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#1
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solid state vs tubes?
So is there any difference between using tube amps for listening to music
than solid state? I heard there were a bunch of double blind tests and people could not tell the difference. I know there is a huge difference when it comes to guitar amps because tubes distort differently than solid state, but now we're talking about within the amp's headroom, is there a difference? -- TAI FU |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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solid state vs tubes?
This is a wide controversial subject. From when I was doing service work on
high end amplifiers, I found the high end solid state amplifiers to be very accurate. When doing characteristics tests, such as distortion, phase, frequency response and power handling tests, just to mention a few, the solid state amplifiers came out on top. The tube amplifiers generally have softer clipping when driven a little too hard. They also tend to be higher in their harmonic distortion, and phase distortion. These attributes tend to give the tube amplifier a less harsh type of sound, which is very pleasing to may audio files. For musical instrument playing, such as a guitar, my preference would be a good heavy duty tube amplifier. For listening to my favourite CD's and records, my first preference would be a good solid state amplifier. I particularly like the CMOS type amplifiers. They tend to have a similar type of gain response as the high end tube amplifier, but also have the other characteristics of the solid state amplifier. -- JANA _____ "tai fu" wrote in message ... So is there any difference between using tube amps for listening to music than solid state? I heard there were a bunch of double blind tests and people could not tell the difference. I know there is a huge difference when it comes to guitar amps because tubes distort differently than solid state, but now we're talking about within the amp's headroom, is there a difference? -- TAI FU |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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solid state vs tubes?
tai fu wrote:
So is there any difference between using tube amps for listening to music than solid state? I heard there were a bunch of double blind tests and people could not tell the difference. I know there is a huge difference when it comes to guitar amps because tubes distort differently than solid state, but now we're talking about within the amp's headroom, is there a difference? This thread is going to burn into the ground yet again, but I'll get some information in early. Well designed amps are sonically transparent, regardless of the architecture, when kept within their operating boundaries. As a general rule, tube amps clip softly and transistors clip sharply, which makes overdriven tube amps better sounding than overdriven transistor amps. You clearly know this from guitar amps. However, the odds of clipping are generally less in a transistor amp, because it's relatively easy to make a monster hundreds-of-watts-per-channel transistor amp that will make your ears bleed and your speakers fry before it clips. Also, it's possible to design an amp so badly that it's not sonically transparent. I'm aware of one high-end transistor amp that has done this, and a few tube amps. I'm sure there are other ones out there. If you have two amps that sound demonstrably different, then something is wrong with one or both of them. Either there's clipping going on, or one of them is not functioning properly (by fault or by design). Keep the tubes for creating music, and the transistors for playback. Colin |
#4
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solid state vs tubes?
"tai fu" wrote in message ... So is there any difference between using tube amps for listening to music than solid state? very little: you have to wait for the tubes to warm up. I heard there were a bunch of double blind tests and people could not tell the difference. im sorry for the blind people I know there is a huge difference when it comes to guitar amps because tubes distort differently than solid state, but now we're talking about within the amp's headroom, is there a difference? are you serious or just want to stir the pot? this is not a valid question. there are plenty of differences involving cost, size, weight, reliability, safety, RFI/EMI immunity, susceptibility to microphonics, and design to name a few. subjective differences could be debated forever... and ever |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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solid state vs tubes?
"tai fu" wrote in message ... So is there any difference between using tube amps for listening to music than solid state? I heard there were a bunch of double blind tests and people could not tell the difference. I know there is a huge difference when it comes to guitar amps because tubes distort differently than solid state, but now we're talking about within the amp's headroom, is there a difference? Naa - eveyone can tell the difference. SS every time, if you are objective abou it. geoff |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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solid state vs tubes?
"JANA" wrote in message ... This is a wide controversial subject. From when I was doing service work on high end amplifiers, I found the high end solid state amplifiers to be very accurate. When doing characteristics tests, such as distortion, phase, frequency response and power handling tests, just to mention a few, the solid state amplifiers came out on top. The tube amplifiers generally have softer clipping when driven a little too hard. If you are clippin a headphone amp , then you deseve whatever you get. Either headphone or amp abuse, or puchased an inappropriate device for your phones. geoff |
#7
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solid state vs tubes?
tai fu wrote:
So is there any difference between using tube amps for listening to music than solid state? Yes, tube amps are generally better as supplementary heat sources, which is the same as saying that solid state stuff is cheaper to run because it uses less mains power (same amplifier principle assumed). TAI FU Kind regards Peter Larsen -- ******************************************* * My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk * ******************************************* |
#8
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solid state vs tubes?
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 04:19:47 +0800, tai fu burbled:
So is there any difference between using tube amps for listening to music than solid state? I heard there were a bunch of double blind tests and people could not tell the difference. I know there is a huge difference when it comes to guitar amps because tubes distort differently than solid state, but now we're talking about within the amp's headroom, is there a difference? From a listening point of view valve amps tend to "soft clip" wheras solid state amps tend to "hard clip" - which makes the amp sound pretty bad. However, you shouldn't be running the amp into clipping anyway! I, personally, use both s/state and valves. I like both. *Good* amps of both kinds will usually sound very similar. If you have sensitive speakers (90dBW or better) then it is worth trying valves if you have the opportunity. Although they are usually lower powered than similar-priced s/state amps the soft clipping allows them to be used close to their full power rating without sounding objectionable. Even low powered valve amps (5W or so) can sound *plenty* loud enough for most people if the speakers are sensitive. -- Mick (no M$ software on here... :-) ) Web: http://www.nascom.info Web: http://projectedsound.tk |
#9
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solid state vs tubes?
Yea I got a 15w tube guitar amp and its pretty loud, I swear I could use
this stuff at a stage or something... -- TAI FU |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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solid state vs tubes?
"tai fu" wrote in message ... So is there any difference between using tube amps for listening to music than solid state? Yes. For a given power and performance level the SS amp is likely to be smaller, lighter, cheaper, more reliable and more efficient. I heard there were a bunch of double blind tests and people could not tell the difference. I suspect that there are tests that have gone both ways. I know there is a huge difference when it comes to guitar amps because tubes distort differently than solid state, but now we're talking about within the amp's headroom, is there a difference? It all depends. There are enough different kind of tube amps that they can't all be put in the same class. For example compare the McIntosh MC275 which was designed to be sonically accurate, with a SET amp that was basically designed to violate just about every design rule related to sonic accuracy. |
#11
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solid state vs tubes?
In message , tai fu
writes Yea I got a 15w tube guitar amp and its pretty loud, I swear I could use this stuff at a stage or something... -- TAI FU I have an old Telefunken Valve Radio, (the one with the two elliptical speakers on the front and a one tweeter elliptical speaker each side, model called "Opus"), and apart from the wonderful FM sound it has only eight watts per channel and yet could blow you out of the room. I am a non-tech person so I will leave it to others here to describe why its so good. It also is a lovely piece of furniture and of course I shall never sell it. -- Derrick Fawsitt |
#12
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solid state vs tubes?
"Derrick Fawsitt" wrote in message ... I have an old Telefunken Valve Radio, (the one with the two elliptical speakers on the front and a one tweeter elliptical speaker each side, model called "Opus"), and apart from the wonderful FM sound it has only eight watts per channel and yet could blow you out of the room. I am a non-tech person so I will leave it to others here to describe why its so good. It also is a lovely piece of furniture and of course I shall never sell it. I have a 500 mW transistor radio with 3" speaker that "blows you out of the room". Yet my Hi-Fi needs 100 times that much to do the same :-) Of course the actual measured SPL in the latter case is about 20 dB higher. Isn't the human brain an amazing thing! MrT. |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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solid state vs tubes?
"tai fu" wrote in message ... So is there any difference between using tube amps for listening to music than solid state? **Dollar for Dollar? Yes. SS is less expensive for the same performance. SS amps can more easily built to offere superior load tolerance as well. I heard there were a bunch of double blind tests and people could not tell the difference. **Of course. I took part in a single blind test between several amps. One was a tube amp. It was vitually impossible to pick the tube amp from the two SS amps. Of course, the tube amp was three times the cost. Additionally, the load impedance was relatively 'easy'. I know there is a huge difference when it comes to guitar amps because tubes distort differently than solid state, **Nope. That is an old wive's tale. It is the topolgy which largely dictates how an amp responds to overload. It is quite possible to build SS amps which overload similarly to SOME tube amps. but now we're talking about within the amp's headroom, is there a difference? **Measurably? Almost certainly. Audibly, it depends on circumstances. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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solid state vs tubes?
In , on 01/17/06
at 10:56 AM, "Mr.T" MrT@home said: [ ... ] I have a 500 mW transistor radio with 3" speaker that "blows you out of the room". Yet my Hi-Fi needs 100 times that much to do the same :-) Of course the actual measured SPL in the latter case is about 20 dB higher. Isn't the human brain an amazing thing! I think we tend to equate distorted with "loud". I often think that we could save ourselves a lot of trouble if an amplifier would "bend" things a bit before clipping. This way the system could sound "loud" without damaging anything. In my college days we had a small room and a system that could play (cleanly) at enough levels that one needed to cup one's hands and yell into a person's ear to be understood -- yet we would receive requests to "turn it up" because it didn't seem "loud". The same group of listeners in a different venue using a dreadful little "box" playing as loudly as it could, unimaginably distorted and no one said "turn it up" -- it was "loud" -- yet conversation was easy. In one situation I received numerous complaints that the system would not play "loud" enough. When I visited the site, everyone was hoarse from trying to talk over the sound, and the customer's comment was, "see, that's all the louder it gets." (It was clean sounding and I never imagined he could get that kind of level without blowing something up.) ----------------------------------------------------------- spam: wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15 13 (Barry Mann) [sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox] ----------------------------------------------------------- |
#15
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solid state vs tubes?
"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message u... "Derrick Fawsitt" wrote in message ... I have an old Telefunken Valve Radio, (the one with the two elliptical speakers on the front and a one tweeter elliptical speaker each side, model called "Opus"), and apart from the wonderful FM sound it has only eight watts per channel and yet could blow you out of the room. I am a non-tech person so I will leave it to others here to describe why its so good. It also is a lovely piece of furniture and of course I shall never sell it. I have a 500 mW transistor radio with 3" speaker that "blows you out of the room". Narrow bandwidth, high efficiency speaker. Yet my Hi-Fi needs 100 times that much to do the same :-) Broad bandwidth, low efficiency speaker. Of course the actual measured SPL in the latter case is about 20 dB higher. But, one is shaped to fit over the parts of the audio spectrum where the ear is most sensitive. Isn't the human brain an amazing thing! Actually, this one is settled in the ear. |
#16
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solid state vs tubes?
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#17
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solid state vs tubes?
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. I have a 500 mW transistor radio with 3" speaker that "blows you out of the room". Narrow bandwidth, high efficiency speaker. Actually the main speakers have higher efficiency. Barry Mann hit the nail on what I was alluding to. Yet my Hi-Fi needs 100 times that much to do the same :-) Broad bandwidth, low efficiency speaker. Nope, mains are 93 dB/watt/metre. Of course the actual measured SPL in the latter case is about 20 dB higher. But, one is shaped to fit over the parts of the audio spectrum where the ear is most sensitive. Maybe it has no bass or treble, but you already allow for that pretty much in the measurement weighting curve. You could do a very narrow band measurement, and the transistor would still be nearly 20 dB lower. Isn't the human brain an amazing thing! Actually, this one is settled in the ear. Call it the auditory system maybe, but the brain is definitely the main factor here. MrT. |
#18
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solid state vs tubes?
"Barry Mann" wrote in message om... I have a 500 mW transistor radio with 3" speaker that "blows you out of the room". Yet my Hi-Fi needs 100 times that much to do the same :-) Of course the actual measured SPL in the latter case is about 20 dB higher. Isn't the human brain an amazing thing! I think we tend to equate distorted with "loud". Exactly. MrT. |
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