[[email protected]]

With an ear toward pop country, I notice that even in recordings where
the vocal sounds very up front & dry, in certain spaces where the
backing tracks drop out you can still hear some reverb decay, it's
just not particularly noticeable through most of the track.

Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop country
vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle presence you
can't achieve without it?

[Geoff]

wrote:
With an ear toward pop country, I notice that even in recordings where
the vocal sounds very up front & dry, in certain spaces where the
backing tracks drop out you can still hear some reverb decay, it's
just not particularly noticeable through most of the track.

Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop country
vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle presence you
can't achieve without it?

Very rare that 0 reverb added. Often too much is added. In some genres this
helps mask other deficiencies in the recording or performance. Or the
producer's bad taste.

geoff

[Romeo Rondeau]

wrote:
With an ear toward pop country, I notice that even in recordings where
the vocal sounds very up front & dry, in certain spaces where the
backing tracks drop out you can still hear some reverb decay, it's
just not particularly noticeable through most of the track.

Sometimes it's the room they recorded the vocal in.


Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop country
vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle presence you
can't achieve without it?

Having absolutely no reverb isn't very natural sounding, our ears are
used to hearing some form of ambience all the time, even if it's just
sound reflecting off the ceiling or walls. Hearing none at all makes
your brain say "Wha?"

[Laurence Payne]

On 22 Mar 2007 17:54:58 -0700, wrote:

With an ear toward pop country, I notice that even in recordings where
the vocal sounds very up front & dry, in certain spaces where the
backing tracks drop out you can still hear some reverb decay, it's
just not particularly noticeable through most of the track.

Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop country
vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle presence you
can't achieve without it?

It's good for a voice to sound as if it's in a room. If you're going
to record close-miced (maybe even in a deadened vocal booth) it's
pretty well essential to add a bit of artificial reverb.

[Romeo Rondeau]

Laurence Payne wrote:
On 22 Mar 2007 17:54:58 -0700, wrote:

With an ear toward pop country, I notice that even in recordings where
the vocal sounds very up front & dry, in certain spaces where the
backing tracks drop out you can still hear some reverb decay, it's
just not particularly noticeable through most of the track.

Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop country
vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle presence you
can't achieve without it?

It's good for a voice to sound as if it's in a room. If you're going
to record close-miced (maybe even in a deadened vocal booth) it's
pretty well essential to add a bit of artificial reverb.

Or pump it into the main room and mike the room :-)

[Les Cargill]

wrote:
With an ear toward pop country, I notice that even in recordings where
the vocal sounds very up front & dry, in certain spaces where the
backing tracks drop out you can still hear some reverb decay, it's
just not particularly noticeable through most of the track.

Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop country
vocal?

Yes.

I assume it's used because of a certain subtle presence you
can't achieve without it?


Reverb brings out the nasty in autotune. And *SUBTLE*???? Ha!

--
Les Cargill

[Les Cargill]

Geoff wrote:
wrote:

With an ear toward pop country, I notice that even in recordings where
the vocal sounds very up front & dry, in certain spaces where the
backing tracks drop out you can still hear some reverb decay, it's
just not particularly noticeable through most of the track.

Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop country
vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle presence you
can't achieve without it?


Very rare that 0 reverb added. Often too much is added. In some genres this
helps mask other deficiencies in the recording or performance. Or the
producer's bad taste.

geoff



Compared to say, Patsy Cline, there is no reverb at all.

--
Les Cargill

[Agent 86]

On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 16:54:43 -0400, Les Cargill wrote:



Compared to say, Patsy Cline, there is no reverb at all.

Heaven forbid we should ever expect that a singer should actually be able
to sing.

[Barry]

On Mar 22, 7:54 pm, wrote:

Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop country
vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle presence you
can't achieve without it?

reverb is just delay right?... even without it, you could use a simple
delay
set it for high bpm

[Scott Dorsey]

Barry wrote:
On Mar 22, 7:54 pm, wrote:

Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop country
vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle presence you
can't achieve without it?

reverb is just delay right?... even without it, you could use a simple
delay

No, reverb is an infinite number of slightly different delays.

A simple delay gives you the "tape slap" vocal effect you'll hear on
Great Balls of Fire.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Laurence Payne]

On 23 Mar 2007 19:49:38 -0700, "Barry" wrote:

reverb is just delay right?...

Wrong. Look it up.

[Barry]

On Mar 24, 4:39 am, Laurence Payne lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom
wrote:
On 23 Mar 2007 19:49:38 -0700, "Barry" wrote:

reverb is just delay right?...

Wrong. Look it up.

oh relax, for all intents and purposes, he could thicken the vocal
without a reverb

that was my point, and yes, reverb IS delay.. even if it's a million
of them
they are delayed or pre-delayed

make up your mind there skipper

[Mike Heins]

On 2007-03-23, wrote:
With an ear toward pop country, I notice that even in recordings where
the vocal sounds very up front & dry, in certain spaces where the
backing tracks drop out you can still hear some reverb decay, it's
just not particularly noticeable through most of the track.

Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop country
vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle presence you
can't achieve without it?

Is zero reverb ever used in anything any more? Didn't even the
old-time radio singers use a plate?

I believe reverb is used for two reasons -- the recording itself
and for the singer while doing the recording (or live singing for
that matter).

I know that when I am singing, I can tell when there is no reverb and
it is discomfiting to have those small tonal imperfections right in
my face. Obviously I know they exist, and I can even tell when there
is a little phlegm causing a muddy tone, but it is discouraging to
hear it so well.

--
Mike Heins
Perusion -- Expert Interchange Consulting http://www.perusion.com/

Be patient. God isn't finished with me yet. -- unknown

[hank alrich]

Barry wrote:

Laurence Payne wrote:
On 23 Mar 2007 19:49:38 -0700, "Barry" wrote:

reverb is just delay right?...

Wrong. Look it up.

oh relax, for all intents and purposes, he could thicken the vocal
without a reverb

that was my point, and yes, reverb IS delay.. even if it's a million
of them
they are delayed or pre-delayed

make up your mind there skipper

No reverb, is not "just delay" in the professionally understood use of
those words. If you do not care to be precise there's always
"yourhomestudiodotcom", etc.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[Edwin Hurwitz]

In article ,
(Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Barry wrote:
On Mar 22, 7:54 pm, wrote:

Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop country
vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle presence you
can't achieve without it?

reverb is just delay right?... even without it, you could use a simple
delay

No, reverb is an infinite number of slightly different delays.

A simple delay gives you the "tape slap" vocal effect you'll hear on
Great Balls of Fire.
--scott

Careful. The majority of today's youngsters never heard of Great Balls
of Fire, let alone Jerry Lee Lewis.

Edwin

[Barry]

On Mar 24, 11:47 am, (hank alrich) wrote:

No reverb, is not "just delay" in the professionally understood use of
those words. If you do not care to be precise there's always
"yourhomestudiodotcom", etc.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

Right! If you want reverb you gotta ask for reverb

don't be mealy mouthed either, come on outcha mouth with it

[Barry]

On Mar 24, 11:32 am, Mike Heins wrote:

I know that when I am singing, I can tell when there is no reverb and
it is discomfiting to have those small tonal imperfections right in
my face. Obviously I know they exist, and I can even tell when there
is a little phlegm causing a muddy tone, but it is discouraging to
hear it so well.

so turn it down, you scared to tell the man "It's too loud man.. can
you turn it down a little bit"


Pappy

[Mike Heins]

On 2007-03-24, Barry wrote:
On Mar 24, 11:32 am, Mike Heins wrote:

I know that when I am singing, I can tell when there is no reverb and
it is discomfiting to have those small tonal imperfections right in
my face. Obviously I know they exist, and I can even tell when there
is a little phlegm causing a muddy tone, but it is discouraging to
hear it so well.

so turn it down, you scared to tell the man "It's too loud man.. can
you turn it down a little bit"

Is it normal to be combative in this group? Ah well, it *is* Usenet, and
we are still in the endless September.

You *want* to hear yourself if you are a singer, of course. If you can't
hear yourself, it is difficult to sing well. I think we spend lots of time
and money on monitor mixes for just that reason....

--
Mike Heins

Be patient. God isn't finished with me yet. -- unknown

[Romeo Rondeau]

Edwin Hurwitz wrote:
In article ,
(Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Barry wrote:
On Mar 22, 7:54 pm, wrote:

Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop country
vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle presence you
can't achieve without it?
reverb is just delay right?... even without it, you could use a simple
delay
No, reverb is an infinite number of slightly different delays.

A simple delay gives you the "tape slap" vocal effect you'll hear on
Great Balls of Fire.
--scott

Careful. The majority of today's youngsters never heard of Great Balls
of Fire, let alone Jerry Lee Lewis.

Edwin

Jerry Lee Lewis would be a registered sex offender today...

[hank alrich]

Romeo Rondeau wrote:

Jerry Lee Lewis would be a registered sex offender today...

And/or a star in the new reality teeve version of All In The Family.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[hank alrich]

Barry wrote:

Mike Heins wrote:

I know that when I am singing, I can tell when there is no reverb and
it is discomfiting to have those small tonal imperfections right in
my face. Obviously I know they exist, and I can even tell when there
is a little phlegm causing a muddy tone, but it is discouraging to
hear it so well.

so turn it down, you scared to tell the man "It's too loud man.. can
you turn it down a little bit"

You are beginning to appear to be clueless. Too many magazines, not
enough highway.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[Barry]

On Mar 24, 6:35 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:

You are beginning to appear to be clueless. Too many magazines, not
enough highway.

I'm too much a pacifist

[Les Cargill]

Mike Heins wrote:

On 2007-03-23, wrote:

With an ear toward pop country, I notice that even in recordings where
the vocal sounds very up front & dry, in certain spaces where the
backing tracks drop out you can still hear some reverb decay, it's
just not particularly noticeable through most of the track.

Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop country
vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle presence you
can't achieve without it?


Is zero reverb ever used in anything any more? Didn't even the
old-time radio singers use a plate?


I hear less and less reverb on anything commercial. There
are exceptions - My Morning Jacket drenches on the 'verb,
and relatively tinny reverb at that. It's great

I believe reverb is used for two reasons -- the recording itself
and for the singer while doing the recording (or live singing for
that matter).

I know that when I am singing, I can tell when there is no reverb and
it is discomfiting to have those small tonal imperfections right in
my face. Obviously I know they exist, and I can even tell when there
is a little phlegm causing a muddy tone, but it is discouraging to
hear it so well.


--
Les Cargill

[Geoff]

Barry wrote:
On Mar 22, 7:54 pm, wrote:

Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop
country vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle
presence you can't achieve without it?

reverb is just delay right?...

Wrong.

geoff

[Laurence Payne]

On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 19:14:23 -0600, Romeo Rondeau
wrote:

Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop
country vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle
presence you can't achieve without it?
reverb is just delay right?...

Wrong.

geoff

His statement wasn't really wrong, just incomplete.

No. He said JUST delay. Wrong.

[Romeo Rondeau]

Laurence Payne wrote:
On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 19:14:23 -0600, Romeo Rondeau
wrote:

Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop
country vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle
presence you can't achieve without it?
reverb is just delay right?...
Wrong.

geoff
His statement wasn't really wrong, just incomplete.

No. He said JUST delay. Wrong.

Reverb is just delay, it's lots of delays panned, fedback and filtered.
Convolution reverb is a little different, though. Lighten up, Laurence,
it's just usenet :-)

[Romeo Rondeau]

Geoff wrote:
Barry wrote:
On Mar 22, 7:54 pm, wrote:

Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop
country vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle
presence you can't achieve without it?
reverb is just delay right?...

Wrong.

geoff

His statement wasn't really wrong, just incomplete.

[Ty Ford]

In a world where cream is just milk, yes.

Regards,

Ty Ford



--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

[Michael Wozniak]

"Ty Ford" wrote in message
. ..

In a world where cream is just milk, yes.

Regards,

Ty Ford



--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

I usually tell my students and interns that the distinction between
delay/echo and reverb is that with echo, distinct repetitions can be
perceived, whereas with reverb they cannot.

Mikey Wozniak
Nova Music Productions
this sig is haiku

[Bro Barry]

On Mar 26, 1:07 pm, "Michael Wozniak"
wrote:

I usually tell my students and interns that the distinction between
delay/echo and reverb is that with echo, distinct repetitions can be
perceived, whereas with reverb they cannot.


Students and interns?!

You must think you're all that!

[hank alrich]

Bro Barry wrote:

Michael Wozniak wrote:

I usually tell my students and interns that the distinction between
delay/echo and reverb is that with echo, distinct repetitions can be
perceived, whereas with reverb they cannot.


Students and interns?!

You must think you're all that!

He is all that. You, on the other hand, aren't all that.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[Michael Wozniak]

"Bro Barry" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Mar 26, 1:07 pm, "Michael Wozniak"
wrote:

I usually tell my students and interns that the distinction between
delay/echo and reverb is that with echo, distinct repetitions can be
perceived, whereas with reverb they cannot.


Students and interns?!

You must think you're all that!


I ask again... troll or idiot? I'm starting to think "both"...

Mikey Wozniak
Nova Music Poductions
this sig is haiku

"don't make me take the gloves off, bubba"

[Ty Ford]

On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 23:57:32 -0400, Bro Barry wrote
(in article . com):

On Mar 26, 1:07 pm, "Michael Wozniak"
wrote:

I usually tell my students and interns that the distinction between
delay/echo and reverb is that with echo, distinct repetitions can be
perceived, whereas with reverb they cannot.


Students and interns?!

You must think you're all that!


? What a strange reaction.

Ty Ford

--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

[Bro Barry]

On Mar 27, 7:37 am, Ty Ford wrote:
On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 23:57:32 -0400, Bro Barry wrote
(in article . com):

On Mar 26, 1:07 pm, "Michael Wozniak"
wrote:

I usually tell my students and interns that the distinction between
delay/echo and reverb is that with echo, distinct repetitions can be
perceived, whereas with reverb they cannot.

Students and interns?!

You must think you're all that!

? What a strange reaction.

Ty Ford

Not really. Not to real musicians.

Lemme guess, you're not really an artist???

Artists get me, while educators do not.

There are.. those who play.. artists
Those who can't play.. teach.

LOL

Just kidding!

[Bro Barry]

On Mar 26, 1:07 pm, "Michael Wozniak"
wrote:

I usually tell my students and interns that the distinction between
delay/echo and reverb is that with echo, distinct repetitions can be
perceived, whereas with reverb they cannot.

I was just messin with ya dude! Hell, maybe you DO think you are all
that.

LMAO

bet it can't play none either

[Scott Dorsey]

Bro Barry wrote:

Not really. Not to real musicians.

Lemme guess, you're not really an artist???

For the most part, the people here are engineers and not artists. This
is an audio production group.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Bro Barry]

On Mar 28, 8:01 am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

For the most part, the people here are engineers and not artists. This
is an audio production group.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

That's cool

I see you posting some good posts on here before, your name sticks out
that you know what you're doing.

I record with a home daw, my only out gear is an old fm reciever, I
have 150 watts to mix by, a good headset and cheap mic to record with.

I'm fixin to get a board and a few decent mics. I think I'm wanting a
condenser for vocals and dynamic for say a choir.

Are you full time? How did you get into this line of work

Do you look at many meters or just use your ear?

[Scott Dorsey]

Bro Barry wrote:

Are you full time? How did you get into this line of work

I started as an intern at Master Sound, cutting 45s for jukeboxes.
Now I am http://www.kludgeaudio.com

Do you look at many meters or just use your ear?

You have to use your ear AND the meters, because they tell you different
things. You can't mix with the meters, and you can't set level to tape
by ear.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Richard Crowley]

"Bro Barry" wrote ...
"Michael Wozniak" wrote:

I usually tell my students and interns that the distinction between
delay/echo and reverb is that with echo, distinct repetitions can be
perceived, whereas with reverb they cannot.


Students and interns?!

You must think you're all that!

And YOUR credentials are what, exactly?

[Richard Crowley]

"Bro Barry" wrote ...
Ty Ford wrote:
Bro Barry wrote
"Michael Wozniak" wrote:

I usually tell my students and interns that the distinction between
delay/echo and reverb is that with echo, distinct repetitions can be
perceived, whereas with reverb they cannot.

Students and interns?!

You must think you're all that!

? What a strange reaction.


Not really. Not to real musicians.

And you fancy yourself a "real musician"?
Is that your excuse for lack of social demeanor?

Lemme guess, you're not really an artist???

Try to do just a tiny amount of lurking (or at least reviewing
the Google Groups Archives) before making such offensive
remarks. Do you think that only musicians are "artists"?

Artists get me, while educators do not.

Consider finding a newsgroup where your "artists" hang out.
You're not making much of a positive impression here.

There are.. those who play.. artists
Those who can't play.. teach.
LOL
Just kidding!

Maybe you should keep your day job.