[Tom Evans]

What's the best digital music recording program that comes with many
terrific instrument sounds?

I'm thinking of buying Logic Pro 10, as I'm a Mac user and I'm using
Garageband and a controller to record songs on the Mac, but I'm finding
Garageband's instrument sounds are too limited.

The price of Logic seems to be good ($200) but I wonder if there's a
program that easeir to learn and use; Logic seems to be complicated.

[hank alrich]

Tom Evans wrote:

What's the best digital music recording program that comes with many
terrific instrument sounds?

I'm thinking of buying Logic Pro 10, as I'm a Mac user and I'm using
Garageband and a controller to record songs on the Mac, but I'm finding
Garageband's instrument sounds are too limited.

The price of Logic seems to be good ($200) but I wonder if there's a
program that easeir to learn and use; Logic seems to be complicated.

All the DAW programs that offer a lot of power and flexibility are
complicated. There are various interpretations of the GUI, and various
concepts of terminology for the names of facilities and elements. How
you react to those is what makes ro breaks your relationship to the
application.

I'm still back on Logic Pro 9.something so I can't speak to changes made
to Logic X, said by a friend of mine to be excellent. I started on v. 5
Gold, and met the "problem" right off. Back then you had to configure
the whole setup via the Environment to manifest the system as you liked
it. With no experince of the app or the process, little comprehension of
the terminology, unable to get anything done until this was all worked
through, I found it a daunting situation. Once I had climbed that
particular mountain things went fairly smoothly.

These days when asked about DAW apps, or when thinking what I'll do when
upgrade becomes necessary, I look over at Reaper, which is already quite
powerful, well supported, and truly fairly priced. As with all of them,
it offers its own way of going about the work, and there will be new
stuff to learn.

Look for friends who use the vrious DAW apps, and see if you can get a
test drive at their house.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

[Tom Evans]

On 2014-12-06 05:55:02 -0800, hank alrich said:

Tom Evans wrote:

What's the best digital music recording program that comes with many
terrific instrument sounds?

I'm thinking of buying Logic Pro 10, as I'm a Mac user and I'm using
Garageband and a controller to record songs on the Mac, but I'm finding
Garageband's instrument sounds are too limited.

The price of Logic seems to be good ($200) but I wonder if there's a
program that easeir to learn and use; Logic seems to be complicated.

All the DAW programs that offer a lot of power and flexibility are
complicated. There are various interpretations of the GUI, and various
concepts of terminology for the names of facilities and elements. How
you react to those is what makes ro breaks your relationship to the
application.

I'm still back on Logic Pro 9.something so I can't speak to changes made
to Logic X, said by a friend of mine to be excellent. I started on v. 5
Gold, and met the "problem" right off. Back then you had to configure
the whole setup via the Environment to manifest the system as you liked
it. With no experince of the app or the process, little comprehension of
the terminology, unable to get anything done until this was all worked
through, I found it a daunting situation. Once I had climbed that
particular mountain things went fairly smoothly.

These days when asked about DAW apps, or when thinking what I'll do when
upgrade becomes necessary, I look over at Reaper, which is already quite
powerful, well supported, and truly fairly priced. As with all of them,
it offers its own way of going about the work, and there will be new
stuff to learn.

Look for friends who use the vrious DAW apps, and see if you can get a
test drive at their house.

Thanks, Hank.

I don't have any friends who own DAWs.

Tom

[geoff]

On 7/12/2014 2:55 a.m., hank alrich wrote:

These days when asked about DAW apps, or when thinking what I'll do when
upgrade becomes necessary, I look over at Reaper, which is already quite
powerful, well supported, and truly fairly priced. As with all of them,
it offers its own way of going about the work, and there will be new
stuff to learn.

ANd given that it was based-on/inspired-by Vegas,m has a relatively
straightforward easy workflow. I've always found the germanic-origin
applications very steep in the learning curve department.


geoff

[flatfish+++[_3_]]

On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 14:05:38 +1300, geoff wrote:

On 7/12/2014 2:55 a.m., hank alrich wrote:

These days when asked about DAW apps, or when thinking what I'll do when
upgrade becomes necessary, I look over at Reaper, which is already quite
powerful, well supported, and truly fairly priced. As with all of them,
it offers its own way of going about the work, and there will be new
stuff to learn.

ANd given that it was based-on/inspired-by Vegas,m has a relatively
straightforward easy workflow. I've always found the germanic-origin
applications very steep in the learning curve department.


geoff

The most obtuse and difficult DAW program I ever used was Emagic
Logic for the PC. Many years ago of course. I literally could not get
a squeak out of that one and actually had a student at the local
college help me set it up. What a bear albeit probably the most
powerful MIDI program at the time.


--
flatfish+++

Linux: The Operating System That Put The City Of Munich Out Of
Business.
Before Switching To Linux Read This:
http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux...current.htm l

[hank alrich]

f flatfish+++ wrote:

On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 14:05:38 +1300, geoff wrote:

On 7/12/2014 2:55 a.m., hank alrich wrote:

These days when asked about DAW apps, or when thinking what I'll do when
upgrade becomes necessary, I look over at Reaper, which is already quite
powerful, well supported, and truly fairly priced. As with all of them,
it offers its own way of going about the work, and there will be new
stuff to learn.

ANd given that it was based-on/inspired-by Vegas,m has a relatively
straightforward easy workflow. I've always found the germanic-origin
applications very steep in the learning curve department.


geoff

The most obtuse and difficult DAW program I ever used was Emagic
Logic for the PC. Many years ago of course. I literally could not get
a squeak out of that one and actually had a student at the local
college help me set it up. What a bear albeit probably the most
powerful MIDI program at the time.

Regardless of platform back then, you could not do anything until you
had figured out the Environment. A few versions later, and after Apple
bought Emagic, it arrived with starter templates for a variety of
Environments, making gettin going a lot easier.

For a dumbass guitar player like me, that first encounter with Logic's
Environment was daunting.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

[flatfish+++[_3_]]

On Sun, 7 Dec 2014 01:08:21 -0600, hank alrich wrote:

f flatfish+++ wrote:

On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 14:05:38 +1300, geoff wrote:

On 7/12/2014 2:55 a.m., hank alrich wrote:

These days when asked about DAW apps, or when thinking what I'll do when
upgrade becomes necessary, I look over at Reaper, which is already quite
powerful, well supported, and truly fairly priced. As with all of them,
it offers its own way of going about the work, and there will be new
stuff to learn.

ANd given that it was based-on/inspired-by Vegas,m has a relatively
straightforward easy workflow. I've always found the germanic-origin
applications very steep in the learning curve department.


geoff

The most obtuse and difficult DAW program I ever used was Emagic
Logic for the PC. Many years ago of course. I literally could not get
a squeak out of that one and actually had a student at the local
college help me set it up. What a bear albeit probably the most
powerful MIDI program at the time.

Regardless of platform back then, you could not do anything until you
had figured out the Environment. A few versions later, and after Apple
bought Emagic, it arrived with starter templates for a variety of
Environments, making gettin going a lot easier.

Environment!
That brings back bad memories lol !

For a dumbass guitar player like me, that first encounter with Logic's
Environment was daunting.

As a keyboard player with a couple of modules at the time I was
completely and totally lost.

--
flatfish+++

Linux: The Operating System That Put The City Of Munich Out Of
Business.
Before Switching To Linux Read This:
http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux...current.htm l

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 12/6/2014 1:47 AM, Tom Evans wrote:
What's the best digital music recording program that comes with many
terrific instrument sounds?

The price of Logic seems to be good ($200) but I wonder if there's a
program that easeir to learn and use; Logic seems to be complicated.

Sounds are as good as you want to pay for. What comes with the basic
program varies from blah to pretty good, and what's blah and what's good
depends on what you're looking for.

They're all too complicated, and today none of them inherently sound
worse or better than the others. Sound is dependent on the source (or
virtual instrument software) and the A/D and D/A converters in your
computer or interface. That's another thing that more money can buy
better, but pretty good is good enough for most purposes.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without
a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be
operated without a passing knowledge of audio" - John Watkinson

Drop by http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com now and then

[flatfish+++[_3_]]

On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 22:47:35 -0800, Tom Evans wrote:

What's the best digital music recording program that comes with many
terrific instrument sounds?

I'm thinking of buying Logic Pro 10, as I'm a Mac user and I'm using
Garageband and a controller to record songs on the Mac, but I'm finding
Garageband's instrument sounds are too limited.

The price of Logic seems to be good ($200) but I wonder if there's a
program that easeir to learn and use; Logic seems to be complicated.

If you are a composer it's hard to beat Studio One for work flow,
ease of use and a decent compliment of instruments.
IMHO it's probably the least complex of all the DAW software and
while it doesn't have the extreme granularity and superb MIDI control
that say Cubase has, it does have more than enough features for most.

I use the Windows version (Studio One Professional) so can't comment
on the Mac version but it's been ultra stable for me.

http://www.presonus.com/products/Stu...e/what-you-get

Another alternative is to stick with Logic, spend some time watching
YouTube and learn what you might be struggling with. Then spend the
money you save by not DAW hopping on something like Kontact.
Depending on the version, you'll get a bazillion high quality
(mostly) instruments.

In my experience, unless you truly hate a particular DAW, hopping to
a new one rarely solves the problems. The grass isn't always greener
etc.

Good luck!



--
flatfish+++

Linux: The Operating System That Put The City Of Munich Out Of
Business.
Before Switching To Linux Read This:
http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux...current.htm l

[Tom Evans]

On 2014-12-06 09:40:40 -0800, flatfish+++ said:

On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 22:47:35 -0800, Tom Evans wrote:

What's the best digital music recording program that comes with many
terrific instrument sounds?

I'm thinking of buying Logic Pro 10, as I'm a Mac user and I'm using
Garageband and a controller to record songs on the Mac, but I'm finding
Garageband's instrument sounds are too limited.

The price of Logic seems to be good ($200) but I wonder if there's a
program that easeir to learn and use; Logic seems to be complicated.

If you are a composer it's hard to beat Studio One for work flow,
ease of use and a decent compliment of instruments.
IMHO it's probably the least complex of all the DAW software and
while it doesn't have the extreme granularity and superb MIDI control
that say Cubase has, it does have more than enough features for most.

I use the Windows version (Studio One Professional) so can't comment
on the Mac version but it's been ultra stable for me.

http://www.presonus.com/products/Stu...e/what-you-get

Another alternative is to stick with Logic, spend some time watching
YouTube and learn what you might be struggling with. Then spend the
money you save by not DAW hopping on something like Kontact.
Depending on the version, you'll get a bazillion high quality
(mostly) instruments.

In my experience, unless you truly hate a particular DAW, hopping to
a new one rarely solves the problems. The grass isn't always greener
etc.

Good luck!

Thanks, Flat Fish.

Am I right that the version of Studio One for making pro-quality music
for publishing would be the $499 "Studio One 2 Professional" version?

The various versions of Studio One are shown on this page about
two-thirds of the way down the page:
http://eadox.com/EAwebPubDocs/PLreta...v14_retail.pdf

Tom

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 12/6/2014 1:43 PM, Tom Evans wrote:
Am I right that the version of Studio One for making pro-quality music
for publishing would be the $499 "Studio One 2 Professional" version?

It's the USER that makes pro-quality music, not the program. The
difference between the versions is how many goodies they give you. And
they always have sales. Check the PreSonus web site. You just missed
their Black Friday deal, but maybe it's been extended like just about
everyone else's.

Why don't you download the free version and try it. It comes with a
handful of instruments so you can play with it and decide if you can
make pro quality music with it, knowing that if the only thing that
doesn't sound "professional" to you is the sounds, you can make that
better by throwing money at it.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without
a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be
operated without a passing knowledge of audio" - John Watkinson

Drop by http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com now and then

[flatfish+++[_3_]]

On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 17:23:35 -0500, Mike Rivers wrote:

On 12/6/2014 1:43 PM, Tom Evans wrote:
Am I right that the version of Studio One for making pro-quality music
for publishing would be the $499 "Studio One 2 Professional" version?

It's the USER that makes pro-quality music, not the program. The
difference between the versions is how many goodies they give you. And
they always have sales. Check the PreSonus web site. You just missed
their Black Friday deal, but maybe it's been extended like just about
everyone else's.

Bingo.

Why don't you download the free version and try it. It comes with a
handful of instruments so you can play with it and decide if you can
make pro quality music with it, knowing that if the only thing that
doesn't sound "professional" to you is the sounds, you can make that
better by throwing money at it.

+1 again.
I see so many people DAW hopping, wasting money and looking for the
holy grail.
Ain't no such thing. That green grass will have some brown patches in
a couple of weeks and the user will end up DAW hopping again.

Spend the money on some decent VSTi.

--
flatfish+++

Linux: The Operating System That Put The City Of Munich Out Of
Business.
Before Switching To Linux Read This:
http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux...current.htm l

[Tom Evans]

On 2014-12-06 14:34:25 -0800, flatfish+++ said:

On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 17:23:35 -0500, Mike Rivers wrote:

On 12/6/2014 1:43 PM, Tom Evans wrote:
Am I right that the version of Studio One for making pro-quality music
for publishing would be the $499 "Studio One 2 Professional" version?

It's the USER that makes pro-quality music, not the program. The
difference between the versions is how many goodies they give you. And
they always have sales. Check the PreSonus web site. You just missed
their Black Friday deal, but maybe it's been extended like just about
everyone else's.

Bingo.

I didn't see sale prices there.


Why don't you download the free version and try it. It comes with a
handful of instruments so you can play with it and decide if you can
make pro quality music with it, knowing that if the only thing that
doesn't sound "professional" to you is the sounds, you can make that
better by throwing money at it.

Can't I do that using Garageband? I don't have much money to throw.

+1 again.
I see so many people DAW hopping, wasting money and looking for the
holy grail.
Ain't no such thing. That green grass will have some brown patches in
a couple of weeks and the user will end up DAW hopping again.

Spend the money on some decent VSTi.

Is there great libraries of sounds (that you call VSTI) that a

1. Mac-compatible and
2. work well in Garageband and
3 are reasonably priced?

I looked at East West but it costs $700, which is far more than my budget.

I'd be happy to stick with Garageband because the format is simple,
compared to the other programs I've viewed, but there aren't many good
instrument sounds.

Tom

[geoff]

On 7/12/2014 7:43 a.m., Tom Evans wrote:


Am I right that the version of Studio One for making pro-quality music
for publishing would be the $499 "Studio One 2 Professional" version?


Don't think that by purchasing an app with "professional" in the name
that any result will be professional. Pretty much ALL DAWs are capable
of turning out professional quality results.

The 'instrument sounds' that come bundled with some DAWs are often just
something to get you started, though some are quite comprehensive. When
you get serious you can purchase third-party VSTi instruments and
libraries of sounds.

And another option is to record real instruments ;-)


geoff

[Tom Evans]

On 2014-12-06 17:11:30 -0800, geoff said:

On 7/12/2014 7:43 a.m., Tom Evans wrote:


Am I right that the version of Studio One for making pro-quality music
for publishing would be the $499 "Studio One 2 Professional" version?


Don't think that by purchasing an app with "professional" in the name
that any result will be professional.

Thanks, Geoff.

That's obvious. I'm not naive.

Pretty much ALL DAWs are capable of turning out professional quality results.

The 'instrument sounds' that come bundled with some DAWs are often just
something to get you started, though some are quite comprehensive. When
you get serious you can purchase third-party VSTi instruments and
libraries of sounds.

I'm confused; I'm looking for instrument sounds, but you've separated
that into instruments and libraries of sounds. What's the difference?

And another option is to record real instruments ;-)

That's unnecessary for me because I have access to digital orchestras
with my DAW.

Tom

[geoff]

On 8/12/2014 8:27 p.m., Tom Evans wrote:
..

Alluding to musical skills like physically playing arpeggios on a
keyboard - perhaps not quite where you are coming from.

I'm confused; I'm looking for instrument sounds, but you've separated
that into instruments and libraries of sounds. What's the difference?

Many instrument come with basic (or not so basic) sounds which can be
samples, synthesied, or a mixture.

You can get separate libraries of samples or synth ptaches to augment
the included ones.


And another option is to record real instruments ;-)

That's unnecessary for me because I have access to digital orchestras
with my DAW.

Real live sound and players have no chance then ;-)

But seriously, I think you need to dive into some magasines to get a
good basic grounding which you seem to be lacking. I guess they are all
available online now. Sound On Sound is. Do Computer Music and
Electrponic Musician still exist?

geoff

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 12/8/2014 2:27 AM, Tom Evans wrote:
I'm confused; I'm looking for instrument sounds, but you've separated
that into instruments and libraries of sounds. What's the difference?

There isn't just a single sound that a piano or a violin or a tuba or an
electronic drum makes. A good sample "library" will have many versions
of each instrument played in different ways, over different ranges (you
don't just play middle C, shift the pitch up and down the scale, and
have a piano), and at different volumes. So your "Steinway 8 foot Grand
Piano" is actually a library of sounds from a single piano. A good VSTI
will detect things like the MIDI velocity and pick the sounds from the
library that sound like a piano played with that touch. Since real piano
players play with dynamics, throughout a song, there may be a number of
different samples of the same piano playing the same note.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without
a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be
operated without a passing knowledge of audio" - John Watkinson

Drop by http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com now and then

[Tom Evans]

On 2014-12-06 09:40:40 -0800, flatfish+++ said:

On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 22:47:35 -0800, Tom Evans wrote:

What's the best digital music recording program that comes with many
terrific instrument sounds?

I'm thinking of buying Logic Pro 10, as I'm a Mac user and I'm using
Garageband and a controller to record songs on the Mac, but I'm finding
Garageband's instrument sounds are too limited.

The price of Logic seems to be good ($200) but I wonder if there's a
program that easeir to learn and use; Logic seems to be complicated.

If you are a composer it's hard to beat Studio One for work flow,
ease of use and a decent compliment of instruments.
IMHO it's probably the least complex of all the DAW software and
while it doesn't have the extreme granularity and superb MIDI control
that say Cubase has, it does have more than enough features for most.

I use the Windows version (Studio One Professional) so can't comment
on the Mac version but it's been ultra stable for me.

http://www.presonus.com/products/Stu...e/what-you-get

Another alternative is to stick with Logic, spend some time watching
YouTube and learn what you might be struggling with. Then spend the
money you save by not DAW hopping on something like Kontact.
Depending on the version, you'll get a bazillion high quality
(mostly) instruments.

In my experience, unless you truly hate a particular DAW, hopping to
a new one rarely solves the problems. The grass isn't always greener
etc.

Good luck!

Thanks, Flatfish.

I downloaded the 30-day demo of Kontakt and I wasn't impressed with
most of the sounds because some of them sounded low-quality and there
are only 40 sounds in the package. I went to a local music store
earlier this year and asked for a salesman for a good software
instrument sounds library and his first recommendation was a box
containing that same Kontakt sound library of only 40 sounds and the
price if I recall correctly was $140.

That seems like a bad deal compared to Logic, which costs $200 and
comes with thousands of sounds and loops in addition to the
comprehensive recording and mastering functions of Logic, so I 'm
confused about this seeming discrepancy. Can anyone explaining this
apparent discrepancy to me?

Tom

[geoff]

On 7/12/2014 7:57 a.m., Tom Evans wrote:


I downloaded the 30-day demo of Kontakt and I wasn't impressed with most
of the sounds because some of them sounded low-quality and there are
only 40 sounds in the package.

Is it possible that there is another factor in your system that smirches
'good sounds' into sounding crappy ? Speakers, amplifier, headphones,
soundcard, room, etc ?

Or are they maybe just sounds that are not your cup of soup style-wise ?

geoff

[Tom Evans]

On 2014-12-06 17:15:16 -0800, geoff said:

On 7/12/2014 7:57 a.m., Tom Evans wrote:


I downloaded the 30-day demo of Kontakt and I wasn't impressed with most
of the sounds because some of them sounded low-quality and there are
only 40 sounds in the package.

Is it possible that there is another factor in your system that
smirches 'good sounds' into sounding crappy ? Speakers, amplifier,
headphones, soundcard, room, etc ?

Or are they maybe just sounds that are not your cup of soup style-wise ?

geoff

Thanks, Geoff.

Most of the Kontakt sounds are not my cup of soup style-wise. (To put
it more simply, I don't like most of them.)

By contrast, I find that most of the sounds on the Apple site Logic
section sample audio clip are marvellous, with or without headphones.
So that's the level of quality I'm looking for.

It's not a matter of speakers, amplifier, headphones, soundcard or
room. I think it's more a matter of my preferences.

Tom

[geoff]

On 7/12/2014 6:07 p.m., Tom Evans wrote:


It's not a matter of speakers, amplifier, headphones, soundcard or
room. I think it's more a matter of my preferences.

Luckily, most VSTis and sample libraries have free demo versions ....


geoff

[Scott Dorsey]

Tom Evans wrote:

Most of the Kontakt sounds are not my cup of soup style-wise. (To put
it more simply, I don't like most of them.)

Then purchase a third-party sample library. Pick the software you like,
then purchase sounds for it, not the other way around.

Or make your own samples.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Tom Evans]

On 2014-12-06 09:40:40 -0800, flatfish+++ said:

On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 22:47:35 -0800, Tom Evans wrote:

What's the best digital music recording program that comes with many
terrific instrument sounds?

I'm thinking of buying Logic Pro 10, as I'm a Mac user and I'm using
Garageband and a controller to record songs on the Mac, but I'm finding
Garageband's instrument sounds are too limited.

The price of Logic seems to be good ($200) but I wonder if there's a
program that easeir to learn and use; Logic seems to be complicated.

If you are a composer it's hard to beat Studio One for work flow,
ease of use and a decent compliment of instruments.
IMHO it's probably the least complex of all the DAW software and
while it doesn't have the extreme granularity and superb MIDI control
that say Cubase has, it does have more than enough features for most.

I use the Windows version (Studio One Professional) so can't comment
on the Mac version but it's been ultra stable for me.

http://www.presonus.com/products/Stu...e/what-you-get

Another alternative is to stick with Logic, spend some time watching
YouTube and learn what you might be struggling with. Then spend the
money you save by not DAW hopping on something like Kontact.
Depending on the version, you'll get a bazillion high quality
(mostly) instruments.

In my experience, unless you truly hate a particular DAW, hopping to
a new one rarely solves the problems. The grass isn't always greener
etc.

Good luck!

Thanks, Flatfish.

I'm looking for better software instrument sounds and Garageband's
collection (even with the 30 gigabytes provided by the Mainstage jam
packs seems pretty limited in quality except for some instrument sounds
such as piano and a few of the synths, and even Garageband's function
where you can combine instrument sounds to come up with uniqure sounds
has only given me a few uniqure sounds that sound really cool to me.

It sounds like Logic has far more terrific sounds than Garageband with
Mainstage, so that also seems to contradict your statement that
changing DAWs rarely solve problems. Also, Garageband with Mainstage
is for beginners, whereas I'm hoping to make and publish pro-quality
sounds, so that also seems to contradict your statement that switching
DAWs rarely solves problems.

Tom

[flatfish+++[_3_]]

On Sat, 6 Dec 2014 10:59:41 -0800, Tom Evans wrote:

On 2014-12-06 09:40:40 -0800, flatfish+++ said:

On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 22:47:35 -0800, Tom Evans wrote:

What's the best digital music recording program that comes with many
terrific instrument sounds?

I'm thinking of buying Logic Pro 10, as I'm a Mac user and I'm using
Garageband and a controller to record songs on the Mac, but I'm finding
Garageband's instrument sounds are too limited.

The price of Logic seems to be good ($200) but I wonder if there's a
program that easeir to learn and use; Logic seems to be complicated.

If you are a composer it's hard to beat Studio One for work flow,
ease of use and a decent compliment of instruments.
IMHO it's probably the least complex of all the DAW software and
while it doesn't have the extreme granularity and superb MIDI control
that say Cubase has, it does have more than enough features for most.

I use the Windows version (Studio One Professional) so can't comment
on the Mac version but it's been ultra stable for me.

http://www.presonus.com/products/Stu...e/what-you-get

Another alternative is to stick with Logic, spend some time watching
YouTube and learn what you might be struggling with. Then spend the
money you save by not DAW hopping on something like Kontact.
Depending on the version, you'll get a bazillion high quality
(mostly) instruments.

In my experience, unless you truly hate a particular DAW, hopping to
a new one rarely solves the problems. The grass isn't always greener
etc.

Good luck!

Thanks, Flatfish.

I'm looking for better software instrument sounds and Garageband's
collection (even with the 30 gigabytes provided by the Mainstage jam
packs seems pretty limited in quality except for some instrument sounds
such as piano and a few of the synths, and even Garageband's function
where you can combine instrument sounds to come up with uniqure sounds
has only given me a few uniqure sounds that sound really cool to me.

It sounds like Logic has far more terrific sounds than Garageband with
Mainstage, so that also seems to contradict your statement that
changing DAWs rarely solve problems. Also, Garageband with Mainstage
is for beginners, whereas I'm hoping to make and publish pro-quality
sounds, so that also seems to contradict your statement that switching
DAWs rarely solves problems.

Tom

You have to compare "Apples with Apples". Comparing Garageband with
Logic is like comparing a Porsche to a Ford Fiesta.

Of course moving to a higher end product is going to provide more
features.

I'm talking about jumping from Cubase Professional to Studio One
Professional to CakeWalk Sonar Producer etc. Not comparing the bottom
product to the top tier product.

I see people spend more time hopping DAW software than making music.
It rarely solves their problems unless like I said there they
absolutely hate their current DAW software.

Good luck.



--
flatfish+++

Linux: The Operating System That Put The City Of Munich Out Of
Business.
Before Switching To Linux Read This:
http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux...current.htm l

[Luxey]

�убота, 06. децембар 2014. 22.35.09 UTC+1, flatfish+++ је напи�ао/ла:
On Sat, 6 Dec 2014 10:59:41 -0800, Tom Evans wrote:

On 2014-12-06 09:40:40 -0800, flatfish+++ said:

On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 22:47:35 -0800, Tom Evans wrote:

What's the best digital music recording program that comes with many
terrific instrument sounds?

I'm thinking of buying Logic Pro 10, as I'm a Mac user and I'm using
Garageband and a controller to record songs on the Mac, but I'm finding
Garageband's instrument sounds are too limited.

The price of Logic seems to be good ($200) but I wonder if there's a
program that easeir to learn and use; Logic seems to be complicated.

If you are a composer it's hard to beat Studio One for work flow,
ease of use and a decent compliment of instruments.
IMHO it's probably the least complex of all the DAW software and
while it doesn't have the extreme granularity and superb MIDI control
that say Cubase has, it does have more than enough features for most.

I use the Windows version (Studio One Professional) so can't comment
on the Mac version but it's been ultra stable for me.

http://www.presonus.com/products/Stu...e/what-you-get

Another alternative is to stick with Logic, spend some time watching
YouTube and learn what you might be struggling with. Then spend the
money you save by not DAW hopping on something like Kontact.
Depending on the version, you'll get a bazillion high quality
(mostly) instruments.

In my experience, unless you truly hate a particular DAW, hopping to
a new one rarely solves the problems. The grass isn't always greener
etc.

Good luck!

Thanks, Flatfish.

I'm looking for better software instrument sounds and Garageband's
collection (even with the 30 gigabytes provided by the Mainstage jam
packs seems pretty limited in quality except for some instrument sounds
such as piano and a few of the synths, and even Garageband's function
where you can combine instrument sounds to come up with uniqure sounds
has only given me a few uniqure sounds that sound really cool to me.

It sounds like Logic has far more terrific sounds than Garageband with
Mainstage, so that also seems to contradict your statement that
changing DAWs rarely solve problems. Also, Garageband with Mainstage
is for beginners, whereas I'm hoping to make and publish pro-quality
sounds, so that also seems to contradict your statement that switching
DAWs rarely solves problems.

Tom

You have to compare "Apples with Apples". Comparing Garageband with
Logic is like comparing a Porsche to a Ford Fiesta.

Of course moving to a higher end product is going to provide more
features.

I'm talking about jumping from Cubase Professional to Studio One
Professional to CakeWalk Sonar Producer etc. Not comparing the bottom
product to the top tier product.

I see people spend more time hopping DAW software than making music.
It rarely solves their problems unless like I said there they
absolutely hate their current DAW software.

Good luck.



--
flatfish+++

Linux: The Operating System That Put The City Of Munich Out Of
Business.
Before Switching To Linux Read This:
http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux...urrent..ht ml

Well, here are some of us loving Fiestas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azRooC21mm0

[hank alrich]

Tom Evans wrote:

I'm looking for better software instrument sounds and Garageband's
collection (even with the 30 gigabytes provided by the Mainstage jam
packs seems pretty limited in quality except for some instrument sounds
such as piano and a few of the synths, and even Garageband's function
where you can combine instrument sounds to come up with uniqure sounds
has only given me a few uniqure sounds that sound really cool to me.

It sounds like Logic has far more terrific sounds than Garageband with
Mainstage, so that also seems to contradict your statement that
changing DAWs rarely solve problems. Also, Garageband with Mainstage
is for beginners, whereas I'm hoping to make and publish pro-quality
sounds, so that also seems to contradict your statement that switching
DAWs rarely solves problems.

Punch this into a Google search:

garageband virtual instrument package

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

[Orlando Enrique Fiol]

In article ,
wrote:
If you are a composer it's hard to beat Studio One for work flow,
ease of use and a decent compliment of instruments.
IMHO it's probably the least complex of all the DAW software and
while it doesn't have the extreme granularity and superb MIDI control
that say Cubase has, it does have more than enough features for most.
I use the Windows version (Studio One Professional) so can't comment
on the Mac version but it's been ultra stable for me.

I'm a totally blind composer/arranger who's been out of the DAW scene for the
past 14 years, ever since Cakewalk and Sonar went through horribly inaccessible
periods. I've looked into Reaper and have spoken with blind folks using Pro
Tools on Macs with Voiceover. My main concern is the accessibility of virtual
instruments (softsynths) and MIDI event editing. Does Studio 1 have any kind of
staff notational component?
Thanks,
Orlando

[flatfish+++[_3_]]

On Sat, 6 Dec 2014 14:57:03 -0500, Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:

In article ,
wrote:
If you are a composer it's hard to beat Studio One for work flow,
ease of use and a decent compliment of instruments.
IMHO it's probably the least complex of all the DAW software and
while it doesn't have the extreme granularity and superb MIDI control
that say Cubase has, it does have more than enough features for most.
I use the Windows version (Studio One Professional) so can't comment
on the Mac version but it's been ultra stable for me.

I'm a totally blind composer/arranger who's been out of the DAW scene for the
past 14 years, ever since Cakewalk and Sonar went through horribly inaccessible
periods. I've looked into Reaper and have spoken with blind folks using Pro
Tools on Macs with Voiceover. My main concern is the accessibility of virtual
instruments (softsynths) and MIDI event editing. Does Studio 1 have any kind of
staff notational component?
Thanks,
Orlando

Presonus sells Notion software as a separate product. I use Finale to
generate notation and parts so I can't comment on how good/bad it is.

I can understand how you feel about Sonar though.
The X interface is horrible.

I've been a Sonar/Cakewalk user since Greg used to answer the support
lines and I hate it.
To each her own.

--
flatfish+++

Linux: The Operating System That Put The City Of Munich Out Of
Business.
Before Switching To Linux Read This:
http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux...current.htm l

[geoff]

On 7/12/2014 8:57 a.m., Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
If you are a composer it's hard to beat Studio One for work flow,
ease of use and a decent compliment of instruments.
IMHO it's probably the least complex of all the DAW software and
while it doesn't have the extreme granularity and superb MIDI control
that say Cubase has, it does have more than enough features for most.
I use the Windows version (Studio One Professional) so can't comment
on the Mac version but it's been ultra stable for me.

I'm a totally blind composer/arranger who's been out of the DAW scene for the
past 14 years, ever since Cakewalk and Sonar went through horribly inaccessible
periods. I've looked into Reaper and have spoken with blind folks using Pro
Tools on Macs with Voiceover. My main concern is the accessibility of virtual
instruments (softsynths) and MIDI event editing. Does Studio 1 have any kind of
staff notational component?
Thanks,
Orlando



Most of these 'sounds' are EXTERNAL to the core DAW itself, and are
third-party plug-ins which can be added to, replace, or deleted.

geoff

[flatfish+++[_3_]]

On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 14:17:00 +1300, geoff wrote:

On 7/12/2014 8:57 a.m., Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
If you are a composer it's hard to beat Studio One for work flow,
ease of use and a decent compliment of instruments.
IMHO it's probably the least complex of all the DAW software and
while it doesn't have the extreme granularity and superb MIDI control
that say Cubase has, it does have more than enough features for most.
I use the Windows version (Studio One Professional) so can't comment
on the Mac version but it's been ultra stable for me.

I'm a totally blind composer/arranger who's been out of the DAW scene for the
past 14 years, ever since Cakewalk and Sonar went through horribly inaccessible
periods. I've looked into Reaper and have spoken with blind folks using Pro
Tools on Macs with Voiceover. My main concern is the accessibility of virtual
instruments (softsynths) and MIDI event editing. Does Studio 1 have any kind of
staff notational component?
Thanks,
Orlando



Most of these 'sounds' are EXTERNAL to the core DAW itself, and are
third-party plug-ins which can be added to, replace, or deleted.

geoff

Here is a thread in GS discussing "sounds"...
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/musi...endations.html

--
flatfish+++

Linux: The Operating System That Put The City Of Munich Out Of
Business.
Before Switching To Linux Read This:
http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux...current.htm l

[Tom Evans]

On 2014-12-06 19:30:57 -0800, flatfish+++ said:

On Sun, 07 Dec 2014 14:17:00 +1300, geoff wrote:

On 7/12/2014 8:57 a.m., Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:


Most of these 'sounds' are EXTERNAL to the core DAW itself, and are
third-party plug-ins which can be added to, replace, or deleted.

geoff

Here is a thread in GS discussing "sounds"...
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/musi...endations.html


Thanks, Flatfish.

Wow, that's quite a list! I haven't even heard of most of those
collections of sounds. Sounds like some obscure collections of sounds!

It could take me weeks to go through all those collections!

I downloaded Zebralette after reading that thread. But Zebraletter has
a complex, 26-page manaul and requires a separate program to hear the
sounds and it requires all sorts of adjusttments that would take a ton
of time just of test that one collection out of the dozens listed in
the thread.

What I'm looking for is collections I can download into Garageband and
test in Garageband by playing a note or a chord on my controller. Or
better yet, to be able to hear audio clips on the manufacturers' Web
sites by pressing the play button, like I can in the Apple site for
Logic Pro clips.

Also, I'm not interested in adjusting waveforms to come up with new
sounds. I'm looking for pre-set instrument sounds that I can just
play as they are (except for maybe boosting the reverb and echo or
adjusting the arpeggiator like I can do in Garageband to get an
instrument to sound better.

Tom

[Paul[_13_]]

On 12/5/2014 11:47 PM, Tom Evans wrote:
What's the best digital music recording program that comes with many
terrific instrument sounds?

I'm thinking of buying Logic Pro 10, as I'm a Mac user and I'm using
Garageband and a controller to record songs on the Mac, but I'm finding
Garageband's instrument sounds are too limited.

The price of Logic seems to be good ($200) but I wonder if there's a
program that easeir to learn and use; Logic seems to be complicated.



I've been happy with Cubase 5.

Although it DOES sometimes get the digital "hiccups", in which case
you have to restart the program. It's also a probably due to the fact
that I'm only using dual-core and not a quad-core machine, and only 4
Gigs of RAM.

[PStamler]

I think Mike Rivers nailed an essential question: what kind of music do you want to compose? What's right for symphonic-style music wouldn't be right for World Beat, and vice versa.

Your first question was about the software, and there I can give you a straight answer: Reaper probably gives the biggest bang for the buck. However, you need to realize that you'll probably need to buy sample libraries, over and above the sounds bundled with sequencing software, which are usually kind of generic. And as I said before, you'll probably have to pay some good money for those libraries, because they cost a lot to produce. You'll also need to spend a good deal of time listening to whatever library you buy, so you know the sounds well enough on a gut level to use them in your compositions. There's no shortcut that'll let you skip that, unfortunately, any more than you can skip the process of learning to use your DAW. We haven't got an "efficient" way to download knowledge into a user's brain directly; we humans learn by listening and trying things. And playing with the equipment when no one's around.

A couple of years ago, I spent a year taking MIDI and sequencing classes as part of getting my Master's degree (at 63!). I discovered several things:

1. I loved it.

2. It took a *lot* of time -- I'd go to the school's MIDI lab as a reward to myself, and I'd look up and it was 1 a.m.. The number of things to tweak ate up a whole lot of time. Fortunately, because of item 1., I was more than happy to spend the time.

3. It ain't cheap. Luckily, Reaper is relatively affordable, but my experience of DAW programs in general is that the samples bundled with them are kind of generic, and as somebody said, they're mostly oriented to contemporary pop music. Since I was trying to do other things, I was kind of limited by that. If I was going to get serious about this, I'd have to spend the bucks for a much more powerful computer than I have, a bunch more hardware, and some seriously expensive sample libraries. I'm sorry, but getting into music in any kind of serious way is going to cost; have you priced a pro-level bassoon lately? Anyway, I realized that, though I loved doing this, I didn't have the money to do it right, or even close. If I ever win the lottery, though, look out.

Tom, I don't know if this helps answer your question, and I suspect the answer will be disappointing in parts. But that's the best info I can give you right now -- there ain't no cheap or efficient road to beautiful sounds, but if you get on a road anyway, you'll probably have a lot of fun on it.

Peace,
Paul

[geoff]

On 12/12/2014 7:22 a.m., PStamler wrote:

A couple of years ago, I spent a year taking MIDI and sequencing classes as part of getting my Master's degree (at 63!). I discovered several things:

You could have done a masters degree in Mac instead !


geoff

[Tom Evans]

On 2014-12-11 12:09:43 -0800, geoff said:

On 12/12/2014 7:22 a.m., PStamler wrote:

A couple of years ago, I spent a year taking MIDI and sequencing
classes as part of getting my Master's degree (at 63!). I discovered
several things:

You could have done a masters degree in Mac instead !


geoff

And you point is?

Tom

[Tom Evans]

On 2014-12-11 10:22:54 -0800, PStamler said:

I think Mike Rivers nailed an essential question: what kind of music do
you want to compose? What's right for symphonic-style music wouldn't be
right for World Beat, and vice versa.

I want to make a wide gamut of genres: pop, new wave, coutnry,
ambient, smooth jazz, rock, disco, rap, reggae, trance, maybe some
songs with African or orchestral elements, etcetera.

The first decent song I composed, I was trying to compose a disco song,
but it turned out to be country! I never expected that! Recently, I
was struggling with a compostion that sounded kind of new wave/smooth
jazz/ambient, but then I added a track that had a reggae flavour, so I
had to "Save As" to try work on both sounds as separate songs. So I
never know what genres my songs will end up when I begin.

Your first question was about the software, and there I can give you a
straight answer: Reaper probably gives the biggest bang for the buck.
However, you need to realize that you'll probably need to buy sample
libraries, over and above the sounds bundled with sequencing software,
which are usually kind of generic. And as I said before, you'll
probably have to pay some good money for those libraries, because they
cost a lot to produce. You'll also need to spend a good deal of time
listening to whatever library you buy, so you know the sounds well
enough on a gut level to use them in your compositions. There's no
shortcut that'll let you skip that, unfortunately, any more than you
can skip the process of learning to use your DAW. We haven't got an
"efficient" way to download knowledge into a user's brain directly; we
humans learn by listening and trying things. And playing with the
equipment when no one's around.

A couple of years ago, I spent a year taking MIDI and sequencing
classes as part of getting my Master's degree (at 63!). I discovered
several things:

1. I loved it.

2. It took a *lot* of time -- I'd go to the school's MIDI lab as a
reward to myself, and I'd look up and it was 1 a.m.. The number of
things to tweak ate up a whole lot of time. Fortunately, because of
item 1., I was more than happy to spend the time.

3. It ain't cheap. Luckily, Reaper is relatively affordable, but my
experience of DAW programs in general is that the samples bundled with
them are kind of generic, and as somebody said, they're mostly oriented
to contemporary pop music. Since I was trying to do other things, I was
kind of limited by that. If I was going to get serious about this, I'd
have to spend the bucks for a much more powerful computer than I have,
a bunch more hardware, and some seriously expensive sample libraries.
I'm sorry, but getting into music in any kind of serious way is going
to cost; have you priced a pro-level bassoon lately? Anyway, I realized
that, though I loved doing this, I didn't have the money to do it
right, or even close. If I ever win the lottery, though, look out.

Tom, I don't know if this helps answer your question, and I suspect the
answer will be disappointing in parts. But that's the best info I can
give you right now -- there ain't no cheap or efficient road to
beautiful sounds, but if you get on a road anyway, you'll probably have
a lot of fun on it.

Peace,
Paul

Thanks, Paul.

Peace and joyful sounds to you as well.

Tom

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 12/17/2014 9:34 PM, Tom Evans wrote:
The first decent song I composed, I was trying to compose a disco song,
but it turned out to be country! I never expected that! Recently, I
was struggling with a compostion that sounded kind of new wave/smooth
jazz/ambient, but then I added a track that had a reggae flavour, so I
had to "Save As" to try work on both sounds as separate songs. So I
never know what genres my songs will end up when I begin.

This is not good for a professional song writer. You should say "Today
I'm going to write a country song" and then do it. If you don't have a
plan you won't know when you're finished.

There's nothing wrong with playing around with sounds and melodies, and
maybe even words. You have all the tools to do that right now. What
could you do better if you had access to any sounds you choose? Have you
ever considered using your tools to sketch out a song, and then when you
have a direction and a plan, get the help of a professional who can put
the final polish on it?

Basically that's what happens with any form of popular music. It starts
with an idea, the idea is developed into a song or a symphony or a film
score, and it gets worked over until it's either finished or scrapped.



--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without
a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be
operated without a passing knowledge of audio" - John Watkinson

Drop by http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com now and then

[geoff]

On 18/12/2014 3:34 p.m., Tom Evans wrote:


I want to make a wide gamut of genres: pop, new wave, coutnry,
ambient, smooth jazz, rock, disco, rap, reggae, trance, maybe some songs
with African or orchestral elements, etcetera.


Jeepers. That would make you one of the best composers and musicians in
the world ! But you did miss a few genres, presumably incorporated in
the "etc".

I'd be happy just to do one or two well.

geoff

[PStamler]

On Thursday, December 18, 2014 1:50:50 PM UTC-6, geoff wrote:
On 18/12/2014 3:34 p.m., Tom Evans wrote:


I want to make a wide gamut of genres: pop, new wave, coutnry,
ambient, smooth jazz, rock, disco, rap, reggae, trance, maybe some songs
with African or orchestral elements, etcetera.


Jeepers. That would make you one of the best composers and musicians in
the world ! But you did miss a few genres, presumably incorporated in
the "etc".

I'd be happy just to do one or two well.


By the way, Tom, you might want to look up the difference between New Wave and New Age. The former is Nick Lowe; the latter is wind chimes.

[Nil[_2_]]

On 06 Dec 2014, Tom Evans wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

What's the best digital music recording program that comes with
many terrific instrument sounds?

I'm thinking of buying Logic Pro 10, as I'm a Mac user and I'm
using Garageband and a controller to record songs on the Mac, but
I'm finding Garageband's instrument sounds are too limited.

The price of Logic seems to be good ($200) but I wonder if there's
a program that easeir to learn and use; Logic seems to be
complicated.

You don't say what kind of music you want to make. Orchestral?
Synthetic? Dance? Do you want to program it in MIDI and then drive
samples? Audio loops?

Todd Rundgren likes Propellerhead Reason as an all-in-one studio-type
environment that he can carry on a laptop.

https://www.propellerheads.se/products/reason/