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#41
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John Atkinson wrote:
Sander deWaal wrote: "John Atkinson" said: As you are making an issue of this, Mr. Krueger, I'd be happy to email people an extract of the "Devil" recording so that they can compare it with the recording of the Debate. Just a note: the person known as "The Devil" objected to distribution of said recording by third parties, and has never given anyone permission to do so. Of course, but as the one featured on the recording, Arny Krueger can give permission if he wishes. Wrong again. I haven't been able to get it distributed to me. How can I reasonably authorize its distribution to anybody else? Again, given that the recording has only been offered for distribution since I made the HE2005 debate recording, its new availability means nothing. |
#42
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John Atkinson wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote: MINe 109 wrote: Same voice, not as nasal because it wasn't recorded over a telephone. Note that no recording is generally available for reference. It's obviously the same voice. As you are making an issue of this, Mr. Krueger, I'd be happy to email people an extract of the "Devil" recording so that they can compare it with the recording of the Debate. It helps to get everything out in the open, don't you agree. What this exchange does is show Atkinson's complicity, if not leadership of one of the better-known RAO childish conspiracies against me. Gosh, I am awareded two big chunks of Atkinson's figurative hide in just one day! How good does it get? How about proof positive that Atkinson has posted as Jamie Benchimol? ;-) |
#43
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Arny Krueger wrote: John Atkinson wrote: As you are making an issue of this, Mr. Krueger, I'd be happy to email people an extract of the "Devil" recording so that they can compare it with the recording of the Debate. Since this extract has only been available since the debate recording came into existence, it is highly suspect to say the least. No, it is the same recording of a telephone conversation that has been discussed at length on this newsgroup. I offered just an extract because it certainly isn't necessary for someone to hear the entire recording to decide if the voices sounded the same. As I said, I would only do that with your permission, Mr. Krueger. If you don't wish to give permission, then that's fine by me and that'll be the end of the subject. But again as I said, it hardly seems appropriate for you to publicly make claims about this recording while refusing to make it possible for others to hear it for themselves and thus make up their own minds. John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile |
#44
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In , Signal wrote :
"Lionel" emitted : It's obviously the same voice. As you are making an issue of this, Mr. Krueger, I'd be happy to email people an extract of the "Devil" recording so that they can compare it with the recording of the Debate. Is it legal ? It's not illegal. Even if the so-called recording has been done behind Krueger's back ? This sounds to me like an affront to private life... kind of paparazzi's means. Ooops, I forgot that tabloids are the only litterary institution in England. :-) |
#45
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Arny Krueger wrote: What's unclear about: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ "By the end of the hour, if you had been a recent arrival from another planet and had oriented yourself to life in the USA by watching action flicks and video games, you would have been certain that Arnold B. Krueger was God and John Atkinson was a pathetic girly man." I think the humor in Jason Serinus' writing is going over your head, Mr. Krueger. :-) John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile |
#46
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Arny Krueger wrote: How about proof positive that Atkinson has posted as Jamie Benchimol? ;-) Ancient Chines proverb says that when Arny Krueger gets rattled, out comes the accusations of sockpuppetting on the part of those doing the rattling. :-) No Mr. Krueger, not only have I not posted as "Jamie Benchimol," I haven't posted under any name other than my own. And despite your repeated accusations along these lines, it is fair to point out that you have never, ever offered one shred of proof to support those accusations. John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile |
#47
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wrote: wrote: wrote: Margaret von B. wrote: "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... I've bought a new car or two with money earned essentially doing public speaking Scotty. BTW, public speaking is not the same as what you do- gossip around the chair in that cosemtology shop you work in. I don't believe you. And I tell you why. For example, being such a public speaking expert you decided to go with the proven :-) Stockdale strategy: Who am I? Why am I here? Well done, Mr. Expert. Arny, when are you going to learn that your line of bragging and boasting will *never* get you anywhere. Compliments/accomplishments only count if they are aired by people who know you and have worked with you (dung beetles don't count). Not too many of those have ever come forth as far as I can tell (again, dung beetles don't count). How come, Arny? I'm really trying to be neutral about you and give you a change to prove yourself to be something else besides a hateful and bitter gasbag but you keep constantly letting me down. At your advanced age your motto still seems to be "it wasn't my fault, it was all the other guys". That *IS* embarrassing, Arny. Shape up! Cheers, Margaret Life advice from RAO's cyber-transvestite! ;-) Perhaps we can get some pearls of wisdom on life from the guy that can't manage to make it on his own and move out form his mom and dad's home. And now, gibberish from RAO's litiguous asshole. :-( Ooooh, guess I struck a nerve. hehehehe. Scott Wheeler |
#48
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Arny Krueger wrote: wrote: Margaret von B. wrote: I don't believe you. And I tell you why. For example, being such a public speaking expert you decided to go with the proven :-) Stockdale strategy: Who am I? Why am I here? Well done, Mr. Expert. What's your point? If I followed an outline that is so well proven that it is well-known, how does that make me an incompetent speaker? Arny, when are you going to learn that your line of bragging and boasting will *never* get you anywhere. It got me a free trip to NYC, and award of Atkinson's figurative tail and horns by one of his employer's own writers. Compliments/accomplishments only count if they are aired by people who know you and have worked with you (dung beetles don't count). What's unclear about: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ "By the end of the hour, if you had been a recent arrival from another planet and had oriented yourself to life in the USA by watching action flicks and video games, you would have been certain that Arnold B. Krueger was God and John Atkinson was a pathetic girly man." OMG you took that seriously. That's gonna make me laugh for the rest of the day. Thanks Arny. Not too many of those have ever come forth as far as I can tell (again, dung beetles don't count). Thanks for calling the Stereophile web site author a dung beatle. This only discredits you, Maggie. How come, Arny? Because you don't seem to know what you are talking about, Maggie. I'm really trying to be neutral about you and give you a change to prove yourself to be something else besides a hateful and bitter gasbag but you keep constantly letting me down. Let you down how, Maggie? By gaining favorable mention on Stereophile's own web site? At your advanced age your motto still seems to be "it wasn't my fault, it was all the other guys". That *IS* embarrassing, Arny. Yup, its my fault that Primedia can't follow through on their promise of a computer and a video projector - especially ironic in the midst of one of the largest nationwide if not international A/V exibitions around. Shape up! Exactly what would shaping up be like Maggie? Would it somehow be better if the Stereophile article read: "By the end of the hour, if you had been a recent arrival from another planet and had oriented yourself to life in the USA by watching action flicks and video games, you would have been certain that John Atkinson was God and Arnold B. Krueger was a pathetic girly man." LOL! |
#49
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The Little **** bones up on Kroopocrisy. Perhaps we can get some pearls of wisdom on life from the guy that can't manage to make it on his own and move out form his mom and dad's home. And now, gibberish from RAO's litiguous[sic] asshole. :-( Will you now claim that "litiguous" is a real word in Krooglish, or just admit that Scott's shot caused you to lose control of your bodily functions? This post reformatted by the Resistance, laboring tirelessly to de-Kroogerize Usenet. |
#50
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The Big **** sputtered: Same voice, not as nasal because it wasn't recorded over a telephone. Note that no recording is generally available for reference. So,Stephen can say anything that he wants to. As a co-conspirator, he's hardly a reliable source of information. The conspiracy is afoot again. Your "enemies" are plotting to get you, Arnii. This post reformatted by the Resistance, laboring tirelessly to de-Kroogerize Usenet. |
#51
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Sander deWaal said: Just a note: the person known as "The Devil" objected to distribution of said recording by third parties, and has never given anyone permission to do so. More precisely, he rescinded the permission he gave previously. |
#52
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The Little **** takes a page from the Book of Ferstlerianism. You smarmy, sleazy little prick. Goodness, such vitriol. Why are you so angry, little rodent? Oh wait, I know -- it's because you can't support yourself and have to sponge off your aged parents at the age of 47. How pathetic. |
#53
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"Margaret von B." wrote in message ... "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... I've bought a new car or two with money earned essentially doing public speaking Scotty. BTW, public speaking is not the same as what you do- gossip around the chair in that cosemtology shop you work in. I don't believe you. And I tell you why. For example, being such a public speaking expert you decided to go with the proven :-) Stockdale strategy: Who am I? Why am I here? Well done, Mr. Expert. Arny, when are you going to learn that your line of bragging and boasting will *never* get you anywhere. Compliments/accomplishments only count if they are aired by people who know you and have worked with you (dung beetles don't count). Not too many of those have ever come forth as far as I can tell (again, dung beetles don't count). How come, Arny? I'm really trying to be neutral about you and give you a change to prove yourself to be something else besides a hateful and bitter gasbag but you keep constantly letting me down. At your advanced age your motto still seems to be "it wasn't my fault, it was all the other guys". That *IS* embarrassing, Arny. Arny couldn't buy a used Yugo with his public speaking income. Show us your tax returns, Arny! ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#55
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wrote in message oups.com... Arny Krueger wrote: What's unclear about: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ "By the end of the hour, if you had been a recent arrival from another planet and had oriented yourself to life in the USA by watching action flicks and video games, you would have been certain that Arnold B. Krueger was God and John Atkinson was a pathetic girly man." OMG you took that seriously. That's gonna make me laugh for the rest of the day. Thanks Arny. Arny, thanks for admitting that you are a recent arrival from another planet. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#56
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"Lionel" wrote in message ... In . com, John Atkinson wrote : The recording of the Atkinson vs Arny debate at Home Entertainment 2005 is now available. Go to: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ Does this recording answer to *THE* question ? Nasal or not nasal ? Whiney. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#58
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John Atkinson wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote: What's unclear about: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ "By the end of the hour, if you had been a recent arrival from another planet and had oriented yourself to life in the USA by watching action flicks and video games, you would have been certain that Arnold B. Krueger was God and John Atkinson was a pathetic girly man." I think the humor in Jason Serinus' writing is going over your head, Mr. Krueger. :-) Not at all. John, how many Ahrnoldt jokes do you think I've heard in my life? |
#59
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wrote in message oups.com... Arny Krueger wrote: John Atkinson wrote: The recording of the Atkinson vs Arny debate at Home Entertainment 2005 is now available. Go to: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ The web page itself is both funny and more than a little factual: "By the end of the hour, if you had been a recent arrival from another planet and had oriented yourself to life in the USA by watching action flicks and video games, you would have been certain that Arnold B. Krueger was God and John Atkinson was a pathetic girly man." Hyperbole, anybody? Bad theology aside, I have to admit that posting this article on the web puts John Atkinson in my "Good Loser" hall of fame for all audio history, and foreseeable future times. I can now why RAO's self-proclaimed subjectivist clique are whining about the debate. Their champion got his clock cleaned, pure and simple. Not even close. I say it was a draw. a 0-0 tie. Neither speaker was effective. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#60
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Clyde Slick wrote:
wrote in message oups.com... Arny Krueger wrote: What's unclear about: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ "By the end of the hour, if you had been a recent arrival from another planet and had oriented yourself to life in the USA by watching action flicks and video games, you would have been certain that Arnold B. Krueger was God and John Atkinson was a pathetic girly man." OMG you took that seriously. That's gonna make me laugh for the rest of the day. Thanks Arny. Arny, thanks for admitting that you are a recent arrival from another planet. Guilty as charged. This explains why I'm so many years advanced ahead of the rest of you zombies, Art. |
#61
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Clyde Slick wrote:
"Margaret von B." wrote in message ... "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... I've bought a new car or two with money earned essentially doing public speaking Scotty. BTW, public speaking is not the same as what you do- gossip around the chair in that cosemtology shop you work in. I don't believe you. And I tell you why. For example, being such a public speaking expert you decided to go with the proven :-) Stockdale strategy: Who am I? Why am I here? Well done, Mr. Expert. Arny, when are you going to learn that your line of bragging and boasting will *never* get you anywhere. Compliments/accomplishments only count if they are aired by people who know you and have worked with you (dung beetles don't count). Not too many of those have ever come forth as far as I can tell (again, dung beetles don't count). How come, Arny? I'm really trying to be neutral about you and give you a change to prove yourself to be something else besides a hateful and bitter gasbag but you keep constantly letting me down. At your advanced age your motto still seems to be "it wasn't my fault, it was all the other guys". That *IS* embarrassing, Arny. Arny couldn't buy a used Yugo with his public speaking income. Actually, it was a new Pontiac. |
#62
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John Atkinson wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote: How about proof positive that Atkinson has posted as Jamie Benchimol? ;-) Ancient Chines proverb says that when Arny Krueger gets rattled, out comes the accusations of sockpuppetting on the part of those doing the rattling. :-) No Mr. Krueger, not only have I not posted as "Jamie Benchimol," I haven't posted under any name other than my own. And despite your repeated accusations along these lines, it is fair to point out that you have never, ever offered one shred of proof to support those accusations. Proof positive - Jamie Benchemol was doing British humor schtick. |
#63
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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... Looks like a Red Herring to me. "at least" it doesn't smell like one of your Brown Turds. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#64
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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... John Atkinson wrote: Arny Krueger wrote: MINe 109 wrote: Same voice, not as nasal because it wasn't recorded over a telephone. Note that no recording is generally available for reference. It's obviously the same voice. As you are making an issue of this, Mr. Krueger, I'd be happy to email people an extract of the "Devil" recording so that they can compare it with the recording of the Debate. It helps to get everything out in the open, don't you agree. What this exchange does is show Atkinson's complicity, if not leadership of one of the better-known RAO childish conspiracies against me. See a shrink. Please. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#65
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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... Clyde Slick wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Arny Krueger wrote: What's unclear about: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ "By the end of the hour, if you had been a recent arrival from another planet and had oriented yourself to life in the USA by watching action flicks and video games, you would have been certain that Arnold B. Krueger was God and John Atkinson was a pathetic girly man." OMG you took that seriously. That's gonna make me laugh for the rest of the day. Thanks Arny. Arny, thanks for admitting that you are a recent arrival from another planet. Guilty as charged. This explains why I'm so many years advanced ahead of the rest of you zombies, Art. Well, it does explain why you can't speak English. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#66
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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... Clyde Slick wrote: "Margaret von B." wrote in message ... "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... I've bought a new car or two with money earned essentially doing public speaking Scotty. BTW, public speaking is not the same as what you do- gossip around the chair in that cosemtology shop you work in. I don't believe you. And I tell you why. For example, being such a public speaking expert you decided to go with the proven :-) Stockdale strategy: Who am I? Why am I here? Well done, Mr. Expert. Arny, when are you going to learn that your line of bragging and boasting will *never* get you anywhere. Compliments/accomplishments only count if they are aired by people who know you and have worked with you (dung beetles don't count). Not too many of those have ever come forth as far as I can tell (again, dung beetles don't count). How come, Arny? I'm really trying to be neutral about you and give you a change to prove yourself to be something else besides a hateful and bitter gasbag but you keep constantly letting me down. At your advanced age your motto still seems to be "it wasn't my fault, it was all the other guys". That *IS* embarrassing, Arny. Arny couldn't buy a used Yugo with his public speaking income. Actually, it was a new Pontiac. Prove it!! ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#67
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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... John Atkinson wrote: Arny Krueger wrote: How about proof positive that Atkinson has posted as Jamie Benchimol? ;-) Ancient Chines proverb says that when Arny Krueger gets rattled, out comes the accusations of sockpuppetting on the part of those doing the rattling. :-) No Mr. Krueger, not only have I not posted as "Jamie Benchimol," I haven't posted under any name other than my own. And despite your repeated accusations along these lines, it is fair to point out that you have never, ever offered one shred of proof to support those accusations. Proof positive - Jamie Benchemol was doing British humor schtick. Very good work. That one puts you on better logical ground than all of your pcabx testing. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#68
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Arny Krueger wrote:
John Atkinson wrote: The recording of the Atkinson vs Arny debate at Home Entertainment 2005 is now available. Go to: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ The web page itself is both funny and more than a little factual: "By the end of the hour, if you had been a recent arrival from another planet and had oriented yourself to life in the USA by watching action flicks and video games, you would have been certain that Arnold B. Krueger was God and John Atkinson was a pathetic girly man." Hyperbole, anybody? Bad theology aside, I have to admit that posting this article on the web puts John Atkinson in my "Good Loser" hall of fame for all audio history, and foreseeable future times. Mr. Serinus seems to be still smarting from the effects of that cable ABX. Reality checks can do that. -- -S It's not my business to do intelligent work. -- D. Rumsfeld, testifying before the House Armed Services Committee |
#69
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whosbest54 wrote:
In article . com, says... The recording of the Atkinson vs Arny debate at Home Entertainment 2005 is now available. Go to: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile John, thank you for hosting the debate and posting the audio recording. Contrary to what Arny has said, I don't think either you or he 'won' or 'lost'. Both of you made your points clearly. It was easy to understand how your views differ. My views on the announced topic of the debate have been posted to my web page for years and are generally in line with Arny's. Those views aren't modified in any way by what I've heard nor by Arny's behavior in this newsgroup. John, again, your story about what you did with your amps in your 20's was interesting, but your decision making wasn't based on any scientific method, but on your opinion/feelings. Good, someone else noticed! ; And yes, there _may_ have been problems with the test you did that originally led you to purchase the SS amp. Arny did point out that methods have improved and there are practical methods for doing the tests. Not that there's anything wrong with the straight listening you did for your amp decision, if that's what you want to do and it makes you happy. But to use is as a basis for discounting DBTs is simply...questionable. I choose to rely on more scientific methods to decern _real_ differences in equipment. And, as I say on my web page, often those differences aren't important, even if they exist. It's interesting that simply changing the volume level of rig by a few dB, or moving the speakers by an inch or two, can swamp whatever relatively small differences exist between amps or CD players. -- -S It's not my business to do intelligent work. -- D. Rumsfeld, testifying before the House Armed Services Committee |
#70
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Steven Sullivan wrote: whosbest54 wrote: In article . com, says... The recording of the Atkinson vs Arny debate at Home Entertainment 2005 is now available. Go to: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile John, thank you for hosting the debate and posting the audio recording. Contrary to what Arny has said, I don't think either you or he 'won' or 'lost'. Both of you made your points clearly. It was easy to understand how your views differ. My views on the announced topic of the debate have been posted to my web page for years and are generally in line with Arny's. Those views aren't modified in any way by what I've heard nor by Arny's behavior in this newsgroup. John, again, your story about what you did with your amps in your 20's was interesting, but your decision making wasn't based on any scientific method, but on your opinion/feelings. Good, someone else noticed! ; The horror! Decision making based on one's own opinion. That has to be stopped!!!! But please do tell us what is your idea of a good alternative in this particular situation to buying something based on one's opinions? And yes, there _may_ have been problems with the test you did that originally led you to purchase the SS amp. Arny did point out that methods have improved and there are practical methods for doing the tests. One thing that has not changed since then is the objectivist mantra. Not that there's anything wrong with the straight listening you did for your amp decision, if that's what you want to do and it makes you happy. But to use is as a basis for discounting DBTs is simply...questionable. I agree with that. But it is a completely valid reason for his choice to buy the tube amp. But alas, this is the very thing you guys decry when push comes to shove. You loathe reviews that draw the same conclusions. I choose to rely on more scientific methods to decern _real_ differences in equipment. And, as I say on my web page, often those differences aren't important, even if they exist. It's interesting that simply changing the volume level of rig by a few dB, or moving the speakers by an inch or two, can swamp whatever relatively small differences exist between amps or CD players. No one has ever suggested that one not optimise listening levels or speaker position. No one has said don't do this but buy an expensive amp instead. Scott Wheeler |
#71
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"Clyde Slick" wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com... Arny Krueger wrote: John Atkinson wrote: The recording of the Atkinson vs Arny debate at Home Entertainment 2005 is now available. Go to: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ The web page itself is both funny and more than a little factual: "By the end of the hour, if you had been a recent arrival from another planet and had oriented yourself to life in the USA by watching action flicks and video games, you would have been certain that Arnold B. Krueger was God and John Atkinson was a pathetic girly man." Hyperbole, anybody? Bad theology aside, I have to admit that posting this article on the web puts John Atkinson in my "Good Loser" hall of fame for all audio history, and foreseeable future times. I can now why RAO's self-proclaimed subjectivist clique are whining about the debate. Their champion got his clock cleaned, pure and simple. Not even close. I say it was a draw. a 0-0 tie. Neither speaker was effective. Agreed, but if you consider comparing Arny's argument to his schtick on RAO.... he clearly failed to support his position. In fact he apparently left John quite perplexed by agreeing that differences are a matter of degree. His argument became a semantic one. ScottW |
#72
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wrote
I was wondering just where that "squeaky", "whiny", "high-pitched", etc., voice of Arny's all the "Normals" claimed to have heard on "The Tape" went. It didn't go anywhere. Same voice. He doesn't sound like a teenaged nerd to you? Do you have voice issues as well? |
#73
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wrote: Steven Sullivan wrote: whosbest54 wrote: Not that there's anything wrong with the straight listening you did for your amp decision, if that's what you want to do and it makes you happy. But to use is as a basis for discounting DBTs is simply... questionable. I agree with that. But it is a completely valid reason for his choice to buy the tube amp. Hi Scott, what everyone seems to be ignoring is my point for mentioning this anecdote. Which was that all the non-sighted factors worked _against_ my becoming dissatisfied with the Quad. The solid-state amp was cheaper, smaller, more powerful, ran cooler, and offered, in my opinion, better industrial design. So, if these factors were going to have any influence on my listening, as the "objectivists" repeatedly claim, they would all have persuaded me that the amplifier was fine. However, as my increasing disatisfaction was real and I was having to work harder to appreciate the music through the amplifier, it was this cognitive dissonance that proved to be the tipping point at which I changed from a hard-line objectivist -- see an editorial I wrote in a 1978 issue of HFN for an example -- into someone who realized the value of listening. John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile |
#74
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ScottW wrote:
Agreed, but if you consider comparing Arny's argument to his schtick on RAO.... he clearly failed to support his position. Thanks for showing that you can't read very well, Scott. You got it when you heard me say it on the recording, despite all the times you failted to get it when I posted it on RAO. In fact he apparently left John quite perplexed by agreeing that differences are a matter of degree. No, I asserted that unlike what Stereopile and the rest say, some things sound different, some things don't. His argument became a semantic one. That's what it has always been, once the HE press posturing is cut away. |
#75
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wrote:
Lionel wrote: In . com, John Atkinson wrote : The recording of the Atkinson vs Arny debate at Home Entertainment 2005 is now available. Go to: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ Does this recording answer to *THE* question ? Nasal or not nasal ? I was wondering just where that "squeaky", "whiny", "high-pitched", etc., voice of Arny's all the "Normals" claimed to have heard on "The Tape" went. Among the possibilities: a)"The Tape" never existed at all b)The "Normals" lied about the sound of Arny's voice on "The Tape" c)The psychotic posting as "the Devil" altered Arny's voice on "The Tape" d)"The Tape" existed but was a complete fabrication by "the Davil" that had absolutely no basis in reality, but was merely "the Devil" playing both parts and, perhaps, using a digital pitch change device to alter the "Arny" parts I'm going with "d". ;-) Given that Atkinson has stepped forward as worldwide distributor of the tape... |
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Signal wrote:
"Lionel" emitted : It's obviously the same voice. As you are making an issue of this, Mr. Krueger, I'd be happy to email people an extract of the "Devil" recording so that they can compare it with the recording of the Debate. Is it legal ? It's not illegal. Even if the so-called recording has been done behind Krueger's back ? Correct. More like the recording came out of someone's back-side. |
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John Atkinson wrote: wrote: Steven Sullivan wrote: whosbest54 wrote: Not that there's anything wrong with the straight listening you did for your amp decision, if that's what you want to do and it makes you happy. But to use is as a basis for discounting DBTs is simply... questionable. I agree with that. But it is a completely valid reason for his choice to buy the tube amp. Hi Scott, what everyone seems to be ignoring is my point for mentioning this anecdote. Which was that all the non-sighted factors worked _against_ my becoming dissatisfied with the Quad. The solid-state amp was cheaper, smaller, more powerful, ran cooler, and offered, in my opinion, better industrial design. So, if these factors were going to have any influence on my listening, as the "objectivists" repeatedly claim, they would all have persuaded me that the amplifier was fine. However, as my increasing disatisfaction was real and I was having to work harder to appreciate the music through the amplifier, it was this cognitive dissonance that proved to be the tipping point at which I changed from a hard-line objectivist -- see an editorial I wrote in a 1978 issue of HFN for an example -- into someone who realized the value of listening. I think the fair point to make is that you chose one of two possibilities. You didn't *prove* that you heard a real audible difference. I think the problem objectivists face in your case is that your decision was a reasonable one even if it wasn't scientifically supported. You picked what you saw as the most likely of the two possibilities. The *real* problem I see for objectivists is that your solution solved your problem regardless of which possibility was the true underlying reality. I have yet to see any objectivist offer you a better alternative than the one you took when you bought the tube amp and started enjoying your stereo again. Regardless of what they believe was the real cause and effect. Scott Wheeler |
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John Atkinson wrote:
wrote: Steven Sullivan wrote: whosbest54 wrote: Not that there's anything wrong with the straight listening you did for your amp decision, if that's what you want to do and it makes you happy. But to use is as a basis for discounting DBTs is simply... questionable. I agree with that. But it is a completely valid reason for his choice to buy the tube amp. Hi Scott, what everyone seems to be ignoring is my point for mentioning this anecdote. Which was that all the non-sighted factors worked _against_ my becoming dissatisfied with the Quad. Horsefeathers. The solid-state amp was cheaper, smaller, more powerful, ran cooler, and offered, in my opinion, better industrial design. Failure to note the endemic high end predjudice against of all of these factors noted. So, if these factors were going to have any influence on my listening, as the "objectivists" repeatedly claim, they would all have persuaded me that the amplifier was fine. If you believe this then you think that the SET amp darlings of the high end are cheaper, smaller, more powerful, and run cooler. We can haggle about the industrial design element, because that means different things to different people. However, as my increasing disatisfaction was real and I was having to work harder to appreciate the music through the amplifier, So, if I do a PCABX test showing that the Quad 405 is in fact a colored amplifer, what does that mean? it was this cognitive dissonance that proved to be the tipping point at which I changed from a hard-line objectivist -- see an editorial I wrote in a 1978 issue of HFN for an example -- into someone who realized the value of listening. The false claim here is that objectivists don't care about listening. This totally ignores the well-knkown role that listening tests play in the realm of objectivist equipment evaluations, such as those promoted by Stan Lip****z, Floyd Toole, David Clark, Tom Nousaine, etc. |
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John Atkinson wrote:
The recording of the Atkinson vs Arny debate at Home Entertainment 2005 is now available. Go to: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ Will there be a video version of this or not? Would be nice to see as well as hear these proceedings. |
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Arny Krueger wrote: John Atkinson wrote: wrote: Steven Sullivan wrote: whosbest54 wrote: Not that there's anything wrong with the straight listening you did for your amp decision, if that's what you want to do and it makes you happy. But to use is as a basis for discounting DBTs is simply... questionable. I agree with that. But it is a completely valid reason for his choice to buy the tube amp. Hi Scott, what everyone seems to be ignoring is my point for mentioning this anecdote. Which was that all the non-sighted factors worked _against_ my becoming dissatisfied with the Quad. Horsefeathers. How sad, another objectivist is forced to deny circumstances. Horsefeathers is a very compelling argument Arny. Use it on allsubjectivists when they relate their experiences to you. The converts will just pile up. The solid-state amp was cheaper, smaller, more powerful, ran cooler, and offered, in my opinion, better industrial design. Failure to note the endemic high end predjudice against of all of these factors noted. Failure to acknowledge JA's position on those factors at the time. you are now forced to call him a liar or claim you know what was in his head better than he did. All in light of the fact that JA's actions spoke loudly about his biases at that time. So, if these factors were going to have any influence on my listening, as the "objectivists" repeatedly claim, they would all have persuaded me that the amplifier was fine. If you believe this then you think that the SET amp darlings of the high end are cheaper, smaller, more powerful, and run cooler. We can haggle about the industrial design element, because that means different things to different people. You are just chasing your tail now. you can'tr deal wih the facts as they were presented. You have to now invent facts. That is the problem objectivists face with this anecdote. However, as my increasing disatisfaction was real and I was having to work harder to appreciate the music through the amplifier, So, if I do a PCABX test showing that the Quad 405 is in fact a colored amplifer, what does that mean? Means he was right all along on all acounts of this anecdote. It would also mean that the objectivists of the time had their collective headfs up their db asses. If that is the case then what has changed in the objectivist camp since then? it was this cognitive dissonance that proved to be the tipping point at which I changed from a hard-line objectivist -- see an editorial I wrote in a 1978 issue of HFN for an example -- into someone who realized the value of listening. The false claim here is that objectivists don't care about listening. This totally ignores the well-knkown role that listening tests play in the realm of objectivist equipment evaluations, such as those promoted by Stan Lip****z, Floyd Toole, David Clark, Tom Nousaine, etc. Scott Wheeler |
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