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#1
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Miking a concertina...
Hi,
Has anyone had any experience miking a concertina? What mike should I use (up to ukŁ250) and would it be better to use two mikes: one for each end or one better quality mike used somewhat centrally. Any ideas, suggestions etc would be appreciated. Regards, Paul |
#2
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Miking a concertina...
If the concertina player doesn't move around too much, I will use a
pair of SM57 or MD421 or just about any other instrument mic, a bit less tham 1m apart, both pointing toward the musician. This setup has a problem with its stereo imaging. Picture this: Inst. / \ A source toward the right will be louder in the left microphone, because it is directional -- similar to an XY setup. However, it will arrive at the right-hand microphone first. Thus the directional cues provided by intensity and arrival-time will be in conflict, and you get muddle. The great concertina virtuoso Alistair Anderson prefers a pair of KM-84s or similar microphones, spaced about 10" apart, pointed straight ahead. You do get a lot of movement in the stereo image if the player moves around, though. I find an XY pair works well, but it's difficult to persuade the performer that it will. Peace, Paul |
#3
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Miking a concertina...
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#4
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Miking a concertina...
"Mike Turk" wrote in message ble.rogers.com...
"Eberhard Sengpiel" wrote in message ... Paul Beard home wrote Has anyone had any experience miking a concertina? What mike should I use (up to ukŁ250) and would it be better to use two mikes: one for each end or one better quality mike used somewhat centrally. Hi Paul, each musical instrument and voice needs a special built microphone - you think. As you use your especial built pea soup spoon, when you want to eat that soup. Right? Cheers ebs Ha Ha! I like this answer! Although the spoon manufacturers and spoon salesmen want you to believe that you *need* that special pea soup spoon. -mike i don't. i really don't think the analogy holds up. the spoon doesn't need to, and furthermore is incapable of, flattering or altering the taste of the soup. if it is altering the taste of the soup, something is seriously wrong. the spoon, unlike the mic, delivers the actual source material, unaltered (aside from, perhaps, some cooling), to the mouth of the eater. it is not capturing some vital element (the taste?) of the soup and changing it from one form of existence to another. not to mention the subjective and artistic nature of the craft of capturing a sound vs. the non-subjective utilitarian task of shoveling food into one's mouth. i can see the artistic elements of preparing food and even in appreciating fine cooking...but choice of spoon certainly allows for far less variation, experimentation or consequence to the results of it's intended purpose than microphone selection or placement does to it's respective purpose. but hey, one mic's as good as another right? they all sound the same...all those specs are marketing hype...the differences in sound you hear when you use different models? ...placebo! soup's on! |
#5
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Miking a concertina...
Hi there. I grew up with my Mom being Lorraine Hayden, Chicago's 47th St Clubs
Concertina star.. About 14 concertinas, a fiddle electric bass and drumset all told. Most of the instruments had mics inside but they were horrible! For making the albums, I liked a 57 at a distace of around six feet dead on center. This was a while ago, tho, if they were till recording, I guess a 421 is a great bet. It seems like the frequencies are like a harmonica, with a bit more bass. Good Luck Jer SUNdog Audio Chicago |
#6
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Miking a concertina...
For what it's worth: I recently recorded a live theater performance that involved
one of the dancers playing a concertina. I didn't do the micing myself, I just took a split from the FOH engineer. He did it with a pair of wireless lavs, one taped to each end of the instrument. As you probably already know, sound comes from both ends -- they said half the notes come from one end and half from the other. Philisophically, I would think there's no way around the idea that you need to mic it so that it sounds like one instrument. I would think this would involve a *slight* stereo image, but not a wide one. I summed mine pretty much to mono, and had not problems, but I think that's because with the mic capsules taped so close to the sound source there was no chance of phase cancellation. Perhaps an XY or OTRF is a good place to start. If you choose to space wide, obey the one-to-three rule. |
#7
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Miking a concertina...
Hi Paul,
each musical instrument and voice needs a special built microphone - you think. As you use your especial built pea soup spoon, when you want to eat that soup. Right? Cheers ebs Ha Ha! I like this answer! Although the spoon manufacturers and spoon salesmen want you to believe that you *need* that special pea soup spoon. -mike i don't. i really don't think the analogy holds up. the spoon doesn't need to, and furthermore is incapable of, flattering or altering the taste of the soup. if it is altering the taste of the soup, something is seriously wrong. the spoon, unlike the mic, delivers the actual source material, unaltered (aside from, perhaps, some cooling), to the mouth of the eater. it is not capturing some vital element (the taste?) of the soup and changing it from one form of existence to another. not to mention the subjective and artistic nature of the craft of capturing a sound vs. the non-subjective utilitarian task of shoveling food into one's mouth. i can see the artistic elements of preparing food and even in appreciating fine cooking...but choice of spoon certainly allows for far less variation, experimentation or consequence to the results of it's intended purpose than microphone selection or placement does to it's respective purpose. but hey, one mic's as good as another right? they all sound the same...all those specs are marketing hype...the differences in sound you hear when you use different models? ...placebo! soup's on! Yeah I hate it when I hear a concertina recording that wasn't recorded with a Binson C36ai; which everyone knows is the optimum mic for this instrument. -mike |
#8
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Miking a concertina...
"Mike Turk" wrote in message ble.rogers.com...
Hi Paul, each musical instrument and voice needs a special built microphone - you think. As you use your especial built pea soup spoon, when you want to eat that soup. Right? Cheers ebs Ha Ha! I like this answer! Although the spoon manufacturers and spoon salesmen want you to believe that you *need* that special pea soup spoon. -mike i don't. i really don't think the analogy holds up. the spoon doesn't need to, and furthermore is incapable of, flattering or altering the taste of the soup. if it is altering the taste of the soup, something is seriously wrong. the spoon, unlike the mic, delivers the actual source material, unaltered (aside from, perhaps, some cooling), to the mouth of the eater. it is not capturing some vital element (the taste?) of the soup and changing it from one form of existence to another. not to mention the subjective and artistic nature of the craft of capturing a sound vs. the non-subjective utilitarian task of shoveling food into one's mouth. i can see the artistic elements of preparing food and even in appreciating fine cooking...but choice of spoon certainly allows for far less variation, experimentation or consequence to the results of it's intended purpose than microphone selection or placement does to it's respective purpose. but hey, one mic's as good as another right? they all sound the same...all those specs are marketing hype...the differences in sound you hear when you use different models? ...placebo! soup's on! Yeah I hate it when I hear a concertina recording that wasn't recorded with a Binson C36ai; which everyone knows is the optimum mic for this instrument. -mike so the people in this thread who've helpfully voiced opinions on flattering/appropriate mic choices/placement are full of ****? the guy posted an honest question asking for some guidance toward a flattering mic to use on a particular instrument and this jackass posts an analogy that basically said the question was as ridiculous as asking what kind of spoon someone should use to eat a particular kind of soup. i looked in on the thread because i was interested to see the responses, not to see someone being ridiculed for asking the question. that's why i responded. the only way that bull**** analogy would be valid is if the original poster asked: "what mic stand would make my concertina recording sound better?" to quote Ronny (or was it Donny?) from the motion picture Rushmo "...Get your head out of your ass!" |
#9
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Miking a concertina...
Yeah I hate it when I hear a concertina recording that wasn't recorded with a Binson C36ai; which everyone knows is the optimum mic for this instrument. -mike so the people in this thread who've helpfully voiced opinions on flattering/appropriate mic choices/placement are full of ****? the guy posted an honest question asking for some guidance toward a flattering mic to use on a particular instrument and this jackass posts an analogy that basically said the question was as ridiculous as asking what kind of spoon someone should use to eat a particular kind of soup. i looked in on the thread because i was interested to see the responses, not to see someone being ridiculed for asking the question. that's why i responded. the only way that bull**** analogy would be valid is if the original poster asked: "what mic stand would make my concertina recording sound better?" to quote Ronny (or was it Donny?) from the motion picture Rushmo "...Get your head out of your ass!" You ****in' anal idiot. The people who have voiced their opinions this aren't "full of ****"; they're all valid, but so is the pea soup spoon analogy. The point is ... one doesn't have to be wrong for another to be right. It's not black and white. Lots of people have made great recordings, all using different gear and different techniques. -mike |
#10
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Miking a concertina...
one doesn't have to be wrong for another to be right. It's not black
and white. This is true, although the pea soup spoon analogy, while correct in the case of soup, is not an approach I would spend a lot of time defending in the case of audio recording. Scott Fraser |
#12
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Miking a concertina...
Eberhard Sengpiel wrote:
Paul Beard home wrote Has anyone had any experience miking a concertina? What mike should I use (up to ukŁ250) and would it be better to use two mikes: one for each end or one better quality mike used somewhat centrally. Hi Paul, each musical instrument and voice needs a special built microphone - you think. As you use your especial built pea soup spoon, when you want to eat that soup. Right? Cheers ebs Look, Ebs, people don't ask "what microphone to use" because they think there is ONLY ONE "CORRECT" mic for any given instrument. They ask because they usually don't have time to start from scratch, in the dark, trying every microphone in the book, and because they don't have the money to buy a huge variety of microphones to try in the first place. Would it have made you happier if Paul had asked, "What microphone do you folk think I should try?" or, "What microphones have a good reputation for concertina?" The rest of us could pretty well figure out that's what he was getting at, without getting overly literal (and snarky, to boot...) BTW, while we're on the topic of spoons: I'd hate to try to eat pea soup with a parfait spoon. There are these things called "soup spoons," and they're different from dinner spoons and teaspoons for a perfectly good reason. Try eating your next meal with a serving spoon -- yeah, you can do it, but I bet you won't find it very pleasant. Once you're done with that you can try recording a symphony orchestra with an SM57 and see how well you like the results. (Hmmm.... now I'm getting snarky....) |
#13
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Miking a concertina...
= Paul Beard home wrote Has anyone had any experience miking a concertina? What mike should I use (up to uk=A3250) and would it be better to use two mikes: one for each end or one better quality mike used somewhat centrally. Dear Paul, yes it will be better with two mic's. They are very stereo. I have used two mic's pointing towards either end, about two foot above and one or two foot in front. Of course if you want anything like mono compatibility then go for a crossed pair, or a mixture of both styles. If you go for the spaced mic' style I would not pan them hard L + R in the mix. You may well find that the sound from either end is too discreet and that it begins to sound like a 60's stereo demonstration record. As for mic's, try 1050 Calrecs. They are back in production through Bridge Audio in Sheffield. Last time I bought some, just before Keith Ming died, they where =A3170 + VAT. I rate them as good as the KM84 and much better than the KM184. Plus they are British (stands up to salute then remembers he is not wearing any trousers). All the best Tom Leader To reply remove the detonator. |