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  #1   Report Post  
Steve Grauman
 
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Default "Best" SQ subs?

I need a subwoofer to compliment/complete my sound system. I'm not into DB drag
competition or anything of the sort, I'm *only* interested in getting the best
SQ possible for my money. I'm extremely anal about sound quality, and I want
something that can go loud an LOW, down to 20Hz or below so I know the sub can
handle anything thrown at it in terms of regular music. But it's got to sound
great. I'd prefer a 12 inch or smaller sub for ease of installation, but if
going up to a 15+ inch driver is neccesary, so be it. I'm looking for
reccomendations, because the only thing that looks to meet my criteria, at
least on paper, is Pioneer's TS-W12PRS series subwoofer (which is an SQ sub, as
opposed to Pioneer's new SPL line of subs), it's good down to 15Hz! I've heard
that Phoenix Gold's Titanium Elite 12 inch sub is good, but I can't find any
specs for it. Please help me here!
  #2   Report Post  
Mark Zarella
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Best" SQ subs?

It's all about the enclosure and the size of the amplifier driving it.

"Steve Grauman" wrote in message
...
I need a subwoofer to compliment/complete my sound system. I'm not into DB

drag
competition or anything of the sort, I'm *only* interested in getting the

best
SQ possible for my money. I'm extremely anal about sound quality, and I

want
something that can go loud an LOW, down to 20Hz or below so I know the sub

can
handle anything thrown at it in terms of regular music. But it's got to

sound
great. I'd prefer a 12 inch or smaller sub for ease of installation, but

if
going up to a 15+ inch driver is neccesary, so be it. I'm looking for
reccomendations, because the only thing that looks to meet my criteria, at
least on paper, is Pioneer's TS-W12PRS series subwoofer (which is an SQ

sub, as
opposed to Pioneer's new SPL line of subs), it's good down to 15Hz! I've

heard
that Phoenix Gold's Titanium Elite 12 inch sub is good, but I can't find

any
specs for it. Please help me here!



  #3   Report Post  
sanitarium
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Best" SQ subs?

IMHO those pioneers are very good for the $$$, good TS params for low
resonance.
Not sure what your budget is, but check the adire shiva or DPL12,
although I think both are considerably more $$$ than the pioneer.
Dayton titanic series are also great IMHO.

Garrett


Steve Grauman wrote:

I need a subwoofer to compliment/complete my sound system. I'm not into DB drag
competition or anything of the sort, I'm *only* interested in getting the best
SQ possible for my money. I'm extremely anal about sound quality, and I want
something that can go loud an LOW, down to 20Hz or below so I know the sub can
handle anything thrown at it in terms of regular music. But it's got to sound
great. I'd prefer a 12 inch or smaller sub for ease of installation, but if
going up to a 15+ inch driver is neccesary, so be it. I'm looking for
reccomendations, because the only thing that looks to meet my criteria, at
least on paper, is Pioneer's TS-W12PRS series subwoofer (which is an SQ sub, as
opposed to Pioneer's new SPL line of subs), it's good down to 15Hz! I've heard
that Phoenix Gold's Titanium Elite 12 inch sub is good, but I can't find any
specs for it. Please help me here!



  #4   Report Post  
Pug Fugley
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Best" SQ subs?

I haven't found anything yet that can touch the Image Dynamics IDQ12.


"Steve Grauman" wrote in message
...
I need a subwoofer to compliment/complete my sound system. I'm not into DB

drag
competition or anything of the sort, I'm *only* interested in getting the

best
SQ possible for my money. I'm extremely anal about sound quality, and I

want
something that can go loud an LOW, down to 20Hz or below so I know the sub

can
handle anything thrown at it in terms of regular music. But it's got to

sound
great. I'd prefer a 12 inch or smaller sub for ease of installation, but

if
going up to a 15+ inch driver is neccesary, so be it. I'm looking for
reccomendations, because the only thing that looks to meet my criteria, at
least on paper, is Pioneer's TS-W12PRS series subwoofer (which is an SQ

sub, as
opposed to Pioneer's new SPL line of subs), it's good down to 15Hz! I've

heard
that Phoenix Gold's Titanium Elite 12 inch sub is good, but I can't find

any
specs for it. Please help me here!



  #5   Report Post  
Steve Grauman
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Best" SQ subs?

Not sure what your budget is, but check the adire shiva or DPL12,
although I think both are considerably more $$$ than the pioneer.
Dayton titanic series are also great IMHO.

Aren't those all SPL subs? And where do Elemental and Treo fall in?


  #6   Report Post  
Tony Fernandes
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Best" SQ subs?

I have to agree with Mark. I'd choose a good sub, but don't forget that the
install is paramount. I just did two Soundstream EXACT 10s in an aperiodic
enclosure and the 20Hz response is outstanding. The same woofers in a
different box would yield different results. I'm sure many people don't
consider the EXACT subs the "best", but in my particular install I'd put
them up against just about anything for SQ output.

Tony




--



What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or,
that he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we
wouldn't have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact

"Pug Fugley" wrote in message
hlink.net...
I haven't found anything yet that can touch the Image Dynamics IDQ12.


"Steve Grauman" wrote in message
...
I need a subwoofer to compliment/complete my sound system. I'm not into

DB
drag
competition or anything of the sort, I'm *only* interested in getting

the
best
SQ possible for my money. I'm extremely anal about sound quality, and I

want
something that can go loud an LOW, down to 20Hz or below so I know the

sub
can
handle anything thrown at it in terms of regular music. But it's got to

sound
great. I'd prefer a 12 inch or smaller sub for ease of installation, but

if
going up to a 15+ inch driver is neccesary, so be it. I'm looking for
reccomendations, because the only thing that looks to meet my criteria,

at
least on paper, is Pioneer's TS-W12PRS series subwoofer (which is an SQ

sub, as
opposed to Pioneer's new SPL line of subs), it's good down to 15Hz! I've

heard
that Phoenix Gold's Titanium Elite 12 inch sub is good, but I can't find

any
specs for it. Please help me here!





  #7   Report Post  
Mark Zarella
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Best" SQ subs?

I have to agree with Mark. I'd choose a good sub, but don't forget that
the
install is paramount. I just did two Soundstream EXACT 10s in an

aperiodic
enclosure and the 20Hz response is outstanding.


Good job by the way. Looks good.

The same woofers in a
different box would yield different results. I'm sure many people don't
consider the EXACT subs the "best", but in my particular install I'd put
them up against just about anything for SQ output.


In my experience, you can't do it without tradeoffs, and almost any sub will
do. Some on here claim that the difference between woofers is negligible,
as long as they can handle enough power and are put in the right enclosure
to achieve the desired tuning and efficiency. I tend to agree with that
assertion. It's very easy to compensate for most TS params by modifications
of an enclosure. I think Steve is putting a little too much weight into the
numbers (as he commonly does ) and the notion that some subs are
strictly for "SQ purposes" and others for SPL.


  #8   Report Post  
sanitarium
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Best" SQ subs?

Yes they do have pretty large Xmax stroke (=more dbs), but their ts
params and light cone materials make for some great SQ subs as well.
Ive never heard an ED or Treo first hand, so I really cant comment, but
have a low/loud reputation as well.

Garrett

Steve Grauman wrote:

Not sure what your budget is, but check the adire shiva or DPL12,
although I think both are considerably more $$$ than the pioneer.
Dayton titanic series are also great IMHO.

Aren't those all SPL subs? And where do Elemental and Treo fall in?



  #9   Report Post  
keith
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Best" SQ subs?

One vote for a Velodyne - wonder if Reed has any more?
Keith
Oh - I use a HSU Research ASW 1202. Responds well down to 7 Hz, but the
power handling could be better. I'm using an ESX 475^1 and a 1.2 ft^3
sealed enclosure w/ fiberfill. I'm pretty happy with it.

Steve Grauman wrote:

I need a subwoofer to compliment/complete my sound system. I'm not into DB drag
competition or anything of the sort, I'm *only* interested in getting the best
SQ possible for my money. I'm extremely anal about sound quality, and I want
something that can go loud an LOW, down to 20Hz or below so I know the sub can
handle anything thrown at it in terms of regular music. But it's got to sound
great. I'd prefer a 12 inch or smaller sub for ease of installation, but if
going up to a 15+ inch driver is neccesary, so be it. I'm looking for
reccomendations, because the only thing that looks to meet my criteria, at
least on paper, is Pioneer's TS-W12PRS series subwoofer (which is an SQ sub, as
opposed to Pioneer's new SPL line of subs), it's good down to 15Hz! I've heard
that Phoenix Gold's Titanium Elite 12 inch sub is good, but I can't find any
specs for it. Please help me here!



  #10   Report Post  
Jeff Albright
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Best" SQ subs?

keith wrote in news:0auJb.5988$TB.2482
@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com:

Velodyne


My Velodyne 10/12 VA series is at least 4 yrs old..and continues to
provide me with low resonant pleasure. But I thought that was for Home
applications.

I have a 96 Explorer 4X4 XLT with Cadence ZX-5's 5 inch components up
front. Polk GXR57's for rear fill. I have an Alpine CDA-7892 HU,
complimented by an Alpine CHA-S634 CD-Changer. I'm using a Planet Audio
TT2150,300 watts when bridged; to power a Pioneer TS-W35C 12 inch sub.
With 500 watt peak power handling; 91dB 20Hz-4,000Hz.

I'm using a GM-X374 to power the Cadences. Let me just say, it works for
me. I'm thoroughly pleased with the sound quality. I practically look for
excuses to be in my truck now. The Pioneer for the money..hits loud and
hard. The nice thing about having an SUV is that you get all of that low
resonance in the cab with you. Its just Thick with bass. Like a heavy
fog. You get a low audible Thump from the outside. So my fellow Negros
are not sure what I have inside. Keeps em from getting too curious. And
that's with the Planet Audio gains set at less than half, with the Alpine
bass @0, and the sub setting at 0- as well.

I'm 46..and I don't feel as though I need to compete with anyone. I can
barely listen to my system above a volume level of 12-13. I would like to
be able to hear it when I'm 50. You young kids mind your hearing..you'll
miss it once its gone. There is no distortion, or muddying of the bass. I
get clear crisp sound, with excellent mid-bass. I'm very happy. I listen
to mostly Jazz and Gospel. So the Bass element is quite heavy, and
satisfying. If your on a budget, and not too readily ruled by your
testosterone, get the Pioneer.
jeff


  #11   Report Post  
fhlh002
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Best" SQ subs?

those pioneers won't go low unless the enclosure and the installation is
spot on...... as a matter of fact, no system sounds worth a damn unless it's
installed correctly.

but, besides the pioneer's I'd also look at the Image Dynamics IDQ v2 for a
sub with great SQ and low frequency extension.... of course... I'm only
offering MY opinion on this brand.... you might like the sound and
performance of another sub, but installation is 99% of the sound you want,
IMHO.

FHLH..... then again... if you believe Pencil Necked Geeks like Tom
Nutstain.... installation (location) of a sub shouldn't matter....


"Steve Grauman" wrote in message
...
I need a subwoofer to compliment/complete my sound system. I'm not into DB

drag
competition or anything of the sort, I'm *only* interested in getting the

best
SQ possible for my money. I'm extremely anal about sound quality, and I

want
something that can go loud an LOW, down to 20Hz or below so I know the sub

can
handle anything thrown at it in terms of regular music. But it's got to

sound
great. I'd prefer a 12 inch or smaller sub for ease of installation, but

if
going up to a 15+ inch driver is neccesary, so be it. I'm looking for
reccomendations, because the only thing that looks to meet my criteria, at
least on paper, is Pioneer's TS-W12PRS series subwoofer (which is an SQ

sub, as
opposed to Pioneer's new SPL line of subs), it's good down to 15Hz! I've

heard
that Phoenix Gold's Titanium Elite 12 inch sub is good, but I can't find

any
specs for it. Please help me here!



  #12   Report Post  
rpgonzalez
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Best" SQ subs?

Mark Zarella wrote:
*Some on here claim that the difference between woofers i
negligible,
as long as they can handle enough power and are put in the righ
enclosure
to achieve the desired tuning and efficiency. I tend to agree wit
that
assertion. It's very easy to compensate for most TS params b
modifications
of an enclosure. I think Steve is putting a little too much weigh
into the
numbers (as he commonly does ) and the notion that some sub
are
strictly for "SQ purposes" and others for SPL. *


dissssssagreeeeeee..... "compensating" and changing a box for TS i
different from how a sub is manufactured to sound. To say that th
differences between woofers is negligible is ludicrous. so I can mak
my kicker sound as good as a w7? This would have to be true using th
word "negligible." I have heard this argument before... and its usuall
from people who make boxes for a living. I tested this theory out wit
various combos.

The first time I tested this was when an installer tried to convice m
that a W0 in his custom box will "blow away" a W3 in a pre-fab. HA! Th
result...well, I ended up with my W3 in the pre-fab. Other examples
have include making boxes and switching woofers in a HT application
The Shiva hit lower than any sub in any box. Back to the W3...
eventually made and tried other boxes in an effort to achieve desirabl
SQ. But it never happened.. the W3 loves to hit hard... its engineere
that way! Even the W7 sounds flabby compared to my Velodyn
servo-driven sub... and my new.....

IDQ12 !!!! This sub is running less power now.. and I put it in th
cheapest POS pre-fab box I could find just for testing purposes. Ca
you say cardboard? Whatever the case... the IDQ is an SQ dream. Just a
promised by all the wonderful CAF members.

In conclusion: the answer is... IDQ12.




oh.. and ps. I think humans cannot sense anything below 20hz. I may b
wrong
-
rpgonzale
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  #13   Report Post  
MZ
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Best" SQ subs?

*Some on here claim that the difference between woofers is
negligible,
as long as they can handle enough power and are put in the right
enclosure
to achieve the desired tuning and efficiency. I tend to agree with
that
assertion. It's very easy to compensate for most TS params by
modifications
of an enclosure. I think Steve is putting a little too much weight
into the
numbers (as he commonly does ) and the notion that some subs
are
strictly for "SQ purposes" and others for SPL. *


dissssssagreeeeeee..... "compensating" and changing a box for TS is
different from how a sub is manufactured to sound. To say that the
differences between woofers is negligible is ludicrous. so I can make
my kicker sound as good as a w7?


It depends. What inherent advantage do you feel a w7 has? Keep in mind my
other comments regarding power handling and linear xmax.

This would have to be true using the
word "negligible." I have heard this argument before... and its usually
from people who make boxes for a living. I tested this theory out with
various combos.

The first time I tested this was when an installer tried to convice me
that a W0 in his custom box will "blow away" a W3 in a pre-fab. HA! The
result...well, I ended up with my W3 in the pre-fab. Other examples I
have include making boxes and switching woofers in a HT application.
The Shiva hit lower than any sub in any box.


You can easily get any sub to "hit lower" than a Shiva if you had the right
box and a sub with the right excursion capabilities.


oh.. and ps. I think humans cannot sense anything below 20hz. I may be
wrong!


"Sense" or hear?


  #14   Report Post  
sancho
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Best" SQ subs?

rpgonzalez wrote:

dissssssagreeeeeee..... "compensating" and changing a box for TS is
different from how a sub is manufactured to sound. To say that the
differences between woofers is negligible is ludicrous. so I can make
my kicker sound as good as a w7?


please enlighten us... might you quantify the ways in which a kicker is
not as 'good' as a w7?


This would have to be true using the
word "negligible." I have heard this argument before... and its usually
from people who make boxes for a living. I tested this theory out with
various combos.

The first time I tested this was when an installer tried to convice me
that a W0 in his custom box will "blow away" a W3 in a pre-fab. HA! The
result...well, I ended up with my W3 in the pre-fab. Other examples I
have include making boxes and switching woofers in a HT application.
The Shiva hit lower than any sub in any box. Back to the W3... I
eventually made and tried other boxes in an effort to achieve desirable
SQ. But it never happened.. the W3 loves to hit hard... its engineered
that way! Even the W7 sounds flabby compared to my Velodyne
servo-driven sub... and my new.....

IDQ12 !!!! This sub is running less power now.. and I put it in the
cheapest POS pre-fab box I could find just for testing purposes. Can
you say cardboard? Whatever the case... the IDQ is an SQ dream. Just as
promised by all the wonderful CAF members.



are you familiar with the phrase 'anecdotal evidence'?

In conclusion: the answer is... IDQ12.


isn't he precious?

oh.. and ps. I think humans cannot sense anything below 20hz. I may be
wrong!
--
rpgonzalez
------------------------------------------------------------------------
CarASSioForum.com - Usenet Gateway w/over one million posts online!
View this thread: http://www.carASSioforum.com/showthr...hreadid=171195


you may indeed
--
sancho
this post was intended for usenet, if you are reading this post on a
webforum it is because someone has STOLEN it to use as content to draw
traffic to his site... please acquire a proper newsreader if you want to
access rec.audio.car and rethink your patronage of said site...
  #15   Report Post  
rpgonzalez
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Best" SQ subs?

It depends. What inherent advantage do you feel a w7 has? Keep in min
my
other comments regarding power handling and linear xmax.


The w7 is supposed to have much better SQ than other JL's. Although
personally disagree.. I think the whole line of JL audio subs is geare
towards more throw and less accuracy. I have witnesses W7's i
different enclosures, although the JL character remains the same. And
formed this opinion by listening, not formed the opinion then listened
I dont know how these guys engineer the differences.. but I have bee
able to identify a JL just by getting in a strangers car.


You can easily get any sub to "hit lower" than a Shiva if you had th
right
box and a sub with the right excursion capabilities.


wouldnt excursion capabilitiy be a characteristic of the woofer and no
the box?


"Sense" or hear?



sorry, I f*cked that whole part up. I really wanted to go into detai
about the "down to 15 Hz" statement, but I was at work and just thre
something in... something that Im sorry to say insulted many people'
intelligence (probably). Really, I wanted to touch upon the fact tha
the sub Steve was referring to that goes down to 15Hz is probably no
noticeable in real life. Yes, the bottom line is 15 Hz, but there i
also a drop off rate preceeding that 15 Hz. Maybe the sub start
dropping off @ 50Hz. Lets say both a 15Hz sub and a 20Hz sub star
dropping at 50Hz. By the time you get to the range between 15Hz an
20Hz, the differences should be... negligible. i can eloborate mor
maybe, but I have to play ratchet and clank now..
-
rpgonzale
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
CarAudioForum.com - Usenet Gateway w/over one million posts online
View this thread: http://www.caraudioforum.com/showthr...threadid=17119



  #16   Report Post  
MZ
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Best" SQ subs?

It depends. What inherent advantage do you feel a w7 has? Keep in mind
my
other comments regarding power handling and linear xmax.


The w7 is supposed to have much better SQ than other JL's.


Says the marketing department.

Although I
personally disagree.. I think the whole line of JL audio subs is geared
towards more throw and less accuracy.


I don't know about that. I've got a 12w3 that's very "accurate". So what
about a sub makes it inaccurate?

You can easily get any sub to "hit lower" than a Shiva if you had the
right
box and a sub with the right excursion capabilities.


wouldnt excursion capabilitiy be a characteristic of the woofer and not
the box?


I never said otherwise. I've said repeatedly in this NG that the chief
considerations when buying a sub are power handling and impedance.
Excursion can be considered an aspect of power handling.


  #17   Report Post  
sancho
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Best" SQ subs?


holy ****balls

QUIT THAT

if you want to post here, get a newsreader... or use a service that
allows a PROPER quote...

do you want to be 'that asshole'?

do you want to spam for some forum every time you post?

you are helping the 'owner' of the forum you use to ass up the r.a.c.
and promote his site at the same time.
--
sancho
this post was intended for usenet, if you are reading this post on a
webforum it is because someone has STOLEN it to use as content to draw
traffic to his site... please acquire a proper newsreader if you want to
access rec.audio.car and rethink your patronage of said site...




rpgonzalez wrote:

It depends. What inherent advantage do you feel a w7 has? Keep in mind
my
other comments regarding power handling and linear xmax.


The w7 is supposed to have much better SQ than other JL's. Although I
personally disagree.. I think the whole line of JL audio subs is geared
towards more throw and less accuracy. I have witnesses W7's in
different enclosures, although the JL character remains the same. And I
formed this opinion by listening, not formed the opinion then listened.
I dont know how these guys engineer the differences.. but I have been
able to identify a JL just by getting in a strangers car.


You can easily get any sub to "hit lower" than a Shiva if you had the
right
box and a sub with the right excursion capabilities.


wouldnt excursion capabilitiy be a characteristic of the woofer and not
the box?


"Sense" or hear?



sorry, I f*cked that whole part up. I really wanted to go into detail
about the "down to 15 Hz" statement, but I was at work and just threw
something in... something that Im sorry to say insulted many people's
intelligence (probably). Really, I wanted to touch upon the fact that
the sub Steve was referring to that goes down to 15Hz is probably not
noticeable in real life. Yes, the bottom line is 15 Hz, but there is
also a drop off rate preceeding that 15 Hz. Maybe the sub starts
dropping off @ 50Hz. Lets say both a 15Hz sub and a 20Hz sub start
dropping at 50Hz. By the time you get to the range between 15Hz and
20Hz, the differences should be... negligible. i can eloborate more
maybe, but I have to play ratchet and clank now..
--
rpgonzalez
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: http://www.carassioforum.com/showthr...hreadid=171195

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