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#41
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
John Williamson wrote: Eeyore wrote: There has been case law on this subject in all countries that support copyright and patent laws. The law varies from country to country. However since many Behringer products are slavish copies of their competition, I'd like to know how they can claim copyright for something that's not theirs in the first place ! As far as I know, the details vary, for instance what is fair use in one place is not necessarily fair use in another. The principle remains, though. If I design it, I own the copyright on the design, unless I assign it to another person or company. That's certainly true in the UK (Copyright Design and Patents Act) but may not be true elsewhere. If I patent it, I publish the design & principle so that others can use the design & principle under licence. Actually, the government publishes it as part of the 'deal' with you. As for Behringer stuff being copies of their competition, if it's patented, it can be licenced, otherwise, a "clean room" approach can be used. I'm not aware of them having any patents on the run-of-the-mill stuff I'm talking about. It's all likely to be 'prior art' anyway. Admittedly, Behringer may not do this... I would think, though, that just changing one component or dimension *may* result in the courts considering it to be a new design, hence a new copyright now exists for that new design. It depends how good your lawyers are. The UK law seems to exclude such a ruse. I forget how it's phrased but it seems to embody a good common sense approach and as a consequence a frivolous change wouldn't be an acceptable 'excuse' against breach of copyright. Most, if not all, IC maufacturers produce reference circuits which can be used by anyone using that IC, so if both places use the same IC, is it not possible they're both using the same reference design? Possibly even modified the same way, even if the design teams are working independently. You won't find that many of those in typical mixers for example today though. User interface is a different matter, in that you *could* claim there's only one logical way to lay out the controls. The fact it "just happens" to be the same way as Company X did it a while ago can be quite a field day for the lawyers. Didn't I read somewhere that Behringer were in trouble for copying stuff anyway? Again ? Not recently AFAIK. They got in trouble for breaking the US RF (FCC) emissions law though. Graham |
#42
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
Arny Krueger wrote: "WillStG" wrote Eeyore wrote: The fact they don't allow local service agents access to schematics.is very poor IMHO. It means you're automatically going to incur the considerable cost of return P&P to some distant place even before they can even look at it. Well if they provided schematics, someone might try to steal their designs.... The irony here is the EP-2500 power amp, which not only cribs the QSC RMX part-for-part, but also uses the same terminal numbers on the signal board. One of the Sekaku copies of the RMXs even used the same component references throughout. Graham |
#43
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
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#44
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
wrote in message
"John Williamson" wrote in message ... Eeyore wrote: There has been case law on this subject in all countries that support copyright and patent laws. The law varies from country to country. However since many Behringer products are slavish copies of their competition, I'd like to know how they can claim copyright for something that's not theirs in the first place ! As far as I know, the details vary, for instance what is fair use in one place is not necessarily fair use in another. Don't give any care to what G says Oh Boy, someone wound George up again. he has admitted to stealing qsc's mechanical designs No, but Behringer has come pretty darn close to doing that. and admitted to being party to studiomaster stealing phase linear designs No, but Behringer has pretty well done exactly that with the EP 2500 and the corresponding QSC RMX. So what? The QSC RMX is based on patented technology whose patents have run out. That means that the basic RMX circuit designs are in the public domain. That is how the patent system works - the guy with the patent gets exclusive rights for a certain number of years, and then the cat is out of the bag. |
#45
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. Well if they provided schematics, someone might try to steal their designs.... The irony here is the EP-2500 power amp, which not only cribs the QSC RMX part-for-part, but also uses the same terminal numbers on the signal board. Well you should at least be able to get a schematic for that one then :-) MrT. |
#46
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... Besides, with a schematic I could probably fix it inside 20-30 minutes which costs very little. Without a schematic, many could do it as well, depending on the actual fault. Have you even looked yet? MrT. |
#47
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... Thanks. I've spoken to them. They reckon £20-30 which doesn't totally surprise me but seems a lot for an op-amp replacement if that's all it is which I sort of suspect. Sounds cheap if it's a replacement SMT op-amp. How much do you charge per hour btw? Then there's the carriage either way on top. It makes an authorised repair look costly when you can buy the 2 way CX2310 (which is all that's needed) for £61.50 new. So buy a new CX2310 and quit whinging. YOU have a choice! MrT. |
#48
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
On Sep 26, 10:35 am, "Phil Allison" wrote:
"WillStG" wrote Well if they provided schematics, someone might try to steal their designs.... ** ROTFL !! Wot an imbecile. ....... Phil " Sarcasm is lost on you, Pinky... " g Will Miho NY TV/Audio Post/Music/Live Sound Guy "The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits |
#49
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Mr.T" wrote: "Eeyore" wrote Thanks. I've spoken to them. They reckon £20-30 which doesn't totally surprise me but seems a lot for an op-amp replacement if that's all it is which I sort of suspect. Sounds cheap if it's a replacement SMT op-amp. You think so ? Here's a typical Audio op-amp. Even at Farnell's usurous prices and one-off it's only £0.52 ! http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/Semiconduc...sp?sku=9593322 SMT pacakaging has nothing to do with increasing the price. The DIL version was 4p more in fact. How much do you charge per hour btw? Depends whom I'm charging ! Then there's the carriage either way on top. It makes an authorised repair look costly when you can buy the 2 way CX2310 (which is all that's needed) for £61.50 new. So buy a new CX2310 and quit whinging. YOU have a choice! It's not me who's doing the buying. Graham |
#50
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Mr.T" wrote: "Eeyore" wrote Besides, with a schematic I could probably fix it inside 20-30 minutes which costs very little. Without a schematic, many could do it as well, depending on the actual fault. Have you even looked yet? I can certainly do it as WELL. It'll probably take hours instead of a fraction of an hour though, which was my point. Graham |
#51
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. Well if they provided schematics, someone might try to steal their designs.... Seriously, the cheaper a product is, the less likely someone is going to build one from parts. The irony here is the EP-2500 power amp, which not only cribs the QSC RMX part-for-part, but also uses the same terminal numbers on the signal board. Well you should at least be able to get a schematic for that one then :-) Right! ;-) BTW, the EP 2500 is one of the few Behringer products for which a schematic has made its way to the public. |
#52
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... Have you even looked yet? I can certainly do it as WELL. It'll probably take hours instead of a fraction of an hour though, which was my point. Depends on the actual fault. Have you even looked yet? MrT. |
#53
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... Thanks. I've spoken to them. They reckon £20-30 which doesn't totally surprise me but seems a lot for an op-amp replacement if that's all it is which I sort of suspect. Sounds cheap if it's a replacement SMT op-amp. You think so ? Here's a typical Audio op-amp. Even at Farnell's usurous prices and one-off it's only £0.52 ! http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/Semiconduc...RUMENTS/TL072A CD/displayProduct.jsp?sku=9593322 SMT pacakaging has nothing to do with increasing the price. The DIL version was 4p more in fact. So YOU work for nothing then? Hard to find others willing to do the same though. MrT. |
#54
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. BTW, the EP 2500 is one of the few Behringer products for which a schematic has made its way to the public. Do you have a link? I'd be interested in taking a look myself. MrT. |
#55
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message u... "Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. BTW, the EP 2500 is one of the few Behringer products for which a schematic has made its way to the public. Do you have a link? I'd be interested in taking a look myself. BTW, I should have made clear I know the QSC schematics are at : http://www.qscaudio.com/support/tech...rt/schems1.htm MrT. |
#56
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message ... "Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. Well if they provided schematics, someone might try to steal their designs.... The irony here is the EP-2500 power amp, which not only cribs the QSC RMX part-for-part, but also uses the same terminal numbers on the signal board. except in the power supply, protection and output circuts,oh and the physical chassis is diffrent as well so if you are comfortable in saying its exactly the same except for the power supply, protection, output section and physical layout/chassis then I would have to agree with you george Well you should at least be able to get a schematic for that one then :-) MrT. |
#57
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message ... "Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message u... "Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. BTW, the EP 2500 is one of the few Behringer products for which a schematic has made its way to the public. Do you have a link? I'd be interested in taking a look myself. BTW, I should have made clear I know the QSC schematics are at : http://www.qscaudio.com/support/tech...rt/schems1.htm MrT. and those shpould point out the diffrences in the powersuppy, protection,output circut designs and layouts unfortunatly some people feel that haveing a diffrent power section, layout,protection,and output section not to mention diffrent physical chasssis is not enough to qualify as a diffrent amp george |
#58
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message u... "Eeyore" wrote in message ... Have you even looked yet? I can certainly do it as WELL. It'll probably take hours instead of a fraction of an hour though, which was my point. Depends on the actual fault. Have you even looked yet? MrT. no graham just want to bitch because behringer doesn't trust hacks like him in thier gear they perfer to have control over the customer service end of thioer business and insure all repairs are quality as well as incorporating any repair into a upgrade of the unit face it graham your simply not qualified to repair gear if you want to get qualified apply to behringer to become a authorized service center or shut the **** up |
#59
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Mr.T" wrote: "Eeyore" wrote Have you even looked yet? I can certainly do it as WELL. It'll probably take hours instead of a fraction of an hour though, which was my point. Depends on the actual fault. Have you even looked yet? I don't have it here yet. Simply 'looking' at it won't be any help. I know very well how Behringer assemble their 1u rack kit though (I've seen a number of other bits of their gear) and I know it's going to be far from straightforward to work on without a schematic. Graham |
#60
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Mr.T" wrote: "Eeyore" wrote Thanks. I've spoken to them. They reckon £20-30 which doesn't totally surprise me but seems a lot for an op-amp replacement if that's all it is which I sort of suspect. Sounds cheap if it's a replacement SMT op-amp. You think so ? Here's a typical Audio op-amp. Even at Farnell's usurous prices and one-off it's only £0.52 ! http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/Semiconduc...RUMENTS/TL072A CD/displayProduct.jsp?sku=9593322 SMT pacakaging has nothing to do with increasing the price. The DIL version was 4p more in fact. So YOU work for nothing then? Pardon ? If you're just going to make stupid comments, don't expect any further response. Graham |
#61
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
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#62
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
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#64
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
Eeyore wrote:
Phildo wrote: Eeyore wrote Thread title is self-explanatory. This is rich considering you were the one who illegally posted copyrighted Behringer schematics online. THEY ARE NOT COPYRIGHT you illiterate MORON ! Actually they are. You posted them illegally. Maybe those lawyers you promised so faithfully to set on George and myself are too busy tied up with defending you on that one which is why we haven't heard from them? Phildo |
#65
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
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#66
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"John Williamson" wrote in message ... Eeyore wrote: There has been case law on this subject in all countries that support copyright and patent laws. The law varies from country to country. And in the UK (which is where you posted from despite the fact you seem to live in cloud-cuckoo land) it is illegal. However since many Behringer products are slavish copies of their competition, I'd like to know how they can claim copyright for something that's not theirs in the first place ! Which is why Behringer are paying £millions in settlements for all the designs they copied - NOT !!!! Didn't I read somewhere that Behringer were in trouble for copying stuff anyway? Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Eeyesore is just ****ed because he used to steal designs for studiomaster then pass them off as his own. Studiomaster went bust because they couldn't compete with Behringer leading to him being put out of a job. Now he has a psychotic Behringer fixation following his very public nervous breakdown. Phildo |
#67
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. BTW, the EP 2500 is one of the few Behringer products for which a schematic has made its way to the public. Yeah, because Eyesore illegally posted it online as part of his anti-Behringer vendetta. Phildo |
#68
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message u... Depends on the actual fault. Have you even looked yet? He claims to be a god in audio design yet cannot even fix something as simple as that. Do you honestly think the legendary studiomater designer would lower himself to look at Behringer gear? He's only making a fuss because he hates Behringer after they put him out of a job. Phildo |
#69
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message u... "Eeyore" wrote in message ... So YOU work for nothing then? He has to. He lost his job because of Behringer hence his constant bitching about them. Phildo |
#70
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
wrote in message ... and those shpould point out the diffrences in the powersuppy, protection,output circut designs and layouts unfortunatly some people feel that haveing a diffrent power section, layout,protection,and output section not to mention diffrent physical chasssis is not enough to qualify as a diffrent amp Well probably not enough to stop you using most of the QSC schematic anyway. And QSC does far more for their customers than Behringer in that regard. MrT. |
#71
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
wrote in message ... no graham just want to bitch because behringer doesn't trust hacks like him in thier gear they perfer to have control over the customer service end of thioer business and insure all repairs are quality as well as incorporating any repair into a upgrade of the unit face it graham your simply not qualified to repair gear if you want to get qualified apply to behringer to become a authorized service center or shut the **** up Whilst being a big supporter of Behringers value for money, I simply can't agree with you on this. There are only two reasons for with holding service information. 1. To force you to pay more for repairs from a small number of "authorised agents". 2. To "encourage" you to throw it away and buy a new one. It simply doesn't wash to say that the cheapest gear on the market needs the highest standards of service support! If someone attempts a repair, and cocks it up, option 2 is still available :-) MrT. |
#72
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... Simply 'looking' at it won't be any help. I know very well how Behringer assemble their 1u rack kit though (I've seen a number of other bits of their gear) and I know it's going to be far from straightforward to work on without a schematic. You *know* no such thing. Faulty switches, loose wires etc. are usually easy to fix without a schematic, as are many other obvious things. But hey, if you'd rather make dozens of posts rather than simply pull it apart and look, I sure don't care. MrT. |
#73
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... Thanks. I've spoken to them. They reckon £20-30 which doesn't totally surprise me but seems a lot for an op-amp replacement if that's all it is which I sort of suspect. Sounds cheap if it's a replacement SMT op-amp. You think so ? Here's a typical Audio op-amp. Even at Farnell's usurous prices and one-off it's only £0.52 ! http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/Semiconduc...RUMENTS/TL072A CD/displayProduct.jsp?sku=9593322 SMT pacakaging has nothing to do with increasing the price. The DIL version was 4p more in fact. So YOU work for nothing then? Pardon ? If you're just going to make stupid comments, don't expect any further response. *You're* the one making stupid comments about the cost of repairs WITHOUT including labour charges! Obviously YOU don't employ anyone to run a business. MrT. |
#74
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
Mr.T wrote:
wrote in message ... no graham just want to bitch because behringer doesn't trust hacks like him in thier gear they perfer to have control over the customer service end of thioer business and insure all repairs are quality as well as incorporating any repair into a upgrade of the unit face it graham your simply not qualified to repair gear if you want to get qualified apply to behringer to become a authorized service center or shut the **** up Whilst being a big supporter of Behringers value for money, I simply can't agree with you on this. There are only two reasons for with holding service information. 1. To force you to pay more for repairs from a small number of "authorised agents". 2. To "encourage" you to throw it away and buy a new one. It simply doesn't wash to say that the cheapest gear on the market needs the highest standards of service support! If someone attempts a repair, and cocks it up, option 2 is still available :-) MrT. I'm not sure that Behringer is the cheapest anymore, Alto is giving them a run for their money :-) |
#75
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Eeyore" wrote in
message "Mr.T" wrote: "Eeyore" wrote Thanks. I've spoken to them. They reckon £20-30 which doesn't totally surprise me but seems a lot for an op-amp replacement if that's all it is which I sort of suspect. Sounds cheap if it's a replacement SMT op-amp. You think so ? Here's a typical Audio op-amp. Even at Farnell's usurous prices and one-off it's only £0.52 ! http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/Semiconduc...sp?sku=9593322 SMT pacakaging has nothing to do with increasing the price. The DIL version was 4p more in fact. How much do you charge per hour btw? Depends whom I'm charging ! The point is that replacing SMT parts can be a very non-trivial task, compared to replacing an ordinary leaded part. |
#76
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Eeyore" wrote in
message wrote: face it graham your simply not qualified to repair gear Methinks that George is projecting his personal technical inadequacies, again. And YOUR 'qualifications' are ????? I was *designing*, never mind repairing, pro-audio 35 years ago. Give George some slack - he was probably doing what he does best, which seems to be over-consuming and over-the-top complaining, 35 years ago. ;-) |
#77
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Mr.T" wrote: wrote in message no graham just want to bitch because behringer doesn't trust hacks like him in thier gear they perfer to have control over the customer service end of thioer business and insure all repairs are quality as well as incorporating any repair into a upgrade of the unit face it graham your simply not qualified to repair gear if you want to get qualified apply to behringer to become a authorized service center or shut the **** up Whilst being a big supporter of Behringers value for money, I simply can't agree with you on this. There are only two reasons for with holding service information. 1. To force you to pay more for repairs from a small number of "authorised agents". One per entire country it seems, meaning most repairs will attract huge P&P costs. 2. To "encourage" you to throw it away and buy a new one. Exactly. I couldn't put it better myself. It simply doesn't wash to say that the cheapest gear on the market needs the highest standards of service support! It's the kind of thing a crackhead would say. If someone attempts a repair, and cocks it up, option 2 is still available :-) Always. Graham |
#78
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Mr.T" wrote: "Eeyore" wrote in message Simply 'looking' at it won't be any help. I know very well how Behringer assemble their 1u rack kit though (I've seen a number of other bits of their gear) and I know it's going to be far from straightforward to work on without a schematic. You *know* no such thing. Yes I do. Faulty switches, loose wires etc. are usually easy to fix without a schematic, as are many other obvious things. The problem is not a loose wire or a faulty switch. Graham |
#79
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Mr.T" wrote: *You're* the one making stupid comments about the cost of repairs WITHOUT including labour charges! I have not made any such comment. Stop misrepresenting what I said. Graham |
#80
Posted to alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech
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Does anyone have a schematic for a Behringer CX3400
"Romeo Rondeau" wrote in
message t Mr.T wrote: wrote in message ... no graham just want to bitch because behringer doesn't trust hacks like him in thier gear they perfer to have control over the customer service end of thioer business and insure all repairs are quality as well as incorporating any repair into a upgrade of the unit face it graham your simply not qualified to repair gear if you want to get qualified apply to behringer to become a authorized service center or shut the **** up Whilst being a big supporter of Behringers value for money, I simply can't agree with you on this. There are only two reasons for with holding service information. 1. To force you to pay more for repairs from a small number of "authorised agents". 2. To "encourage" you to throw it away and buy a new one. It simply doesn't wash to say that the cheapest gear on the market needs the highest standards of service support! If someone attempts a repair, and cocks it up, option 2 is still available :-) MrT. I'm not sure that Behringer is the cheapest anymore, Alto is giving them a run for their money :-) I'm not sure that Behringer has ever been the cheapest. For example, compare an ADA 8000 to a SM Pro audio PR8MKII w/ PR8MIIA. They are both basically 8-channel mic preamps with ADAT interfaces, but the construction and reliability of the ADA8000 is IME worlds ahead. |
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