[Ian Bell[_2_]]

I have seen many a pro audio review where the reviewer has siad
something like 'build quality was exceptional - plenty of WIMA caps'
which implies in some audio circles at least some WIMA caps are thought
to be good.

Their 400V offering seems to be part of the MKS4 range. They are not
expensive, nor huge and have values up to 1uF. Are they good for tube
audio designs?

Cheers

Ian

[Peter Wieck]

On Oct 19, 3:03*pm, Ian Bell wrote:
I have seen many a pro audio review where the reviewer has siad
something like 'build quality was exceptional - plenty of WIMA caps'
which implies in some audio circles at least some WIMA caps are thought
to be good.

Their 400V offering seems to be part of the MKS4 range. They are not
expensive, nor huge and have values up to 1uF. Are they good for tube
audio designs?

Cheers

Ian

Ian:

I have used WIMA caps and compared them to actual Orange Drops
(Sprague or Vishay-Sprague) and my usual run of no-name basic film
caps. And my tester does so at actual working voltages.

What I have found:

WIMA tend to test closest to their actual rating, consistently within
1% or 2% - about the measurement limits of my tester. A spread of
something around 4%
The no-names are consistent within 5%, but on the low side. A spread
of something around 5%.
The orange drops are consistent within 5%, high or low. A spread of
something around 10%.

About 0.5% of my no-names are defective (low resistance or open) as-
delivered - comes to perhaps 10 caps over time - and why I *still*
test every one before installing it.

I have experienced no defective WIMA caps, but I am still on my first
50 or so.
I have experienced no defective orange drops over about 200+. I have
experienced one (1) mislabeled orange drop - labeled at 100V, actual
600V. Could have been bad printing. I did not install it, but it still
serves as my antenna dummy for aligning radios - no voltage question
there.

None of the above have failed after testing and installation - at
least to my knowledge.

Now, after all that:

My *favorite* film caps are made by Illinois - and my choice for
critical applications. They test as well as the WIMAs and in bulk run
about the same price. why are they my favorite? Perhaps because I was
born in Illinois, perhaps because they do test very well and are
relatively cheap - but for no electrically or electronically important
reason all other things being equal.

http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/products/film.asp

They may be purchased he

http://www.alliedelec.com/

For the most part these days, caps is caps is caps. One may pay more
if one chooses - but there is very seldom any good reason to do so
after a very basic "certain point".

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Ian Iveson]

Ian Bell wrote:

I have seen many a pro audio review where the reviewer has
siad something like 'build quality was exceptional - plenty
of WIMA caps' which implies in some audio circles at least
some WIMA caps are thought to be good.

Their 400V offering seems to be part of the MKS4 range.
They are not expensive, nor huge and have values up to
1uF. Are they good for tube audio designs?


Depends a bit on what you think of polyester. More
distortion than with polypropylene, and perhaps a harsher
mix, if you could hear it. Some say they can, but the
measurable difference is tiny and there are sources of error
in any comparison.

Of greater importance is quality of construction: stuff like
how consistent the film, how tightly wound, how the leads
are attached, and how good the encapsulation. Reputation for
reliable performance in audio applications is probably as
good a guide as any. Peter's contribution is helpful. A
mechanically sound cap is less likely to be microphonic or
suffer from other effects of poor internal connections, and
is also more likely to be reliable in service and closer to
its nominal value.

Careful manufacture with good materials is likely to be more
expensive. As ever, you have to choose where to place
yourself on the path of diminishing returns.

Ian

[Peter Wieck]

On Oct 20, 9:44*am, François Yves Le Gal wrote:
On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 04:10:30 -0700 (PDT), Peter Wieck wrote:
Perhaps because I was born in Illinois

The caps are now mainly made in Asia and have today very little in common
with Illinois except their brand.

Sure. My point was that a cap that tests properly, is appropriate for
the intended use and is reasonably well made will be differentiated
from another cap within tolerance, appropriate and reasonably well
made for other-than-functional purposes.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Eeyore]

Ian Bell wrote:

I have seen many a pro audio review where the reviewer has siad
something like 'build quality was exceptional - plenty of WIMA caps'
which implies in some audio circles at least some WIMA caps are thought
to be good.

Their 400V offering seems to be part of the MKS4 range. They are not
expensive, nor huge and have values up to 1uF. Are they good for tube
audio designs?

MKS4s have a polyester dielectric IIRC.

Do you think that WIMA's polyester is better than anyone else's ? They
don't make it themselves you know, the film comes from big chemical
manufacturers like BASF and DuPont (who call it mylar - their trade name).

Aside from really cheap Chinese ****, brand name snobbery is idiotic. WIMA
are certainly more expensive than most though if you think that's good.

Graham

[Eeyore]

Ian Iveson wrote:

Depends a bit on what you think of polyester. More
distortion than with polypropylene, and perhaps a harsher
mix, if you could hear it. Some say they can, but the
measurable difference is tiny and there are sources of error
in any comparison.

Oh for God's sake.

Iveson excels in his stupidity once again. Coupling caps have
essentially a constant charge unless the design is REALLY **** and since
the charge remains the same, there's no possibility it can affect the
sound.

And if you can't work out why, I suggest you stop posting your inane
comments here.

Graham

[Eeyore]

Ian Iveson wrote:

Of greater importance is quality of construction: stuff like
how consistent the film, how tightly wound, how the leads
are attached, and how good the encapsulation. Reputation for
reliable performance in audio applications is probably as
good a guide as any. Peter's contribution is helpful. A
mechanically sound cap is less likely to be microphonic or
suffer from other effects of poor internal connections, and
is also more likely to be reliable in service and closer to
its nominal value.

The only microphonic caps I've met are certain ceramics (avoid), the
effect is well known and really cheap and nasty electrolytics (avoid by
using bog standard Panasonic or equivalent quality brand). Panasonics
are usually competitively priced amongst the top manufacturers but then
again I had no trouble with Samwha either who are somewhat cheaper.

Graham

[Eeyore]

Peter Wieck wrote:

François Yves Le Gal wrote:
Peter Wieck wrote:
Perhaps because I was born in Illinois

The caps are now mainly made in Asia and have today very little in common
with Illinois except their brand.

Sure. My point was that a cap that tests properly, is appropriate for
the intended use and is reasonably well made will be differentiated
from another cap within tolerance, appropriate and reasonably well
made for other-than-functional purposes.

If you want a close tolerance cap, BUY ONE that's marked as such. Or if you have
to (and sometimes there's no choice) then select.

It's irrelevant for signal coupling anyway as long as the design is competent.

Graham

[Peter Wieck]

On Oct 20, 10:37*am, Eeyore
wrote:

If you want a close tolerance cap, BUY ONE that's marked as such. Or if you
have to (and sometimes there's no choice) then select.

With respect, I have found that capacitor "markings" are no better
than they need to be. So, the selection process is required in any
case if either a specific value or some sort of matching is important.
Which was my other point had you read for content. And, for the
record, selecting/matching should be done at operating voltage for
best results.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Ian Iveson]

"Eeyore" wrote in
message ...


Ian Iveson wrote:

Depends a bit on what you think of polyester. More
distortion than with polypropylene, and perhaps a harsher
mix, if you could hear it. Some say they can, but the
measurable difference is tiny and there are sources of
error
in any comparison.

Oh for God's sake.

Iveson excels in his stupidity once again. Coupling caps
have
essentially a constant charge unless the design is REALLY
**** and since
the charge remains the same, there's no possibility it can
affect the
sound.

And if you can't work out why, I suggest you stop posting
your inane
comments here.


Good engineers can read. Clearly you aren't.

Ian

[Patrick Turner]

Ian Bell wrote:

I have seen many a pro audio review where the reviewer has siad
something like 'build quality was exceptional - plenty of WIMA caps'
which implies in some audio circles at least some WIMA caps are thought
to be good.

Their 400V offering seems to be part of the MKS4 range. They are not
expensive, nor huge and have values up to 1uF. Are they good for tube
audio designs?

Cheers

Ian

The MKP polypropylene by Wima are regarded as a good default cap for
most tube apps. Not the polyester though.

Patrick Turner.

[Ian Bell[_2_]]

Peter Wieck wrote:
On Oct 19, 3:03 pm, Ian Bell wrote:
I have seen many a pro audio review where the reviewer has siad
something like 'build quality was exceptional - plenty of WIMA caps'
which implies in some audio circles at least some WIMA caps are thought
to be good.

Their 400V offering seems to be part of the MKS4 range. They are not
expensive, nor huge and have values up to 1uF. Are they good for tube
audio designs?

Cheers

Ian

Ian:

I have used WIMA caps and compared them to actual Orange Drops
(Sprague or Vishay-Sprague) and my usual run of no-name basic film
caps. And my tester does so at actual working voltages.

What I have found:

WIMA tend to test closest to their actual rating, consistently within
1% or 2% - about the measurement limits of my tester. A spread of
something around 4%
The no-names are consistent within 5%, but on the low side. A spread
of something around 5%.
The orange drops are consistent within 5%, high or low. A spread of
something around 10%.

About 0.5% of my no-names are defective (low resistance or open) as-
delivered - comes to perhaps 10 caps over time - and why I *still*
test every one before installing it.

I have experienced no defective WIMA caps, but I am still on my first
50 or so.
I have experienced no defective orange drops over about 200+. I have
experienced one (1) mislabeled orange drop - labeled at 100V, actual
600V. Could have been bad printing. I did not install it, but it still
serves as my antenna dummy for aligning radios - no voltage question
there.

None of the above have failed after testing and installation - at
least to my knowledge.

Now, after all that:

My *favorite* film caps are made by Illinois - and my choice for
critical applications. They test as well as the WIMAs and in bulk run
about the same price. why are they my favorite? Perhaps because I was
born in Illinois, perhaps because they do test very well and are
relatively cheap - but for no electrically or electronically important
reason all other things being equal.

http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/products/film.asp

They may be purchased he

http://www.alliedelec.com/

For the most part these days, caps is caps is caps. One may pay more
if one chooses - but there is very seldom any good reason to do so
after a very basic "certain point".

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


Thanks Peter, very useful info. I am in the UK so I am checking out
Richardson Electronics who seem to be the European distributors for
Illinois.

Cheers

Ian

[Eeyore]

Peter Wieck wrote:

Eeyore wrote:

If you want a close tolerance cap, BUY ONE that's marked as such. Or if you
have to (and sometimes there's no choice) then select.

With respect, I have found that capacitor "markings" are no better
than they need to be. So, the selection process is required in any
case if either a specific value or some sort of matching is important.
Which was my other point had you read for content. And, for the
record, selecting/matching should be done at operating voltage for
best results.

Ideally selection should be avoidable by design.

Want a reasonably accurate active filter or RIAA EQ for example ? Use 5% caps and
1% Rs for an inexpensive implementation. NOT 5% Rs.

Graham

[Eeyore]

Ian Iveson wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote
Ian Iveson wrote:

Depends a bit on what you think of polyester. More
distortion than with polypropylene, and perhaps a harsher
mix, if you could hear it. Some say they can, but the
measurable difference is tiny and there are sources of
error
in any comparison.

Oh for God's sake.

Iveson excels in his stupidity once again. Coupling caps
have essentially a constant charge unless the design is REALLY
**** and since the charge remains the same, there's no possibility
it can
affect the sound.

And if you can't work out why, I suggest you stop posting
your inane comments here.

Good engineers can read. Clearly you aren't.

What pro-audio equipment have YOU ever designed ?

Graham

[Eeyore]

Patrick Turner wrote:

Ian Bell wrote:

I have seen many a pro audio review where the reviewer has siad
something like 'build quality was exceptional - plenty of WIMA caps'
which implies in some audio circles at least some WIMA caps are thought
to be good.

Their 400V offering seems to be part of the MKS4 range. They are not
expensive, nor huge and have values up to 1uF. Are they good for tube
audio designs?

The MKP polypropylene by Wima are regarded as a good default cap for
most tube apps. Not the polyester though.

What do you have against polyester ?

Graham

[Eeyore]

Peter Wieck wrote:

For the most part these days, caps is caps is caps. One may pay more
if one chooses - but there is very seldom any good reason to do so
after a very basic "certain point".

Now there's a truth !

Graham

[Mikkel C. Simonsen]

Ian Bell wrote:

I have seen many a pro audio review where the reviewer has siad
something like 'build quality was exceptional - plenty of WIMA caps'
which implies in some audio circles at least some WIMA caps are thought
to be good.

Standard brand name snobbery

Wimas are fine, but so are Philips/BC, Ero, and many others. Wimas are
usually quite a bit more expensive than other brands...

I buy many of my caps from Electel (in Germany) - they used to be called
Koweg/Kondensatorenwerk Görlitz.

Best regards,

Mikkel C. Simonsen

[Ian Bell[_2_]]

Eeyore wrote:

Ian Bell wrote:

I have seen many a pro audio review where the reviewer has siad
something like 'build quality was exceptional - plenty of WIMA caps'
which implies in some audio circles at least some WIMA caps are thought
to be good.

Their 400V offering seems to be part of the MKS4 range. They are not
expensive, nor huge and have values up to 1uF. Are they good for tube
audio designs?

MKS4s have a polyester dielectric IIRC.

Do you think that WIMA's polyester is better than anyone else's ? They
don't make it themselves you know, the film comes from big chemical
manufacturers like BASF and DuPont (who call it mylar - their trade name).


I don't know if it is any better than anyone else's. I don't kn ow if
polyester is better than any other dielectric - that;s why I am asking.
WIMA just happen to be readily available to me.

Aside from really cheap Chinese ****, brand name snobbery is idiotic. WIMA
are certainly more expensive than most though if you think that's good.


I don't care who makes them so long as they are good. WIMA are well
known in the UK, easy to obtain and not grossly overpriced like many
audiophile types. I was hoping for some practical advice.

Cheers

Ian

[Ian Bell[_2_]]

Eeyore wrote:

Patrick Turner wrote:

Ian Bell wrote:
I have seen many a pro audio review where the reviewer has siad
something like 'build quality was exceptional - plenty of WIMA caps'
which implies in some audio circles at least some WIMA caps are thought
to be good.

Their 400V offering seems to be part of the MKS4 range. They are not
expensive, nor huge and have values up to 1uF. Are they good for tube
audio designs?
The MKP polypropylene by Wima are regarded as a good default cap for
most tube apps. Not the polyester though.

What do you have against polyester ?

Graham


The only difference I can see (from the WIMA data) is that the
dissipation factor of polypropylene is about an order of magnitude lower
than polyester.

Cheers

Ian

[jh]

Ian Bell schrieb:
Eeyore wrote:

Ian Bell wrote:

I have seen many a pro audio review where the reviewer has siad
something like 'build quality was exceptional - plenty of WIMA caps'
which implies in some audio circles at least some WIMA caps are thought
to be good.

Their 400V offering seems to be part of the MKS4 range. They are not
expensive, nor huge and have values up to 1uF. Are they good for tube
audio designs?

MKS4s have a polyester dielectric IIRC.

Do you think that WIMA's polyester is better than anyone else's ? They
don't make it themselves you know, the film comes from big chemical
manufacturers like BASF and DuPont (who call it mylar - their trade
name).


I don't know if it is any better than anyone else's. I don't kn ow if
polyester is better than any other dielectric - that;s why I am asking.
WIMA just happen to be readily available to me.

Aside from really cheap Chinese ****, brand name snobbery is idiotic.
WIMA
are certainly more expensive than most though if you think that's good.


I don't care who makes them so long as they are good. WIMA are well
known in the UK, easy to obtain and not grossly overpriced like many
audiophile types. I was hoping for some practical advice.

Cheers

Ian

Hi Ian,

IMHO their only problem is that they are the industry standard and not
bootique. They are very easily available, so something has to be wrong
with them....
They have short leads, so the are not so easy to use with PTP or
fender-like tag boards. In the guitar amp region, they have been
successfully used by paul rivera and in high end hifi there is at least
klimo in germany. On my own - i like them in my own mike preamps. The
only draw back are the short leads, but there are simple workarounds..

Yes I like them

MKS4, MKP4 and MKP10

regards

Jochen

[Ian Bell[_2_]]

jh wrote:
Ian Bell schrieb:
Eeyore wrote:

Ian Bell wrote:

I have seen many a pro audio review where the reviewer has siad
something like 'build quality was exceptional - plenty of WIMA caps'
which implies in some audio circles at least some WIMA caps are thought
to be good.

Their 400V offering seems to be part of the MKS4 range. They are not
expensive, nor huge and have values up to 1uF. Are they good for tube
audio designs?

MKS4s have a polyester dielectric IIRC.

Do you think that WIMA's polyester is better than anyone else's ? They
don't make it themselves you know, the film comes from big chemical
manufacturers like BASF and DuPont (who call it mylar - their trade
name).


I don't know if it is any better than anyone else's. I don't kn ow if
polyester is better than any other dielectric - that;s why I am
asking. WIMA just happen to be readily available to me.

Aside from really cheap Chinese ****, brand name snobbery is idiotic.
WIMA
are certainly more expensive than most though if you think that's good.


I don't care who makes them so long as they are good. WIMA are well
known in the UK, easy to obtain and not grossly overpriced like many
audiophile types. I was hoping for some practical advice.

Cheers

Ian

Hi Ian,

IMHO their only problem is that they are the industry standard and not
bootique. They are very easily available, so something has to be wrong
with them....
They have short leads, so the are not so easy to use with PTP or
fender-like tag boards. In the guitar amp region, they have been
successfully used by paul rivera and in high end hifi there is at least
klimo in germany. On my own - i like them in my own mike preamps. The
only draw back are the short leads, but there are simple workarounds..

Yes I like them

MKS4, MKP4 and MKP10

regards

Jochen


Thanks Jochen, that was useful. My intended use is also for a mic preamp
but it will be on a PCB so the short lead length is not a problem.

Cheers

Ian

[Eeyore]

Ian Bell wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Ian Bell wrote:

I have seen many a pro audio review where the reviewer has siad
something like 'build quality was exceptional - plenty of WIMA caps'
which implies in some audio circles at least some WIMA caps are thought
to be good.

Their 400V offering seems to be part of the MKS4 range. They are not
expensive, nor huge and have values up to 1uF. Are they good for tube
audio designs?

MKS4s have a polyester dielectric IIRC.

Do you think that WIMA's polyester is better than anyone else's ? They
don't make it themselves you know, the film comes from big chemical
manufacturers like BASF and DuPont (who call it mylar - their trade name).

I don't know if it is any better than anyone else's. I don't kn ow if
polyester is better than any other dielectric - that;s why I am asking.
WIMA just happen to be readily available to me.

Aside from really cheap Chinese ****, brand name snobbery is idiotic. WIMA
are certainly more expensive than most though if you think that's good.

I don't care who makes them so long as they are good. WIMA are well
known in the UK, easy to obtain and not grossly overpriced like many
audiophile types. I was hoping for some practical advice.

High voltage caps are somewhat rarer these days than was once the case. WIMA are
fine. They have a reputation for longevity/quality but then do various other
manufacturers.

What value(s) voltage and form factor (axial or radial) are you looking for ?

Graham

[Eeyore]

Ian Bell wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Patrick Turner wrote:
Ian Bell wrote:

I have seen many a pro audio review where the reviewer has siad
something like 'build quality was exceptional - plenty of WIMA caps'
which implies in some audio circles at least some WIMA caps are thought
to be good.

Their 400V offering seems to be part of the MKS4 range. They are not
expensive, nor huge and have values up to 1uF. Are they good for tube
audio designs?
The MKP polypropylene by Wima are regarded as a good default cap for
most tube apps. Not the polyester though.

What do you have against polyester ?

The only difference I can see (from the WIMA data) is that the
dissipation factor of polypropylene is about an order of magnitude lower
than polyester.

And irrelevant here. I like polypropylene for *pulse* circuits. No need for
audio.

Graham

[Eeyore]

"Mikkel C. Simonsen" wrote:

Ian Bell wrote:

I have seen many a pro audio review where the reviewer has siad
something like 'build quality was exceptional - plenty of WIMA caps'
which implies in some audio circles at least some WIMA caps are thought
to be good.

Standard brand name snobbery

Wimas are fine, but so are Philips/BC, Ero, and many others. Wimas are
usually quite a bit more expensive than other brands...

Agreed 100%. The old Philips passives division is now *Vishay* BC components
btw. You really can't go far wrong with any polyester cap say from the
Farnell catalogue.

Graham

[Ian Bell[_2_]]

Eeyore wrote:

Ian Bell wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Ian Bell wrote:

I have seen many a pro audio review where the reviewer has siad
something like 'build quality was exceptional - plenty of WIMA caps'
which implies in some audio circles at least some WIMA caps are thought
to be good.

Their 400V offering seems to be part of the MKS4 range. They are not
expensive, nor huge and have values up to 1uF. Are they good for tube
audio designs?
MKS4s have a polyester dielectric IIRC.

Do you think that WIMA's polyester is better than anyone else's ? They
don't make it themselves you know, the film comes from big chemical
manufacturers like BASF and DuPont (who call it mylar - their trade name).
I don't know if it is any better than anyone else's. I don't kn ow if
polyester is better than any other dielectric - that;s why I am asking.
WIMA just happen to be readily available to me.

Aside from really cheap Chinese ****, brand name snobbery is idiotic. WIMA
are certainly more expensive than most though if you think that's good.
I don't care who makes them so long as they are good. WIMA are well
known in the UK, easy to obtain and not grossly overpriced like many
audiophile types. I was hoping for some practical advice.

High voltage caps are somewhat rarer these days than was once the case. WIMA are
fine. They have a reputation for longevity/quality but then do various other
manufacturers.

What value(s) voltage and form factor (axial or radial) are you looking for ?

Graham


47nF, 100nF and 1uF all at 400V dc, radial (PCB mount)

Cheers

Ian

[Ian Bell[_2_]]

Eeyore wrote:

"Mikkel C. Simonsen" wrote:

Ian Bell wrote:
I have seen many a pro audio review where the reviewer has siad
something like 'build quality was exceptional - plenty of WIMA caps'
which implies in some audio circles at least some WIMA caps are thought
to be good.
Standard brand name snobbery

Wimas are fine, but so are Philips/BC, Ero, and many others. Wimas are
usually quite a bit more expensive than other brands...

Agreed 100%. The old Philips passives division is now *Vishay* BC components
btw. You really can't go far wrong with any polyester cap say from the
Farnell catalogue.

Graham


Which at 400V dc wkg are rather thin on the ground in the Farnell
catalogue. The WIMA polyester equivalents are actually cheaper from Rapid.

For example, Vishay 100nF 400V 10% is 80p from Farnell. A WIMA MKS4
100nf 400V 10% is 12p from Rapid or you could even get a SunTan version
for a mere 6p. So where does this idea that WIMA are expensive come from?

Cheers

Ian

[Ian Bell[_2_]]

Ian Bell wrote:
Eeyore wrote:

"Mikkel C. Simonsen" wrote:

Ian Bell wrote:
I have seen many a pro audio review where the reviewer has siad
something like 'build quality was exceptional - plenty of WIMA caps'
which implies in some audio circles at least some WIMA caps are thought
to be good.
Standard brand name snobbery

Wimas are fine, but so are Philips/BC, Ero, and many others. Wimas are
usually quite a bit more expensive than other brands...

Agreed 100%. The old Philips passives division is now *Vishay* BC
components
btw. You really can't go far wrong with any polyester cap say from the
Farnell catalogue.

Graham


Which at 400V dc wkg are rather thin on the ground in the Farnell
catalogue. The WIMA polyester equivalents are actually cheaper from Rapid.

For example, Vishay 100nF 400V 10% is 80p from Farnell. A WIMA MKS4
100nf 400V 10% is 12p from Rapid or you could even get a SunTan version
for a mere 6p. So where does this idea that WIMA are expensive come from?

Cheers

Ian

Bit of a boo boo there, the Vishay part is actually 22p but still rather
more expansive than the WIMA.

Cheers

Ian

[Mikkel C. Simonsen]

Ian Bell wrote:
So where does this idea that WIMA are expensive come from?

When I ordered a large(ish) quantity of caps last year I compared the
prices from many sources. In all cases but one specific type/value Wima
was more expensive than the competition. Farnell prices are always very
high - I order from the factory directly or from a distributor.

Best regards,

Mikkel C. Simonsen

[Eeyore]

Ian Bell wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
"Mikkel C. Simonsen" wrote:
Ian Bell wrote:
I have seen many a pro audio review where the reviewer has siad
something like 'build quality was exceptional - plenty of WIMA caps'
which implies in some audio circles at least some WIMA caps are thought
to be good.
Standard brand name snobbery

Wimas are fine, but so are Philips/BC, Ero, and many others. Wimas are
usually quite a bit more expensive than other brands...

Agreed 100%. The old Philips passives division is now *Vishay* BC components
btw. You really can't go far wrong with any polyester cap say from the
Farnell catalogue.


Which at 400V dc wkg are rather thin on the ground in the Farnell
catalogue. The WIMA polyester equivalents are actually cheaper from Rapid.

For example, Vishay 100nF 400V 10% is 80p from Farnell. A WIMA MKS4
100nf 400V 10% is 12p from Rapid or you could even get a SunTan version
for a mere 6p. So where does this idea that WIMA are expensive come from?

I think it's more the case that FARNELL are expensive. Not many people know of
Rapid so I didn't mention it.

Graham

[Eeyore]

"Mikkel C. Simonsen" wrote:

Ian Bell wrote:
So where does this idea that WIMA are expensive come from?

When I ordered a large(ish) quantity of caps last year I compared the
prices from many sources. In all cases but one specific type/value Wima
was more expensive than the competition. Farnell prices are always very
high - I order from the factory directly or from a distributor.

It all depends on quantities and convenience. Farnell's pricing isn't
always that shocking though.

Graham

[Peter Wieck]

On Oct 21, 6:19*am, Ian Bell wrote:

Which at 400V dc wkg are rather thin on the ground in the Farnell
catalogue. The WIMA polyester equivalents are actually cheaper from Rapid..

For example, Vishay 100nF 400V 10% is 80p from Farnell. A WIMA MKS4
100nf 400V 10% is 12p from Rapid or you could even get a SunTan version
for a mere 6p. So where does this idea that WIMA are expensive come from?

From Mouser:

Vishay Sprague Polyester Orange Drop Capacitors .10UF 600V 10% In
Stock
1: $1.13
25: $1.01
50: $0.92
100: $0.85

WIMA Polyester Film Capacitors 630V .1uF 10% In Stock
1: $0.48
10: $0.39
100: $0.31
500: $0.30

Mallory DC Film Capacitors 630V .1uF 5% Page 809
1: $0.94
50: $0.85
100: $0.72
500: $0.64

Cornell Dubilier Polyester Film Capacitors .1UF 630V 10%
1: $0.61
10: $0.34
100: $0.32
200: $0.31

Xicon Radial Metallized Polyester Film Capacitors POLY MET 630V .1uF
10%
1: $0.67
100: $0.56
500: $0.46
1,000: $0.41

Nichicon Polyester Film Capacitors .1UF 630V 10%
1: $0.19
1,000: $0.178
3,000: $0.168
10,000: $0.163

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Ian Bell[_2_]]

Mikkel C. Simonsen wrote:
Ian Bell wrote:
So where does this idea that WIMA are expensive come from?

When I ordered a large(ish) quantity of caps last year I compared the
prices from many sources. In all cases but one specific type/value Wima
was more expensive than the competition. Farnell prices are always very
high - I order from the factory directly or from a distributor.

Best regards,

Mikkel C. Simonsen


Interesting, especially as you are in Europe like me. Can you be a bit
more specific about what you mean by 'largish' quantities?

Cheers

Ian

[Ian Bell[_2_]]

Eeyore wrote:

Ian Bell wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
"Mikkel C. Simonsen" wrote:
Ian Bell wrote:
I have seen many a pro audio review where the reviewer has siad
something like 'build quality was exceptional - plenty of WIMA caps'
which implies in some audio circles at least some WIMA caps are thought
to be good.
Standard brand name snobbery

Wimas are fine, but so are Philips/BC, Ero, and many others. Wimas are
usually quite a bit more expensive than other brands...
Agreed 100%. The old Philips passives division is now *Vishay* BC components
btw. You really can't go far wrong with any polyester cap say from the
Farnell catalogue.

Which at 400V dc wkg are rather thin on the ground in the Farnell
catalogue. The WIMA polyester equivalents are actually cheaper from Rapid.

For example, Vishay 100nF 400V 10% is 80p from Farnell. A WIMA MKS4
100nf 400V 10% is 12p from Rapid or you could even get a SunTan version
for a mere 6p. So where does this idea that WIMA are expensive come from?

I think it's more the case that FARNELL are expensive. Not many people know of
Rapid so I didn't mention it.

Graham


Yes, they do seem to beat Farnell on a regular basis, but unfortunately
their range is more limited especially when it comes to high voltage caps.

Cheers

ian

[Ian Bell[_2_]]

Peter Wieck wrote:
On Oct 21, 6:19 am, Ian Bell wrote:

Which at 400V dc wkg are rather thin on the ground in the Farnell
catalogue. The WIMA polyester equivalents are actually cheaper from Rapid.

For example, Vishay 100nF 400V 10% is 80p from Farnell. A WIMA MKS4
100nf 400V 10% is 12p from Rapid or you could even get a SunTan version
for a mere 6p. So where does this idea that WIMA are expensive come from?

From Mouser:

Vishay Sprague Polyester Orange Drop Capacitors .10UF 600V 10% In
Stock
1: $1.13
25: $1.01
50: $0.92
100: $0.85

WIMA Polyester Film Capacitors 630V .1uF 10% In Stock
1: $0.48
10: $0.39
100: $0.31
500: $0.30

Mallory DC Film Capacitors 630V .1uF 5% Page 809
1: $0.94
50: $0.85
100: $0.72
500: $0.64

Cornell Dubilier Polyester Film Capacitors .1UF 630V 10%
1: $0.61
10: $0.34
100: $0.32
200: $0.31

Xicon Radial Metallized Polyester Film Capacitors POLY MET 630V .1uF
10%
1: $0.67
100: $0.56
500: $0.46
1,000: $0.41

Nichicon Polyester Film Capacitors .1UF 630V 10%
1: $0.19
1,000: $0.178
3,000: $0.168
10,000: $0.163

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


So from you experience WIMA are cheaper than most. It seems that it
depends on quantities and location as much as anything. I think I'll
check out the Mouser UK site.

Cheers

Ian

[Mikkel C. Simonsen]

Ian Bell wrote:

When I ordered a large(ish) quantity of caps last year I compared the
prices from many sources. In all cases but one specific type/value Wima
was more expensive than the competition. Farnell prices are always very
high - I order from the factory directly or from a distributor.


Interesting, especially as you are in Europe like me. Can you be a bit
more specific about what you mean by 'largish' quantities?

In this case between 50 and 500 pieces per value.

Best regards,

Mikkel C. Simonsen

[Ian Bell[_2_]]

Mikkel C. Simonsen wrote:
Ian Bell wrote:
When I ordered a large(ish) quantity of caps last year I compared the
prices from many sources. In all cases but one specific type/value Wima
was more expensive than the competition. Farnell prices are always very
high - I order from the factory directly or from a distributor.

Interesting, especially as you are in Europe like me. Can you be a bit
more specific about what you mean by 'largish' quantities?

In this case between 50 and 500 pieces per value.

Best regards,

Mikkel C. Simonsen


Thank you, that us useful information. I have been checking data sheets
and I notice that the WIMA parts are rated to operate up to 105 degrees
C where as the others only to 85 degrees. Perhaps that explains why the
WIMA parts are a little more expensive.

Cheers

ian

[Ian Iveson]

Ian Bell wrote :


Thank you, that us useful information. I have been
checking data sheets and I notice that the WIMA parts are
rated to operate up to 105 degrees C where as the others
only to 85 degrees. Perhaps that explains why the WIMA
parts are a little more expensive.


I wonder, if film is film, what the difference is?

And, if an 85C cap is operated at 105C, which quoted
electrical parameter is no longer valid?

Ian

[Ian Bell[_2_]]

Ian Iveson wrote:
Ian Bell wrote :

Thank you, that us useful information. I have been
checking data sheets and I notice that the WIMA parts are
rated to operate up to 105 degrees C where as the others
only to 85 degrees. Perhaps that explains why the WIMA
parts are a little more expensive.


I wonder, if film is film, what the difference is?

And, if an 85C cap is operated at 105C, which quoted
electrical parameter is no longer valid?

Ian



Well they all seem to use a PET film and as someone else pointed out
there are relatively few suppliers of such films. I think the
construction may have something to do with it. Certainly there are
non-inductive and regular (presumably inductive) methods of construction
which will have a bearing on the price although all the ones I have
looked at so far seem to be of the non-inductive type.

As far as temperature rating is concerned, WIMA say to derate the
voltage rating by 1.25% per degree from 85 degrees for dec voltages and
from 75 degrees for the ac voltage rating. I have not seen deratings
given by other manufacturers so far.

Cheers

Ian

[Ian Iveson]

Ian Bell wrote

Thank you, that us useful information. I have been
checking data sheets and I notice that the WIMA parts
are rated to operate up to 105 degrees C where as the
others only to 85 degrees. Perhaps that explains why the
WIMA parts are a little more expensive.


I wonder, if film is film, what the difference is?

And, if an 85C cap is operated at 105C, which quoted
electrical parameter is no longer valid?


Well they all seem to use a PET film and as someone else
pointed out there are relatively few suppliers of such
films. I think the construction may have something to do
with it. Certainly there are non-inductive and regular
(presumably inductive) methods of construction which will
have a bearing on the price although all the ones I have
looked at so far seem to be of the non-inductive type.

As far as temperature rating is concerned, WIMA say to
derate the voltage rating by 1.25% per degree from 85
degrees for dec voltages and from 75 degrees for the ac
voltage rating. I have not seen deratings given by other
manufacturers so far.


It could be related to film thickness, or purity, or a
combination of the two.

Although the common plastics used for dielectrics are quite
simple in principle (except PET is a bit more complex),
complications arise from manufacture. Impurities are added
for various reasons: stoppers, catalysts, fillers, and
accidental inclusions. Then there are differences in
behaviour according to how they are formed into film.

So even though there are just a few manufacturers of the raw
materials, and a few who produce film, they do so in
different grades for various purposes.

Ian

[Eeyore]

Ian Bell wrote:

Mikkel C. Simonsen wrote:
Ian Bell wrote:
When I ordered a large(ish) quantity of caps last year I compared the
prices from many sources. In all cases but one specific type/value Wima
was more expensive than the competition. Farnell prices are always very
high - I order from the factory directly or from a distributor.

Interesting, especially as you are in Europe like me. Can you be a bit
more specific about what you mean by 'largish' quantities?

In this case between 50 and 500 pieces per value.

Thank you, that us useful information. I have been checking data sheets
and I notice that the WIMA parts are rated to operate up to 105 degrees
C where as the others only to 85 degrees. Perhaps that explains why the
WIMA parts are a little more expensive.

On polyester caps ?

Graham