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#1
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
This is a question from a MIDI Newbie.
I'm considering getting the Tascam US-1641: http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...ace?sku=245002 It comes with Cubase LE, and has MIDI in and out. I read that with Protools LE, you are able to create a musical transcription of your MIDI performance, and modify it, so you can fix any mistakes, or even use any other voice with the performance that you want to try. Will I be able to do the same with Cubase LE? |
#2
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
On May 30, 2:51*pm, Paul wrote:
This is a question from a MIDI Newbie. I'm considering getting the Tascam US-1641: * * * * * *http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...641-USB-2.0-Au... * * * * It comes with Cubase LE, and has MIDI in and out. *I read that with Protools LE, you are able to create a musical transcription of your MIDI performance, and modify it, so you can fix any mistakes, or even use any other voice with the performance that you want to try. * * * *Will I be able to do the same with Cubase LE? Looks like you can do the same with Cubase LE: ftp://ftp.steinberg.net/Download/Cub...ng_Started.pdf |
#3
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
On Sun, 30 May 2010 14:51:26 -0700 (PDT), Paul
wrote: This is a question from a MIDI Newbie. I'm considering getting the Tascam US-1641: http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...ace?sku=245002 It comes with Cubase LE, and has MIDI in and out. I read that with Protools LE, you are able to create a musical transcription of your MIDI performance, and modify it, so you can fix any mistakes, or even use any other voice with the performance that you want to try. Will I be able to do the same with Cubase LE? It depends what you mean by "Transcribe". If you want a notated copy of your performance, no, I think Cubase LE lacks the Score Edit feature - you have to buy the full Cubase for that. But be warned that Score Edit may not be all you hoped for. You need to play quite accurately to a click in order to get any meaningful notation. Sequencers have other ways of displaying data for editing that are generally rather more useful, even for trained musicians used to notation. If by "transcription" you mean record it and display it in a way allowing editing, yes, this is the basic function of any MIDI sequencer. And once your notes have been captured they can be re-routed to any other instrument that recognises MIDI. Sequencers generally include a selection of these as software (though you should check the exact features of "lite" versions bundled with keyboards etc.) You are aware, of course, that the Tascam you are considering is primarily a multi-channel audio interface. It would be very useful if you intend to record up to 16 audio sources simultaneously - e.g. recording a whole band with multiple microphones. But you can build up 16 (or more) tracks in a sequencer program without needing 16 SIMULTANEOUS inputs. Maybe you only need one stereo pair. From what you say about using MIDI, maybe you just need a simple MIDI interface. |
#4
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
On May 30, 6:40*pm, Laurence Payne wrote:
On Sun, 30 May 2010 14:51:26 -0700 (PDT), Paul wrote: This is a question from a MIDI Newbie. I'm considering getting the Tascam US-1641: * * * * * *http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...641-USB-2.0-Au... * * * *It comes with Cubase LE, and has MIDI in and out. *I read that with Protools LE, you are able to create a musical transcription of your MIDI performance, and modify it, so you can fix any mistakes, or even use any other voice with the performance that you want to try. * * * Will I be able to do the same with Cubase LE? It depends what you mean by "Transcribe". *If you want a notated copy of your performance, no, I think Cubase LE lacks the Score Edit feature - you have to buy the full Cubase for that. *But be warned that Score Edit may not be all you hoped for. *You need to play quite accurately to a click in order to get any meaningful notation. Sequencers have other ways of displaying data for editing that are generally rather more useful, even for trained musicians used to notation. No, Cubase LE includes the Score Edit function (see page 56). ftp://ftp.steinberg.net/Download/Cub...ng_Started.pdf If by "transcription" you mean record it and display it in a way allowing editing, yes, this is the basic function of any MIDI sequencer. *And once your notes have been captured they can be re-routed to any other instrument that recognises MIDI. *Sequencers generally include a selection of these as software (though you should check the exact features of "lite" versions bundled with keyboards etc.) You are aware, of course, that the Tascam you are considering is primarily a multi-channel audio interface. *It would be very useful if you intend to record up to 16 audio sources simultaneously - e.g. recording a whole band with multiple microphones. *But you can build up 16 (or more) tracks in a sequencer program without needing 16 SIMULTANEOUS inputs. *Maybe you only need one stereo pair. *From what you say about using MIDI, maybe you just need a simple MIDI interface. Yes, I'll be wanting to record live bands. But do most mixer boards have XLR line outs? because the 8 inputs on the front of this unit are only XLR. |
#5
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
The MAN wrote:
But do most mixer boards have XLR line outs? because the 8 inputs on the front of this unit are only XLR. Oy! Someone else who thinks that you have to connect XLRs to XLRs. The 8 XLR inputs on the US-1641 are for microphones. The four 1/4" inputs jacks on the rear are for line level outputs which you'd typically get from a console. You could use the eight mic inputs to connect to a console, but you'd need to adapt them by attenuating the line level signal from a mixer, and providing a higher input impdance so it doesn't load the console output. It's a simple job for someone comfortable with building custom cables, but it's something that would be expensive to buy. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson |
#6
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
On May 30, 8:25*pm, Mike Rivers wrote:
The MAN wrote: * * * *But do most mixer boards have XLR line outs? *because the 8 inputs on the front of this unit are only XLR. Oy! Someone else who thinks that you have to connect XLRs to XLRs. The 8 XLR inputs on the US-1641 are for microphones. The four 1/4" inputs jacks on the rear are for line level outputs which you'd typically get from a console. You could use the eight mic inputs to connect to a console, but you'd need to adapt them by attenuating the line level signal from a mixer, and providing a higher input impdance so it doesn't load the console output. It's a simple job for someone comfortable with building custom cables, but it's something that would be expensive to buy. That's exactly my point. They are only XLRs on the US-1641. I'm thinking the Digidesign 003 would be better: http://beatlabusa.com/images/003.jpg Because it has a direct input in addition to each XLR, which would make recording from a mixer board easier. |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
The MAN wrote:
http://beatlabusa.com/images/003.jpg Because it has a direct input in addition to each XLR, which would make recording from a mixer board easier. XLRs are the normal connection that everybody uses for line level balanced signals. Sometimes you will also see 1/4" phone plugs, so it's good to have cables for those as well. I don't suppose you're THE MAN from WebTV again, are you? --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#8
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
On May 31, 7:07*am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
The MAN wrote: * * * * * * * * *http://beatlabusa.com/images/003.jpg * * *Because it has a direct input in addition to each XLR, which would make recording from a mixer board easier. XLRs are the normal connection that everybody uses for line level balanced signals. *Sometimes you will also see 1/4" phone plugs, so it's good to have cables for those as well. But many of the smaller mixer boards I have seen do not have XLR line level outputs, so the Tascam US-1641 would not be as good for this, especially since you would have to attenuate the signal, because the inputs to the Tascam are mic inputs. |
#9
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
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#10
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
The MAN wrote:
On May 31, 7:07 am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote: The MAN wrote: http://beatlabusa.com/images/003.jpg Because it has a direct input in addition to each XLR, which would make recording from a mixer board easier. XLRs are the normal connection that everybody uses for line level balanced signals. Sometimes you will also see 1/4" phone plugs, so it's good to have cables for those as well. But many of the smaller mixer boards I have seen do not have XLR line level outputs, so the Tascam US-1641 would not be as good for this, especially since you would have to attenuate the signal, because the inputs to the Tascam are mic inputs. Apart from the balanced line level TRS jack sockets and SP-DIF inputs on the back panel, that is. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
#11
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
On May 31, 9:21*am, John Williamson
wrote: The MAN wrote: On May 31, 7:07 am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote: The MAN wrote: * * * * * * * * *http://beatlabusa.com/images/003.jpg * * *Because it has a direct input in addition to each XLR, which would make recording from a mixer board easier. XLRs are the normal connection that everybody uses for line level balanced signals. *Sometimes you will also see 1/4" phone plugs, so it's good to have cables for those as well. * * * *But many of the smaller mixer boards I have seen do not have XLR line level outputs, so the Tascam US-1641 would not be as good for this, especially since you would have to attenuate the signal, because the inputs to the Tascam are mic inputs. Apart from the balanced line level TRS jack sockets and SP-DIF inputs on the back panel, that is. But then I would lose the use of the 8 inputs on the front when recording from a live mixer board? |
#12
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
The MAN wrote:
But many of the smaller mixer boards I have seen do not have XLR line level outputs, so the Tascam US-1641 would not be as good for this, especially since you would have to attenuate the signal, because the inputs to the Tascam are mic inputs. Exactly. But the fact that many mixers don't have XLR line or direct outputs isn't the reason why this isn't a good match. You can adapt those easily. What's more difficult to adapt is a line output on a 1/4" jack or DB25 connector to a mic input. Some mixers have mic level outputs on XLRs, but usually just the main stereo mix, not individual channels, subgroups, or auxiliary outputs. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
The MAN wrote:
But many of the smaller mixer boards I have seen do not have XLR line level outputs, so the Tascam US-1641 would not be as good for this, especially since you would have to attenuate the signal, because the inputs to the Tascam are mic inputs. Uhh... okay, you're talking about two totally unrelated things here. First of all the connector.. it doesn't matter. If you're working on some kind of bargain basement mixer that has only 1/4" TRS outputs, then you use TRS to XLR cables. If you're going to interoperate with other folks' equipment, you're going to need a wide variety of cables available. The second is the input.... and if it's a mike level input, it's not what you want at all. That DOES matter. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#14
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
The MAN wrote:
On May 31, 9:21 am, John Williamson wrote: The MAN wrote: On May 31, 7:07 am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote: The MAN wrote: http://beatlabusa.com/images/003.jpg Because it has a direct input in addition to each XLR, which would make recording from a mixer board easier. XLRs are the normal connection that everybody uses for line level balanced signals. Sometimes you will also see 1/4" phone plugs, so it's good to have cables for those as well. But many of the smaller mixer boards I have seen do not have XLR line level outputs, so the Tascam US-1641 would not be as good for this, especially since you would have to attenuate the signal, because the inputs to the Tascam are mic inputs. Apart from the balanced line level TRS jack sockets and SP-DIF inputs on the back panel, that is. But then I would lose the use of the 8 inputs on the front when recording from a live mixer board? Nope, you get 6 line ins, four on the back, two on the front, the front two of which can be switched as high impedance inputs for guitars and so on, and eight microphone inputs, which, with not too much trouble or expense, can be padded to use as line inputs, if that's what you need, and a stereo SP-DIF digital input for a total of 16 simultaneous inputs. The components to pad the mic inputs will easily fit into a standard XLR - TRS adaptor body, or you can buy the adaptors off the shelf from most of the audio supply firms I deal with. Whether your computer can handle all this as well as the four independent analogue and two digital output channels over USB is another matter, of course. http://www.tascam.com/i-3616-232-128-0-DDC66B26.pdf Has all the gory details. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
#15
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
On May 31, 1:15*pm, John Williamson
wrote: The MAN wrote: On May 31, 9:21 am, John Williamson wrote: The MAN wrote: On May 31, 7:07 am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote: The MAN wrote: * * * * * * * * *http://beatlabusa.com/images/003..jpg * * *Because it has a direct input in addition to each XLR, which would make recording from a mixer board easier. XLRs are the normal connection that everybody uses for line level balanced signals. *Sometimes you will also see 1/4" phone plugs, so it's good to have cables for those as well. * * * *But many of the smaller mixer boards I have seen do not have XLR line level outputs, so the Tascam US-1641 would not be as good for this, especially since you would have to attenuate the signal, because the inputs to the Tascam are mic inputs. Apart from the balanced line level TRS jack sockets and SP-DIF inputs on the back panel, that is. * * * *But then I would lose the use of the 8 inputs on the front when recording from a live mixer board? Nope, you get 6 line ins, four on the back, two on the front, the front two of which can be switched as high impedance inputs for guitars and so on, and eight microphone inputs, which, with not too much trouble or expense, can be padded to use as line inputs, if that's what you need, and a stereo SP-DIF digital input for a total of 16 simultaneous inputs. The components to pad the mic inputs will easily fit into a standard XLR - TRS adaptor body, or you can buy the adaptors off the shelf from most of the audio supply firms I deal with. Whether your computer can handle all this as well as the four independent analogue and two digital output channels over USB is another matter, of course. http://www.tascam.com/i-3616-232-128-0-DDC66B26.pdf Has all the gory details. Yeah, this looks easy: http://www.uneeda-audio.com/pads/ Although many mixer boards appear not to have individual line outs for each channel, but rather AUX sends. It would be nice to record each channel separately during a live gig. |
#16
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
On May 31, 11:56*am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
The MAN wrote: * * * But many of the smaller mixer boards I have seen do not have XLR line level outputs, so the Tascam US-1641 would not be as good for this, especially since you would have to attenuate the signal, because the inputs to the Tascam are mic inputs. Uhh... okay, you're talking about two totally unrelated things here. First of all the connector.. it doesn't matter. *If you're working on some kind of bargain basement mixer that has only 1/4" TRS outputs, then you use TRS to XLR cables. *If you're going to interoperate with other folks' equipment, you're going to need a wide variety of cables available. The second is the input.... and if it's a mike level input, it's not what you want at all. *That DOES matter. --scott -- My point is that this all means the Digidesign 003 rack+ would be a bit easier recording off a mixer board, because it has 1/4" line level inputs, in addition to the XLR mic level inputs: http://www.resolutionproaudio.com/fe...s/digi003+.gif But even if I got the Tascam, the attenuators would be easy to make anyways. I would prefer to get the mic level signals from the stage first, from a signal-to-noise ratio point of view, but I imagine it won't matter much. |
#17
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
On Mon, 31 May 2010 15:47:13 -0700 (PDT), The MAN
wrote: Although many mixer boards appear not to have individual line outs for each channel, but rather AUX sends. It would be nice to record each channel separately during a live gig. They'll have insert points on each channel though. These are typically used to "sniff" a direct out. |
#18
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
The MAN wrote:
My point is that this all means the Digidesign 003 rack+ would be a bit easier recording off a mixer board, because it has 1/4" line level inputs, in addition to the XLR mic level inputs: If "easy" - as in you don't have to know anything about interfacing in order to hook it up, then sure. Go for it. But this is not rocket science. Thing is that the TASCAM interface that you're looking at is really not well suited for what you want to do, which is connect it to a mixer. It's designed to be the input device for a studio that doesn't have a mixer. The Digidesign 003R is also designed around a similar concept (remember, it's a component of Pro Tools LE, in which mixing is an important function). While it does have 8 1/4" line level input jacks, it has a lot of other inputs and outputs that you may never use. Frankly, I don't understand why TASCAM didn't go the route of most other manufacturers like this and make combination mic/line inputs (there's a 1/4" line input connector in the middle of the XLR), but they didn't. Have you looked at any other interfaces? M-Audio and Presonus make hardware that's more appropriate. That's why I suggested that you go to a store and do some looking around. That will help you to focus your Internet search for equipment and also help you to understand what you need and what you don't need. I would prefer to get the mic level signals from the stage first, from a signal-to-noise ratio point of view, but I imagine it won't matter much. Do you even need a mixer? Is this going to be to make recordings of a live show with PA? Have you considered a mixer with a built-in direct computer interface such as the Mackie Onyx i series, PreSonus StudioLive, Allen & Heath ZED-R16, or even some of the less expensive mixers from Phonic or Alesis? -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson |
#19
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
On May 31, 5:27*pm, Mike Rivers wrote:
The MAN wrote: * * *My point is that this all means the Digidesign 003 rack+ would be a bit easier recording off a mixer board, because it has 1/4" line level inputs, in addition to the XLR mic level inputs: If "easy" - as in you don't have to know anything about interfacing in order to hook it up, then sure. Go for it. But this is not rocket science. Thing is that the TASCAM interface that you're looking at is really not well suited for what you want to do, which is connect it to a mixer. It's designed to be the input device for a studio that doesn't have a mixer. The Digidesign 003R is also designed around a similar concept (remember, it's a component of Pro Tools LE, in which mixing is an important function). While it does have 8 1/4" line level input jacks, it has a lot of other inputs and outputs that you may never use. Frankly, I don't understand why TASCAM didn't go the route of most other manufacturers like this and make combination mic/line inputs (there's a 1/4" line input connector in the middle of the XLR), but they didn't. Have you looked at any other interfaces? M-Audio and Presonus make hardware that's more appropriate. That's why I suggested that you go to a store and do some looking around. That will help you to focus your Internet search for equipment and also help you to understand what you need and what you don't need. Agreed that Tascam should have included 1/4" line level inputs with the mic XLRs. I would prefer to get the mic level signals from the stage first, from a signal-to-noise ratio point of view, but I imagine it won't matter much. Do you even need a mixer? Is this going to be to make recordings of a live show with PA? Have you considered a mixer with a built-in direct computer interface such as the Mackie Onyx i series, PreSonus StudioLive, Allen & Heath ZED-R16, or even some of the less expensive mixers from Phonic or Alesis? I'm going to be doing mostly at home recording, with some live recording of bands, perhaps with a laptop, coming directly from the mixer board. I don't want to buy a mixer. But i would like to record from most mixers used in your typical live gig, with as much channel separation as possible. This later part because a simple two channel stereo mix from the board will obviously seriously limit what you can do with the recording. So far, the Digidesign 003 Rack+ looks to be the best candidate for this, but it's about $1200 more than the Tascam. Many believe the price difference is largely due to the Protools hype. If anyone can suggest something better than the US-1641, in a similar price range, i'd love to hear about it..... |
#20
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
The MAN wrote:
Although many mixer boards appear not to have individual line outs for each channel, but rather AUX sends. It would be nice to record each channel separately during a live gig. If you don't have inserts or direct outputs on the console where you can steal signal, you'll just have to bite the bullet and do it properly with mike splitters. You _are_ the guy from WebTV, aren't you? --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#21
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
On May 31, 7:12*pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
The MAN wrote: * * * Although many mixer boards appear not to have individual line outs for each channel, but rather AUX sends. *It would be nice to record each channel separately during a live gig. If you don't have inserts or direct outputs on the console where you can steal signal, you'll just have to bite the bullet and do it properly with mike splitters. You mean like with this one: http://www.music123.com/ART-S8-8-Cha...source=ZWNTWXX Or I could get some of these: http://compare.ebay.com/spid/2951836...ShippingLowest Yes, thank you. Good advice. |
#22
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
The MAN wrote:
I'm going to be doing mostly at home recording, with some live recording of bands, perhaps with a laptop, coming directly from the mixer board. I don't want to buy a mixer. But i would like to record from most mixers used in your typical live gig, with as much channel separation as possible. There's no standardized "direct" output for mixers. Many indeed have channel insert jacks (though not all mixer, and some have then on some, but not all channels) which can be used as direct outputs, but that's something that's best to do with custom cables. And if the insert jack is being used as part of the PA setup, for instance, if there's a compressor connected to that channel using the insert, then it's not available to you as a recording output. The most universal on-stage recording setup is to split the mic outputs, with one output going to the PA mixer and the other output going to your recording rig - which brings you back to Advantage TASCAM since it has mic level inputs. When doing recordings in the field, you need to be ready to connect to whatever gear you don't supply. So far, the Digidesign 003 Rack+ looks to be the best candidate for this, but it's about $1200 more than the Tascam. Many believe the price difference is largely due to the Protools hype. Not only the Pro Tools hype, but that you can't buy it without Pro Tools. I don't keep up with these things, so I don't know if it's even possible to use the Digidesign 003 with other programs, for instance Cubase. If you think that Pro Tools might be in your future but not right now, you might look into what M-Audio has to offer. Many of their interfaces are compatible with a special version of Pro Tools which you can purchase when you're ready, but they come with standard Windows drivers so they'll work with any Windows audio program. Some have even been implemented (third party) for Linux. The PreSonus Firestudio Project (8 combo mic/line inputs) is very well thought out for working in a home studio without a mixer and it ships with a new multi-function DAW program Studio One Artist - not as well known as Cubase, but has a much more musician-friendly learning curve. The Firestudio 2626 adds 2 ADAT optical ports for an additional 16 channels, to which you can connect an 8-channel mic preamp with ADAT outputs, or connect it to a mixer that had ADAT I/O. The PreSonus interfaces use a driver that's common across the product line and which is capable of supporting up to three interfaces. If you start out with a Firestudio Project, for instance, and need some more inputs, you can buy another one, or any of the other interfaces in the Firestudio line, plug in the Firewire cable, and more inputs and outputs will show up in your computer. Focusrite has a similar line of interfaces in the Focusrite Pro series, also combo mic/line inputs, some with ADAT I/O, and also with a multi-device driver. The trouble with buying an interface based on price alone is that there's always going to be something missing. It may not be obvious to you now, but it may rear its ugly head sooner than later as you get down to work. Then you'll be back here asking "How can I . . .. ?" and the unfortunate answer will be "You can't." It's good to plan a little ahead of what you think you need right now, and in order to do so, you need to have a pretty good grasp of what you're likely to encounter with your various setups. That's something you mainly get with experience, but you can get a good head start by talking to someone who has done things similar to what you plan to do. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson |
#23
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
"The MAN" wrote in message
If you don't have inserts or direct outputs on the console where you can steal signal, you'll just have to bite the bullet and do it properly with mike splitters. You mean like with this one: http://www.music123.com/ART-S8-8-Cha...source=ZWNTWXX Or I could get some of these: http://compare.ebay.com/spid/2951836...ShippingLowest Mike splitters are a relatively expensive, complex way to go if you can grab a direct output from the mixer's mic preamps via the Insert Outs. The ART mic splitter runs $30 a channel, while a cable for tapping into the Insert Out will run a fraction of the cost, particularly if you DIY the cable. The mic splitter also has a potential impact on the load impedance for the mic, but this is usually not a problem. |
#24
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
The MAN wrote: I'm going to be doing mostly at home recording, with some live recording of bands, perhaps with a laptop, coming directly from the mixer board. I don't want to buy a mixer. But i would like to record from most mixers used in your typical live gig, with as much channel separation as possible. There's no standardized "direct" output for mixers. Many indeed have channel insert jacks (though not all mixer, and some have then on some, but not all channels) which can be used as direct outputs, but that's something that's best to do with custom cables. And if the insert jack is being used as part of the PA setup, for instance, if there's a compressor connected to that channel using the insert, then it's not available to you as a recording output. Tapping into an insert loop that already has a processor in it, is not exactly rocket science. You just need to add an appropriate "Y "cable. |
#25
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
On Tue, 1 Jun 2010 07:59:01 -0400, Arny Krueger wrote:
Tapping into an insert loop that already has a processor in it, is not exactly rocket science. You just need to add an appropriate "Y "cable. You've already gone over his head. Keep it simple |
#26
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
In article ,
The MAN wrote: On May 31, 7:12=A0pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote: The MAN wrote: =A0 =A0 =A0 Although many mixer boards appear not to have individual line outs for each channel, but rather AUX sends. =A0It would be nice to record each channel separately during a live gig. If you don't have inserts or direct outputs on the console where you can steal signal, you'll just have to bite the bullet and do it properly with mike splitters. You mean like with this one: http://www.music123.com/ART-S8-8-Cha...-Mic-Splitter= -180221-i1386012.Music123?source=3DZWNTWXX Well..... I'm not sure I would trust a transformer in that price range, but you could give it a try. Splitters avoid political problems. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#28
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
On Jun 1, 4:42*am, Mike Rivers wrote:
The MAN wrote: * * * * I'm going to be doing mostly at home recording, with some live recording of bands, perhaps with a laptop, coming directly from the mixer board. *I don't want to buy a mixer. *But i would like to record from most mixers used in your typical live gig, with as much channel separation as possible. * There's no standardized "direct" output for mixers. Many indeed have channel insert jacks (though not all mixer, and some have then on some, but not all channels) which can be used as direct outputs, but that's something that's best to do with custom cables. And if the insert jack is being used as part of the PA setup, for instance, if there's a compressor connected to that channel using the insert, then it's not available to you as a recording output. The most universal on-stage recording setup is to split the mic outputs, with one output going to the PA mixer and the other output going to your recording rig - which brings you back to Advantage TASCAM since it has mic level inputs. When doing recordings in the field, you need to be ready to connect to whatever gear you don't supply. So far, the Digidesign 003 Rack+ looks to be the best candidate for this, but it's about $1200 more than the Tascam. *Many believe the price difference is largely due to the Protools hype. Not only the Pro Tools hype, but that you can't buy it without Pro Tools. I don't keep up with these things, so I don't know if it's even possible to use the Digidesign 003 with other programs, for instance Cubase. If you think that Pro Tools might be in your future but not right now, you might look into what M-Audio has to offer. Many of their interfaces are compatible with a special version of Pro Tools which you can purchase when you're ready, but they come with standard Windows drivers so they'll work with any Windows audio program. Some have even been implemented (third party) for Linux. The PreSonus Firestudio Project (8 combo mic/line inputs) is very well thought out for working in a home studio without a mixer and it ships with a new multi-function DAW program Studio One Artist - not as well known as Cubase, but has a much more musician-friendly learning curve. The Firestudio 2626 adds 2 ADAT optical ports for an additional 16 channels, to which you can connect an 8-channel mic preamp with ADAT outputs, or connect it to a mixer that had ADAT I/O. The PreSonus interfaces use a driver that's common across the product line and which is capable of supporting up to three interfaces. If you start out with a Firestudio Project, for instance, and need some more inputs, you can buy another one, or any of the other interfaces in the Firestudio line, plug in the Firewire cable, and more inputs and outputs will show up in your computer. Focusrite has a similar line of interfaces in the Focusrite Pro series, also combo mic/line inputs, some with ADAT I/O, and also with a multi-device driver. That looks like an interesting unit. At about $100 more than the Tascam, as I don't expect to use ADAT opticals. But some are packaging Cubase LE with it: http://www.audiolines.com/Studio-Rec...-Project-69306 The trouble with buying an interface based on price alone is that there's always going to be something missing. It may not be obvious to you now, but it may rear its ugly head sooner than later as you get down to work. Then you'll be back here asking "How can I . . .. *?" and the unfortunate answer will be "You can't." *It's good to plan a little ahead of what you think you need right now, and in order to do so, you need to have a pretty good grasp of what you're likely to encounter with your various setups. That's something you mainly get with experience, but you can get a good head start by talking to someone who has done things similar to what you plan to do. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson |
#29
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
On Tue, 1 Jun 2010 11:41:07 -0700 (PDT), The MAN wrote:
On Jun 1, 4:42*am, Mike Rivers wrote: The MAN wrote: * * * * I'm going to be doing mostly at home recording, with some live recording of bands, perhaps with a laptop, coming directly from the mixer board. *I don't want to buy a mixer. *But i would like to record from most mixers used in your typical live gig, with as much channel separation as possible. * There's no standardized "direct" output for mixers. Many indeed have channel insert jacks (though not all mixer, and some have then on some, but not all channels) which can be used as direct outputs, but that's something that's best to do with custom cables. And if the insert jack is being used as part of the PA setup, for instance, if there's a compressor connected to that channel using the insert, then it's not available to you as a recording output. The most universal on-stage recording setup is to split the mic outputs, with one output going to the PA mixer and the other output going to your recording rig - which brings you back to Advantage TASCAM since it has mic level inputs. When doing recordings in the field, you need to be ready to connect to whatever gear you don't supply. So far, the Digidesign 003 Rack+ looks to be the best candidate for this, but it's about $1200 more than the Tascam. *Many believe the price difference is largely due to the Protools hype. Not only the Pro Tools hype, but that you can't buy it without Pro Tools. I don't keep up with these things, so I don't know if it's even possible to use the Digidesign 003 with other programs, for instance Cubase. If you think that Pro Tools might be in your future but not right now, you might look into what M-Audio has to offer. Many of their interfaces are compatible with a special version of Pro Tools which you can purchase when you're ready, but they come with standard Windows drivers so they'll work with any Windows audio program. Some have even been implemented (third party) for Linux. The PreSonus Firestudio Project (8 combo mic/line inputs) is very well thought out for working in a home studio without a mixer and it ships with a new multi-function DAW program Studio One Artist - not as well known as Cubase, but has a much more musician-friendly learning curve. The Firestudio 2626 adds 2 ADAT optical ports for an additional 16 channels, to which you can connect an 8-channel mic preamp with ADAT outputs, or connect it to a mixer that had ADAT I/O. The PreSonus interfaces use a driver that's common across the product line and which is capable of supporting up to three interfaces. If you start out with a Firestudio Project, for instance, and need some more inputs, you can buy another one, or any of the other interfaces in the Firestudio line, plug in the Firewire cable, and more inputs and outputs will show up in your computer. Focusrite has a similar line of interfaces in the Focusrite Pro series, also combo mic/line inputs, some with ADAT I/O, and also with a multi-device driver. That looks like an interesting unit. At about $100 more than the Tascam, as I don't expect to use ADAT opticals. But some are packaging Cubase LE with it: http://www.audiolines.com/Studio-Rec...-Project-69306 Here is something that might be of interest: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ace_and.h tml It comes with Cubase LE and Abelton Lite. Price is $607 when put in your cart. |
#30
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
On Jun 1, 12:16*pm, Moshe wrote:
On Tue, 1 Jun 2010 11:41:07 -0700 (PDT), The MAN wrote: On Jun 1, 4:42*am, Mike Rivers wrote: The MAN wrote: * * * * I'm going to be doing mostly at home recording, with some live recording of bands, perhaps with a laptop, coming directly from the mixer board. *I don't want to buy a mixer. *But i would like to record from most mixers used in your typical live gig, with as much channel separation as possible. * There's no standardized "direct" output for mixers. Many indeed have channel insert jacks (though not all mixer, and some have then on some, but not all channels) which can be used as direct outputs, but that's something that's best to do with custom cables. And if the insert jack is being used as part of the PA setup, for instance, if there's a compressor connected to that channel using the insert, then it's not available to you as a recording output. The most universal on-stage recording setup is to split the mic outputs, with one output going to the PA mixer and the other output going to your recording rig - which brings you back to Advantage TASCAM since it has mic level inputs. When doing recordings in the field, you need to be ready to connect to whatever gear you don't supply. So far, the Digidesign 003 Rack+ looks to be the best candidate for this, but it's about $1200 more than the Tascam. *Many believe the price difference is largely due to the Protools hype. Not only the Pro Tools hype, but that you can't buy it without Pro Tools. I don't keep up with these things, so I don't know if it's even possible to use the Digidesign 003 with other programs, for instance Cubase. If you think that Pro Tools might be in your future but not right now, you might look into what M-Audio has to offer. Many of their interfaces are compatible with a special version of Pro Tools which you can purchase when you're ready, but they come with standard Windows drivers so they'll work with any Windows audio program. Some have even been implemented (third party) for Linux. The PreSonus Firestudio Project (8 combo mic/line inputs) is very well thought out for working in a home studio without a mixer and it ships with a new multi-function DAW program Studio One Artist - not as well known as Cubase, but has a much more musician-friendly learning curve. The Firestudio 2626 adds 2 ADAT optical ports for an additional 16 channels, to which you can connect an 8-channel mic preamp with ADAT outputs, or connect it to a mixer that had ADAT I/O. The PreSonus interfaces use a driver that's common across the product line and which is capable of supporting up to three interfaces. If you start out with a Firestudio Project, for instance, and need some more inputs, you can buy another one, or any of the other interfaces in the Firestudio line, plug in the Firewire cable, and more inputs and outputs will show up in your computer. Focusrite has a similar line of interfaces in the Focusrite Pro series, also combo mic/line inputs, some with ADAT I/O, and also with a multi-device driver. * * * * *That looks like an interesting unit. *At about $100 more than the Tascam, as I don't expect to use ADAT opticals. * * * * *But some are packaging Cubase LE with it: http://www.audiolines.com/Studio-Rec...io/Audio-Inter... Here is something that might be of interest: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._MASTERCONTROL... It comes with Cubase LE and Abelton Lite. Price is $607 when put in your cart. Another interesting box. But only 2 mic pre-amps. And you are mainly paying the extra $ for the motorized faders and control surface, etc. I've used Cubase before, and I don't mind using a mouse for everything. |
#31
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
On Jun 1, 11:41*am, The MAN wrote:
On Jun 1, 4:42*am, Mike Rivers wrote: The MAN wrote: * * * * I'm going to be doing mostly at home recording, with some live recording of bands, perhaps with a laptop, coming directly from the mixer board. *I don't want to buy a mixer. *But i would like to record from most mixers used in your typical live gig, with as much channel separation as possible. * There's no standardized "direct" output for mixers. Many indeed have channel insert jacks (though not all mixer, and some have then on some, but not all channels) which can be used as direct outputs, but that's something that's best to do with custom cables. And if the insert jack is being used as part of the PA setup, for instance, if there's a compressor connected to that channel using the insert, then it's not available to you as a recording output. The most universal on-stage recording setup is to split the mic outputs, with one output going to the PA mixer and the other output going to your recording rig - which brings you back to Advantage TASCAM since it has mic level inputs. When doing recordings in the field, you need to be ready to connect to whatever gear you don't supply. So far, the Digidesign 003 Rack+ looks to be the best candidate for this, but it's about $1200 more than the Tascam. *Many believe the price difference is largely due to the Protools hype. Not only the Pro Tools hype, but that you can't buy it without Pro Tools. I don't keep up with these things, so I don't know if it's even possible to use the Digidesign 003 with other programs, for instance Cubase. If you think that Pro Tools might be in your future but not right now, you might look into what M-Audio has to offer. Many of their interfaces are compatible with a special version of Pro Tools which you can purchase when you're ready, but they come with standard Windows drivers so they'll work with any Windows audio program. Some have even been implemented (third party) for Linux. The PreSonus Firestudio Project (8 combo mic/line inputs) is very well thought out for working in a home studio without a mixer and it ships with a new multi-function DAW program Studio One Artist - not as well known as Cubase, but has a much more musician-friendly learning curve. The Firestudio 2626 adds 2 ADAT optical ports for an additional 16 channels, to which you can connect an 8-channel mic preamp with ADAT outputs, or connect it to a mixer that had ADAT I/O. The PreSonus interfaces use a driver that's common across the product line and which is capable of supporting up to three interfaces. If you start out with a Firestudio Project, for instance, and need some more inputs, you can buy another one, or any of the other interfaces in the Firestudio line, plug in the Firewire cable, and more inputs and outputs will show up in your computer. Focusrite has a similar line of interfaces in the Focusrite Pro series, also combo mic/line inputs, some with ADAT I/O, and also with a multi-device driver. * * * * *That looks like an interesting unit. *At about $100 more than the Tascam, as I don't expect to use ADAT opticals. * * * * *But some are packaging Cubase LE with it: http://www.audiolines.com/Studio-Rec...io/Audio-Inter... Also, if I'm not mistaken, it looks like the Firestudio has 10 simultaneous inputs (8 on front, 2 digital), while the Tascam has a total of 16. |
#32
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
Arny Krueger wrote:
Tapping into an insert loop that already has a processor in it, is not exactly rocket science. You just need to add an appropriate "Y "cable. To someone who considers having the same connector type as his mixer an important factor in choosing an interface, a Y cable IS rocket science. It's why I didn't go into the "halfway into the Insert jack and why you shouldn't" explanation this time around. And even if YOU understand what you're about to do, the person with the PA system may not want you to pull any of his cables. It may be a small can of worms, but it's still a can of worms. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson |
#33
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
On Tue, 01 Jun 2010 18:30:52 -0400, Mike Rivers wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote: Tapping into an insert loop that already has a processor in it, is not exactly rocket science. You just need to add an appropriate "Y "cable. To someone who considers having the same connector type as his mixer an important factor in choosing an interface, a Y cable IS rocket science. It's why I didn't go into the "halfway into the Insert jack and why you shouldn't" explanation this time around. And even if YOU understand what you're about to do, the person with the PA system may not want you to pull any of his cables. It may be a small can of worms, but it's still a can of worms. Agreed. The biggest can of worms however is that the 1/2 way inserted cable is prone to pop out of the jack. This depends upon the brand of plug of course,some are better than others, but in general and especially in a live recording situation. This drives me crazy with Mackie gear. |
#34
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
Moshe wrote:
The biggest can of worms however is that the 1/2 way inserted cable is prone to pop out of the jack. This depends upon the brand of plug of course,some are better than others, but in general and especially in a live recording situation. This drives me crazy with Mackie gear. It's a problem with the jack, not the plug. The jacks on the original Onyx series didn't do a very good job of gripping the plug at the first "notch" but the VLZ3 seems to have jacks that are better in this regard (as were the earlier jacks they used, hence their support for this means of connection). If the plug pops out, that's a problem for recording, but if it pops in (someone walks in front of the console and bumps the plug) it can interrupt that channel in the PA. That's why the live sound engineers are shy about that means of connection. OK, I said I wouldn't say it, but here it comes. It's easy to make or modify a cable with a TRS plug on the console end so the tip and ring are connected together. That way it can be inserted fully and pick off the preamp output while leaving the channel signal path intact. But that's where the rocket science comes in. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson |
#35
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
On Tue, 01 Jun 2010 21:26:54 -0400, Mike Rivers wrote:
OK, I said I wouldn't say it, but here it comes. It's easy to make or modify a cable with a TRS plug on the console end so the tip and ring are connected together. That way it can be inserted fully and pick off the preamp output while leaving the channel signal path intact. But that's where the rocket science comes in. Bingo. But that's where the OP is lost because he doesn't seem to have the real world experience. That's just my opinion, and I applaud him for asking his questions and hopefully they have been answered. That's what this forum is about. |
#36
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
Arny Krueger wrote: Tapping into an insert loop that already has a processor in it, is not exactly rocket science. You just need to add an appropriate "Y "cable. To someone who considers having the same connector type as his mixer an important factor in choosing an interface, a Y cable IS rocket science. It's why I didn't go into the "halfway into the Insert jack and why you shouldn't" explanation this time around. And even if YOU understand what you're about to do, the person with the PA system may not want you to pull any of his cables. It may be a small can of worms, but it's still a can of worms. I didn't get the impression from the OP that this was about syphoning audio off of someone else's mixer. Looking over the posts from "Paul", the OP, I don't see where he said this is the case, but maybe I missed something. I see where the issues relating to tapping into someone else's mixer entered the discussion, but I don't think that the source of them was the OP. Obviously, if you are tapping into someone else's rig, you play by their rules. |
#37
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
Arny Krueger wrote:
I didn't get the impression from the OP that this was about syphoning audio off of someone else's mixer. I often try to read between the lines for missing information. Sometimes I guess wrong. This came from a post when someone (I assume the original poster - I don't keep track) said that he wanted to use the interface in his home studio and sometimes connect to a mixer. Since he didn't say "My mixer, which is a vintage Mackie CR1604" I figured that he might be thinking that mixers were all about the same and all had convenient recording outputs to which he could connect his interface. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson |
#38
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
On Jun 2, 4:31*am, Mike Rivers wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote: I didn't get the impression from the OP that this was about syphoning audio off of someone else's mixer. I often try to read between the lines for missing information. Sometimes I guess wrong. This came from a post when someone (I assume the original poster - I don't keep track) said that he wanted to use the interface in his home studio and sometimes connect to a mixer. Since he didn't say "My mixer, which is a vintage Mackie CR1604" I figured that he might be thinking that mixers were all about the same and all had convenient recording outputs to which he could connect his interface. Basically in the ball park. As I wrote before, I'd like to do multi-track recording at home, or in the field at any sort of live gig for other bands. But since I cannot be guaranteed an insert output from each channel, I may have to use a mic splitter in some cases. And the mic splitter (or attenuators) would solve the problem of the Tascam US-1641 having only XLR mic inputs on 8 channels on the front. The Presonus Firestudio has 1/4" line-level inputs, but only 10 simultaneous inputs versus 16 on the US-1641 (not sure if I will ever go that high, but nice to know). I don't see any side-by- side comparisons of how the pre-amps sound, so I'm just gonna have to get the US-1641 and see if i like it as much as other people do. Now the US-1641 has up to 16 simultaneous record inputs, and of course the number of play-back tracks you can play during over- dubbing will depend on the speed of the computer. But I imagine it's difficult to predict how many you can play simultaneously while recording 16 tracks. Just wondering, because I was reading about how Enya achieves her trademark sound by overdubbing her voice up to 80 times! Wow! |
#39
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
Paul wrote:
The Presonus Firestudio has 1/4" line-level inputs, but only 10 simultaneous inputs versus 16 on the US-1641 (not sure if I will ever go that high, but nice to know). I don't see any side-by- side comparisons of how the pre-amps sound, so I'm just gonna have to get the US-1641 and see if i like it as much as other people do. You won't see any side-by-side comparison of how mic preamps sound, at least not a meaningful comparison or one you can trust. I'm sure the TASCAM preamps are OK and that if you were to do your own comparison, while you might notice a difference, it wouldn't be like night and day. You know, you could buy both and send back the one you like the least. All of the on-line dealers have a reasonable return policy because they know there are certain things that you can't really find out until you have some actual working experience with a device. It'll cost you for return shipping, but ten or fifteen bucks is a small price to pay for the opportunity to both compare the sound and the functional features. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson |
#40
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CAN CUBASE LE TRANSCRIBE MY PIANO PERFORMANCE???
On Jun 1, 5:47*am, The MAN wrote:
On May 31, 1:15*pm, John Williamson wrote: The MAN wrote: On May 31, 9:21 am, John Williamson wrote: The MAN wrote: On May 31, 7:07 am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote: The MAN wrote: * * * * * * * * *http://beatlabusa.com/images/003.jpg * * *Because it has a direct input in addition to each XLR, which would make recording from a mixer board easier. XLRs are the normal connection that everybody uses for line level balanced signals. *Sometimes you will also see 1/4" phone plugs, so it's good to have cables for those as well. * * * *But many of the smaller mixer boards I have seen do not have XLR line level outputs, so the Tascam US-1641 would not be as good for this, especially since you would have to attenuate the signal, because the inputs to the Tascam are mic inputs. Apart from the balanced line level TRS jack sockets and SP-DIF inputs on the back panel, that is. * * * *But then I would lose the use of the 8 inputs on the front when recording from a live mixer board? Nope, you get 6 line ins, four on the back, two on the front, the front two of which can be switched as high impedance inputs for guitars and so on, and eight microphone inputs, which, with not too much trouble or expense, can be padded to use as line inputs, if that's what you need, and a stereo SP-DIF digital input for a total of 16 simultaneous inputs.. The components to pad the mic inputs will easily fit into a standard XLR - TRS adaptor body, or you can buy the adaptors off the shelf from most of the audio supply firms I deal with. Whether your computer can handle all this as well as the four independent analogue and two digital output channels over USB is another matter, of course. http://www.tascam.com/i-3616-232-128-0-DDC66B26.pdf Has all the gory details. * * * *Yeah, this looks easy: * * * * * * *http://www.uneeda-audio.com/pads/ * * * *Although many mixer boards appear not to have individual line outs for each channel, but rather AUX sends. *It would be nice to record each channel separately during a live gig. A lot of smaller mixers I've used (typically at live gigs) tend to have the Aux sends as you say, but often also have Insert connections, so I presume with the appropriate cabliing, these can be used to output each channel separately to the computer input? Chris http://rolanddrums.org http://gibsonacoustic.org |
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