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#1
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A couple of Home recording questions
Hi,
Sort of new to home recording. Attempting to record the guitar. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Basically, I have a cornford mk-50h stack (stacked amp), which I use a THD Hotplate (power attenuator, basically quitens the stack down by sitting inbetween the amp head and the speaker cabinet). The THD hotplate has a line out which I used to record. Recording wise I am using a Midiman M-audiophile 2696 and cakewalk sonar 3 (p1.7 128 RAM - upgrading to a p3.0 528 RAM soon) Problem is, when I record clean guitar it sounds ok but when I attempt to record distorted guitar, it just sounds bad and fuzzy (not malfunction bad, but just low quality almost like it is a real cheap distortion effect- which its not!). I'm not overloading the soundcard inputs or anything like that, and there is certainly nothing wrong with the equipment nor is it cheap/dodgey equipment. I'm guessing its because of the whole using line out thing. So would buying a microphone be a good idea(not certain, but I heard the shure 57 was good to start with), and hopefully I can then get the distortion sounding on the recording as it should? - or is it another general problem with my setup? Also, when I do record something, I always get my vu (i think its called, the sound input level meter) db level in the green range (occasionally it might dip into yellow, but only just). However, whenever I play it back it is ever so quite. Much much quiter then any music I may have on my system. Is there something I am doing wrong? All levels are set to normal in the recording software, i.e. its mixer is not quitening it (unless it does it by default). Also, a little on the pc, p3.0 528 RAM is that good enough to record to a descent quality (i.e. low latency etc, 41 up to 91k 24bit), or would 1 gig of RAM be ideal. Sorry for the long post and loads of questions, been playing for 10 years and am becoming more and more enthusiastic towards home recording but I cant seem to get the recording to sound good - I realise I wont be able to get the polished result of what is on a cd, but I though I may get closish to that. I have heard clips people have home recorded that sound good/proper, but none of them were mine! Also generally speaking, how would a pc setup compare to proper recording deck/machine? Any help would be most appreciated and thanks in advance for any help, Jon. |
#2
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Jon wrote:
Hi, Sort of new to home recording. Attempting to record the guitar. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Basically, I have a cornford mk-50h stack (stacked amp), which I use a THD Hotplate (power attenuator, basically quitens the stack down by sitting inbetween the amp head and the speaker cabinet). The THD hotplate has a line out which I used to record. Recording wise I am using a Midiman M-audiophile 2696 and cakewalk sonar 3 (p1.7 128 RAM - upgrading to a p3.0 528 RAM soon) Problem is, when I record clean guitar it sounds ok but when I attempt to record distorted guitar, it just sounds bad and fuzzy (not malfunction bad, but just low quality almost like it is a real cheap distortion effect- which its not!). I'm not overloading the soundcard inputs or anything like that, and there is certainly nothing wrong with the equipment nor is it cheap/dodgey equipment. I'm guessing its because of the whole using line out thing. Yeah you need a Cabinet Simulator....the Palmer PDI-09 would work great...stick it on the line out from the Hot Plate, about $120.00....or a H&K Red Box. I have some mp3s of just that on my website if interested....and of course a mic would work just fine g Me at: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/andymostmusic.htm |
#3
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Jon wrote:
Hi, Sort of new to home recording. Attempting to record the guitar. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Basically, I have a cornford mk-50h stack (stacked amp), which I use a THD Hotplate (power attenuator, basically quitens the stack down by sitting inbetween the amp head and the speaker cabinet). The THD hotplate has a line out which I used to record. Recording wise I am using a Midiman M-audiophile 2696 and cakewalk sonar 3 (p1.7 128 RAM - upgrading to a p3.0 528 RAM soon) Problem is, when I record clean guitar it sounds ok but when I attempt to record distorted guitar, it just sounds bad and fuzzy (not malfunction bad, but just low quality almost like it is a real cheap distortion effect- which its not!). I'm not overloading the soundcard inputs or anything like that, and there is certainly nothing wrong with the equipment nor is it cheap/dodgey equipment. I'm guessing its because of the whole using line out thing. Yeah you need a Cabinet Simulator....the Palmer PDI-09 would work great...stick it on the line out from the Hot Plate, about $120.00....or a H&K Red Box. I have some mp3s of just that on my website if interested....and of course a mic would work just fine g Me at: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/andymostmusic.htm |
#4
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Mmm_moo_cows wrote:
Sort of new to home recording. Attempting to record the guitar. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Basically, I have a cornford mk-50h stack (stacked amp), which I use a THD Hotplate (power attenuator, basically quitens the stack down by sitting inbetween the amp head and the speaker cabinet). The THD hotplate has a line out which I used to record. Recording wise I am using a Midiman M-audiophile 2696 and cakewalk sonar 3 (p1.7 128 RAM - upgrading to a p3.0 528 RAM soon) Problem is, when I record clean guitar it sounds ok but when I attempt to record distorted guitar, it just sounds bad and fuzzy (not malfunction bad, but just low quality almost like it is a real cheap distortion effect- which its not!). I'm not overloading the soundcard inputs or anything like that, and there is certainly nothing wrong with the equipment nor is it cheap/dodgey equipment. I'm guessing its because of the whole using line out thing. The M-Audio audiophile 2496 is not a standard audio production audio interface. It only supports -10 and so-called consumer levels. If you don't understand this terminology, check the RAP FAQ at http://www.recaudiopro.net/ . There is some chance that a source with standard +4 levels, will overload the inputs of an AP2496 interface for this reason, and might be the cause of what you observe. A passive mic attenuator could reduce the signal from a line level source to something that would work well with your AP2496 interface. You need about 15 dB attenuation, if there is a problem of this kind. Shure, Audio Technica, and Rapco have appropriate attenuators in their product catalogs. So would buying a microphone be a good idea(not certain, but I heard the shure 57 was good to start with), and hopefully I can then get the distortion sounding on the recording as it should? - or is it another general problem with my setup? There is also a chance that your speakers further modify the distorted sounds in ways that you prefer. Then, recording the acoustical output of the speakers with a mic is the way to go. To record with a microphone, you will need both a microphone and a microphone preamp, as the Audiophile 2496 lacks mic level inputs. Shure SM57s aren't my favorite mic, for this application I would pick a MXL603 or perhaps a Behringer ECM8000. An example of a low cost mic preamp could be a Rolls MP13 or one of the Behringer small mixers which start out around $40. Also, when I do record something, I always get my vu (i think its called, the sound input level meter) db level in the green range (occasionally it might dip into yellow, but only just). However, whenever I play it back it is ever so quite. Much much quiter then any music I may have on my system. Is there something I am doing wrong? All levels are set to normal in the recording software, i.e. its mixer is not quitening it (unless it does it by default). If you're recording with anything like decent audio recording software, you should be able to adjust the level of what you record, after you record it. If you don't have software that can do this, you can download Audacity, which is freeware. Also, a little on the pc, p3.0 528 RAM is that good enough to record to a descent quality (i.e. low latency etc, 41 up to 91k 24bit), or would 1 gig of RAM be ideal. For what you're doing, your PC is likely to already be overkill. 256 megs of RAM and 1 GHz would be more than enough. There are probably people posting here who did lots of work with 64 megs and 100 MHz, or less. Also generally speaking, how would a pc setup compare to proper recording deck/machine? A PC setup is a proper recording deck/machine if it has a good audio interface, appropriate software and a knowlegeable experienced operator.. While your AP2496 has some weaknesses vis-a-vis standard audio production levels, it can be made to work quite well. Lots of people report excellent results with it. |
#5
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Mmm_moo_cows wrote:
Sort of new to home recording. Attempting to record the guitar. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Basically, I have a cornford mk-50h stack (stacked amp), which I use a THD Hotplate (power attenuator, basically quitens the stack down by sitting inbetween the amp head and the speaker cabinet). The THD hotplate has a line out which I used to record. Recording wise I am using a Midiman M-audiophile 2696 and cakewalk sonar 3 (p1.7 128 RAM - upgrading to a p3.0 528 RAM soon) Problem is, when I record clean guitar it sounds ok but when I attempt to record distorted guitar, it just sounds bad and fuzzy (not malfunction bad, but just low quality almost like it is a real cheap distortion effect- which its not!). I'm not overloading the soundcard inputs or anything like that, and there is certainly nothing wrong with the equipment nor is it cheap/dodgey equipment. I'm guessing its because of the whole using line out thing. The M-Audio audiophile 2496 is not a standard audio production audio interface. It only supports -10 and so-called consumer levels. If you don't understand this terminology, check the RAP FAQ at http://www.recaudiopro.net/ . There is some chance that a source with standard +4 levels, will overload the inputs of an AP2496 interface for this reason, and might be the cause of what you observe. A passive mic attenuator could reduce the signal from a line level source to something that would work well with your AP2496 interface. You need about 15 dB attenuation, if there is a problem of this kind. Shure, Audio Technica, and Rapco have appropriate attenuators in their product catalogs. So would buying a microphone be a good idea(not certain, but I heard the shure 57 was good to start with), and hopefully I can then get the distortion sounding on the recording as it should? - or is it another general problem with my setup? There is also a chance that your speakers further modify the distorted sounds in ways that you prefer. Then, recording the acoustical output of the speakers with a mic is the way to go. To record with a microphone, you will need both a microphone and a microphone preamp, as the Audiophile 2496 lacks mic level inputs. Shure SM57s aren't my favorite mic, for this application I would pick a MXL603 or perhaps a Behringer ECM8000. An example of a low cost mic preamp could be a Rolls MP13 or one of the Behringer small mixers which start out around $40. Also, when I do record something, I always get my vu (i think its called, the sound input level meter) db level in the green range (occasionally it might dip into yellow, but only just). However, whenever I play it back it is ever so quite. Much much quiter then any music I may have on my system. Is there something I am doing wrong? All levels are set to normal in the recording software, i.e. its mixer is not quitening it (unless it does it by default). If you're recording with anything like decent audio recording software, you should be able to adjust the level of what you record, after you record it. If you don't have software that can do this, you can download Audacity, which is freeware. Also, a little on the pc, p3.0 528 RAM is that good enough to record to a descent quality (i.e. low latency etc, 41 up to 91k 24bit), or would 1 gig of RAM be ideal. For what you're doing, your PC is likely to already be overkill. 256 megs of RAM and 1 GHz would be more than enough. There are probably people posting here who did lots of work with 64 megs and 100 MHz, or less. Also generally speaking, how would a pc setup compare to proper recording deck/machine? A PC setup is a proper recording deck/machine if it has a good audio interface, appropriate software and a knowlegeable experienced operator.. While your AP2496 has some weaknesses vis-a-vis standard audio production levels, it can be made to work quite well. Lots of people report excellent results with it. |
#6
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What's probably going on is that most guitar speakers have no high end to
speak of; they roll off someplace between 5kHz and 10kHz. By taking the line out, you're hearing all the stuff the speakers filer out, and on most guitars that sounds really cheesy. Mondoslug's recommendation of a cabinet simulator is one possibility, and a microphone is another, provided you have a microphone preamp or mixing board you can run it through. The SM57 is a classic microphone used to record electric guitar, and at the price there's really no competition. Peace, Paul |
#7
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What's probably going on is that most guitar speakers have no high end to
speak of; they roll off someplace between 5kHz and 10kHz. By taking the line out, you're hearing all the stuff the speakers filer out, and on most guitars that sounds really cheesy. Mondoslug's recommendation of a cabinet simulator is one possibility, and a microphone is another, provided you have a microphone preamp or mixing board you can run it through. The SM57 is a classic microphone used to record electric guitar, and at the price there's really no competition. Peace, Paul |
#8
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http://www.palmerdirect.com/products.html Their PDI 09 and PGA 04 are said
to be "the best" http://www.hughes-and-kettner.com/st.../specials.html The Red Box Pro is said to be a good one. http://www.peavey.com/products/shop_...ode/30/edi.cfm A pretty affordable unit http://www.behringer.com/02_products...GI100&lang=eng A very affordable unit. "Mmm_moo_cows" wrote in message m... Hi, Sort of new to home recording. Attempting to record the guitar. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Basically, I have a cornford mk-50h stack (stacked amp), which I use a THD Hotplate (power attenuator, basically quitens the stack down by sitting inbetween the amp head and the speaker cabinet). The THD hotplate has a line out which I used to record. Recording wise I am using a Midiman M-audiophile 2696 and cakewalk sonar 3 (p1.7 128 RAM - upgrading to a p3.0 528 RAM soon) Problem is, when I record clean guitar it sounds ok but when I attempt to record distorted guitar, it just sounds bad and fuzzy (not malfunction bad, but just low quality almost like it is a real cheap distortion effect- which its not!). I'm not overloading the soundcard inputs or anything like that, and there is certainly nothing wrong with the equipment nor is it cheap/dodgey equipment. I'm guessing its because of the whole using line out thing. So would buying a microphone be a good idea(not certain, but I heard the shure 57 was good to start with), and hopefully I can then get the distortion sounding on the recording as it should? - or is it another general problem with my setup? Also, when I do record something, I always get my vu (i think its called, the sound input level meter) db level in the green range (occasionally it might dip into yellow, but only just). However, whenever I play it back it is ever so quite. Much much quiter then any music I may have on my system. Is there something I am doing wrong? All levels are set to normal in the recording software, i.e. its mixer is not quitening it (unless it does it by default). Also, a little on the pc, p3.0 528 RAM is that good enough to record to a descent quality (i.e. low latency etc, 41 up to 91k 24bit), or would 1 gig of RAM be ideal. Sorry for the long post and loads of questions, been playing for 10 years and am becoming more and more enthusiastic towards home recording but I cant seem to get the recording to sound good - I realise I wont be able to get the polished result of what is on a cd, but I though I may get closish to that. I have heard clips people have home recorded that sound good/proper, but none of them were mine! Also generally speaking, how would a pc setup compare to proper recording deck/machine? Any help would be most appreciated and thanks in advance for any help, Jon. |
#9
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http://www.palmerdirect.com/products.html Their PDI 09 and PGA 04 are said
to be "the best" http://www.hughes-and-kettner.com/st.../specials.html The Red Box Pro is said to be a good one. http://www.peavey.com/products/shop_...ode/30/edi.cfm A pretty affordable unit http://www.behringer.com/02_products...GI100&lang=eng A very affordable unit. "Mmm_moo_cows" wrote in message m... Hi, Sort of new to home recording. Attempting to record the guitar. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Basically, I have a cornford mk-50h stack (stacked amp), which I use a THD Hotplate (power attenuator, basically quitens the stack down by sitting inbetween the amp head and the speaker cabinet). The THD hotplate has a line out which I used to record. Recording wise I am using a Midiman M-audiophile 2696 and cakewalk sonar 3 (p1.7 128 RAM - upgrading to a p3.0 528 RAM soon) Problem is, when I record clean guitar it sounds ok but when I attempt to record distorted guitar, it just sounds bad and fuzzy (not malfunction bad, but just low quality almost like it is a real cheap distortion effect- which its not!). I'm not overloading the soundcard inputs or anything like that, and there is certainly nothing wrong with the equipment nor is it cheap/dodgey equipment. I'm guessing its because of the whole using line out thing. So would buying a microphone be a good idea(not certain, but I heard the shure 57 was good to start with), and hopefully I can then get the distortion sounding on the recording as it should? - or is it another general problem with my setup? Also, when I do record something, I always get my vu (i think its called, the sound input level meter) db level in the green range (occasionally it might dip into yellow, but only just). However, whenever I play it back it is ever so quite. Much much quiter then any music I may have on my system. Is there something I am doing wrong? All levels are set to normal in the recording software, i.e. its mixer is not quitening it (unless it does it by default). Also, a little on the pc, p3.0 528 RAM is that good enough to record to a descent quality (i.e. low latency etc, 41 up to 91k 24bit), or would 1 gig of RAM be ideal. Sorry for the long post and loads of questions, been playing for 10 years and am becoming more and more enthusiastic towards home recording but I cant seem to get the recording to sound good - I realise I wont be able to get the polished result of what is on a cd, but I though I may get closish to that. I have heard clips people have home recorded that sound good/proper, but none of them were mine! Also generally speaking, how would a pc setup compare to proper recording deck/machine? Any help would be most appreciated and thanks in advance for any help, Jon. |
#10
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So would buying a microphone be a good idea(not certain, but I heard the shure 57 was good to start with), and hopefully I can then get the distortion sounding on the recording as it should? - or is it another general problem with my setup? We don't know. But you can find out. Record something else into your system - maybe a simple link from a CD player. Does it sound right? If so, your system is OK. Also, when I do record something, I always get my vu (i think its called, the sound input level meter) db level in the green range (occasionally it might dip into yellow, but only just). However, whenever I play it back it is ever so quite. Much much quiter then any music I may have on my system. Is there something I am doing wrong? All levels are set to normal in the recording software, i.e. its mixer is not quitening it (unless it does it by default). Is this the meter in the M-Audio Control Panel? You don't have to worry about recording to the maximum possible level, particularly if you're recording at 24-bit. There's plenty of scope for turning it up at a later stage. But maybe you can feed the soundcard a bit more level? Your soundcard is probably the most-recommended model in its class, and is capable of excellent results. But its input sensitivity is unusual - it isn't really either +4 or -10 (the two standard levels). No matter. No serious recordist expects to do without a level control between source and sound-card. The Audiophile just brings this need directly to your attention :-) Also, a little on the pc, p3.0 528 RAM is that good enough to record to a descent quality (i.e. low latency etc, 41 up to 91k 24bit), or would 1 gig of RAM be ideal. Once a basic sufficiency of computer power is exceeded (and yours well exceeds it) the only factors affecting latency are the soundcard and its drivers. Your card will easily run at single-figure latency. You'll push it down to about 5 ms under Windows 9.x, half that under Windows XP. But don't. If you intend to record plug-in midi softsynths in real time you'll want to set around 10ms. If you don't - what harm will 20 or 30ms of latency do you? Set it high, let your system have an easy ride :-) 24-bit? Yes. If only because it allows you to be sloppy with recording levels (but always err under, not over) Higher than 44.1KHz? I see little point. CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect |
#11
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So would buying a microphone be a good idea(not certain, but I heard the shure 57 was good to start with), and hopefully I can then get the distortion sounding on the recording as it should? - or is it another general problem with my setup? We don't know. But you can find out. Record something else into your system - maybe a simple link from a CD player. Does it sound right? If so, your system is OK. Also, when I do record something, I always get my vu (i think its called, the sound input level meter) db level in the green range (occasionally it might dip into yellow, but only just). However, whenever I play it back it is ever so quite. Much much quiter then any music I may have on my system. Is there something I am doing wrong? All levels are set to normal in the recording software, i.e. its mixer is not quitening it (unless it does it by default). Is this the meter in the M-Audio Control Panel? You don't have to worry about recording to the maximum possible level, particularly if you're recording at 24-bit. There's plenty of scope for turning it up at a later stage. But maybe you can feed the soundcard a bit more level? Your soundcard is probably the most-recommended model in its class, and is capable of excellent results. But its input sensitivity is unusual - it isn't really either +4 or -10 (the two standard levels). No matter. No serious recordist expects to do without a level control between source and sound-card. The Audiophile just brings this need directly to your attention :-) Also, a little on the pc, p3.0 528 RAM is that good enough to record to a descent quality (i.e. low latency etc, 41 up to 91k 24bit), or would 1 gig of RAM be ideal. Once a basic sufficiency of computer power is exceeded (and yours well exceeds it) the only factors affecting latency are the soundcard and its drivers. Your card will easily run at single-figure latency. You'll push it down to about 5 ms under Windows 9.x, half that under Windows XP. But don't. If you intend to record plug-in midi softsynths in real time you'll want to set around 10ms. If you don't - what harm will 20 or 30ms of latency do you? Set it high, let your system have an easy ride :-) 24-bit? Yes. If only because it allows you to be sloppy with recording levels (but always err under, not over) Higher than 44.1KHz? I see little point. CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect |
#12
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"Mmm_moo_cows" wrote in message
m... Problem is, when I record clean guitar it sounds ok but when I attempt to record distorted guitar, it just sounds bad and fuzzy Yeah, I like my Hot Plate a lot, but the line out just sounds bad. If you want to stick with the Hot Plate, you're best off miking the cabinet. An SM57 is a good start. You'll need a decent mike preamp to raise the mike level up to line level (you haven't said anything about your computer interface, so I assume you have a line-in only). If you want advice on the rest of your system, you'll need to give more info on your setup, plus your recording goals (e.g. number of tracks, how many tracks to record at once, etc.). HTH, Dave |
#13
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"Mmm_moo_cows" wrote in message
m... Problem is, when I record clean guitar it sounds ok but when I attempt to record distorted guitar, it just sounds bad and fuzzy Yeah, I like my Hot Plate a lot, but the line out just sounds bad. If you want to stick with the Hot Plate, you're best off miking the cabinet. An SM57 is a good start. You'll need a decent mike preamp to raise the mike level up to line level (you haven't said anything about your computer interface, so I assume you have a line-in only). If you want advice on the rest of your system, you'll need to give more info on your setup, plus your recording goals (e.g. number of tracks, how many tracks to record at once, etc.). HTH, Dave |
#14
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Hi,
Thanks for all your help, getting quite interested in this now. I looked at some of the information about cab simulators, but I think i'll mike it up since the cab adds alot to the overall sound produced. Learnt alot, never knew about mike preamps etc but its all good now and thanks for the latency/bit rate advice. Cheers everyone, Jon |
#15
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Hi,
Thanks for all your help, getting quite interested in this now. I looked at some of the information about cab simulators, but I think i'll mike it up since the cab adds alot to the overall sound produced. Learnt alot, never knew about mike preamps etc but its all good now and thanks for the latency/bit rate advice. Cheers everyone, Jon |
#16
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Jon wrote:
Hi, Thanks for all your help, getting quite interested in this now. I looked at some of the information about cab simulators, but I think i'll mike it up since the cab adds alot to the overall sound produced. Learnt alot, never knew about mike preamps etc but its all good now and thanks for the latency/bit rate advice. Cheers everyone, Jon Mic wins no doubt...still if you get some funds having a cab simulator DI (ie:Palmer)laying around is a nice luxury to have if the need arises. Me at: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/andymostmusic.htm |
#17
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Jon wrote:
Hi, Thanks for all your help, getting quite interested in this now. I looked at some of the information about cab simulators, but I think i'll mike it up since the cab adds alot to the overall sound produced. Learnt alot, never knew about mike preamps etc but its all good now and thanks for the latency/bit rate advice. Cheers everyone, Jon Mic wins no doubt...still if you get some funds having a cab simulator DI (ie:Palmer)laying around is a nice luxury to have if the need arises. Me at: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/andymostmusic.htm |
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