Does anyone have any opinions on the sound quality of this player,
especially compared to Sony SACD players? How is the CD sound quality? Does
it upsample to 24 bit? And how does DVD-Audio fare?

"braxus" wrote in message news:j8eWb.846$_44.3684@attbi_s52...
Does anyone have any opinions on the sound quality of this player,
especially compared to Sony SACD players? How is the CD sound quality? Does
it upsample to 24 bit? And how does DVD-Audio fare?

I have the Denon DVD 2900. Using the built-in Burr-Brown decoders I
run EXT into the AMP and forgoe the traditional digital connection,
for all format types. As you probably know the 2900 has bass
management built in, it also has a delay adjustment, etc. No matter
what material I play, it all seems to sound quite good. I have Nena
Freelon on SACD, REM on DVD-A, some DTS audios, a bunch of CDs. So
far I have not experienced any technical issues (though I'm still
trying to figure out the Pure Direct mode) and I'm quite impressed
with the sound quality, though Michael Stipe sounds a bit out of tune
on some tracks (I'm fairly sure this is just the recording). As far
as upsampling to 24 bit, I am not aware of any such feature. Hope
that helps.

Thanks for the response. It seems like a fairly well built quality unit.
Denon always has been good in my book. Im wondering how its SACD playback
will fare with my low end SACD player I have from Sony -XE 670. That unit
has been well received for such a low end piece and it does sound rather
good for the price as well. Im hoping the Denon will top it, especially with
the ES based second generation Sony DSD decoder inside.

Denon and Sony. I operate a home based AV business, a downsized
remnant of a storefront that closed last year. At a customer's request I
asked a Denon dealer friend for a price on this player just this week and
was told to stay away from Denon DVD players because of reliability
problems. I don't know how seriously to take this warning, as he is not a
high volume dealer. Maybe a small number of bad experiences have soured him.
But I do recall that a few years ago I was a dealer for Denon car stereo
and experienced an extraordinarily high failure rate.
I do know from having sold Sony for 20 years ( this is not a plug; I am
no longer a Sony dealer) that Sony has very good reliability and the ES
series has a 5 year warranty.
..
Wylie Williams
The Speaker and Stereo Store

"braxus" wrote in message
news:j8eWb.846$_44.3684@attbi_s52...
Does anyone have any opinions on the sound quality of this player,
especially compared to Sony SACD players? How is the CD sound quality?
Does
it upsample to 24 bit? And how does DVD-Audio fare?

"Wylie Williams" wrote in message
...
Denon and Sony. I operate a home based AV business, a downsized
remnant of a storefront that closed last year. At a customer's request I
asked a Denon dealer friend for a price on this player just this week and
was told to stay away from Denon DVD players because of reliability
problems. I don't know how seriously to take this warning, as he is not a
high volume dealer. Maybe a small number of bad experiences have soured
him.


The Denon 2900 is built like a tank. I had more problems with weird disc
loading problems with my Sony 9000ES than I can shake a disc at. One of my
friends who also has the 9000ES just sent it in for service as well. I've
owned lot's of AV components in my day and though I'm not a service person I
can say that the 2900 build quality appears to be first rate and has
performed flawlessly for the 9 months or so that I've owned mine. For what
it's worth I also own a Denon CD player from 1991 that is still operating
flawlessly in my basement work area, and I have a well used Denon DAT
recorder from that same time period in my home theater setup that still
works without issue on the now rarer occasions that I fire it up.

"braxus" wrote in message ...
Thanks for the response. It seems like a fairly well built quality unit.
Denon always has been good in my book. Im wondering how its SACD playback
will fare with my low end SACD player I have from Sony -XE 670. That unit
has been well received for such a low end piece and it does sound rather
good for the price as well. Im hoping the Denon will top it, especially with
the ES based second generation Sony DSD decoder inside.

You probably have already found this link but just in case I will send
it to you and also for others who are looking for a more in depth
review of this player:

http://www.audioholics.com/productre...-reviewp1.html

I have no experience with the Sony XE 670. I guess that does not
suprise me that there is a Sony DSD decoder inside in the Denon 2900,
as I've been told that Sony/Philips has a monopoly on SACD. So, the
highly cost conscious would probably prefer a Sony or Philips SACD
player.

However, since we are talking about a universal player, consider that
plus the following:
1) The Audio D/A converters (for SACD/DVD-A the conversion is done in
the player unless you go with the Denon DVD 5900 + matching amp)
2) The Video De-interlacer (I assume you care about DVD movies as
well, even though this is audio we are discussing)
3) The size and weight/heft of the unit
4) Vibration resistance built into the chasis
5) Loads of features that you get, on screen setup menus, Pure Direct
Mode, etc.
6) The fact that it is a "known" product - i.e. it has been reviewed
by audio experts around the globe
7) Built and supported by a company that is actually older than Sony
(this is what I've been told by the salesman though I have not
verified this)
8) Expected usefull life-cycle of the unit (amortize your cost of the
years of service you expect to keep it)

Just some things to consider, though as with everything it probably
also depends on the other components in your system, and where you
desire to go with your system. Worst case scenario - buy it, test the
two side by side, if you don't like it then return it. Once you hear
the sound and see the picture of the 2900 you probably won't want
anything else, my opinion, this player pushes the limits of what the
digital medium can provide. Lots of luck.

Pat Wilson wrote:

"braxus" wrote in message ...

I have no experience with the Sony XE 670. I guess that does not
suprise me that there is a Sony DSD decoder inside in the Denon 2900,
as I've been told that Sony/Philips has a monopoly on SACD. So, the
highly cost conscious would probably prefer a Sony or Philips SACD
player.
The DSD encoder inside the DVD 2900 is a chip made by Texas instruments,
the DSD1790. I looked for it on the Texas instruments site and found
that they don't publish the info on it anymore, but they do have a 1791
chip. I assume that it must be very similar to the 1790. Read about the
1791s capabilities here;

http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folder...t/dsd1791.html

CD

"Charles Tomaras" wrote:

I also own a Denon CD player from 1991 that is still operating flawlessly in
my basement work area

Any chance that's a DCD-1560? I've owned one of those since 1991, and
it's gonna kill me to depart with it. Wonderful player -- big, heavy,
impressive in every way. But I just bought a DVD-2900 today, and it'll
replace my ready-steady (and still like-new) DCD-1560.

I decided to buy SACD playback last summer when the Dylan SACD box set was
announced. Only a universal play made sense, especially if you are
music-driven instead of hardware-driven. I wanted to be able to buy any
recording that appealed to me irrespective of format. The listened to a few
units and the Denon 2900 was overall the best so I bought it with 30 day
return privileges. It's still in my system.

The 2900 has functioned without flaw or error since last July. I have read
lots of coments online about this. Some people think it sounds icy, lacking
warmth. That's not my view. The Redbook playback is convincing and not
compromised compared to single-purpose Redbook players in favor with the
published reviewers. SACD is excellent at the price and DVD-A is nice to
have.

Note that I still play vinyl in my system and I use tube amplification.

Here's the beauty of a universal player: The Dylan SACD remaster set is
fantastically revealing. The DVD-A versions of Neil Young's "Harvest" and
The Eagles "Hotel California" are easily better than all prior versions. Yet
my entire Redbook CD collection sounds better than my prior player which
included a Bel Canto DAC. I just go to Tower and buy whatever appeals in any
disc format.

Many have commented that the Denon 2900 requires an extensive break-in
period, some claiming 200 hours before it will sound good. This is not true.
The 2900 isn't harsh, but it is a more analytical presentation than some
more romantically-voiced disc players. I did notice that after about 20
hours of use, my 2900 began to present a more spatial and stable soundstage
and the top end became more delicate. No qualitative change has registered
since that ~20 hour inflection.

Your specific question was about how the Denon compares to Sony SACD. For me
it is comparable to the Sony 999 and 9000 in SACD, better in Video, and
similar on Redbook, so the DVD-A capability is a worthwhile extra. Note that
buying a Denon was a departure for me. All my prior DVD-compatible players
have been Sony.

Phil

"braxus" wrote in message
news:j8eWb.846$_44.3684@attbi_s52...
Does anyone have any opinions on the sound quality of this player,
especially compared to Sony SACD players? How is the CD sound quality?
Does
it upsample to 24 bit? And how does DVD-Audio fare?

The DSD encoder inside the DVD 2900 is a chip made by Texas instruments,
the DSD1790. I looked for it on the Texas instruments site and found
that they don't publish the info on it anymore, but they do have a 1791
chip. I assume that it must be very similar to the 1790. Read about the
1791s capabilities here;

From that link it gives me the impression the chip converts DSD to 24 bit. I
thought Denon advertised DSD stayed in that native format when output. Also
didn't it say somewhere the player uses Sony's second generation DSD decoder
from the ES models?

"Long Rod Penetrator" wrote in message
...
"Charles Tomaras" wrote:

I also own a Denon CD player from 1991 that is still operating
flawlessly in
my basement work area

Any chance that's a DCD-1560? I've owned one of those since 1991, and
it's gonna kill me to depart with it. Wonderful player -- big, heavy,
impressive in every way. But I just bought a DVD-2900 today, and it'll
replace my ready-steady (and still like-new) DCD-1560.

Nope...it's just an old cheapie DCD-690 but it has performed well over the
years and still fires up when I'm working in the basement.

Your specific question was about how the Denon compares to Sony SACD. For
me
it is comparable to the Sony 999 and 9000 in SACD, better in Video, and
similar on Redbook, so the DVD-A capability is a worthwhile extra. Note
that
buying a Denon was a departure for me. All my prior DVD-compatible players
have been Sony.

My Sony player is the XE 670 which is a low end non ES player, but still
sounds decent for the price. I would assume from the models you listed
above, the Denon is more on par with the higher up ES SACD players which is
basically what I'm looking for. I want something that will be an improvement
over what I have now, plus add DVD-A/ DVD playback.

"Charles Tomaras" wrote in message news:2%gXb.311951$na.463372@attbi_s04...
"Wylie Williams" wrote in message
...
Denon and Sony. I operate a home based AV business, a downsized
remnant of a storefront that closed last year. At a customer's request I
asked a Denon dealer friend for a price on this player just this week and
was told to stay away from Denon DVD players because of reliability
problems. I don't know how seriously to take this warning, as he is not a
high volume dealer. Maybe a small number of bad experiences have soured
him.


The Denon 2900 is built like a tank. I had more problems with weird disc
loading problems with my Sony 9000ES than I can shake a disc at. One of my
friends who also has the 9000ES just sent it in for service as well. I've
owned lot's of AV components in my day and though I'm not a service person I
can say that the 2900 build quality appears to be first rate and has
performed flawlessly for the 9 months or so that I've owned mine. For what
it's worth I also own a Denon CD player from 1991 that is still operating
flawlessly in my basement work area, and I have a well used Denon DAT
recorder from that same time period in my home theater setup that still
works without issue on the now rarer occasions that I fire it up.

Glad to see the Denon folks come out! It sounds like Sony will drop
quite a few product models - like it's erased from history. How do
you get service and support? Their high end line is also quite
expensive.

Sony does make good products. Personally - I think my mom's next
audio system should definately be a Sony.

How's that?

"Pat Wilson" wrote in message
news:L4_Xb.43925$_44.42294@attbi_s52...
Glad to see the Denon folks come out! It sounds like Sony will drop
quite a few product models - like it's erased from history. How do
you get service and support? Their high end line is also quite
expensive.

I will also add that Denon's service and support has been great. I owned the
Denon AVR 5600 receiver a number of years ago and when DTS came on the scene
they offered an upgrade path and I was able to send mine in and have it
installed. I currently own the Denon AVR 5800 receiver and as time moved on
they offered a wonderful component level board and DAC upgrade that gave me
nearly all the functionality of the newer AVR 5803. I appreciate that fact
that they offer upgrades and first rate support both on the phone and via
the internet and that they maintain an informative web site with PDF tech
files and owners manuals for all of their current product line and a great
number of their discontinued models.

braxus wrote:

The DSD encoder inside the DVD 2900 is a chip made by Texas instruments,
the DSD1790. I looked for it on the Texas instruments site and found
that they don't publish the info on it anymore, but they do have a 1791
chip. I assume that it must be very similar to the 1790. Read about the
1791s capabilities here;


From that link it gives me the impression the chip converts DSD to 24 bit. I
thought Denon advertised DSD stayed in that native format when output. Also
didn't it say somewhere the player uses Sony's second generation DSD decoder
from the ES models?

I can't really answer that. I was just passing on info as to what's
"inside the box", so to speak.

CD

"braxus" wrote in message
news:bdZXb.43690$uV3.85451@attbi_s51...
The DSD encoder inside the DVD 2900 is a chip made by Texas instruments,
the DSD1790. I looked for it on the Texas instruments site and found
that they don't publish the info on it anymore, but they do have a 1791
chip. I assume that it must be very similar to the 1790. Read about the
1791s capabilities here;

From that link it gives me the impression the chip converts DSD to 24 bit.
I
thought Denon advertised DSD stayed in that native format when output.
Also
didn't it say somewhere the player uses Sony's second generation DSD
decoder
from the ES models?

This is from the description of the 2900 on Denon's site:

DENON designed, Burr-Brown 24-bit, 192-kHz DSD-1790 Audio DACs that decode
PCM and DSD signals discretely with no down-conversion of DSD

http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/products.asp?l=1&c=4

DSD signals discretely with no down-conversion of DSD

The no downconversion thing is one indication. Also it says in the pdf file
that it uses a dedicated DSD decoder for SACD playback. I remember reading
someone says it uses the second generation Sony chip for this. So I have no
clue how the other chip fits into all this.

Pat Wilson wrote:

Glad to see the Denon folks come out! It sounds like Sony will drop
quite a few product models - like it's erased from history. How do
you get service and support? Their high end line is also quite
expensive.

Denon now also owns Marantz. Their combined service wing is now called
D&M Service or something like that. So, as Sony shrinks in the audio
field, Denon looks to be expanding its presence.

-GP

Gene Poon wrote:

Pat Wilson wrote:

Glad to see the Denon folks come out! It sounds like Sony will drop
quite a few product models - like it's erased from history. How do
you get service and support? Their high end line is also quite
expensive.

Denon now also owns Marantz. Their combined service wing is now called
D&M Service or something like that. So, as Sony shrinks in the audio
field, Denon looks to be expanding its presence.

-GP

Technically, Denon owns the Marantz brand name. It's not as though Maramtz had
manufacturing facilities. Even when Phillips owned the Marantz brand their
receivers were often OEM. For example I once inspected Marantz and Carver
branded A/V receivers. One was European owned (Marantz) the other American yet,
other than exterior styling, color and button styles, they were both "Made in
Japan" and essentially identical.

FWIW.

"Nousaine" wrote in message
news:KgtYb.52328$_44.49244@attbi_s52...

Technically, Denon owns the Marantz brand name.

Nope. Both Denon and Marantz is now owned by DM Holdings.

DM Holdings also owns McIntosh, Replay TV, RIO and Escient.

http://www.dm-holdings.com/index.jsp

It's not as though Maramtz had
manufacturing facilities. Even when Phillips owned the Marantz brand

Philips still have stock in DM Holdings.

http://www.dm-holdings.com/about_corporate_data.jsp

Main shareholders:
Ripplewood Group
Koninklijke Philips Electronics N.V.
Deutsche Bank AG London 610(Trust account)
Goldman Sachs International (Trust account)
The Chase Manhattan Bank NA London S. L. Omnibus
Account (Trust account)
The Chase Manhattan Bank NA London (Trust account)
Baring Gandhi Limited (Trust account)
Morgan Stanley & Company International Limited (Trust account)
The Chase Manhattan Bank 380560 (Trust account)

their
receivers were often OEM. For example I once inspected Marantz and Carver
branded A/V receivers. One was European owned (Marantz) the other American
yet,
other than exterior styling, color and button styles, they were both "Made
in
Japan" and essentially identical.

Most likely Carver sourced their amplifier from Marantz. Harman Kardon was
another US "manufacturer" which sourced OEM products from the Marantz
line-up in the 90's.

Esp1

Gene Poon wrote in message news:UxjYb.48938$_44.47929@attbi_s52...
Pat Wilson wrote:

Glad to see the Denon folks come out! It sounds like Sony will drop
quite a few product models - like it's erased from history. How do
you get service and support? Their high end line is also quite
expensive.

Denon now also owns Marantz. Their combined service wing is now called
D&M Service or something like that. So, as Sony shrinks in the audio
field, Denon looks to be expanding its presence.

-GP

As a consumer, this is good news for me - considering my feeling was
that Marantz would be my other choice as a step up from Denon if at
some point I would feel that to be necessary (not that there's
anything wrong with Denon). Also, this makes me feel not so bad it's
like when you have the entry-level Mercedes you can be in the company
of the "big boys" without forking out all the dough!

Great info

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 22:58:02 GMT, (Pat
Wilson) wrote:

Also, this makes me feel not so bad it's
like when you have the entry-level Mercedes you can be in the company
of the "big boys" without forking out all the dough!

You can get even better quality than 'the big boys' who are now
relying only on their rapidly tarnishing reputation - buy any Audi!
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

"Espen Braathen" wrote:

Nousaine" wrote in message
news:KgtYb.52328$_44.49244@attbi_s52...

Technically, Denon owns the Marantz brand name.

Nope. Both Denon and Marantz is now owned by DM Holdings.

Thank you for the clarification :-)


DM Holdings also owns McIntosh, Replay TV, RIO and Escient.

So that's where MacIntosh wound up. Is that true for the autosound products as
well?


http://www.dm-holdings.com/index.jsp

It's not as though Maramtz had
manufacturing facilities. Even when Phillips owned the Marantz brand

Philips still have stock in DM Holdings.

http://www.dm-holdings.com/about_corporate_data.jsp

Main shareholders:
Ripplewood Group
Koninklijke Philips Electronics N.V.
Deutsche Bank AG London 610(Trust account)
Goldman Sachs International (Trust account)
The Chase Manhattan Bank NA London S. L. Omnibus
Account (Trust account)
The Chase Manhattan Bank NA London (Trust account)
Baring Gandhi Limited (Trust account)
Morgan Stanley & Company International Limited (Trust account)
The Chase Manhattan Bank 380560 (Trust account)

their
receivers were often OEM. For example I once inspected Marantz and Carver
branded A/V receivers. One was European owned (Marantz) the other American
yet,
other than exterior styling, color and button styles, they were both "Made
in
Japan" and essentially identical.

Most likely Carver sourced their amplifier from Marantz. Harman Kardon was
another US "manufacturer" which sourced OEM products from the Marantz
line-up in the 90's.

Esp1

That may have been true. Do you know if Philips/Marantz had/have manufacturing
facilities in Japan?

"Pat Wilson" wrote in message
news:_5SYb.340797$I06.3553523@attbi_s01...
Gene Poon wrote in message
news:UxjYb.48938$_44.47929@attbi_s52...
Pat Wilson wrote:

Glad to see the Denon folks come out! It sounds like Sony will drop
quite a few product models - like it's erased from history. How do
you get service and support? Their high end line is also quite
expensive.

Denon now also owns Marantz. Their combined service wing is now called
D&M Service or something like that. So, as Sony shrinks in the audio
field, Denon looks to be expanding its presence.

-GP

As a consumer, this is good news for me - considering my feeling was
that Marantz would be my other choice as a step up from Denon if at
some point I would feel that to be necessary (not that there's
anything wrong with Denon). Also, this makes me feel not so bad it's
like when you have the entry-level Mercedes you can be in the company
of the "big boys" without forking out all the dough!

Great info

Interesting that you feel Marantz is a step up from Denon. I've always
"perceived" Denon to be much further up the technology food chain with their
higher end offerings. It's amazing how marketing effects us all. A number of
years ago I shared a house in Seattle with a decidedly low tech guy from
Montana who after two years finally asked me why with my background as a
sound mixer I was using that "Dean-on" stuff. He'd never heard of it before
and I guess since they didn't have it at the Sears in Havre, MT it was junk.
He had one of those 70's Marantz receivers with the big flywheel tuning knob
he'd been using since junior high and swore by it because it was "made in
America."

"braxus" wrote in message news:bdZXb.43690$uV3.85451@attbi_s51...
The DSD encoder inside the DVD 2900 is a chip made by Texas instruments,
the DSD1790. I looked for it on the Texas instruments site and found
that they don't publish the info on it anymore, but they do have a 1791
chip. I assume that it must be very similar to the 1790. Read about the
1791s capabilities here;

From that link it gives me the impression the chip converts DSD to 24 bit. I
thought Denon advertised DSD stayed in that native format when output. Also
didn't it say somewhere the player uses Sony's second generation DSD decoder
from the ES models?

DSD1791 chip "Supports both DSD and PCM formats" (reference the
aforementioned link to PDF provided to Texas instruments web site).

To me, this means that the 24 bit does not necessarily refer to the
chip's handling of DSD - it is a multifunctioning device. Beyond
that, literature like this is making me feel like the monkeys in 2001!