"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
No not usually you dont!!!!...
They didnt have hgh volt radios untill the last 5 years or so..
so if you cant get noise out without em then your saying
all the systems I have done before there was high volt radios
were all noisy...

I beg your pardon..
I dont think so!!

I have been installi for 30 years
and from an installers point of view I dont care if it is a high
volt radio or not... It is certainly NOT neccisary!!

Tha Ghee wrote:

agree but you still need the bigger voltage differences to keep the
electrical noises like alt down.


high voltage systems have been around since 91 when the 7909 came out. I'm
glad for you but there must be a problem somewhere if everyone now has a
deck with high preamp outputs now.

high voltage systems have been around since 91 when the 7909 came out. I'm
glad for you but there must be a problem somewhere if everyone now has a
deck with high preamp outputs now.

Ghee, that has too be the most absurd example I have ever read. It is all
marketing hype. Caps are extremely popular now, does that mean that it is
better than without? No. You really need to work on your logic.

Les

Tha Ghee wrote:

high voltage systems have been around since 91 when the 7909 came out.

Woo Hoo!
1991 may have been a long time ago to a newbie like you but by 1991 I
had almost 20 years of professional car installation already...

It was over 10 years before when *high end* car amps really started to
come out and I didnt really didnt have any problems all those years...

In fact, even if the 7909 was higher volt output than the norm, it still
wasnt the norm!! It was many many years later that the marketing hype
started making the high volt radios sell ...

I'm
glad for you but there must be a problem somewhere if everyone now has a
deck with high preamp outputs now.

There is no problem, its all marketing hype...
IF YOU BELIEVE IT then thats fine with me.... ha ha ha

"Soundfreak03" wrote in message
...
high voltage systems have been around since 91 when the 7909 came out.
I'm
glad for you but there must be a problem somewhere if everyone now has a
deck with high preamp outputs now.

Ghee, that has too be the most absurd example I have ever read. It is all
marketing hype. Caps are extremely popular now, does that mean that it is
better than without? No. You really need to work on your logic.

Les

what's wrong with my logic, just showing that most if not all decks have
high power does this mean all the HU manuf. are wasting money just because
you, ER, and MZ don't think they're useful.

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
Tha Ghee wrote:

high voltage systems have been around since 91 when the 7909 came out.

Woo Hoo!
1991 may have been a long time ago to a newbie like you but by 1991 I
had almost 20 years of professional car installation already...

It was over 10 years before when *high end* car amps really started to
come out and I didnt really didnt have any problems all those years...

In fact, even if the 7909 was higher volt output than the norm, it still
wasnt the norm!! It was many many years later that the marketing hype
started making the high volt radios sell ...

I'm
glad for you but there must be a problem somewhere if everyone now has a
deck with high preamp outputs now.

There is no problem, its all marketing hype...
IF YOU BELIEVE IT then thats fine with me.... ha ha ha

seeing who I was only born in 78 I think so...why is it marketing hype
they've just made better products.

No, it means thier marketing bull**** is working on YOU!

You seem to believe that a high volt output headunit is better
and you might pay extra for one... Thats not wasting money
thats makin money!

Tha Ghee wrote:

what's wrong with my logic, just showing that most if not all decks have
high power does this mean all the HU manuf. are wasting money just because
you, ER, and MZ don't think they're useful.

Tha Ghee wrote:

seeing who I was only born in 78 I think so...why is it marketing hype
they've just made better products.

Better????
The products are not better if they incorporate a feature that is
not needed!!!

Of course it may be better for the manufacturers cause they
have convinced you its better and because of that they can
get more money from you....

more marketing + gullable suckers = more profit

Eddie Runner

what's wrong with my logic

Your logic is that because manufactures put a feature in there that it must
mean that it is better. That is assinine. Manufactures say that you need a cap
but do you? No. Just because it is done does not mean it is the best or
required.

just showing that most if not all decks have
high power does this mean all the HU manuf. are wasting money just because
you, ER, and MZ don't think they're useful.

There not wasting money. I never said that High volt HU's are not useful but it
is not a requirement or even necessarily better to have a HV output!! But they
make money because people think they HAVE TO have that HV out and pay MORE
money for something that did not cost more than others. IF it were really that
great then why don't pro sound and home audio manufactures do it too?? It is
just marketing that makes you think you have to have it, nothing more, nothing
less.

Les

****... we were installing Zapco gear with 6V RMS preamp-level signal
between processor and amp input back in 1980. The first-gen Nakamichi HU
had a 1.1V RMS output in 1983.

None of this stuff is new, it just takes 12V forever to adopt good
technology from the home and pro audio industries.

JD

Eddie Runner wrote:

Tha Ghee wrote:



high voltage systems have been around since 91 when the 7909 came out.



Woo Hoo!
1991 may have been a long time ago to a newbie like you but by 1991 I
had almost 20 years of professional car installation already...

It was over 10 years before when *high end* car amps really started to
come out and I didnt really didnt have any problems all those years...

In fact, even if the 7909 was higher volt output than the norm, it still
wasnt the norm!! It was many many years later that the marketing hype
started making the high volt radios sell ...



I'm
glad for you but there must be a problem somewhere if everyone now has a
deck with high preamp outputs now.



There is no problem, its all marketing hype...
IF YOU BELIEVE IT then thats fine with me.... ha ha ha

before that John with the boosters the input voltage was even higher
than that!
ha ha ha

And the First Nak TD1200s (actually the MkIIs) are still sonsidered by
many to be some of the finest sounding headunits ever made! At about
1 volt output.....

Tell that to the kids to day, they wont believe ya. (monty python)

ha ha ha

John Durbin wrote:

****... we were installing Zapco gear with 6V RMS preamp-level signal
between processor and amp input back in 1980. The first-gen Nakamichi
HU had a 1.1V RMS output in 1983.

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
No, it means thier marketing bull**** is working on YOU!

You seem to believe that a high volt output headunit is better
and you might pay extra for one... Thats not wasting money
thats makin money!

no I don't I just think you and the rest are blasting something that you
don't show why it's bad. people also said that 300HP was to much but now a
lot of cars have this.

"Tha Ghee" wrote in message
...
"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
No, it means thier marketing bull**** is working on YOU!

You seem to believe that a high volt output headunit is better
and you might pay extra for one... Thats not wasting money
thats makin money!

no I don't I just think you and the rest are blasting something that you
don't show why it's bad. people also said that 300HP was to much but now
a
lot of cars have this.

I don't think anyone said it was bad.

"Soundfreak03" wrote in message
...
what's wrong with my logic

Your logic is that because manufactures put a feature in there that it
must
mean that it is better. That is assinine. Manufactures say that you need a
cap
but do you? No. Just because it is done does not mean it is the best or
required.

just showing that most if not all decks have
high power does this mean all the HU manuf. are wasting money just
because
you, ER, and MZ don't think they're useful.

There not wasting money. I never said that High volt HU's are not useful
but it
is not a requirement or even necessarily better to have a HV output!! But
they
make money because people think they HAVE TO have that HV out and pay MORE
money for something that did not cost more than others. IF it were really
that
great then why don't pro sound and home audio manufactures do it too?? It
is
just marketing that makes you think you have to have it, nothing more,
nothing
less.

Les

no, I never said that because I can do it with old Pioneer HU and they only
had 0.5 vrms. I just saying it not bad just something you don't need. you
and others paint out certain things to be bad just because you don't
like/use. if someone likes it then it's good for them.

if "hi-power" HU are bad why is it impossible to find a mid-level and above
HU with out a hi-level preamp output??

no, I never said that because I can do it with old Pioneer HU and they
only
had 0.5 vrms. I just saying it not bad just something you don't need.
you
and others paint out certain things to be bad just because you don't
like/use. if someone likes it then it's good for them.

No one said they were bad. Why are you making things up?

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
Tha Ghee wrote:

seeing who I was only born in 78 I think so...why is it marketing hype
they've just made better products.

Better????
The products are not better if they incorporate a feature that is
not needed!!!

Of course it may be better for the manufacturers cause they
have convinced you its better and because of that they can
get more money from you....

more marketing + gullable suckers = more profit

Eddie Runner

not necessarily, if you look at the list prices there isn't a large price
difference between "hi-volt" and regular output. so I don't think it's
marketing or more profit I think it's something that needed to be added.

Tha Ghee wrote:

no I don't I just think you and the rest are blasting something that you
don't show why it's bad.

It really isnt BAD, its just not as neccissary as you
said it was....

The home market adopted 1volt with the intent of doing all the
apmplifying at the amplifier for less distortion... It seems turning
it up to 5 volts or more could be amplification (and THD) that
is not needed, specially when you just turn it back down to
near a 1 volt level with most amplifier gain controls (percent
of THD would still be the same percentage even if you turn it
down at the amp (although not enough for us to really be
concerned with but it could be arguable)).....

I dont mind the high volt head units, from an installers point of
view I can be lazy and just turn the gain down to get rid of some
ground loop noises instread of doing it the right way..... Actually
I am more satisfied doing it the right way... ;-)

people also said that 300HP was to much but now a
lot of cars have this.

Good point! 300HP is a MARKETING PLOY to get folks
to buy the car!!! Just like high volt radios....

Speed limit here doesnt justify 300HP and since I have grown
up I dont really find the need to burn rubber anymore....

high volt radio, = you prolly wont need it or use it, youll just turn it down
to 1volt anyway.

300HP car, = prolly wont need it or use it, but it is there for you just in
case....




Eddie

Like I said, as an installer I install high volt headunits all the time...
I just dont notice it... There isnt anything special so I dont even
worry about it... I intall what the customer wants me to install, I
dont prefer a high volt over a low volt, generally there is no advantage.

Eddie

Tha Ghee wrote:

not necessarily, if you look at the list prices there isn't a large price
difference between "hi-volt" and regular output. so I don't think it's
marketing or more profit I think it's something that needed to be added.

no, I never said that because I can do it with old Pioneer HU and they only
had 0.5 vrms. I just saying it not bad just something you don't need. you
and others paint out certain things to be bad just because you don't
like/use. if someone likes it then it's good for them.

I do use them! I never said they were bad, but that you do not have to have
them for a clean system. My Pioneer has High-volt outs.

if "hi-power" HU are bad why is it impossible to find a mid-level and above
HU with out a hi-level preamp output??


You keep using that same flawed logic. Just because it is popular does not mean
that it is better. If Pioneer didn't have that feature they would sell fewer
units merely because of marketing.

Les

no, I never said that because I can do it with old Pioneer HU and they
only
had 0.5 vrms. I just saying it not bad just something you don't need.
you
and others paint out certain things to be bad just because you don't
like/use. if someone likes it then it's good for them.

I do use them! I never said they were bad, but that you do not have to
have
them for a clean system. My Pioneer has High-volt outs.

If you do use them, then you're a hypocrite. If you don't use them, then
you're just jealous.

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
Like I said, as an installer I install high volt headunits all the time...
I just dont notice it... There isnt anything special so I dont even
worry about it... I intall what the customer wants me to install, I
dont prefer a high volt over a low volt, generally there is no advantage.

Eddie

that's silly if there was "no advantage" like you say why would HU makers
even waste there time putting it in most of their HUs??

"Mark Zarella" wrote in message
...
no, I never said that because I can do it with old Pioneer HU and they
only
had 0.5 vrms. I just saying it not bad just something you don't need.
you
and others paint out certain things to be bad just because you don't
like/use. if someone likes it then it's good for them.

No one said they were bad. Why are you making things up?

no you and MZ are making Hi-volt HU as not necessary, sorry wrong verbiage.

"Soundfreak03" wrote in message
...

You keep using that same flawed logic. Just because it is popular does not
mean
that it is better. If Pioneer didn't have that feature they would sell
fewer
units merely because of marketing.

Les

how it is flawed logic?? No they would sell the same they didn't have a
problem selling them in the 90s when they didn't have Hi-volt units.

"Tha Ghee" wrote in message that's silly if there
was "no advantage" like you say why would HU makers
even waste there time putting it in most of their HUs??


For the same reason that home sub amps have 2 RCA inputs. People expect them
to be there!!!! Just the same, the standard has been set with Hi-Volt Head
units. If one manufacture did not use them they would "suck", even if that
was not the case! They are not bad, but the reason they are so popular is
marketing. It is the same thing with esoteric speaker wire and RCAs. There
are many manufactures that make them but does that mean they are better?

Les

"Tha Ghee" wrote in message
You keep using that same flawed logic. Just because it is popular does
not
mean
that it is better. If Pioneer didn't have that feature they would sell
fewer
units merely because of marketing.

Les

how it is flawed logic?? No they would sell the same they didn't have a
problem selling them in the 90s when they didn't have Hi-volt units.


But now the standard is set with High volt outs. If one did not do it they
would fall by the wayside. They all do it because of competition, you have
to offer the appeals of the other guy's product with some stuff of your own.
Your logic is because the manufactures do it that makes it better. That is
absolutely asinine. They do what they have to do to sell products, and if
that is High volt then that is what they put in it. Who knows what the next
craze will be. Maybe a remote will become absolutely necessary, will that
mean that units without the remote are not as good and cannot function just
as well? Again, no, that is why I say your logic is flawed.

Les

But back then no one else (few anyway) had high volt either!

Now, many companies advertise high volts so everyone else
has to also...

Tha Ghee wrote:

how it is flawed logic?? No they would sell the same they didn't have a
problem selling them in the 90s when they didn't have Hi-volt units.

Tha Ghee wrote:

that's silly if there was "no advantage" like you say why would HU makers
even waste there time putting it in most of their HUs??

I have said this several times before, and so have other folks, I guess
you werent paying attention... (why do I think you will this time?)

because it is a MARKETING ploy!
They call it a FEATURE!!!

They do it cause everyone else does it!!!!!
because kids read the propaganda in the magazine adds and
believe the bull****! (like you do)

Thats why they do it...
there is an advantage, because they can CON you into
believing it and telling your freinds....

But from an installers point of view (MINE) there is rarely
any advantage from my eyes (or ears)...

Eddie Runner