From: jak163
Date: 11/27/2004 8:34 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

On 28 Nov 2004 00:36:57 GMT, (S888Wheel) wrote:

I did allow for the possibility that some are driven by ignorance
and some by fear.

It _is_ ignorance. It's failure to know something, like believing the
earth is flat or the sun revolves around the earth. It's just plain
wrong.

I'm sure it is with some. It isn't with the ones I have talked to. They choose
to ignore the obvious evidence that conflicts with their belief. They also
don't seem to get the simple logical arguments that can be made based on the
simple evidence they do accept. That just isn't very rational IMO. If you want
to see what I mean ask any creationist the geology behind the formation of all
the mountains after the great flood. Sit back and watch the stupidity flow.

George M. Middius said:

Here's another one: Supposedly Adam and Eve were the first humans on
earth. And yet when their children grew up and moved out, they got
married. Where did those other people that Cain and Abel married come
from? Why wasn't their miraculous creation chronicled in The Holy Booke?

You simply don't have the faith.
Repent, Sinner!

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

From: George M. Middius
Date: 11/28/2004 8:40 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:



S888Wheel said:

It _is_ ignorance. It's failure to know something, like believing the
earth is flat or the sun revolves around the earth. It's just plain
wrong.

I'm sure it is with some. It isn't with the ones I have talked to. They
choose
to ignore the obvious evidence that conflicts with their belief. They also

I'm sure we've all met people like this. I've heard it said that since
Darwin's theory of natural selection hasn't been proven conclusively, that
means the *fact* of evolution hasn't been proven.

don't seem to get the simple logical arguments that can be made based on
the
simple evidence they do accept. That just isn't very rational IMO. If you
want
to see what I mean ask any creationist the geology behind the formation of
all
the mountains after the great flood. Sit back and watch the stupidity flow.

Here's another one: Supposedly Adam and Eve were the first humans on
earth. And yet when their children grew up and moved out, they got
married. Where did those other people that Cain and Abel married come
from? Why wasn't their miraculous creation chronicled in The Holy Booke?


There really are so many basic simple problems with the Genesis story. Ask a
creationist about the human gene pool and how it can possibly jive with the
flood myth. But then why stop at the human gene pool? Lets look at the gene
pool of every known species. Imagine for a moment that the ark had all three
thousand known species of hawk wasp. Did they bring supply of tarantulas? It is
really quite comical when you break it down. Image maintaining all the
ecosystems needed to sustain every species of life on earth in one ****ing
boat. Sorry, ya got to be pretty stupid or in total denial to accept that
nonsense. I haven't even talked about the huge problems with Genesis and
empirical astronomical evidence. see if you can get a creationist to
acknowledge that the galaxy is close to a 100 thousand light years from end to
end. Then ask them how this is compatable with a six thousand year old
universe. Think about it. Creationism isn't just in conflict with evolution. It
is complete conflict with just about all science.

George M. Middius said:

Here's another one: Supposedly Adam and Eve were the first humans on
earth. And yet when their children grew up and moved out, they got
married. Where did those other people that Cain and Abel married come
from? Why wasn't their miraculous creation chronicled in The Holy Booke?

You simply don't have the faith.
Repent, Sinner!

I will if Wheeler does.

Wheeler? Wasn't that Scott Wittevrongel?
too lazy to look it up, sorry

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

Believing in God, Allah or whatever deity scares me.
Religion changes people into racists and intolerant dogmatics.


Really..so all religious people throughout the ages were racists and intolerant
dogmatics? Interesting that you would know this.

Economical problems, many people losing their job, danger of terrorist
attacks...........enough for most to look for relief into religion.
This can be observed any time a war is on, or economics go bad.

This can be observed any time ..if you cared to look.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

The problem with religion, at least with Christianity, is that the bible can
be interpreted to support any cause of conviction one may hold. they you
can go and say that your actions are OK because tehy are backed up by
scripture.

This may be true but I ahve never personally seen the bible applied this
way..usually a misunderstanding of scripture is assumed as opposed to divine
guidance.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

Of course there are exceptions.
I was generalizing, which is in general (....) a bad thing.
However, the majority of Christians (or Moslims, whatever) are just a
mindless herd, following "leaders" that take advantage of their
position.

Since you cannot know the majority of Christians this statement is obviously
your opinion..just checking.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

And to think Mikey was taking issue with Michael Moore's claim that Americans
are stupid. Clearly most are.

Clearly huh..and how's that work?


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

It isn't about
religion it is about rational thought. Clearly rational thought is painfully
lacking in America. That should be cause for concern. It also seems to
confirm
that which you were so upset about. Looks like Michael Moore pegged our
nation's people. Why were you so upset about it?


If rational thought is what you are subscribing to than you know that
generalizations are basically worthless to any conversation..so when you say
"Micheal Moore..our nations people"..it is an obvious generalization and
therefore probably a flawed premise..a valid opinion..maybe..but opinion
nonetheless..if we are to aspire to rational thought. It has to work both ways
or it doesn't work at all.




John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

I think he's a prefect example of a lack of rational thought.

He's a perfect example of how living in a free country can allow him to be
opinionated and ****ed off that not everyone will agree with him. I jsut don;t
get all the popularity of the film..poorly done at best..IMO.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

I think you think in very very simplistic terms. The world is far too
complicated for your ideas. Just my opinion.


Yeah...we can see how much better the goverments of the world function the more
complex they get.


I think you are shooting from the hip. There are very specific beliefs about
these issues held by various groups.

You just generalized about a whole bunch of stuff and now say this?

Every poll I have seen has
returned the alarming results that in fact the majority of Americans are
stupid
enough, ignorant enough or scared enough to believe in the primative
superstition that the bible is literally true. I find that fact quite
unnerving.

The tough part is to reengineer the worlds thinking by assuming everyone we
don't agree with is stupid.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

No wonder you think there's nothing wrong with Arny. You see what you want
to
see.


There is no bigger example of seeing what you want to see than F-911...MM asks
questions that there are no answers to and then sneeringly insults those who
don't agree with him.."I wonder what was going through the President's
mind?...what crap.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

"jak163" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 03:45:23 GMT, "Michael McKelvy"
wrote:

I still think that it wouldn't take much to change that perception but
that
the economy need some more freedom to innovate.

Cut taxes and eliminate public education, and we'll have that 65
percent up to 99 percent in no time!

I doubt it.

We can also cut the Dept. of Energy, Labor, Agriculture, and the FCC.
As Everett Dirkson once said: "A billion here, a billion there, pretty soon
we're talking real money."

Can you guys trim your posts?


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

Who said anything about everyone? If you can make the case that rational
thought is missing in most actors you'd have a pretty trong case against
actors
being inteligent on the whole. I think the case against creationists is
pretty
clear cut. Don't you?


Problem is that people deal with people one on one...having an overall
prejudice is not beneficial in that scenario.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

Do you really believe anyone can be well informed and inteligent and
believe in creationism unless they feel the fear of their belief system being
underminded? I think it is highly unlikely.


It may very well be..but how does this further any conversation about anything.
It's a free country..we vote..we move..we tolerate..how else is it supposed to
work?


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

I guess you missed the discussion amongst some creationists that time
standards are not meaningful when seeking to find the origins of man. (A
day today was not a day during creation).

If we are dealing with the universe, black holes, varying dimensions.etc..who
the heck knows? I don't ..and neither does anyone else..really. If some being
did all this do you think it would be easy for humans to understand? This is
the stuff we judge peole on?


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

"S888Wheel" wrote in message
...
From: "Michael McKelvy"
Date: 11/26/2004 7:55 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: t


"S888Wheel" wrote in message
...
From: "Michael McKelvy"
Date: 11/26/2004 5:15 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: et


"S888Wheel" wrote in message
...
From: "Michael McKelvy"
Date: 11/26/2004 1:18 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: et


"S888Wheel" wrote in message
...
From: "Trevor Wilson"
Date: 11/25/2004 12:38 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

I know it is not scientific, nor even independently verified as
accurate.
Nevertheless, it provides an interesting starting point for
discussion.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in657083.shtml


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au


And to think Mikey was taking issue with Michael Moore's claim that
Americans
are stupid. Clearly most are.

If being religious makes you stupid, then clearly most of the world
is.

Most of the populations of most of the first world countries do not
suffer
from
this mass stupidity over evolution and science in general.

Can you cite any evidence for this belief?

I'm sure I could with a little search on line. I'm not going to bother
unless
to tell me you think that Europe has the same phenomenon of a majority
of
people believing in creationism.

Most of Europe is Christian, is
it not?

Not fundimentalists who don't believe life evolved. That is actually
quite
rare
in Europe.

Do they not believe in creationism?

Very very few.

The rest of the world is
pretty much either Muslim, Budist, or Hindu, all of which have some sort
of
creation myth do they not?

Myth yes. And there are fundimentalist Muslems and Jews that also take
their
respective bibles literally. They are also a minority amoung Jews and
Muslems.
Just as fundimentalist Christians are amoung first world Christians,
excluding
the U.S.



It isn't about
religion it is about rational thought.

For me religion is the opposite of rational thought.

You paint religion with a rather big brush. What, for instance, do you
find
irrational about Deism? You know, the common religious belief held by
our
forefathers who formed this nation.

I think they had the right idea but the wrong premise. IMO it is right and
proper that the nature of man be taken into account when devising laws and
governement. Linking that nature to a supreme being is where the error comes
in.

Clearly rational thought is painfully
lacking in America.

Depends on what you're talking about. If you mean as it pertains to
allowing people to live their lives and make a living, I'd say we're
doing
well.

Are you not following the thread? I was clearly talking about the
rational
thought that would preclude the belief in such primative superstitions
as
the
literal belief in Genesis.

I think that if one tends to be irrational in one area, they may be in
others as well.

Regarding political discourse, not so much.

I wasn't talking about that either.

I assumed you were making a connection between religious belief and
politics.


That should be cause for concern. It also seems to confirm
that which you were so upset about. Looks like Michael Moore pegged
our
nation's people. Why were you so upset about it?

I'm not upset by that in and of itself. It's the sneering, smarmy, way
he
looks down his nose at those who don't buy his jaundiced views.

You seemed to be particularly bothered by his comment that Americans are
stupid. Now you are not upset by it? Hmmm.

I wasn't upset so much by the fact that he said it, but by the fact that
people were denying he said it.

Funny, that never happened.

Better check back on that one.

It's also
his dishonesty. If what he believes is true he should be able to make
his
case much more honestly, with out the editing. I've not read any
objective
critique of his work that finds his methods to honest or even making a
pretense at objectivity.

Then why make such an issue over his assertion that Americans are
stupid?

Because it doesn't hold that people who don't agree with Michale Moore are
stupid, in fact the opposite would tend to be more correct IMO.

It
looks pretty accurate at this point.

Not to me.

It's still not something I entirely believe, but again, it was that it was
being denied that he said it.

It wasn't being denied.

It was by a few.

I think he's a prefect example of a lack of rational thought.


Funny, you get that a lot too.

Proving only that we don't agree.

I think the kind of freedom I enorse and the amount of government suport
it
would remove frightens people. I also think that there ought not to be
contradictions. If it's wrong for the average Joe to take something he
didn't earn by force, it can't be OK for the government to essentially do
the same thing.

I think you think in very very simplistic terms. The world is far too
complicated for your ideas. Just my opinion.

I believe it has been made that way by irrational thought.


Opinions abound. IMO one has to be quite
ignorant, quite stupid or quite scared to belive in creationism.

My own experience is that people tend to mix a bit of Darwin with a bit of
God had a hand in it also.

That is quite different unless you are talking about those who believe
complexity is proof of god the designer. I see nothing irrational about
believing a god set it all in motion.

The idea of no God directing things is hard for
people who've been fed a diet of some sort of religion all their lives.
They think there's a God of some sort who created everything but it was
longer ago than the creationists want them to believe, so therefore belief
in evolution is OK too.

I think you are shooting from the hip. There are very specific beliefs
about
these issues held by various groups.

I doubt very seriously that there are many hard
core creationists.

Then you are ignoring the data presented at the begining of this
threadalong
with a **** load of other easily accessable data. Every poll I have seen
has
returned the alarming results that in fact the majority of Americans are
stupid
enough, ignorant enough or scared enough to believe in the primative
superstition that the bible is literally true. I find that fact quite
unnerving.

And yet we clearly are going back as a nation. I doubt the numbers would
have
been anything like this in the early sixties when science was still seen
as a
good thing.

What do you suppose changed that perception?


I don't know. It seemed to happen away from the spot light.


I think part of what happened was publicized science started to focus on
telling us that all we do is destroying the planet..all based on computer
models that we have no way of knowing are correct. In the sixties we went to
the moon..something positive to everyone.

John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

Here's another one: Supposedly Adam and Eve were the first humans on
earth. And yet when their children grew up and moved out, they got
married. Where did those other people that Cain and Abel married come
from? Why wasn't their miraculous creation chronicled in The Holy Booke?


I would assume if you believed the story..they married brothers and
sisters.nephews and nieces..etc...since Adam was told to live more than 900
years.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

I know how they react. One only has to look at the creationist propaganda to
know how they react. You will get a near memorized reading of that propaganda
should you ever challenge the beliefs of a creationist. I've been down that
road many times.


You seem way into this for someone who is not a creationist.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

"George M. Middius" wrote in message
...


More mindless yapping.

Do you really believe anyone can be well informed and inteligent and
believe in creationism unless they feel the fear of their belief system
being underminded?

Some people would pass judgement on something as trivial as the ability
to
spell intelligent but I think that would be wrong.

With this thought, you damn yourself with your own whining, you make a
stupid argument, and you ignore the larger point. All in a single
sentence. This is exactly what Krooger does when he plies his odious
"debating trade". This is why you are so closely identified with
Kroopologism.

Just keep hating George, its all you have.

ScottW

"Paul Dormer" wrote in message
news
"Blind Joni" emitted :

Do you really believe anyone can be well informed and intelligent and
believe in creationism unless they feel the fear of their belief
system being undermined? I think it is highly unlikely.

It may very well be..but how does this further any conversation
about anything. It's a free country..we vote..we move..we
tolerate..how else is it supposed to work?

Religion creates division. It's a central cause of many wars and
conflicts. Why should it be tolerated?

Commerce and trade creates division. It's a central cause of many wars and
conflicts. Why should it be tolerated?

Exchange and comparison of ideas and philosophies creates division. It's a
central cause of many wars and
conflicts. Why should it be tolerated?

Politics creates division. It's a central cause of many wars and conflicts.
Why should it be tolerated?

John Chiara said:

Here's another one: Supposedly Adam and Eve were the first humans on
earth. And yet when their children grew up and moved out, they got
married. Where did those other people that Cain and Abel married come
from? Why wasn't their miraculous creation chronicled in The Holy Booke?


I would assume if you believed the story..they married brothers and
sisters.nephews and nieces..etc...since Adam was told to live more than 900
years.

Yet after Cain kills Abel and is cast out of Eden, he complains to God that
everyone who sees him will want to kill him. Uh, at that point in time, there
are three people on the entire planet. Who is "everyone"?

Boon

"Marc Phillips" wrote in message

John Chiara said:

Here's another one: Supposedly Adam and Eve were the first humans on
earth. And yet when their children grew up and moved out, they got
married. Where did those other people that Cain and Abel married
come from? Why wasn't their miraculous creation chronicled in The
Holy Booke?


I would assume if you believed the story..they married brothers and
sisters.nephews and nieces..etc...since Adam was told to live more
than 900 years.

Yet after Cain kills Abel and is cast out of Eden, he complains to
God that everyone who sees him will want to kill him. Uh, at that
point in time, there are three people on the entire planet.

OK, we've got a theological expert named Marc Phillips that believes that if
someone is not specifically mentioned in the Bible, they dont' exist.

Who is "everyone"?

All the people who were there, but not named specifically. You know, like
the jillions of people who were killed by Noah's flood. The people who built
the Tower of Babel. etc., etc.

"George M. Middius" wrote in message

Paul Dormer said:

It may very well be..but how does this further any conversation
about anything. It's a free country..we vote..we move..we
tolerate..how else is it supposed to work?

Religion creates division. It's a central cause of many wars and
conflicts. Why should it be tolerated?

Not to mention that "leaders" in many religions put their stamp of
approval on stupidity, intolerance, and other bad traits.

Not to mention that "leaders" of many sovereign states put their stamp of
approval on stupidity, intolerance, and other bad traits.

State sovereignty is now, and has been for centuries, much more about
political power than about purity of faith.

Therefore following Middius *logic*, down with sovereign states!

Trevor Wilson wrote


I know it is not scientific, nor even independently verified as accurate.
Nevertheless, it provides an interesting starting point for discussion.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in657083.shtml


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



Our rational thoughts is constrained to our own experience and to those
authority we consider qualified to provide facts. I wonder what happen to
the guy who invented electricity. I won't be surprise if they consider him
a big joke. It was beyond their experience of truth.

That should be ...discovered electricity.... sorry.

(Blind Joni) said:

Of course there are exceptions.
I was generalizing, which is in general (....) a bad thing.
However, the majority of Christians (or Moslims, whatever) are just a
mindless herd, following "leaders" that take advantage of their
position.

Since you cannot know the majority of Christians this statement is obviously
your opinion..just checking.

If they had any intelligence, they wouldn't "believe" in something
like God or Allah.

Just checking.

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message


What good did religion in general bring to the world?

Since the word religion is so general, it need not have brought anything in
particular.

"Arny Krueger" said:

Yet after Cain kills Abel and is cast out of Eden, he complains to
God that everyone who sees him will want to kill him. Uh, at that
point in time, there are three people on the entire planet.

OK, we've got a theological expert named Marc Phillips that believes that if
someone is not specifically mentioned in the Bible, they dont' exist.

Who is "everyone"?

All the people who were there, but not named specifically. You know, like
the jillions of people who were killed by Noah's flood. The people who built
the Tower of Babel. etc., etc.

Prove it.
Use any method at your disposal.

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

From: (Blind Joni)
Date: 11/28/2004 3:50 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

And to think Mikey was taking issue with Michael Moore's claim that
Americans
are stupid. Clearly most are.

Clearly huh..and how's that work?

Maybe if you read the reason given instead of editing out of your response.....





John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

From: (Blind Joni)
Date: 11/28/2004 4:02 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

I think you think in very very simplistic terms. The world is far too
complicated for your ideas. Just my opinion.


Yeah...we can see how much better the goverments of the world function the
more
complex they get.

Actually if you knew much about history or even current politics you actually
could see how complex systems of government like ous work much better than
simple oines like monarchies and totalitarian governments.




I think you are shooting from the hip. There are very specific beliefs about
these issues held by various groups.

You just generalized about a whole bunch of stuff and now say this?

What did I genralize about? Are you unaware of the specific beliefs of
creationists?



Every poll I have seen has
returned the alarming results that in fact the majority of Americans are
stupid
enough, ignorant enough or scared enough to believe in the primative
superstition that the bible is literally true. I find that fact quite
unnerving.

The tough part is to reengineer the worlds thinking by assuming everyone we
don't agree with is stupid.

No such assumption was made. For someone who seems to object to generalizations
and assumptions you are mighty guilty of making them.




John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

From: (Blind Joni)
Date: 11/28/2004 4:12 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

I guess you missed the discussion amongst some creationists that time
standards are not meaningful when seeking to find the origins of man. (A
day today was not a day during creation).

If we are dealing with the universe, black holes, varying dimensions.etc..who
the heck knows?

Jee try to kep track of what is being talked about before jumping in. We are
talking about creationism and the rationality of believing in it.

I don't ..and neither does anyone else..really.

What exactly are you babbling about? Do you think science has made no
discoveries about the nature of the universe? Do you believe everything that
you don't understand or know about is universally incomprehensable?

If some being
did all this do you think it would be easy for humans to understand?

Why would it be hard? Please offer a logical argument that a supreme being
would choose to make a universe that is inherently impossible for it's
inhabitants to understand.

This is
the stuff we judge peole on?

No. Your inability to grasp the content of the thread OTOH....




John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

From: (Blind Joni)
Date: 11/28/2004 3:53 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

It isn't about
religion it is about rational thought. Clearly rational thought is painfully
lacking in America. That should be cause for concern. It also seems to
confirm
that which you were so upset about. Looks like Michael Moore pegged our
nation's people. Why were you so upset about it?


If rational thought is what you are subscribing to than you know that
generalizations are basically worthless to any conversation.

Wrong. But please feel free to prove that generalizations are inherently
irrational. By the way, did you realize you used a generalization to attack the
use of generalizations? You ought to pay attention to what you are saying.

..so when you say
"Micheal Moore..our nations people"..it is an obvious generalization

Michael Moore is a generalization? So far you are doing as well as a monkey on
a typewriter.

and
therefore probably a flawed premise.

Prove that a premise is flawed if it is not specific.

..a valid opinion..maybe..but opinion
nonetheless.

Where did you get the idea that my opinion stated as opinion was not an
opinion?

..if we are to aspire to rational thought. It has to work both
ways
or it doesn't work at all.

Rational thought and generalizations are not mutually exclusive. Of course all
you used in your argument was generalizations so we could take your word for it
and ignore your argument.






John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

"Arny Krueger" said:

What good did religion in general bring to the world?

Since the word religion is so general, it need not have brought anything in
particular.

It's much easier to sum up the bad that religion brought upon us,
don't you think? ;-)

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" said:

What good did religion in general bring to the world?

Since the word religion is so general, it need not have brought
anything in particular.

It's much easier to sum up the bad that religion brought upon us,
don't you think? ;-)

Only if one has a phobia about it.

Even according to their own teachings, religions are at least half a
creation of man. They are just another kind of flawed human institutions.

Sander deWaal wrote:


"Arny Krueger" said:

What good did religion in general bring to the world?

Since the word religion is so general, it need not have brought anything in
particular.

It's much easier to sum up the bad that religion brought upon us,
don't you think? ;-)

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "



While religion has definitely served a therapeutic purpose for many people
during times of suffering, it's also true that a huge number of armed conflicts
have been fought because of religious differences and prejudices. In addition,
many hate groups have been formed over the years to discriminate against the
people of one religion or another. Also, as we are currently seeing in the
midEast, religious figures not infrequently call for the murder and/or
annihilation of people of of other faiths. Additionally, generation of
religious and ethnic hatreds can often be directly traced to various religious
sermons and/or publications.



Bruce J. Richman

"Arny Krueger" said:

They (religions) are just another kind of flawed human institutions.

Well, today must be a special day.
I agree with you (again!).

What must become of this world? ;-)

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

Sander deWaal wrote:
"Arny Krueger" said:


What good did religion in general bring to the world?


Since the word religion is so general, it need not have brought anything in
particular.


It's much easier to sum up the bad that religion brought upon us,
don't you think? ;-)

This sounds like an HiFi thread started by a guy which has never
listened anything else but his walkman. :-)