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#1
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For Sale: Tube Driver Blue TDB475
I may sell my Tube Driver Blue TDB475. I purchased it new directly from BK
Butler on 8/4/03. It's in pristine cosmetic condition [having been mounted in an enclosed amp rack] and performs perfectly. I have the factory shipping box, packing materials and owner's manual. This is the fourth version of the Tube Driver amp. I've owned all versions; without a doubt this amp is the best of the group. The ONLY reason I'm considering the sale of this amp is to accumulate sufficient funds to buy a Denon DCT-Z1. I'm asking $750 + shipping. MSRP is $1099. I will accept payment via USPS money orders or PayPal if paid from buyer's PayPal credit balance or checking account. If you have questions, please email me at . |
#2
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For Sale: Tube Driver Blue TDB475
I am curious,
What are the other three Butler designs you are speaking of? I can only recall two Butler designs. One was the original Tubedriver manuractured by Phaze Audio. IMHO, it was an atrocious piece. Poorly laid out PCB, bad power supply design, poor heater design ( it used the RTO lead to heat the vacuum tubes) and it was a nightmare to disassemble/reassemble for repair. Sounded only *OKAY*, well actually it sounded like pushing music thru sand. The second is the Tubedriver Blue that you now have. I haven't heard it but I would tend to believe that they might just sound quite stunning, considering all the technology he "borrowed" from PPI's Tube Driver designs. Precision Power Inc., also made a Tubedriver amplifier. It had not one iota of the technology that BK butler pedals as his design. PPI did however use a shape close to the Original. I believe that PPI licensed the name only from BK Butler. This line of amplifiers had the outstanding quality and sound that PPI was known for. And, the sound did have a little bit of the vacuum tube "coloration" from truly operating the tubes at high cathode voltage. They do have their quirks though. I am also of the opinion that his new line of amplifiers, Tube Driver Blue are very much infused with "borrowed" PPI technology. How do I know this you ask? Ask Mr Butler why he decided to depart from using Lateral MOSFET's in his audio output section and went with SANKEN 2SC3284/2SA1303 instead. These are the same BJT output devices that were used on the PPI Tube Driver amplifiers. Hmmm...., these are two wildly different output topologies. Audio Engineers that design MOSFET amplifiers don't care for BJT amplifiers and vice versa. Why did Mr Butler suddenly switch? I haven't seen inside a TDB, but I would be willing to bet that the power supply topology is a fully PWM with a toroid xfmr just like the PPI Tube Driver instead of a loosely regulated E core xfmr like on the original Phaze Audio Tubedriver. Hell,I would love to get a look at the audio input/preamplifier stages. I would bet anything that he "borrowed" this too from the PPI amplifier line. His original designs use TL072 or TL074 operation amplifiers. Great Opamps in their day, but quite horrible by todays standards. The PPI amplifier used Burr-Brown Opamps, considerd to be just about the best around for "audiophile" applications. I even saw that he brags about "his"innovative heatsink design of the TDB on his website. Appears suspiciously like the way PPI did their design. Are the new Tube Driver amplifiers a great amplifier? Probably, after all he learned from the best!! BTW I personally own 2 PPI TD2150's, 2 PPI TD1250's and two PPI TD275's and I love them dearly, and I would be hard pressed to part with any of them. They have their quirks, but I am willing to live with them. John Andreen "ReedLom" wrote in message ... I may sell my Tube Driver Blue TDB475. I purchased it new directly from BK Butler on 8/4/03. It's in pristine cosmetic condition [having been mounted in an enclosed amp rack] and performs perfectly. I have the factory shipping box, packing materials and owner's manual. This is the fourth version of the Tube Driver amp. I've owned all versions; without a doubt this amp is the best of the group. The ONLY reason I'm considering the sale of this amp is to accumulate sufficient funds to buy a Denon DCT-Z1. I'm asking $750 + shipping. MSRP is $1099. I will accept payment via USPS money orders or PayPal if paid from buyer's PayPal credit balance or checking account. If you have questions, please email me at . |
#3
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For Sale: Tube Driver Blue TDB475
The original mobile audio amp designed by BK Butler was marketed by his own
company. Phaze Audio bought the rights to the Tube Driver name/design and marketed the 2nd version of the amp. After Phaze Audio bought Precision Power, the 3rd version was designed by and marketed under the PPI brand name [supposedly, PPI hired a couple of engineers away from Krell to design the amp]. Then the relationship between Phaze Audio and PPI soured and PPI was sold to ADST, the parent company of a/d/s. When a/d/s, Orion and PPI were bought by Directed Electronics [DEI], BK Butler bought back the rights to the Tube Driver name and BK redesigned the amp, giving us the 4th version. |
#4
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For Sale: Tube Driver Blue TDB475
Thanks for interest in my past and current design. Yes, this is BK
Butler, the designer of both the original circa 1995 Tube Driver (which used lateral mosfet output devices) and the current Tube Driver BLUE which does, in fact use Sanken Bi-Polar devices. "I can only recall two Butler designs. One was the original Tubedriver manuractured by Phaze Audio." Incorrect: There are actually three Tube Driver versions, the original Tube Driver and the Tube Drive BLUE versions being BK Butler designs and an in-between version that was a PPI design. The original Tube Driver was originally built by hand at Butler Audio's facility (as are the new Tube Driver BLUE amps) and later licensed to Phaze Audio. "IMHO, it was an atrocious piece. Poorly laid out PCB, bad power supply design." the power supply. It was designed in collaboration with a good friend at Echo Star whose PS designs must have better than a 1 per million failure rate. I personally know of only one unit that ever had a bad power transformer, and that was due to a vendor defect, not a design problem", poor heater design (it used the RTO lead to heat the vacuum tubes)" UNTRUE!! The heater was powered via a separate active switch. PROOF: If the heaters had been directly connected to the RTO, no head unit would have ever worked with it since the tube heaters drew about 500mA continuously, (two 6L6GC tubes with 6.3V, .9A heaters in series) "and it was a nightmare to disassemble/reassemble for repair." Only if you don't know how to disassemble/reassemble, I guess. I still service the original units from time to time, and find them quite relaxing to work on... ;) "Sounded only *OKAY*, well actually it sounded like pushing music thru sand. The second is the Tubedriver Blue that you now have. I haven't heard it but I would tend to believe that they might just sound quite stunning, considering all the technology he "borrowed" from PPI's Tube Driver designs." Here's where you REALLY need to pay attention. Whether you personally appreciate the original sound or not, thousands of owners all over the world still rave over the original TubeDriver. This is the _ONLY_ car amp STEREOPHILE ever reviewed (they liked it a lot BTW) & listen carefully he I borrowed NOTHING electrically from the PPI designers for the current Tube Driver BLUE design including the power supply! The PPI re-design (which IS the second generation) had a completely different usage of the tubes and suffered from several technical problems including instablility at high power output with chronic DC offset. It was a reasonably good first attempt at using tubes in an audio amp, but the tube sound is almost completely killed by their unfortunate use of high amounts of global negative feedback. Yes, I have changed to Sanken bipolar output power devices in the TD BLUE deisgn, but the reason is due to their extraordinary linearity, consisent beta and current transfer characteristics. PPI was wise to use them, but Sankens are widely recognized as great audio power devices. My decision to use them was made only after exhustive tests using virtually everything from Toshiba, Motorola, Sanyo, etc. Bottom line: The TDBLUE design is as different from the old PPI attempt as apples and oranges. The new Tube Driver BLUE technology was awarded a new US Patent in 2002. This would have been impossible if I had copied the PPI design. And yes, the new Tube Driver BLUE amplifiers sound is STUNNING. "I am also of the opinion that his new line of amplifiers, Tube Driver Blue are very much infused with "borrowed" PPI technology. How do I know this you ask? Ask Mr Butler why he decided to depart from using Lateral MOSFET's in his audio output section and went with SANKEN 2SC3284/2SA1303 instead. These are the same BJT output devices that were used on the PPI Tube Driver amplifiers. Hmmm...., these are two wildly different output topologies. Audio Engineers that design MOSFET amplifiers don't care for BJT amplifiers and vice versa. Why did Mr Butler suddenly switch?" I switched because I came up with a revolutionary new and novel way of obtaining the 'all tube' sound without the need for any former technology, including my own original design. Simple as that! "I haven't seen inside a TDB, but I would be willing to bet that the power supply topology is a fully PWM with a toroid xfmr just like the PPI Tube Driver instead of a loosely regulated E core xfmr like on the original Phaze Audio Tubedriver." Wrong again. The design is circular toroidial and semi-resonate/saturated with my own twist on regulation. NOTE: To date, NO power supply failures BTW... "Hell, I would love to get a look at the audio input/preamplifier stages. I would bet anything that he "borrowed" this too from the PPI amplifier line." Nope, not even close. You sure know nothing about me or my background, do you? :) (snip) "I even saw that he brags about "his"innovative heatsink design of the TDB on his website. Appears suspiciously like the way PPI did their design." Yes, I liked the way that PPI put the heatsink fins inside and mounted the cooling fan on the pcb inside, but they failed to add the wrap-around outside fins which add another 35% free cooling plus the fact that the entire heatsink structure is simplified and vastly strengthened over any former idea. "Are the new Tube Driver amplifiers a great amplifier? Probably, after all he learned from the best!!" Completely true! However this is due to an exceedingly amount of honest hard work. "The best" here refers to the many professional musicians, customers and music lovers I've colaborated with over my 25 years+ in the music industry, and definietely _NOT_ PPI's former engineers! "BTW I personally own 2 PPI TD2150's, 2 PPI TD1250's and two PPI TD275's and I love them dearly, and I would be hard pressed to part with any of them. They have their quirks, but I am willing to live with them." I then personally invite you to upgrade to the BLUE technology. It's the new state of the art in vacuum tube design. The PPI designed units were simply never developed to their full capability. Just before PPI changed hands in late '98, I was asked by their CEO to come in and correct the problems with the new line of PPI designed TDs. It's quite unfortunate I never got the chance to re-design the "re-design". PPI could then have benefited from the Tube Driver BLUE phenomenon. As it is, we at Butler Audio are now fortunate to have that opportunity. Feel free to write me personally at Best wishes, *BK Butler* -- unregistered ------------------------------------------------------------------------ CarAudioForum.com - Usenet Gateway w/over one million posts online! View this thread: http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb2/sh...hreadid=163233 |
#6
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For Sale: Tube Driver Blue TDB475
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