[David Grant]

I'm recording a female jazz vocalist with piano accompaniment in a living
room. I'm a big proponent of the "live off the floor" technique with main
pair and spot mics that Peter Larsen has turned me on to (we'll call it the
"old-fashioned technique"), but I'm having doubts about using it here.

In my experience the sacrifice with the old-fashioned technique is sound
quality of the individual instrument for the sake of the continuity of the
overall sound. Jazz instrumentalists especially seem more interested in the
latter. I get the impression jazz vocalists are a little different in this
regard, leaning more towards the capturing of the subtleties and quality of
their individual voice. What's your experience with this?

Though I've never recorded jazz vocals before, my experience with vocals in
general is that even with the most suitable mic in my locker and the best
placement I can find that EQ and compression are necessary to get acceptable
results. I've only recorded pop vocals in the past and they were always done
in isolation for flexibility's sake.

The room is your average hardwood floor, 9' ceiling medium-large sized
living room. I have a bunch of portable 4" rockwool panels that I can set up
wherever, and I've made it sound O.K in the past.

The main players in my mic locker a

2x Josephson c42
2x AKG c480 w/ (2x cardiod and 2x omni capsuls)

I will rent whatever else I decide I need.

I guess I'm looking for general recommendations on where to start with this,
and what to try. Are there tried and true ways to arrange the piano and
vocalist and mics on the floor that will likely minimize struggles?

[Scott Dorsey]

In article ,
David Grant wrote:
I'm recording a female jazz vocalist with piano accompaniment in a living
room. I'm a big proponent of the "live off the floor" technique with main
pair and spot mics that Peter Larsen has turned me on to (we'll call it the
"old-fashioned technique"), but I'm having doubts about using it here.

In my experience the sacrifice with the old-fashioned technique is sound
quality of the individual instrument for the sake of the continuity of the
overall sound. Jazz instrumentalists especially seem more interested in the
latter. I get the impression jazz vocalists are a little different in this
regard, leaning more towards the capturing of the subtleties and quality of
their individual voice. What's your experience with this?

I do this kind of thing all the time.

You CAN do the whole thing with one pair, but it won't sound the way a lot
of people expect jazz vocals to be.

You can also mike the room with one pair and add a spot on the vocals.

Though I've never recorded jazz vocals before, my experience with vocals in
general is that even with the most suitable mic in my locker and the best
placement I can find that EQ and compression are necessary to get acceptable
results. I've only recorded pop vocals in the past and they were always done
in isolation for flexibility's sake.

You need to work with better vocalists, then. It's lots of fun to do the
simple stuff.

The room is your average hardwood floor, 9' ceiling medium-large sized
living room. I have a bunch of portable 4" rockwool panels that I can set up
wherever, and I've made it sound O.K in the past.

The main players in my mic locker a

2x Josephson c42
2x AKG c480 w/ (2x cardiod and 2x omni capsuls)

I will rent whatever else I decide I need.

I guess I'm looking for general recommendations on where to start with this,

Throw up the C480, then try an RE-20 or an old RCA ribbon on the vocal.
You may have play a little bit with position unless you have a way to
delay the main pair with respect to the vocal mike.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[genericaudioperson]

A lot of classic jazz recordings were done with three track. Two mics
to capture the instruments, and one close up on the vocal soloists.
The third mic could be used for mono recording releases.

Consider a mid-side configuration on the piano, and a Neumann M-149 on
the solo vocalist. Mercury Records used to use 3 omni mics. Gobos
were a big deal "back in the day".

I think your best starting point is to use a gobo to reasonably
separate the vocalist from the piano. Use a mid-side on the piano,
and the M-149 on the vocalist.

So the question is what to use for the figure-8. Ribbons have that
classic figure-8 thing going for them. But consider a U-87. You can
rent a U-87 and an M-149. Combining those two mics with what you
have, and I think you have everything you need to find your sound.

If I walked into a recording session and saw an M-149, a U-87 and a
c42, I definitely would not think I was "slumming it". I would be
delighted actually.

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

David Grant wrote:

I'm recording a female jazz vocalist with piano accompaniment in a
living room. I'm a big proponent of the "live off the floor"
technique with main pair and spot mics that Peter Larsen has turned
me on to (we'll call it the "old-fashioned technique"), but I'm
having doubts about using it here.

This is not about a lied recording. If it was, then a single pair should be
what you tried first. Listeners are however too used to poor sound and to
distant from the concert hall to readily accept the moving image that will
be the result. That is where the spot mics get relevant, nor for the
balance, but for image stability.

In my experience the sacrifice with the old-fashioned technique is
sound quality of the individual instrument for the sake of the
continuity of the overall sound. Jazz instrumentalists especially
seem more interested in the latter. I get the impression jazz
vocalists are a little different in this regard, leaning more towards
the capturing of the subtleties and quality of their individual
voice. What's your experience with this?

A jazz vocalist is likely to be used to singing with a microphone and not
quite as likely to be able to project as a real singer. Some singers may be
great jazz vocalists ...

I'm gonna stick a pair into a small upright, and use a MCA SP1 with external
spit shield for the vocalist and the flute and use a room pair when
multitracking chanson's in a large living room this january. Different
techniques are appropiate for different genres.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Mark]

A jazz vocalist is likely to be used to singing with a microphone and not
quite as likely to be able to project as a real singer. Some singers may be
great jazz vocalists ...

I'm gonna stick a pair into a small upright, and use a MCA SP1 with external
spit shield for the vocalist and the flute and use a room pair when
multitracking chanson's in a large living room this january. Different
techniques are appropiate for different genres.

* Kind regards

* Peter Larsen

if your recorder has enough tracks, record it both ways.

Mark

[Richard Crowley]

"Mark" wrote ...
if your recorder has enough tracks, record it both ways.

Definitely. Might as well exploit modern technology.
Don't commit yourself to a live mixdown unless you
are doing a live broadcast or something.

Nothing to stop your from ALSO doing a live mix
just to keep your hand in, etc.

[Richard Crowley]

"Peter Larsen" wrote...
David Grant wrote:
I'm recording a female jazz vocalist with piano accompaniment in a
living room. I'm a big proponent of the "live off the floor"
technique with main pair and spot mics that Peter Larsen has turned
me on to (we'll call it the "old-fashioned technique"), but I'm
having doubts about using it here.

This is not about a lied recording. If it was, then a single pair should
be
what you tried first. Listeners are however too used to poor sound and to
distant from the concert hall to readily accept the moving image that will
be the result. That is where the spot mics get relevant, nor for the
balance, but for image stability.

Not clear what would be the cause of the "moving image"?
Will the vocalist be strolling around while singing?

Assuming the piano wheels will be locked while performing. :-)

(Unless you are reproducing the famous rolling piano scene
from "The Legend of 1900" (aka. "La Leggenda del pianista
sull'oceano" I paid a premium just to get the Italian release
of the original sound-track CD. That movie has some great
music in it. And even a mobile disk lathe on board the ship.

[zero[_3_]]

"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
...
"Peter Larsen" wrote...

Not clear what would be the cause of the "moving image"?
Will the vocalist be strolling around while singing?

Assuming the piano wheels will be locked while performing. :-)

(Unless you are reproducing the famous rolling piano scene
from "The Legend of 1900" (aka. "La Leggenda del pianista
sull'oceano" I paid a premium just to get the Italian release
of the original sound-track CD. That movie has some great
music in it. And even a mobile disk lathe on board the ship.

Yes! one of the most all-time underrated movies I've seen.

-zero

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Richard Crowley wrote:


[quoting me]

This is not about a lied recording. If it was, then a single pair
should be what you tried first. Listeners are however too used
to poor sound and to distant from the concert hall to readily
accept the moving image that will be the result. That is where
the spot mics get relevant, nor for the balance, but for image
stability.

Not clear what would be the cause of the "moving image"?
Will the vocalist be strolling around while singing?

Any directional sound source, a violin, a flute, a cello and a singer are
good examples, will appear to move in a single pair recording if its
direction of radiation is changed as it always will be during a performance.
Close your eyes and listen when to a chamber music concert.

Because of concert logistics I ended up with a modified ortf pair on the
soloists in Bach's Christmas Oratorium, parts 1,2,5,6 today, based on the
monitor mix that will make it possible to give them definition and put them
closer to the center of the image via a narrow pan of those tracks while
preserving a bit of real world image unstability.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen