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#1
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
Ok, I had them crossed over at 3500 Hz at 12 dB per octave using a Coustix
XM-3 crossover. The amp I was using to drive the pair was a Jensen A46XP (60 watts X 2 RMS). I THOUGHT that was a high enough X-over point. Obviously I was mistaken. My wife was showing off the system to a friend of hers at work when it happened and she says they were REALLY CRANKING (she said like ear bleeding levels) it for over 15-20 minutes, but no audible distortion or crackling or other indications of distress they said. Before, I had turned it way up a number of times with no problems. Besides the obvious, too low a X-over point, any ideas as to why they blew? Too much power? I intend to buy another pair of the same tweets (because I LOVED the sound) and I DO NOT want to make the same mistake so any advice would be welcome. Thanks guys. Nick aka MOSFET |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
Really dumb question to follow:
What rms are they rated for? ~Mister.Lull MOSFET wrote: Ok, I had them crossed over at 3500 Hz at 12 dB per octave using a Coustix XM-3 crossover. The amp I was using to drive the pair was a Jensen A46XP (60 watts X 2 RMS). I THOUGHT that was a high enough X-over point. Obviously I was mistaken. My wife was showing off the system to a friend of hers at work when it happened and she says they were REALLY CRANKING (she said like ear bleeding levels) it for over 15-20 minutes, but no audible distortion or crackling or other indications of distress they said. Before, I had turned it way up a number of times with no problems. Besides the obvious, too low a X-over point, any ideas as to why they blew? Too much power? I intend to buy another pair of the same tweets (because I LOVED the sound) and I DO NOT want to make the same mistake so any advice would be welcome. Thanks guys. Nick aka MOSFET |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
MOSFET wrote: Ok, I had them crossed over at 3500 Hz at 12 dB per octave using a Coustix XM-3 crossover. The amp I was using to drive the pair was a Jensen A46XP (60 watts X 2 RMS). I THOUGHT that was a high enough X-over point. Obviously I was mistaken. My wife was showing off the system to a friend of hers at work when it happened and she says they were REALLY CRANKING (she said like ear bleeding levels) it for over 15-20 minutes, but no audible distortion or crackling or other indications of distress they said. Before, I had turned it way up a number of times with no problems. Besides the obvious, too low a X-over point, any ideas as to why they blew? Too much power? I intend to buy another pair of the same tweets (because I LOVED the sound) and I DO NOT want to make the same mistake so any advice would be welcome. Thanks guys. Nick aka MOSFET 3500 at 12db seems like a reasonable crossover rate. Maybe the amp spiked? Driving the amp at that level with a delicate driver its possible. |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
That's not a dumb question and I should have included that with the info.
They are rated for 50 watts RMS, 125 watts peak so I THOUGHT my 60 watt amp would be OK. Perhaps not. Perhaps I should be using a MUCH smaller amp. This is the kind of advice I would like. ESPECIALLY IF ANYONE HAS EVER BI-AMPED A SET OF JL VR SEPARATES. I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW WHAT POWER AMPS WERE USED. Maybe I should be using a 30 watt per channel amp to drive them. Thanks, MOSFET "Mister.Lull" wrote in message ups.com... Really dumb question to follow: What rms are they rated for? ~Mister.Lull MOSFET wrote: Ok, I had them crossed over at 3500 Hz at 12 dB per octave using a Coustix XM-3 crossover. The amp I was using to drive the pair was a Jensen A46XP (60 watts X 2 RMS). I THOUGHT that was a high enough X-over point. Obviously I was mistaken. My wife was showing off the system to a friend of hers at work when it happened and she says they were REALLY CRANKING (she said like ear bleeding levels) it for over 15-20 minutes, but no audible distortion or crackling or other indications of distress they said. Before, I had turned it way up a number of times with no problems. Besides the obvious, too low a X-over point, any ideas as to why they blew? Too much power? I intend to buy another pair of the same tweets (because I LOVED the sound) and I DO NOT want to make the same mistake so any advice would be welcome. Thanks guys. Nick aka MOSFET |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
MOSFET: Your Kidding Right? didn't you JUST get these tweeters? i seem to remember reading you bragging about installing them just the other day. how saddening! how disgustingly saddening! i am so sorry to here about your lose :lol: |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
well, just FYI, I am using a small sony amp (25w X2) to power my JL:XR100-CT tweeters, and they sound absolutely fabulous and they are rated for 70W continuous and 175W peak, if that helps any? and i've been playing them for over a year, and no flaws so far (knock on wood) and they absolutely scream! with that sort of power, using the C/O from the XR525-CSi componets set, Bi-Amp'ed Just FYI. |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
Yes, I just got them and I REALLY LOVED them. My wife was crazy about them
as well as she could hear detail in her music she had never heard before (because we could turn the treble up louder without that abrasive quality of the Quarts). I am very sad. MOSFET "winkenstein" wrote in message ups.com... MOSFET: Your Kidding Right? didn't you JUST get these tweeters? i seem to remember reading you bragging about installing them just the other day. how saddening! how disgustingly saddening! i am so sorry to here about your lose :lol: |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
well, just FYI,
I am using a small sony amp (25w X2) to power my JL:XR100-CT tweeters, and they sound absolutely fabulous and they are rated for 70W continuous and 175W peak, if that helps any? Thanks! That helps alot, actually. I have decided to change amplifiers when I get my new pair of JL's. I was thinking of about 30 watts per channel. You are absolutely right, they just don't need a lot power despite what they are rated for, and it appears it is dangerous to operate them even a little past their rated power. Thanks. Nick |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
After all that's been said, all that I can say is ROFL.
In article , "MOSFET" wrote: Ok, I had them crossed over at 3500 Hz at 12 dB per octave using a Coustix XM-3 crossover. The amp I was using to drive the pair was a Jensen A46XP (60 watts X 2 RMS). I THOUGHT that was a high enough X-over point. Obviously I was mistaken. My wife was showing off the system to a friend of hers at work when it happened and she says they were REALLY CRANKING (she said like ear bleeding levels) it for over 15-20 minutes, but no audible distortion or crackling or other indications of distress they said. Before, I had turned it way up a number of times with no problems. Besides the obvious, too low a X-over point, any ideas as to why they blew? Too much power? I intend to buy another pair of the same tweets (because I LOVED the sound) and I DO NOT want to make the same mistake so any advice would be welcome. Thanks guys. Nick aka MOSFET |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
Well ... in my opinion you were crossing them over too low with only a 12db
slope. I had mentioned this before (see my reply to your post below about which tweeters to get) but most tweeters should usually be crossed over at least two octaves above their free air resonance. Since these tweeters have an Fs of 1800hz you are looking at a xover in the neigborhood of 5000 to 5400hz. In fact, JL's passive crossover for these uses a 12db Butterworth filter at 5000hz. These are 3/4" tweeters and should not be playing at too high a level down in the 2500hz region, which a 3500hz xover allows. They sound really good crossed over at 5000hz by the way. The second thing I would mention is that I would not for a second trust the frequency calibrations on inexpensive xovers designed around variable pots. They just do not have tight tolerances. It is entirely feasible that you were crossing over well below 3500hz. These pots have tolerance rates in the 20 to 25% range. If it were me, and I was still going to use that xover, I would keep the filter point at least at 5000hz. Either that or get a more precise xover with a steeper filter. BTW, I use 2 channels of an Excelon 501F to power these same JL tweeters. It is rated at a minimum of 75 wpc and more likely puts out more. The thing is, you will probably never put many watts to a tweeter in the 4000hz range. But there is plenty of energy in the 2000 hz range. There are a few tweeters that can successfully be crossed over at 2750 to 3500 hz but this is not one of them. It has nothing to do with their sound quality, it is just the way they were designed. - RG "MOSFET" wrote in message m... Ok, I had them crossed over at 3500 Hz at 12 dB per octave using a Coustix XM-3 crossover. The amp I was using to drive the pair was a Jensen A46XP (60 watts X 2 RMS). I THOUGHT that was a high enough X-over point. Obviously I was mistaken. My wife was showing off the system to a friend of hers at work when it happened and she says they were REALLY CRANKING (she said like ear bleeding levels) it for over 15-20 minutes, but no audible distortion or crackling or other indications of distress they said. Before, I had turned it way up a number of times with no problems. Besides the obvious, too low a X-over point, any ideas as to why they blew? Too much power? I intend to buy another pair of the same tweets (because I LOVED the sound) and I DO NOT want to make the same mistake so any advice would be welcome. Thanks guys. Nick aka MOSFET |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
My two cents,
The tweeters were crossed over at 500hz less then what they should of been by spec. This lowered the power handling of the tweeters. The system was more then likely cranked up with the engine off or at idle. His outdated class A/B amp sucked the system power dry, the amp clipped, that was the end of his tweeters. Like I said before the cleanness of these cheap amps have a very small window especially when you drive them at lower voltages then normal. Seeing Misfit's pics his battery is an older Optima that more then likely due to age is not up to spec and the factory charging systems in those trucks aren't worth a damn and even more so at idle. Nick aka MOSFET 3500 at 12db seems like a reasonable crossover rate. Maybe the amp spiked? Driving the amp at that level with a delicate driver its possible. |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
MOSFET wrote: Ok, I had them crossed over at 3500 Hz at 12 dB per octave using a Coustix XM-3 crossover. The amp I was using to drive the pair was a Jensen A46XP (60 watts X 2 RMS). I THOUGHT that was a high enough X-over point. Obviously I was mistaken. My wife was showing off the system to a friend of hers at work when it happened and she says they were REALLY CRANKING (she said like ear bleeding levels) it for over 15-20 minutes, but no audible distortion or crackling or other indications of distress they said. Before, I had turned it way up a number of times with no problems. Besides the obvious, too low a X-over point, any ideas as to why they blew? Too much power? I intend to buy another pair of the same tweets (because I LOVED the sound) and I DO NOT want to make the same mistake so any advice would be welcome. Thanks guys. Nick aka MOSFET Maybe try a steeper slope like 18dB/Oct or 24dB/Oct I Much prefer 24dB/Oct for protection and phase response purposes. Now see, if you could lose the rear speakers like a real SQ guy you would not need that coustic crossover eh? Just use the Alpine Chad |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
That's good advice. I will cross them over much higher next time, AT LEAST
4500 Hz I would think. MOSFET "RG" wrote in message ... Well ... in my opinion you were crossing them over too low with only a 12db slope. I had mentioned this before (see my reply to your post below about which tweeters to get) but most tweeters should usually be crossed over at least two octaves above their free air resonance. Since these tweeters have an Fs of 1800hz you are looking at a xover in the neigborhood of 5000 to 5400hz. In fact, JL's passive crossover for these uses a 12db Butterworth filter at 5000hz. These are 3/4" tweeters and should not be playing at too high a level down in the 2500hz region, which a 3500hz xover allows. They sound really good crossed over at 5000hz by the way. The second thing I would mention is that I would not for a second trust the frequency calibrations on inexpensive xovers designed around variable pots. They just do not have tight tolerances. It is entirely feasible that you were crossing over well below 3500hz. These pots have tolerance rates in the 20 to 25% range. If it were me, and I was still going to use that xover, I would keep the filter point at least at 5000hz. Either that or get a more precise xover with a steeper filter. BTW, I use 2 channels of an Excelon 501F to power these same JL tweeters. It is rated at a minimum of 75 wpc and more likely puts out more. The thing is, you will probably never put many watts to a tweeter in the 4000hz range. But there is plenty of energy in the 2000 hz range. There are a few tweeters that can successfully be crossed over at 2750 to 3500 hz but this is not one of them. It has nothing to do with their sound quality, it is just the way they were designed. - RG "MOSFET" wrote in message m... Ok, I had them crossed over at 3500 Hz at 12 dB per octave using a Coustix XM-3 crossover. The amp I was using to drive the pair was a Jensen A46XP (60 watts X 2 RMS). I THOUGHT that was a high enough X-over point. Obviously I was mistaken. My wife was showing off the system to a friend of hers at work when it happened and she says they were REALLY CRANKING (she said like ear bleeding levels) it for over 15-20 minutes, but no audible distortion or crackling or other indications of distress they said. Before, I had turned it way up a number of times with no problems. Besides the obvious, too low a X-over point, any ideas as to why they blew? Too much power? I intend to buy another pair of the same tweets (because I LOVED the sound) and I DO NOT want to make the same mistake so any advice would be welcome. Thanks guys. Nick aka MOSFET |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
After all that's been said, all that I can say is ROFL.
You're really a jerk, do you that? That's my $.02. Why don't you leave and find another newsgroup where you can laugh at other's problems, you prick. Nick |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
bah... get better tweeters or a better crossover. I have been running a
pair of a/d/s/ cs tweeters (from the 346cs system) with my XES system, using a freaking PCX-280 for power just on the tweeters. Now, the slope is MUCH steeper (36 or 72 dB/octave, I forget which but something silly high like that) but I am using way more power than you were (the 280 is good for well over 100 WPC driving a 4 ohm load) and I have played with crossover points between 2.5kHz and up into the high 3kHz range with zero damage. I think I settled on something around 2.8kHz for normal use. I occasionally like to torture the system - and my ears! - with something really offensive and nasty like Humble Pie's 30 days in the Hole or Grand Funk Railroad Inside Looking Out, which (if I got the title right) has about a 5 minute guitar solo that sounds like it was recorded with about 20% of intentional distortion. Intros to Aerosmith's Mama Kin or Guns & Roses Sweet Child O' Mine lights them up really nice, too. I am talking about playing the system cranked to levels that would be respectable if you were standing close to the stage at a live event, and zero damage to the tweeters in over 2 years. I have killed one sub (1000W PPI DCX-124) by getting stupid with a Sub Zone bass CD, and a pair of 6.5" mids (one had a defective v/c and just died, the other one I BBQ'd one day while they were high-passed at 78Hz where I usually use 88Hz). I am running the tweeters unprotected, directly off the outputs of the amp. I had similar results with an older system using our old DEI Studio 25mm silk domes - ran them biamped at 3.5kHz with about 65WPC power and never had any problems. That was also an XES system, so same steep slope. Done right this sounds exceptional and if the tweeter isn't too wimpy, will take a fair amount of listener abuse w/o dying. Also helps to not clip the amp, which makes me question you backing up to a smaller one than you have now. I'd stick thermal breakers (polyswitches) in series before I went smaller on the power. JD MOSFET wrote: well, just FYI, I am using a small sony amp (25w X2) to power my JL:XR100-CT tweeters, and they sound absolutely fabulous and they are rated for 70W continuous and 175W peak, if that helps any? Thanks! That helps alot, actually. I have decided to change amplifiers when I get my new pair of JL's. I was thinking of about 30 watts per channel. You are absolutely right, they just don't need a lot power despite what they are rated for, and it appears it is dangerous to operate them even a little past their rated power. Thanks. Nick |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
I think I will look at ADS. I am beginning to wonder if I just plain need a
power powerful tweeter. I have always liked the sound of ADS speakers. Thanks for the feedback. MOSFET "John Durbin" wrote in message ... bah... get better tweeters or a better crossover. I have been running a pair of a/d/s/ cs tweeters (from the 346cs system) with my XES system, using a freaking PCX-280 for power just on the tweeters. Now, the slope is MUCH steeper (36 or 72 dB/octave, I forget which but something silly high like that) but I am using way more power than you were (the 280 is good for well over 100 WPC driving a 4 ohm load) and I have played with crossover points between 2.5kHz and up into the high 3kHz range with zero damage. I think I settled on something around 2.8kHz for normal use. I occasionally like to torture the system - and my ears! - with something really offensive and nasty like Humble Pie's 30 days in the Hole or Grand Funk Railroad Inside Looking Out, which (if I got the title right) has about a 5 minute guitar solo that sounds like it was recorded with about 20% of intentional distortion. Intros to Aerosmith's Mama Kin or Guns & Roses Sweet Child O' Mine lights them up really nice, too. I am talking about playing the system cranked to levels that would be respectable if you were standing close to the stage at a live event, and zero damage to the tweeters in over 2 years. I have killed one sub (1000W PPI DCX-124) by getting stupid with a Sub Zone bass CD, and a pair of 6.5" mids (one had a defective v/c and just died, the other one I BBQ'd one day while they were high-passed at 78Hz where I usually use 88Hz). I am running the tweeters unprotected, directly off the outputs of the amp. I had similar results with an older system using our old DEI Studio 25mm silk domes - ran them biamped at 3.5kHz with about 65WPC power and never had any problems. That was also an XES system, so same steep slope. Done right this sounds exceptional and if the tweeter isn't too wimpy, will take a fair amount of listener abuse w/o dying. Also helps to not clip the amp, which makes me question you backing up to a smaller one than you have now. I'd stick thermal breakers (polyswitches) in series before I went smaller on the power. JD MOSFET wrote: well, just FYI, I am using a small sony amp (25w X2) to power my JL:XR100-CT tweeters, and they sound absolutely fabulous and they are rated for 70W continuous and 175W peak, if that helps any? Thanks! That helps alot, actually. I have decided to change amplifiers when I get my new pair of JL's. I was thinking of about 30 watts per channel. You are absolutely right, they just don't need a lot power despite what they are rated for, and it appears it is dangerous to operate them even a little past their rated power. Thanks. Nick |
#17
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
Listen up swapshop dick, I mean nick. Life sucks when it's got you by the
balls. I don't laugh at other's problems, I laugh at you mr.SQ. I told you to get a JBL compression horn the last time around. Some people have to do things and learn things the hard way, and yeah it's funny as ****. Tweedle-Dee, Tweedle-Dum you blown a 2nd set of tweeters, that's just ****ing dumb!!!! In article , "MOSFET" wrote: After all that's been said, all that I can say is ROFL. You're really a jerk, do you that? That's my $.02. Why don't you leave and find another newsgroup where you can laugh at other's problems, you prick. Nick |
#18
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
mosfet you know they are laughing at you at her work right.......
you want me to take advice from a guy who wires up a system that blows? lol i'm never blown anything in 20 yrs..not once..... wait i did have a pair of 4'' sparkomatics subs that stoped working. but that happen while they were off. they just never turned back on. n they were good speakers too. i miss them to this day.they were powered subs too. But thats it.... guess they were alil cheap brand thou..not very suprised... |
#19
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
thd kills..at high volumes..with that amp i bet you were getting over
75thd ... |
#20
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
That really, really sucks, Nick!!
Why aren't you crossing those over actively, using an amp with an adjustable electronic xover? It will sound better and you'll have absolute control over the xover point. How high was the gain set on the amp? I would assume that even if your gain was moderately set, those tweeters would never actually see the likes of 60w per channel...and even if they did, it would only be for very short periods of time. Weird. My PG amps are rated at 75w per channel, and my Dyn tweets are crossed over actively, I believe at 4500Hz or something like that. But unlike yours, mine are rated (according to Dynaudio) at 20 - 150 watts continuous power. Sorry about your tweets. I know you loved them. What's even cooler, is that your wife was showing your system off. That's WAY cool!! Tony -- 2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition Clarion DRZ9255 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and Xenon X1200.1 Amplifiers, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, Image Dynamics IDMAX10 D4 v.3 Sub 2001 Chevy S10 ZR2 Pioneer DEH-P9600MP Head Unit, Phoenix Gold Ti500.4 Amp, Focal 165HC Speakers & Image Dynamics ID8 D4 v.3 Sub 2006 Mustang GT Coupe Alpine IVA-D310 DVD Head Unit, Alpine MRA-550 Digital 5.1 Amp, Boston Acoustics Z-Series Speakers, Alpine SBS-05DC Center Channel Speaker, Amplified MTX Thunderform Sub |
#21
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
"MOSFET" wrote in message news I think I will look at ADS. I am beginning to wonder if I just plain need a power powerful tweeter. I have always liked the sound of ADS speakers. Thanks for the feedback. MOSFET MOSFET....Did you get my e-mail? Chad |
#22
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
meant .75thd. thats the lowest that amp was getting at max power...
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#23
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
Hi Nick,
Sorry to hear about your tweets... I just reread the owners manual on my new XR525s and they specifically say to use the xover *even when biamping.* When the Godfather (http://www.theautophile.com) used to post up here, he often mentioned putting a cap on Dynaudio tweeters when biamping. Not for xover purposes... mostly to avoid DC offset on the amplifier. Maybe this is what bit you... less expensive amps tend to have more DC offset and this can cause problems. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_offset http://tangentsoft.net/audio/input-cap.html I'd rather have too much power than not enough... smiles, Jamie On 2006-07-17 15:51:45 -0700, "MOSFET" said: Ok, I had them crossed over at 3500 Hz at 12 dB per octave using a Coustix XM-3 crossover. The amp I was using to drive the pair was a Jensen A46XP (60 watts X 2 RMS). I THOUGHT that was a high enough X-over point. Obviously I was mistaken. My wife was showing off the system to a friend of hers at work when it happened and she says they were REALLY CRANKING (she said like ear bleeding levels) it for over 15-20 minutes, but no audible distortion or crackling or other indications of distress they said. Before, I had turned it way up a number of times with no problems. Besides the obvious, too low a X-over point, any ideas as to why they blew? Too much power? I intend to buy another pair of the same tweets (because I LOVED the sound) and I DO NOT want to make the same mistake so any advice would be welcome. Thanks guys. Nick aka MOSFET |
#24
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
you can overpower anything 30% if its clean enough. i think....
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#25
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
That's a new one, i.e., THD kills. Bob, do you even have the slightest
inkling of what you are talking about ? - RG "bob wald" wrote in message ... thd kills..at high volumes..with that amp i bet you were getting over 75thd ... |
#26
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
Thanks Chad. I am definitely going to try a higher cut-off frequency but
I'm kind of stuck with the XM-3 for now which has only a 12 dB slope. My wife allows me to spend only so much on stereo gear a month and now I have to buy new tweets (and I have a home theater to support, SO MANY MOUTHS TO FEED!). You ARE absolutely right, however (you do know your Alpine Bass Engine Pro!) about eliminating my rear-fill and using my HU's onboard X-over in three-way mode. I would then have the option of an 18 or 24 dB X-over in a three-way configuration. But I REALLY like the sound rear-fill gives me. It raises my soundstage from around the lower dash to around the lower windshield. keep in mind, my tweeters are mounted right next to my woofers in the doors. HOWEVER (and this is something I have NEVER thought of), I could split the midrange output and run that to my rear-fill. As I'm using the same midbass speakers in the rear as I'm using in front, that should sound fine. That's a killer idea, actually! Thanks Chad! You gave me something new to consider! MOSFET "Chad Wahls" wrote in message oups.com... MOSFET wrote: Ok, I had them crossed over at 3500 Hz at 12 dB per octave using a Coustix XM-3 crossover. The amp I was using to drive the pair was a Jensen A46XP (60 watts X 2 RMS). I THOUGHT that was a high enough X-over point. Obviously I was mistaken. My wife was showing off the system to a friend of hers at work when it happened and she says they were REALLY CRANKING (she said like ear bleeding levels) it for over 15-20 minutes, but no audible distortion or crackling or other indications of distress they said. Before, I had turned it way up a number of times with no problems. Besides the obvious, too low a X-over point, any ideas as to why they blew? Too much power? I intend to buy another pair of the same tweets (because I LOVED the sound) and I DO NOT want to make the same mistake so any advice would be welcome. Thanks guys. Nick aka MOSFET Maybe try a steeper slope like 18dB/Oct or 24dB/Oct I Much prefer 24dB/Oct for protection and phase response purposes. Now see, if you could lose the rear speakers like a real SQ guy you would not need that coustic crossover eh? Just use the Alpine Chad |
#27
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
"Captain Howdy" wrote in message ... Listen up swapshop dick, I mean nick. Life sucks when it's got you by the balls. I don't laugh at other's problems, I laugh at you mr.SQ. I told you to get a JBL compression horn the last time around. Some people have to do things and learn things the hard way, and yeah it's funny as ****. Oh yeah, it's a hoot. You're an idiot. Stop replying to my posts. Nick |
#28
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
"Tony F" wrote in message ... That really, really sucks, Nick!! Why aren't you crossing those over actively, using an amp with an adjustable electronic xover? It will sound better and you'll have absolute control over the xover point. I WAS crossing them over actively with a Coustic XM-3 at 3500Hz at 12 dB per octive. How high was the gain set on the amp? I would assume that even if your gain was moderately set, those tweeters would never actually see the likes of 60w per channel...and even if they did, it would only be for very short periods of time. Weird. My PG amps are rated at 75w per channel, and my Dyn tweets are crossed over actively, I believe at 4500Hz or something like that. But unlike yours, mine are rated (according to Dynaudio) at 20 - 150 watts continuous power. Sorry about your tweets. I know you loved them. What's even cooler, is that your wife was showing your system off. That's WAY cool!! Tony Thanks Tony. I appreciate your encouraging words. I am really considering taking Chad's advice and using my Alpine's X-over in three-way mode (tweeter, midrange, woofer) and crossing them over with a steeper slope (24 dB). Then I will just get of the Coustic XM-3. I think that might be the safest option. Nick -- 2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition Clarion DRZ9255 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and Xenon X1200.1 Amplifiers, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, Image Dynamics IDMAX10 D4 v.3 Sub 2001 Chevy S10 ZR2 Pioneer DEH-P9600MP Head Unit, Phoenix Gold Ti500.4 Amp, Focal 165HC Speakers & Image Dynamics ID8 D4 v.3 Sub 2006 Mustang GT Coupe Alpine IVA-D310 DVD Head Unit, Alpine MRA-550 Digital 5.1 Amp, Boston Acoustics Z-Series Speakers, Alpine SBS-05DC Center Channel Speaker, Amplified MTX Thunderform Sub |
#29
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
"Jamie Pruden" wrote in message news:2006071808193550073-null@bitbucketcom... Hi Nick, Sorry to hear about your tweets... I just reread the owners manual on my new XR525s and they specifically say to use the xover *even when biamping.* Yes, I downloaded a copy of the owners manual and saw that as well. And yes, I was concerned about it. I was wondering if there was some impedance issue that by not using the X-over, the impedance might be really low and draw more current. I'm not really an expert on these things but that did get my attention as well. But then again, a tweeter is a tweeter, and I would think there should be some way to adequately protect it without the JL passive X-over. I think a higher and sharper sloped X-over will likely solve this problem (or a much less powerful amp). However, I am bidding on a number of JL VR speaker packages that include the X-over and I may try using it if I get one that includes the X-over. Ultimately, that may be the safest (and wisest) way of protecting those tweeters. Thanks for the advice. MOSFET |
#30
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
Crap, I just thought of a flaw in this plan in using my Alpine in three-way
mode. I use a dash mounted EQ, the Clarion EQ-750, and I REALLY like that thing. I use it ALL the time (for nearly every song). If I split the signal at the Alpine, I will only be able to run either the midrange output or the tweeter output through the EQ, I can't run both (right now, only the sub output from the Alpine bypasses the EQ which is OK as the sub level control is so easily accessed by the Alpine). So I'm afraid I would have to give up my EQ if I were to go with this plan (or jsut be able to control the midrange with it, which is kind of lame). I think it's back to the drawing board and the answer msot likely lies in a higher X-over frequency and a less powerful amp. I am now thinking of getting rid of the Jensen altogether and using two of the channels of my Prestige (40 watts X 4) to drive my tweets and the other two channels to drive my rear-fill. That would also free up so badly needed space under my seats as I currently have squeezed under the two front seats the following items: RF Punch 225.2, Jensen XP42, Prestige PA-440, two 1/2 farad caps, one 1 farad cap, and the Coustic XM-3. Needless to say, some of this spills over into the rear cabin floor (where people put their feet). It would be nice to get rid of one of those amps. This is currently my number one plan at the moment. MOSFET |
#31
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
After all the **** you said about your great high end amp, then you pop your
tweeters. Dumb **** the jokes on you. In article , "MOSFET" wrote: "Captain Howdy" wrote in message .. . Listen up swapshop dick, I mean nick. Life sucks when it's got you by the balls. I don't laugh at other's problems, I laugh at you mr.SQ. I told you to get a JBL compression horn the last time around. Some people have to do things and learn things the hard way, and yeah it's funny as ****. Oh yeah, it's a hoot. You're an idiot. Stop replying to my posts. Nick |
#32
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
I guess you need read alot of the replies from people, The amount of power
that you have is not an issue. The problem is your ghetto-fab gear. Misfit will you ever learn. ROFL I think it's back to the drawing board and the answer msot likely lies in a higher X-over frequency and a less powerful amp. I am now thinking of getting rid of the Jensen altogether and using two of the channels of my Prestige (40 watts X 4) to drive my tweets and the other two channels to drive my rear-fill. That would also free up so badly needed space under my seats as I currently have squeezed under the two front seats the following items: RF Punch 225.2, Jensen XP42, Prestige PA-440, two 1/2 farad caps, one 1 farad cap, and the Coustic XM-3. Needless to say, some of this spills over into the rear cabin floor (where people put their feet). It would be nice to get rid of one of those amps. This is currently my number one plan at the moment. MOSFET |
#33
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
Just remember that if a tweeters specs say it will take 60 watts of average
(aka RMS) power that does NOT mean a full 60 watts to the tweeters themselves. What it means is that (in a passive setup) if your system is outputting 60 watts then the tweeters voicecoil will withstand that power level when crossed over properly. The midrange/tweeter system may be putting out 60 watts as a whole but the tweeter will only get about 10% of this output. Active crossovers do not protect tweeters especially if the xover point and slope are not well thought out. If you somehow send the amp into clipping you are generating roughly twice the RMS power the amp is rated at. This will effectively kill any tweeter that does not have passive crossover protection as they have very delicate voicecoils. Several ways to protect tweeters when using an active xover: - use an appropriate xover frequency and slope, and match the tweeter level output properly - avoid clipping the amp output for any extended length of time, OR - put a thermal protection switch in series with the tweeter, i.e., a polyswitch - run a passive crossover between the amp and tweeters in addition to the active crossover located upstream I don't use any additional protection to my JL tweeters but I run them at conventioal listening levels for the most part. I currently use a Sony XEC-1000 crossover with the woofer low passed at 3500 hz and the tweeters high passed at 5000 hz. I have never liked the sound that results when using a symetrical crossover point in conjunction with a 12db slope. There is just too much of a hump in the response around the xover point. If using a lower symetrical setting I have always found a steeper slope, like a 24db Linkwitz Reilly alignment, works best. Either way will afford a much more protective "cushion" to the tweeters. - RG "MOSFET" wrote in message m... "Jamie Pruden" wrote in message news:2006071808193550073-null@bitbucketcom... Hi Nick, Sorry to hear about your tweets... I just reread the owners manual on my new XR525s and they specifically say to use the xover *even when biamping.* Yes, I downloaded a copy of the owners manual and saw that as well. And yes, I was concerned about it. I was wondering if there was some impedance issue that by not using the X-over, the impedance might be really low and draw more current. I'm not really an expert on these things but that did get my attention as well. But then again, a tweeter is a tweeter, and I would think there should be some way to adequately protect it without the JL passive X-over. I think a higher and sharper sloped X-over will likely solve this problem (or a much less powerful amp). However, I am bidding on a number of JL VR speaker packages that include the X-over and I may try using it if I get one that includes the X-over. Ultimately, that may be the safest (and wisest) way of protecting those tweeters. Thanks for the advice. MOSFET |
#34
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
I HAVE NEVER SAID MY GEAR WAS HIGH END OR GREAT OR ANYTHING YOU MORON!!!!
I'M PROUD OF MY SYSTEM BUT WHO HERE ISN'T, AND WHY IS THAT A CRIME? I NEVER SAID I WAS ANY KIND OF EXPERT EITHER (IN FACT MANY TIMES I POINTED OUT THAT I WAS NOT AN EXPERT WHEN IT CAME TO ELECTRICAL THEORY). WHAT THE **** HAVE YOU BEEN SMOKING? GO AND CHECK ALL MY PAST POSTS AND FIND WHERE I SAID MY GEAR WAS HIGH-END OR AWESOME OR THAT I WAS ANY KIND OF EXPERT. WHY DON'T YOU JUST SPEND YOUR TIME ONLY RESPONDING TO BOB'S POSTS IN THE FUTURE BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY YOU SEEM TO SHARE MANY OF HIS DELUSIONS. YOU LIVE IN HIS SAME FAIRY WORLD. IF YOU DON'T WANT TO HELP ME, THEN SHUT THE **** UP!!!!!! YOU ARE JUST PLAIN A MEAN, SADISTIC **** WHO TAKES PLEASURE IN OTHER PEOPLE'S PROBLEMS. I KNOW YOU DON'T CARE (PEOPLE LIKE YOU NEVER DO), BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU ARE. I WOULD APPRECIATE IT IF YOU WOULD NOT RESPOND TO MY POSTS. MOSFET "Captain Howdy" wrote in message ... After all the **** you said about your great high end amp, then you pop your tweeters. Dumb **** the jokes on you. In article , "MOSFET" wrote: "Captain Howdy" wrote in message . .. Listen up swapshop dick, I mean nick. Life sucks when it's got you by the balls. I don't laugh at other's problems, I laugh at you mr.SQ. I told you to get a JBL compression horn the last time around. Some people have to do things and learn things the hard way, and yeah it's funny as ****. Oh yeah, it's a hoot. You're an idiot. Stop replying to my posts. Nick |
#35
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
I guess you need read alot of the replies from people, The amount of power
that you have is not an issue. The problem is your ghetto-fab gear. Misfit will you ever learn. ROFL No one who has replied to this thread has said that, you moron. Again, you demonstrate how ****ed up your brain is. Do you hear voices? Are there black helicopters outside your window? Is the CIA tapping your phone? Could be, huh? Go have a long conversation with Bob. He is DEFINITELY on your level. Nick |
#36
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
Just remember that if a tweeters specs say it will take 60 watts of
average (aka RMS) power that does NOT mean a full 60 watts to the tweeters themselves. What it means is that (in a passive setup) if your system is outputting 60 watts then the tweeters voicecoil will withstand that power level when crossed over properly. The midrange/tweeter system may be putting out 60 watts as a whole but the tweeter will only get about 10% of this output. Yes, but in the 2000 Car Stereo Review buyer's guide the VR tweeters are sold separately and it says for the JL VR 075-CT tweeter: Power handling 50W; FR 4,000Hz-25,000Hz; sens 92dB; imp 4 ohms, price $130. So apparently, this tweeter SHOULD be able to handle 50 watts by itself if properly X-overed. Again, I think my X-over was not high enough and my amp may have spiked (as was suggested by someone else) and put WAY more than 50 watts into the tweeter. My new thinking is I want to eliminate the Jensen amp and just drive the tweeters with 40 watts from my 4 channel Prestige PA-440 amp (the other two channels will drive my rear-fill). Between less power and a higher X-over point (like 4500Hz), I SHOULD be OK. Thanks again for the feedback. MOSFET MOSFET |
#37
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
I cant' imagine any tweeter ever seeing 50 watts RMS at 4000 hz or more. In
a playing system that would mean the mids would be seeing about 500 watts. They always mean 50 watts BEFORE the crossover. Actual wattage to a tweeter is usually between 5 and 10 watts after the signal filters through the crossover. There just is not a lot of power/energy in high frequencies. Anyway, I think you are on the right track if only by raising the crossover point. But I would emphasize again NOT to trust the frequency calibrations on your Coustic xover. Those variable pots are usually bogus as far as tolerances, and the marked calibrations could be innaccurate, which could further compound any errors. Anyway, good luck. - RG "MOSFET" wrote in message ... Just remember that if a tweeters specs say it will take 60 watts of average (aka RMS) power that does NOT mean a full 60 watts to the tweeters themselves. What it means is that (in a passive setup) if your system is outputting 60 watts then the tweeters voicecoil will withstand that power level when crossed over properly. The midrange/tweeter system may be putting out 60 watts as a whole but the tweeter will only get about 10% of this output. Yes, but in the 2000 Car Stereo Review buyer's guide the VR tweeters are sold separately and it says for the JL VR 075-CT tweeter: Power handling 50W; FR 4,000Hz-25,000Hz; sens 92dB; imp 4 ohms, price $130. So apparently, this tweeter SHOULD be able to handle 50 watts by itself if properly X-overed. Again, I think my X-over was not high enough and my amp may have spiked (as was suggested by someone else) and put WAY more than 50 watts into the tweeter. My new thinking is I want to eliminate the Jensen amp and just drive the tweeters with 40 watts from my 4 channel Prestige PA-440 amp (the other two channels will drive my rear-fill). Between less power and a higher X-over point (like 4500Hz), I SHOULD be OK. Thanks again for the feedback. MOSFET MOSFET |
#38
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
MOSFET wrote: Crap, I just thought of a flaw in this plan in using my Alpine in three-way mode. I use a dash mounted EQ, the Clarion EQ-750, and I REALLY like that thing. I use it ALL the time (for nearly every song). If I split the signal at the Alpine, I will only be able to run either the midrange output or the tweeter output through the EQ, I can't run both (right now, only the sub output from the Alpine bypasses the EQ which is OK as the sub level control is so easily accessed by the Alpine). So I'm afraid I would have to give up my EQ if I were to go with this plan (or jsut be able to control the midrange with it, which is kind of lame). I think it's back to the drawing board and the answer msot likely lies in a higher X-over frequency and a less powerful amp. I am now thinking of getting rid of the Jensen altogether and using two of the channels of my Prestige (40 watts X 4) to drive my tweets and the other two channels to drive my rear-fill. That would also free up so badly needed space under my seats as I currently have squeezed under the two front seats the following items: RF Punch 225.2, Jensen XP42, Prestige PA-440, two 1/2 farad caps, one 1 farad cap, and the Coustic XM-3. Needless to say, some of this spills over into the rear cabin floor (where people put their feet). It would be nice to get rid of one of those amps. This is currently my number one plan at the moment. MOSFET Damn, i forgot about the EQ Sorry. I have a 9855 running 3 way. I have a select few presets for parametric EQ, I find that after careful tuning that I rarely have the urge to change it. I will adjust the sub level from time to time depending on the source or select CD. In fact I have like 2 summer presets and 2 winter presets. This also comes from my background of professional audio. I have not touched a single XO or EQ knob on my monitoring rig in over 2 years, I make my living on consistency I guess that's just how I'm used to doing it. Check out the new Seas Neo tweets, they are getting great SQ reviews and will play down to 2K with proper slopes, I'd bump it up to 3K with 12dB/Oct for safety sake. I run Morel MDT12's at between 2 and 2.5K with a 24dB/Oct slope with no problems. They are capable of receiving 70W/Ch from a Next VRz5.500 but never really come close to seeing that even at ear-bleeding levels. I honestly think that if you raise the tweets up in custom pods and spend some time with tuning and TA then you won't miss the EQ. Time Alligning the WHOLE front stage while placing the drivers where the work the best will do WAY more than the rear fills! Trust me Did you get my damn e-mail? Chad |
#39
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
There you go ass hat.
In article , John Durbin wrote: bah... get better tweeters or a better crossover. I have been running a pair of a/d/s/ cs tweeters (from the 346cs system) with my XES system, using a freaking PCX-280 for power just on the tweeters. Now, the slope is MUCH steeper (36 or 72 dB/octave, I forget which but something silly high like that) but I am using way more power than you were (the 280 is good for well over 100 WPC driving a 4 ohm load) and I have played with crossover points between 2.5kHz and up into the high 3kHz range with zero damage. I think I settled on something around 2.8kHz for normal use. In article , "MOSFET" wrote: I guess you need read alot of the replies from people, The amount of power that you have is not an issue. The problem is your ghetto-fab gear. Misfit will you ever learn. ROFL No one who has replied to this thread has said that, you moron. Again, you demonstrate how ****ed up your brain is. Do you hear voices? Are there black helicopters outside your window? Is the CIA tapping your phone? Could be, huh? Go have a long conversation with Bob. He is DEFINITELY on your level. Nick |
#40
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Just blew BOTH my new JL VR tweets. :(
Oh and **** you again.
In article 2006071808193550073-null@bitbucketcom, Jamie Pruden wrote: Hi Nick, Sorry to hear about your tweets... I just reread the owners manual on my new XR525s and they specifically say to use the xover *even when biamping.* When the Godfather (http://www.theautophile.com) used to post up here, he often mentioned putting a cap on Dynaudio tweeters when biamping. Not for xover purposes... mostly to avoid DC offset on the amplifier. Maybe this is what bit you... less expensive amps tend to have more DC offset and this can cause problems. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_offset http://tangentsoft.net/audio/input-cap.html I'd rather have too much power than not enough... smiles, Jamie In article , "MOSFET" wrote: I guess you need read alot of the replies from people, The amount of power that you have is not an issue. The problem is your ghetto-fab gear. Misfit will you ever learn. ROFL No one who has replied to this thread has said that, you moron. Again, you demonstrate how ****ed up your brain is. Do you hear voices? Are there black helicopters outside your window? Is the CIA tapping your phone? Could be, huh? Go have a long conversation with Bob. He is DEFINITELY on your level. Nick |
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