedance
matching. Headphones require some power but a line input (on your
Audigy) requires only voltage and negligiable current. So the line
output actually drops quite a bit when you plug in the headphones. A
headphone output has a lower source impedance, so the voltage doesn't
drop very much when connected to headphones, which are a lower
impedance load than your Audigy input.

When you matched the apparent level in the phones by adjusting the
volume control on your CD player, you probably turned it down quite a
bit. Can you turn the headphone volume up far enough to match the
record level you're getting when you connect the line output to your
Audigy?


Yes


If your Audigy has a mic level input, that might be a better match for
a wimpy headphone output than the line input.


The mic input looks like it has a different equalization circuit as it only
gets more distorted but not louder when the gain on the mike input is turned
up.


Reply
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
rec.audio.car FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (caution, this is HUGE) MOSFET Car Audio 0 June 18th 06 05:27 AM
Artists cut out the record biz [email protected] Pro Audio 64 July 9th 04 10:02 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:46 AM.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AudioBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Audio and hi-fi"