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#321
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NY Times: Amar G. Bose, Acoustic Engineer and Inventor, Dies at 83
"Trevor" wrote in message ...
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message ... There are such measurements, of course, but as far as I know, no one knows what they are. "As far as you know" is not saying much, then, is it? Enlighten us, o audio sensei. |
#322
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NY Times: Amar G. Bose, Acoustic Engineer and Inventor, Dies at 83
William Sommerwerck wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message "William Sommerwerck" wrote in message If a product has "good" measurements (though no standard of goodness has been established), it must sound good, and vice versa. There was a time when the correlation between the then available audio measurements and reliably perceived sound quality was tenuous, to say the least. Even though you obviously have not kept up technically William, those days are gone. So it is now possible to design an amplifier and know that it will "sound good", simply on the basis of measurements? Point me to the documentation. (By the way, there's a book making such a claim. It's from a British engineer whose name I forget, and it's gone through several editions. It's worth reading. I assume you have, Arny.) For the most part, these days you can. We now have measurements that we know match very well with audible effects for most conventional amplifier topologies. That's not to say that things don't get overlooked sometimes, and that's not to say that the next great new amplifier topology might have some artifact that we don't know how to measure. But for the most part, measurements have come a long way since the 1990s. I can recommend Doug Self's book on power amplifier design. While I don't agree with Arny that we have measurements that can detect all possible audible effects (especially where transducers and rooms are concerned), amplifiers are the one place where we have things sealed up pretty well. The claim that Crown K1 or K2 amplifiers sound awful is belied by numerous reports from owners to the contrary. These reports were based on carefully performed ABX tests, I assume. Because otherwise, they're not valid, and you shouldn't be citing them. It wouldn't be "scientific", right? I can attest that the K1 sounds terrible, and I am pretty sure I can make reasonable measurements showing why. And, I agree that the null test is the first place I'd begin. The problem with the null test, though, is that it not only points out all kinds of audible effects, but small amounts of group delay will cause a large null signal to appear but without causing much audible degradation. So the null test can indicate a lack of a problem but it cannot necessarily indicate a problem. BUT, reasoned and logical analysis of the residual signal can often help determine the source. My guess is that someone at Crown probably did do a null test on the K1 but that they decided it sell it anyway. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#323
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NY Times: Amar G. Bose, Acoustic Engineer and Inventor, Dies at 83
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message ...
I can recommend Doug Self's book on power amplifier design. That was the book I was referring to. I read it earlier this year. I was impressed by what he was trying to do (and a lot of what he said made sense), but I was disappointed that he didn't seem to reach a point of "final understanding". Perhaps I'm being unreasonable. The claim that Crown K1 or K2 amplifiers sound awful is belied by numerous reports from owners to the contrary. These reports were based on carefully performed ABX tests, I assume. Because otherwise, they're not valid, and you shouldn't be citing them. It wouldn't be "scientific", right? I can attest that the K1 sounds terrible, and I am pretty sure I can make reasonable measurements showing why. And, I agree that the null test is the first place I'd begin. If you get around to testing it, I'd like to know what you find. The next time I speak with Doctor Barclay, I'll ask him if he has access to the hardware, or can suggest a computer-based equivalent. The problem with the null test, though, is that it not only points out all kinds of audible effects, but small amounts of group delay will cause a large null signal to appear but without causing much audible degradation. So the null test can indicate a lack of a problem but it cannot necessarily indicate a problem. This was known by QUAD. The "direct" signal had to be subjected to the same HF rolloff produced by the amplifier, or you wouldn't get a good null. BUT, reasoned and logical analysis of the residual signal can often help determine the source. One would hope so! |
#324
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Car noise, was NY Times: Amar G. Bose, Acoustic Engineer and Inventor,
"Peter Larsen" wrote in message ... Frank Stearns wrote: (Scott Dorsey) writes: snips I have regularly had people in the music and non-audio engineering worlds ask me about car stereos. I have to explain to them that I have the original AM radio that came with the car. They are usually shocked. But frankly, cars, even ones far more modern than mine, are too loud. I wear earplugs while driving. +1 I do exaclty the same. Frank Mobile Audio Kind regards Peter Larsen Earplugs while driving would seem to be a dangerous thing. |
#325
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Car noise, was NY Times: Amar G. Bose, Acoustic Engineer and Inventor,
MG wrote:
"Peter Larsen" wrote in message ... Frank Stearns wrote: (Scott Dorsey) writes: snips I have regularly had people in the music and non-audio engineering worlds ask me about car stereos. I have to explain to them that I have the original AM radio that came with the car. They are usually shocked. But frankly, cars, even ones far more modern than mine, are too loud. I wear earplugs while driving. +1 I do exaclty the same. Frank Mobile Audio Kind regards Peter Larsen Earplugs while driving would seem to be a dangerous thing. Not at all. Earplugs reduce the level at the eardrum, but the ear's sensitivity threshhold drops a lot in the relative quiet. You can still hear well enough to drive safely, assuming one is capable of driving safely. -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://hankandshaidrimusic.com/ http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic |
#326
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Car noise, was NY Times: Amar G. Bose, Acoustic Engineer and Inventor,
"hank alrich" wrote in message ... MG wrote: I have a small low-profile sub in my car. Means you don't have to have the rest shreiking in order to hear any bass, which is a large part of most peoples' problem, I think. geoff |
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