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Robert Orban[_2_] Robert Orban[_2_] is offline
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Default V2 of Orban loudess meter now posted

ORBAN POSTS V2.0 OF ITS FREE LOUDNESS METER SOFTWARE FOR WINDOWS

March 13, 2012 San Leandro, California - Orban today posted V2.0 of
its free loudness meter application.

V1 worked only on Windows PCs running XP, Vista, and 7; new in V2 is
support for Intel-based Mac computers running OS10.6 or higher. Also new
is comprehensive support for the ITU-R Rec. BS.1770-2 and EBU R 128
metering standards. R 128 calls for three meters: an ungated "momentary"
meter having a time integration window of 400 ms, an ungated "short-
term" meter having a time integration window of 3 seconds, and an
"integrated" meter, having a user-selectable time integration window and
gating as specified in BS.1770-2. Additionally, V2 measures Loudness
Range per EBU - TECH 3342, which is incorporated into R 128 by
reference.

Loudness meter scales have been revised to conform to EBU - TECH 3341
and loudness can be displayed in absolute terms or relative to a user-
adjustable reference level, which is typically -23 LBFS or -24 LKFS.

Manual start/start mode is now available and maximum integration time
has been extended to three hours, allowing users to measure the BS.1770
-2 Integrated loudness and Loudness Range of long-form programming like
feature films.

Many CDs are now mastered with gross amounts of digital-domain clipping,
which can cause overshoots after D/A conversion. When clipped by analog
circuitry in consumer playout devices, these overshoots will add still
more distortion compared to the distortion added by the digital clipping
alone. A new Reconstructed Peak meter runs at 384 kHz sample rate and
indicates the peak level of the audio after D/A conversion with an
accuracy of better than 0.2 dB, which is better than that required in
Annex 2 of ITU-R Rec. BS.1770-2. The Reconstructed Peak meter allows
mastering engineers to anticipate analog-domain clipping and to prevent
it by slightly lowering maximum peak levels in the digital domain.

The meter now allows users to write comma-delimited ASCII log files that
can be imported into any common spreadsheet or graphing application for
graphical display. Typical applications include graphing loudness vs.
time and creating histograms. Logging can also be used to verify that
television stations in the U.S. are complying with the CALM Act.

The VU meter has been revised so that it can indicate levels above 0 VU.
0 VU can now be aligned to common line-up levels like -20 dBFS (SMPTE)
or -18 dBFS (EBU).

The PPM is now oversampled at 384 kHz, so it more accurately indicates
the effect of short-duration peaks.

The application now supports WASAPI Loopback operation in Windows Vista
and 7. This allows the meter to monitor any sound device that uses the
Windows WAVE audio system without depending on the specific features of
a given sound device's driver.

The Orban software is free to end users and is sponsored by Orban's
Optimod-TV loudness controllers, including the 1101, 6300, 6585, and
8685. It can be downloaded from www.orban.com/meter. Although the
current meter supports only mono and stereo programs, future
enhancements will include 5.1-channel surround metering and loudness
analysis of files in several formats.

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Don Pearce[_3_] Don Pearce[_3_] is offline
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Default V2 of Orban loudess meter now posted

On Thu, 15 Mar 2012 16:49:57 -0800, Robert Orban
wrote:

ORBAN POSTS V2.0 OF ITS FREE LOUDNESS METER SOFTWARE FOR WINDOWS

March 13, 2012 San Leandro, California - Orban today posted V2.0 of
its free loudness meter application.

V1 worked only on Windows PCs running XP, Vista, and 7; new in V2 is
support for Intel-based Mac computers running OS10.6 or higher. Also new
is comprehensive support for the ITU-R Rec. BS.1770-2 and EBU R 128
metering standards. R 128 calls for three meters: an ungated "momentary"
meter having a time integration window of 400 ms, an ungated "short-
term" meter having a time integration window of 3 seconds, and an
"integrated" meter, having a user-selectable time integration window and
gating as specified in BS.1770-2. Additionally, V2 measures Loudness
Range per EBU - TECH 3342, which is incorporated into R 128 by
reference.

Loudness meter scales have been revised to conform to EBU - TECH 3341
and loudness can be displayed in absolute terms or relative to a user-
adjustable reference level, which is typically -23 LBFS or -24 LKFS.

Manual start/start mode is now available and maximum integration time
has been extended to three hours, allowing users to measure the BS.1770
-2 Integrated loudness and Loudness Range of long-form programming like
feature films.

Many CDs are now mastered with gross amounts of digital-domain clipping,
which can cause overshoots after D/A conversion. When clipped by analog
circuitry in consumer playout devices, these overshoots will add still
more distortion compared to the distortion added by the digital clipping
alone. A new Reconstructed Peak meter runs at 384 kHz sample rate and
indicates the peak level of the audio after D/A conversion with an
accuracy of better than 0.2 dB, which is better than that required in
Annex 2 of ITU-R Rec. BS.1770-2. The Reconstructed Peak meter allows
mastering engineers to anticipate analog-domain clipping and to prevent
it by slightly lowering maximum peak levels in the digital domain.

The meter now allows users to write comma-delimited ASCII log files that
can be imported into any common spreadsheet or graphing application for
graphical display. Typical applications include graphing loudness vs.
time and creating histograms. Logging can also be used to verify that
television stations in the U.S. are complying with the CALM Act.

The VU meter has been revised so that it can indicate levels above 0 VU.
0 VU can now be aligned to common line-up levels like -20 dBFS (SMPTE)
or -18 dBFS (EBU).

The PPM is now oversampled at 384 kHz, so it more accurately indicates
the effect of short-duration peaks.

The application now supports WASAPI Loopback operation in Windows Vista
and 7. This allows the meter to monitor any sound device that uses the
Windows WAVE audio system without depending on the specific features of
a given sound device's driver.

The Orban software is free to end users and is sponsored by Orban's
Optimod-TV loudness controllers, including the 1101, 6300, 6585, and
8685. It can be downloaded from www.orban.com/meter. Although the
current meter supports only mono and stereo programs, future
enhancements will include 5.1-channel surround metering and loudness
analysis of files in several formats.


Just downloaded and tried it. Selected the right device, pressed the
go button and - nothing. No response at all. The original meter os
working fine.

All sliders are in their default positions.

The system is win7 with an M-Audio 2496 audiophile.

I can make it work if I select Monitor as the input instead of Line
1/2

d
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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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Default V2 of Orban loudess meter now posted

On 3/15/2012 8:49 PM, Robert Orban wrote:
ORBAN POSTS V2.0 OF ITS FREE LOUDNESS METER SOFTWARE FOR WINDOWS


Thanks! What a great service, and education.

I found only the EXE file in the ZIP that I downloaded, no
Readme, no invite to read the Readme, and no installer, but
when I ran the EXE, the meters ran. I guess that's all I
need, and I found the Readme (great read!).

I guess I must be lucky, it just works.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff
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Robert Orban Robert Orban is offline
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Default V2 of Orban loudess meter now posted

We will have an installer application for the meter soon.
Meanwhile, the executable should "just work" as long as the
computer meets the requirements shown in the Readme, which can
be found by cliking the "Installation Instructions" link on the
orban.com/meter page.

In article ,
says...
On 3/15/2012 8:49 PM, Robert Orban wrote:
ORBAN POSTS V2.0 OF ITS FREE LOUDNESS METER

SOFTWARE FOR WINDOWS

Thanks! What a great service, and education.

I found only the EXE file in the ZIP that I downloaded, no
Readme, no invite to read the Readme, and no installer, but
when I ran the EXE, the meters ran. I guess that's all I
need, and I found the Readme (great read!).

I guess I must be lucky, it just works.



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David Gravereaux David Gravereaux is offline
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Default V2 of Orban loudess meter now posted

Robert,

Thanks for the history lesson on the technology page. My father worked
at CTC under Ben Bauer.

--



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: If privacy is outlawed, only outlaws will have privacy. -- Philip Zimmermann

iEYEARECAAYFAk9jkyAACgkQlZadkQh/RmEeHgCfQefOAZnSIWbtYIsV5buJJhXO
qxYAoLCZ8xUJ6GfesWxjjO93JwYaofag
=zKgw
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Peter Larsen[_3_] Peter Larsen[_3_] is offline
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Default V2 of Orban loudess meter now posted

Robert Orban wrote:

ORBAN POSTS V2.0 OF ITS FREE LOUDNESS METER SOFTWARE FOR WINDOWS


Doesn't seem to work well on this here HP D530 sff (on board sound) with XP
prof ...

Kind regards

Peter Larsen


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Peter Larsen[_3_] Peter Larsen[_3_] is offline
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Default V2 of Orban loudess meter now posted

David Gravereaux wrote:

text arrived as attachment


Check your settings ... post arrived as attachment and not inline.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen




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David Gravereaux David Gravereaux is offline
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Default V2 of Orban loudess meter now posted

On 03/16/2012 12:56 PM, Peter Larsen wrote:
David Gravereaux wrote:

text arrived as attachment


Check your settings ... post arrived as attachment and not inline.



Hey Peter,
That's an OE bug, not me, sorry. The explain goes something like this:

Outlook Express has a problem with MIME handling related to
multipart/signed (RFC1847/MIME-Encyp) where a signed message that
conforms to the 'OpenPGP Message Format' (RFC4880) does not display the
body of the message when the body Content-Type is text/plain. The body
is incorrectly presented as an attachment with an invented filename
rather than being displayed as per the behavior described by MIME-Encyp
for when an MUA does not support the specific verification method.

Usenet as shown @
http://web.archive.org/web/200807190...enet/rules.txt
(see section titled 'No binaries: "Usenet is Text"'). PGP/MIME is fully
legit on usenet.

This OE bug has existed since 2001 apparently, while the standards track
status of MIME-Encyp predates that to around 1997.

http://www.piacitelli.org/oe.php - a great rant
--



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: If privacy is outlawed, only outlaws will have privacy. -- Philip Zimmermann

iEYEARECAAYFAk9jttMACgkQlZadkQh/RmFJSgCg8btlBN+VlBeEVK6E4iDejXK/
FHEAn3wO1QiR1/rcICfajFlWkkvZVp5n
=rdqs
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Luxey Luxey is offline
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Default V2 of Orban loudess meter now posted

Cool looking software, and it works. If I only knew how to read it.


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geoff geoff is offline
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Default V2 of Orban loudess meter now posted

Peter Larsen wrote:
David Gravereaux wrote:

text arrived as attachment


Check your settings ... post arrived as attachment and not inline.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen


Been through this before over 6 months ago. Mr G uses some unique setting
for posting, and won't change it. Or was it somebody else (maybe the only
other person to ever insist in that setting) ?

geoff


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Steve King Steve King is offline
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Default V2 of Orban loudess meter now posted

"geoff" wrote in message
...
Peter Larsen wrote:
David Gravereaux wrote:

text arrived as attachment


Check your settings ... post arrived as attachment and not inline.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen


Been through this before over 6 months ago. Mr G uses some unique setting
for posting, and won't change it. Or was it somebody else (maybe the only
other person to ever insist in that setting) ?

geoff


It is Mr. G. I haven't read a post by him for several years. Maybe I've
missed something wonderful, but I doubt it.

Steve King


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David Gravereaux David Gravereaux is offline
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Default V2 of Orban loudess meter now posted

On 03/16/2012 09:33 PM, geoff wrote:
...
Mr G uses some unique setting
for posting, and won't change it.


geoff uses a broken news program and tells me I'm doing it wrong.

OE is probably five years into its End-of-life status by now. This is
like complaining that convenient fast food isn't nutritious.

I heard there's a patch to fix OE @ http://goo.gl/ujYq7
--



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: If privacy is outlawed, only outlaws will have privacy. -- Philip Zimmermann

iEYEARECAAYFAk9kvjgACgkQlZadkQh/RmFJbwCeMfLeJ5+4m3IXw5MTWPMJroPJ
wAEAmwXPhafmtNELIDHnOlHAX+YrzuFp
=NSSn
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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hank alrich hank alrich is offline
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Default V2 of Orban loudess meter now posted

Steve King wrote:

"geoff" wrote in message
...
Peter Larsen wrote:
David Gravereaux wrote:

text arrived as attachment

Check your settings ... post arrived as attachment and not inline.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen


Been through this before over 6 months ago. Mr G uses some unique setting
for posting, and won't change it. Or was it somebody else (maybe the only
other person to ever insist in that setting) ?

geoff


It is Mr. G. I haven't read a post by him for several years. Maybe I've
missed something wonderful, but I doubt it.


Yep. He's more interested in sticking to his software than he is in
communicating.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri
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geoff geoff is offline
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Default V2 of Orban loudess meter now posted

David Gravereaux wrote:


You remin AFAIK the only person to ever post here in this format, so I'll
survive without updating my newsreaders to accomodate you.

Thanks anyway.

geoff




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David Gravereaux David Gravereaux is offline
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Default V2 of Orban loudess meter now posted

On 03/17/2012 06:42 PM, hank alrich wrote:
...
Yep. He's more interested in sticking to his software than he is in
communicating.


I love to talk shop, but can't talk it here. I keep getting attacked by
topic swap from folks telling me about their highly adored, outdated and
buggy newsreader. Chalk up another reason why usenet is dying.

--



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: If privacy is outlawed, only outlaws will have privacy. -- Philip Zimmermann

iEYEARECAAYFAk9osdUACgkQlZadkQh/RmGr9QCg9F9idBkDxzYB9mhEBOBx/byW
hekAmQEcChCLf+gLR46HlPJ5ne7vESkD
=lzjg
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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[email protected] ckozicki@snet.net is offline
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Default V2 of Orban loudess meter now posted

On Thursday, March 15, 2012 8:49:57 PM UTC-4, Robert Orban wrote:

Many CDs are now mastered with gross amounts of digital-domain clipping,
which can cause overshoots after D/A conversion. When clipped by analog
circuitry in consumer playout devices, these overshoots will add still
more distortion compared to the distortion added by the digital clipping
alone. A new Reconstructed Peak meter runs at 384 kHz sample rate and
indicates the peak level of the audio after D/A conversion with an
accuracy of better than 0.2 dB, which is better than that required in
Annex 2 of ITU-R Rec. BS.1770-2. The Reconstructed Peak meter allows
mastering engineers to anticipate analog-domain clipping and to prevent
it by slightly lowering maximum peak levels in the digital domain.

_________
ANY engineer who consciously engages in the above practice, knowingly, at their own discretion or at the request of ANY client(be it the artist, the producer, A&R, or the label) should be removed at once from that studio and never be allowed to work in audio recording again!

I know, I know, it's "all about the money". But common sense is also common sense. The equipment is designed to operate within certain parameters, and any recording, or post/mastering engineer should frickn' know better.

End of rant..

-ChrisCoaster
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hank alrich hank alrich is offline
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Default V2 of Orban loudess meter now posted

wrote:

On Thursday, March 15, 2012 8:49:57 PM UTC-4, Robert Orban wrote:

Many CDs are now mastered with gross amounts of digital-domain clipping,
which can cause overshoots after D/A conversion. When clipped by analog
circuitry in consumer playout devices, these overshoots will add still
more distortion compared to the distortion added by the digital clipping
alone. A new Reconstructed Peak meter runs at 384 kHz sample rate and
indicates the peak level of the audio after D/A conversion with an
accuracy of better than 0.2 dB, which is better than that required in
Annex 2 of ITU-R Rec. BS.1770-2. The Reconstructed Peak meter allows
mastering engineers to anticipate analog-domain clipping and to prevent
it by slightly lowering maximum peak levels in the digital domain.

_________
ANY engineer who consciously engages in the above practice, knowingly, at
their own discretion or at the request of ANY client(be it the artist, the
producer, A&R, or the label) should be removed at once from that studio
and never be allowed to work in audio recording again!

I know, I know, it's "all about the money". But common sense is also
common sense. The equipment is designed to operate within certain
parameters, and any recording, or post/mastering engineer should frickn'
know better.



Let's say you're a contractor. You get hired to build something. You are
provided specfic instructions and plans. You decide to build it very
differently because you think the desired design is ugly. How long you
think you will be in business?

You don't seem to have much grasp on how service industries work. It is
rarely the mastering engineer's call. Lables, artists, producers, any
and/or all want the work done a certain way. You either do it that way
or you find another line of work.

You are not exhibiting much "common sense" about this. All about the
money = being able to afford to live.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri
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Default V2 of Orban loudess meter now posted

On Tuesday, March 20, 2012 3:28:37 PM UTC-4, hank alrich wrote:



Let's say you're a contractor. You get hired to build something. You are
provided specfic instructions and plans. You decide to build it very
differently because you think the desired design is ugly. How long you
think you will be in business?

You don't seem to have much grasp on how service industries work. It is
rarely the mastering engineer's call. Lables, artists, producers, any
and/or all want the work done a certain way. You either do it that way
or you find another line of work.

You are not exhibiting much "common sense" about this. All about the
money = being able to afford to live.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

_________________________
It's not necessarily about "aesthetics" - as in does it look good?
It's about both sounding good and being produced in a technically correct fashion. It is outside the scope of my morality to overmodulate or overdrive a format even if I am being told to or "paid to".

And this: is none of the above! It not only doesn't sound good, it's harmful to one's hearing(you have to listen to it at a whisper because so much content is contained within a 2dB range of volume - your receiver volume is at or two out of ten and your significant other is complaining her ears hurt!) AND harmful to the equipment it is being played on(both the ventilation holes on top of my receiver, and the coils of my speakers, were very hot from playing this hypercompressed material). I had to put on some original CD AC/DC just too get the cones moving again to cool things down! Seriously. Even at relatively loud volume levels, tracks such as "Bohemian Rhapsody"(Queen) and "Back In Black" do not cause my receiver to warm up, because there is breathing room between the beats and between verses & choruses.

I'd rather engineer for -15dBfs with a dynamic range from -25 to -5. Just because that leaves a lot of "space" represented graphically doesn't mean all that space needs to be filled with sound all the time. What the heck wrong with people??

I'm living in the wrong decade I guess.

-CC

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[email protected] ckozicki@snet.net is offline
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Default V2 of Orban loudess meter now posted

On Tuesday, March 20, 2012 3:28:37 PM UTC-4, hank alrich wrote:


Let's say you're a contractor. You get hired to build something. You are
provided specfic instructions and plans. You decide to build it very
differently because you think the desired design is ugly. How long you
think you will be in business?

You don't seem to have much grasp on how service industries work. It is
rarely the mastering engineer's call. Lables, artists, producers, any
and/or all want the work done a certain way. You either do it that way
or you find another line of work.

You are not exhibiting much "common sense" about this. All about the
money = being able to afford to live.

_______________________



_________________________
It's not necessarily about "aesthetics" - as in does it look good?
It's about both sounding good and being produced in a technically correct fashion. It is outside the scope of my morality to overmodulate or overdrive a format even if I am being told to or "paid to".

And this: http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/o...sofourtime.jpg is none of the above! It not only doesn't sound good, it's harmful to one's hearing(you have to listen to it at a whisper because so much content is contained within a 2dB range of volume - your receiver volume is at or two out of ten and your significant other is complaining her ears hurt!) AND harmful to the equipment it is being played on(both the ventilation holes on top of my receiver, and the coils of my speakers, were very hot from playing this hypercompressed material). I had to put on some original CD AC/DC just too get the cones moving again to cool things down! Seriously. Even at relatively loud volume levels, tracks such as "Bohemian Rhapsody"(Queen) "Back In Black" or "1812 Overture" on Telarc do not cause my receiver to warm up appreciably, because there is breathing room between the beats and between verses & choruses.

I'd rather engineer for -15dBfs with a dynamic range from -25 to -5. Just because that leaves a lot of "space" represented graphically doesn't mean all that space needs to be filled with sound all the time. What the heck wrong with people??

I'm living in the wrong decade I guess.

-CC



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[email protected] ckozicki@snet.net is offline
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Default V2 of Orban loudess meter now posted

On Tuesday, March 20, 2012 3:28:37 PM UTC-4, hank alrich wrote:

Let's say you're a contractor. You get hired to build something. You are
provided specfic instructions and plans. You decide to build it very
differently because you think the desired design is ugly. How long you
think you will be in business?

You don't seem to have much grasp on how service industries work. It is
rarely the mastering engineer's call. Lables, artists, producers, any
and/or all want the work done a certain way. You either do it that way
or you find another line of work.

You are not exhibiting much "common sense" about this. All about the
money = being able to afford to live.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/

_________________________
It's not necessarily about "aesthetics" - as in does it look good?
It's about both sounding good and being produced in a technically correct fashion. It is outside the scope of my morality to overmodulate or overdrive a format even if I am being told to or "paid to".

And this: http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/o...sofourtime.jpg is none of the above! It not only doesn't sound good, it's harmful to one's hearing(you have to listen to it at a whisper because so much content is contained within a 2dB range of volume - your receiver volume is at or two out of ten and your significant other is complaining her ears hurt!) AND harmful to the equipment it is being played on(both the ventilation holes on top of my receiver, and the coils of my speakers, were very hot from playing this hypercompressed material). I had to put on some original CD AC/DC just too get the cones moving again to cool things down! Seriously. Even at relatively loud volume levels, tracks such as "Bohemian Rhapsody"(Queen) and "Back In Black" do not cause my receiver to warm up, because there is breathing room between the beats and between verses & choruses.

I'd rather engineer for -15dBfs with a dynamic range from -25 to -5. Just because that leaves a lot of "space" represented graphically doesn't mean all that space needs to be filled with sound all the time. What the heck wrong with people??

I'm living in the wrong decade I guess.

-CC


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Default V2 of Orban loudess meter now posted

On Tuesday, March 20, 2012 3:28:37 PM UTC-4, hank alrich wrote:


Let's say you're a contractor. You get hired to build something. You are
provided specfic instructions and plans. You decide to build it very
differently because you think the desired design is ugly. How long you
think you will be in business?

You don't seem to have much grasp on how service industries work. It is
rarely the mastering engineer's call. Lables, artists, producers, any
and/or all want the work done a certain way. You either do it that way
or you find another line of work.

You are not exhibiting much "common sense" about this. All about the
money = being able to afford to live.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/

______________
GOOGLE GROUPS SUCKS I DON'T CARE IF THIS QUADRUPLE POSTS!!!!

_________________________
It's not necessarily about "aesthetics" - as in does it look good?
It's about both sounding good and being produced in a technically correct fashion. It is outside the scope of my morality to overmodulate or overdrive a format even if I am being told to or "paid to".

And this: http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/o...sofourtime.jpg is none of the above! It not only doesn't sound good, it's harmful to one's hearing(you have to listen to it at a whisper because so much content is contained within a 2dB range of volume - your receiver volume is at or two out of ten and your significant other is complaining her ears hurt!) AND harmful to the equipment it is being played on(both the ventilation holes on top of my receiver, and the coils of my speakers, were very hot from playing this hypercompressed material). I had to put on some original CD AC/DC just too get the cones moving again to cool things down! Seriously. Even at relatively loud volume levels, tracks such as "Bohemian Rhapsody"(Queen) and "Back In Black" do not cause my receiver to warm up, because there is breathing room between the beats and between verses & choruses.

I'd rather engineer for -15dBfs with a dynamic range from -25 to -5. Just because that leaves a lot of "space" represented graphically doesn't mean all that space needs to be filled with sound all the time. What the heck wrong with people??

I'm living in the wrong decade I guess.

-CC


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wrote:

On Tuesday, March 20, 2012 3:28:37 PM UTC-4, hank alrich wrote:



Let's say you're a contractor. You get hired to build something. You are
provided specfic instructions and plans. You decide to build it very
differently because you think the desired design is ugly. How long you
think you will be in business?

You don't seem to have much grasp on how service industries work. It is
rarely the mastering engineer's call. Lables, artists, producers, any
and/or all want the work done a certain way. You either do it that way
or you find another line of work.

You are not exhibiting much "common sense" about this. All about the
money = being able to afford to live.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

_________________________
It's not necessarily about "aesthetics" - as in does it look good?
It's about both sounding good and being produced in a technically correct

fashion.

Wrong. We're talking esthetics, from the client's perspective, in some
cases.

It is outside the scope of my morality to overmodulate or overdrive a
format even if I am being told to or "paid to".


This is not about morality. You could hardly venture further off topic.
Almost as far as suggesting you'd be paid to do this work.

And this: is none of the above! It not only doesn't sound good,


There's the crux. It sounds good to the people paying the tab. It's that
simple. I do not agree with them. That does not concern them, either.

it's harmful to one's hearing(you have to listen to it


You do not have to listen to it. Take some personal responsibility.

at a whisper because so much content is contained within a 2dB range of
volume - your receiver volume


I don't have a receiver.

is at or two out of ten and your significant other is complaining her

ears hurt!)

Doesn't happen at our house. I don' tlisten to that stuff, and neither
does she.

AND harmful to the equipment it is being played on(both the ventilation

holes on top of my receiver, and the coils of my speakers, were very hot
from playing this hypercompressed material).

Yet you played it, and long enough to get that result. Do you lack all
selfcontrol?

I had to put on some original CD AC/DC just too get the cones moving again
to cool things down! Seriously.


I'm not sorry to say I cannot take much of this seriously.

Even at relatively loud volume levels, tracks such as "Bohemian
Rhapsody"(Queen) and "Back In Black" do not cause my receiver to warm
up, because there is breathing room between the beats and between verses
& choruses.


Regardless of the material I do not listen at relatively loud levels.

I'd rather engineer for -15dBfs with a dynamic range from -25 to -5. Just
because that leaves a lot of "space" represented graphically doesn't
mean all that space needs to be filled with sound all the time. What
the heck wrong with people??


They listen to musical sounds that they hate and then complain about it
on Usenet?

Look, you talk about how you'd do work you don't do. I'll tell you that
you wouldn't survive in this business for two weeks unless your clients
were such that they didn't expect any of their work to need to compete
over a broadcast channel. Few of those clients/producers/label people
understand enough about human hearing, musical dynamics, and broadcast
processing to make what I consider informed choices. I think they shoot
themselves in the foot, and then in the ear. But I do understand why
they think they need to be as loud on the radio as the next artist.

I may not agree with the results, but I know how folks got there.

I'm living in the wrong decade I guess.


See above...


--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri
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wrote:

GOOGLE GROUPS SUCKS I DON'T CARE IF THIS QUADRUPLE POSTS!!!!


You don't care about a high noise floor?

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri
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On Tuesday, March 20, 2012 5:29:59 PM UTC-4, Jeff Henig wrote:

-CC


I guess it was important enough to say it four times, huh? ;^)

--
---Jeff

_____________
The version with the link to the image should still be up. Here is the image:

And this: http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/o...sofourtime.jpg is none of the above

-CC


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On Tuesday, March 20, 2012 6:00:53 PM UTC-4, hank alrich wrote:
.net wrote:

GOOGLE GROUPS SUCKS I DON'T CARE IF THIS QUADRUPLE POSTS!!!!


You don't care about a high noise floor?

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

______________

NOW who's living in the past? LOL. We are talking digital here, aren't we? Minimum 256kbps Mp3, or WAVs or FLACs. Shouldn't have to worry about noise floor unless you're creating versions of songs to be played exclusively inside crowded passenger jets or convertibles doin' 90!

-CC



On Tuesday, March 20, 2012 6:00:53 PM UTC-4, hank alrich wrote:
.net wrote:

GOOGLE GROUPS SUCKS I DON'T CARE IF THIS QUADRUPLE POSTS!!!!


You don't care about a high noise floor?

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

______________

High noise floor? Now whos living in the past? LOL. We are talking digital here, arent we?
Mp3 minimum 256kbps, or WAV or FLAC, should have no problem, unless youre mastering versions of songs to be played exclusively inside crowded passenger jets or in convertibles doin 90 with the top down!

-CC
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On Tuesday, March 20, 2012 6:00:53 PM UTC-4, hank alrich wrote:
.net wrote:

GOOGLE GROUPS SUCKS I DON'T CARE IF THIS QUADRUPLE POSTS!!!!


You don't care about a high noise floor?

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri


______________

NOW who's living in the past? LOL. We are talking digital here, aren't we? Minimum 256kbps Mp3, or WAVs or FLACs. Shouldn't have to worry about noise floor unless you're creating versions of songs to be played exclusively inside crowded passenger jets or convertibles doin' 90!

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On Tuesday, March 20, 2012 6:00:53 PM UTC-4, hank alrich wrote:
.net wrote:

GOOGLE GROUPS SUCKS I DON'T CARE IF THIS QUADRUPLE POSTS!!!!


You don't care about a high noise floor?

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

______________

NOW who's living in the past? LOL. We are talking digital here, aren't we? Minimum 256kbps Mp3, or WAVs or FLACs. Shouldn't have to worry about noise floor unless you're creating versions of songs to be played exclusively inside crowded passenger jets or convertibles doin' 90!

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уторак, 20. март 2012. 23..40.24 UTC+1, је написао/ла:
On Tuesday, March 20, 2012 5:29:59 PM UTC-4, Jeff Henig wrote:

-CC


I guess it was important enough to say it four times, huh? ;^)

--
---Jeff

_____________
The version with the link to the image should still be up. Here is the image:

And this: http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/o...sofourtime.jpg is none of the above

-CC


i see nothing wrong with the picture. It's 7+ minutes squeezed onto screen. only when you zoom in you can see if something's distorte. Unless the waveform is of something well known, we all know should have quiet pasages.
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On Tuesday, March 20, 2012 7:05:47 PM UTC-4, Luxey wrote:


i see nothing wrong with the picture. It's 7+ minutes squeezed onto screen. only when you zoom in you can see if something's distorte. Unless the waveform is of something well known, we all know should have quiet pasages.


___________
Well here's what properly captured/engineered music should look like: http://www.audioproductionroom.com/w...eform_eggs.gif A little dramatic, but it rises and falls with the choruses & tempos.

-CC


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среда, 21. март 2012. 00.28.00 UTC+1, је написао/ла:
On Tuesday, March 20, 2012 7:05:47 PM UTC-4, Luxey wrote:


i see nothing wrong with the picture. It's 7+ minutes squeezed onto screen. only when you zoom in you can see if something's distorte. Unless the waveform is of something well known, we all know should have quiet pasages.


___________
Well here's what properly captured/engineered music should look like: http://www.audioproductionroom.com/w...eform_eggs.gif A little dramatic, but it rises and falls with the choruses & tempos.

-CC


Pure trash core punk, I guess.
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On Tuesday, March 20, 2012 7:44:42 PM UTC-4, Luxey wrote:
среда, 21. март 2012. 00.28.00 UTC+1, је написао/ла:
On Tuesday, March 20, 2012 7:05:47 PM UTC-4, Luxey wrote:


i see nothing wrong with the picture. It's 7+ minutes squeezed onto screen. only when you zoom in you can see if something's distorte. Unless the waveform is of something well known, we all know should have quiet pasages.


___________
Well here's what properly captured/engineered music should look like: http://www.audioproductionroom.com/w...eform_eggs.gif A little dramatic, but it rises and falls with the choruses & tempos.

-CC


Pure trash core punk, I guess.

_____________
Quite the opposite. Punk would look like a "sausage" waveform. No air at all!

-CC

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среда, 21. март 2012. 00.59.44 UTC+1, је написао/ла:
On Tuesday, March 20, 2012 7:44:42 PM UTC-4, Luxey wrote:
среда, 21. март 2012. 00.28.00 UTC+1, је написао/ла:
On Tuesday, March 20, 2012 7:05:47 PM UTC-4, Luxey wrote:


i see nothing wrong with the picture. It's 7+ minutes squeezed onto screen. only when you zoom in you can see if something's distorte. Unless the waveform is of something well known, we all know should have quiet pasages.

___________
Well here's what properly captured/engineered music should look like: http://www.audioproductionroom.com/w...eform_eggs.gif A little dramatic, but it rises and falls with the choruses & tempos..

-CC


Pure trash core punk, I guess.

_____________
Quite the opposite. Punk would look like a "sausage" waveform. No air at all!

-CC


I was sarcastic. Point was, your pictur of proper mix/ master is quite improper for trash core. Hope I came through this time.
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Clear as mud! Thanks.
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You need to visit turnmeup, hank. Plenty of sites just like them will evrn tell you: You DON'T have to "mix for radio"! There is no difference between the volume of a song hypercompressed in the studio going over the radio and the same song dynamically vibrant going over the air. The station's processors will make everything the same volume. In "Stairway to Heaven" the first five opening plucks of the acoustic guitar will sound as loud as the crescendo '...and as we wind on xown the road..'. If you don't understand that then YOU don't belong in this trade!

respectfully,
-ChrisCoaster


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Well what he's saying about songs destined to be played over the radio flies in the face of everything those anti-loudness war sites stand for! I will not cave!
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wrote:

You need to visit turnmeup, hank. Plenty of sites just like them will

evrn tell you: You DON'T have to "mix for radio"! There is no
difference between the volume of a song hypercompressed in the studio
going over the radio and the same song dynamically vibrant going over
the air. The station's processors will make everything the same volume.
In "Stairway to Heaven" the first five opening plucks of the acoustic
guitar will sound as loud as the crescendo '...and as we wind on xown
the road..'. If you don't understand that then YOU don't belong in this
trade!

respectfully,
-ChrisCoaster


I hit Tunemeup when it first came up, and I have stated this before. You
need to pay attention to what is being said to you and to try to
exercise your memory.

Websties can tell you whatever someone wants to tell you. Have you ever
mixed something for broadcast?

I'll be blunt: I know a lot more than you do about this stuff. My own CD
jumps out of the car CD player when it follows most other stuff we might
play there, and it's all of three acoustic instruments. I know why. You
needn't be lecturing me about this stuff, because you're not qualified
at that level.

Due to spectral differences you are incorrect stating that broadcast
processing will make all sources equally loud.

It's this simple: you listen to stuff that irritates you and then come
here and whine about it _instead of turning off the friggin' racket_ and
choosing another activity. I choose to play music more than I choose to
listen to prerecorded music.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri
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wrote:

On Tuesday, March 20, 2012 6:00:53 PM UTC-4, hank alrich wrote:
.net wrote:

GOOGLE GROUPS SUCKS I DON'T CARE IF THIS QUADRUPLE POSTS!!!!


You don't care about a high noise floor?

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

______________

NOW who's living in the past? LOL. We are talking digital here, aren't
we? Minimum 256kbps Mp3, or WAVs or FLACs. Shouldn't have to worry about
noise floor unless you're creating versions of songs to be played
exclusively inside crowded passenger jets or convertibles doin' 90!


We do not really need three of every post from you. Seriously, dude.

The noise floor is you with your capslock key stuck on, and not giving a
**** that you post three or four times the very same message. _That_ is
the noise to which I refer. You want to tell enigneers how to do the
job, invoke "morality" as if it had anything to do with pop music, but
you can't work Usenet.

Get a grip.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri
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On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 20:15:21 -0700, ckozicki wrote:

Well what he's saying about songs destined to be played over the radio
flies in the face of everything those anti-loudness war sites stand for!
I will not cave!


"The customer is always right"

--
Anahata
--/-- http://www.treewind.co.uk
+44 (0)1638 720444

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anahata wrote:

On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 20:15:21 -0700, ckozicki wrote:

Well what he's saying about songs destined to be played over the radio
flies in the face of everything those anti-loudness war sites stand for!
I will not cave!


"The customer is always right"


And that holds even when the customer is wrong.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri
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