[Radium]

Hi:

Lets say I have WMA file that is monoaural and 44.1 khz and contains a
song. What would be the minimum bit-rate neccesary in order for the
song to be recognizable to the ear of the average human who has
listened to the song before and knows the song?


Thanks,

Radium

[Radium]

Radium wrote:
Hi:

Lets say I have WMA file that is monoaural and 44.1 khz and contains a
song.

Sorry that should be a 44.1 khz sample rate. I hate typos!

[Walt]

Radium wrote:

Hi:

Lets say I have WMA file that is monoaural and 44.1 khz and contains a
song. What would be the minimum bit-rate neccesary in order for the
song to be recognizable to the ear of the average human who has
listened to the song before and knows the song?

It would probably depend on the song. "Happy Birthday" performed on a
cheap keyboard with no accompanyment would be recognizable at a lower
bit rate than, say, Mahler's 8th Symphony.

Why do you want to do this anyway? It becomes unlistenable long before
it becomes unrecognizable.

//Walt

[Radium]

Walt wrote:
Why do you want to do this anyway?

Just out of scientific interest.

[Richard Crowley]

"Radium" wrote ...
Walt wrote:
Why do you want to do this anyway?

Just out of scientific interest.

Then act like a "scientist" and conduct some experiments
for yourself. Real scientists don't ask dozens of insane
questions on the interweb. They do their own work.
Windows Media Encoder (and several other resources)
were all suggested to you. They don't even cost anything.
What is your problem?

[Radium]

Richard Crowley wrote:
What is your problem?

It always helps to get input from those who obviously know a lot more
than me.

[[email protected]]

Radium wrote:
Richard Crowley wrote:
What is your problem?

It always helps to get input from those who obviously know a lot more
than me.

Which, in the past, you have made a habit out of either
ignoring outright or confabulating into such blithering
nonsense as to render it essentially useless.

Where's the use in that? How "scientific" is that?

You have also made a career out of spatting ill-founded
personal opinions as "fact." Your ongoing declarations
about how FM synthesis is the best or worst or whatever
is notable not only for its frequency and poor factual basis,
but its complete uselessness. No one, absolutely no one
gives a ****.

[Richard Crowley]

"Radium" wrote ...
Richard Crowley wrote:
What is your problem?

It always helps to get input from those who obviously know a lot more
than me.

Why? Are you collecting input just for fun. All your
questions have been answered multiple times, but you
appear to have learned nothing from them. Consider
how discouraging this to people trying to provide the
input.

[Radium]

Walt wrote:
Radium wrote:

Hi:

Lets say I have WMA file that is monoaural and 44.1 khz and contains a
song. What would be the minimum bit-rate neccesary in order for the
song to be recognizable to the ear of the average human who has
listened to the song before and knows the song?

It would probably depend on the song. "Happy Birthday" performed on a
cheap keyboard with no accompanyment would be recognizable at a lower
bit rate than, say, Mahler's 8th Symphony.

Why do you want to do this anyway? It becomes unlistenable long before
it becomes unrecognizable.

//Walt

Would the songs be recognizable at 1kbps? How about 500 bps? Whats the
lowest you could go with the song "Boulevard of Broken Dreams" by
Green-Day?

[Laurence Payne]

On 9 Nov 2006 10:08:11 -0800, "Radium" wrote:

Lets say I have WMA file that is monoaural and 44.1 khz and contains a
song. What would be the minimum bit-rate neccesary in order for the
song to be recognizable to the ear of the average human who has
listened to the song before and knows the song?

This isn't really a question about bit-rate. It's about the minimum
information required to recognise a song.

Try
http://www.songtapper.com/s/tappingmain.bin?dotap=1

You might find one bit sufficient.

[Walt]

Laurence Payne wrote:

On 9 Nov 2006 10:08:11 -0800, "Radium" wrote:


Lets say I have WMA file that is monoaural and 44.1 khz and contains a
song. What would be the minimum bit-rate neccesary in order for the
song to be recognizable to the ear of the average human who has
listened to the song before and knows the song?


This isn't really a question about bit-rate. It's about the minimum
information required to recognise a song.

Try
http://www.songtapper.com/s/tappingmain.bin?dotap=1

You might find one bit sufficient.

Interesting site. Did you know that you can tap in a song yourself and
add it to their database? Cool, huh? Sort of like Wikipedia, only for
sound.

Anyway, I tried tapping in "Happy Birthday" to see if it recognized it,
and got these results:

I Am A Transexual
Rod Conners

Happy Birthday
Unknown

I Wanna **** Aaron Carter
Lexi Henning

Aaron Slaney Is Homosexual
Chas N' Dave

Cool, huh?

//Walt

PS Did you know that the population of Elephants has increased by a
factor of three?

[Laurence Payne]

On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:14:16 -0500, Walt
wrote:

Interesting site. Did you know that you can tap in a song yourself and
add it to their database? Cool, huh? Sort of like Wikipedia, only for
sound.

Anyway, I tried tapping in "Happy Birthday" to see if it recognized it,
and got these results:

I Am A Transexual
Rod Conners

Happy Birthday
Unknown

I Wanna **** Aaron Carter
Lexi Henning

Aaron Slaney Is Homosexual
Chas N' Dave

Cool, huh?


Lucky boy, Aaron. Must be his birthday :-)

[[email protected]]

Laurence Payne wrote:
On 9 Nov 2006 10:08:11 -0800, "Radium" wrote:

Lets say I have WMA file that is monoaural and 44.1 khz and contains a
song. What would be the minimum bit-rate neccesary in order for the
song to be recognizable to the ear of the average human who has
listened to the song before and knows the song?

This isn't really a question about bit-rate. It's about the minimum
information required to recognise a song.

Try
http://www.songtapper.com/s/tappingmain.bin?dotap=1

You might find one bit sufficient.

I tried tapping in the following:

J. S. Bach, Tocatta and Fugue in d

J. S. Bach, Inventio #8 in F

Francois Couperin le Grande, La Favorite

Jan Pieterszoon Sweelink, Unter de Linden Grunde,
also Meine Junges Lieben hast ein Ende

and it didn't find a single one of them! So it REALLY
sucks! :-) :-) :-)

(but it will reconize them now :-)

And, the question for our radium: if I were to play you a
completely uncompressed rendition of, oh, Unter de
Linden grunde, would you recognize it?

[RAGHU]

Hello,

20kbps seems to be good.
WMA performs good compared to Mp3 at lower birates.. but, not below
23-20kbps.

-Raghu
(www.soundzgood.blogspot.com)
Radium wrote:
Hi:

Lets say I have WMA file that is monoaural and 44.1 khz and contains a
song. What would be the minimum bit-rate neccesary in order for the
song to be recognizable to the ear of the average human who has
listened to the song before and knows the song?


Thanks,

Radium

[Radium]

RAGHU wrote:
20kbps seems to be good.
WMA performs good compared to Mp3 at lower birates.. but, not below
23-20kbps.

I've never found a WMA file that has a 44.1 khz sample-rate but a
bit-rate below 20kbps. I'd like to find such, though.

[Walt]

Radium wrote:
RAGHU wrote:

20kbps seems to be good.
WMA performs good compared to Mp3 at lower birates.. but, not below
23-20kbps.


I've never found a WMA file that has a 44.1 khz sample-rate but a
bit-rate below 20kbps.


Yes, there's a reason for that. Do the math.

I'd like to find such, though.

Ya like listening to 4 bit encoding?

//Walt

[Radium]

Walt wrote:
Ya like listening to 4 bit encoding?

If its a WMA file that monoaural and has a sample-rate that is at least
44.1 khz [and whose sample-rate is the same as the audio was when
uncompressed], then yes.

[Richard Crowley]

"Radium" wrote ...
Walt wrote:
Ya like listening to 4 bit encoding?

If its a WMA file that monoaural and has a sample-rate that is at
least
44.1 khz [and whose sample-rate is the same as the audio was when
uncompressed], then yes.

Then you have clearly wandered off into the field of
magic and have left technology behind. Perhaps you
should move your discussion to a newsgroup where
they discuss magic.

Do you truly not understand why this isn't possible,
or are you trolling us?

[RAGHU]

I understand that, I missed to mention that details.
Encoding at 20Kbps can happen only with 22 or 32 KHz sampling. Thanks
for asking more info.


Regards,
RAGHU
(www.soundzgood.blogspot.com)


Radium wrote:
RAGHU wrote:
20kbps seems to be good.
WMA performs good compared to Mp3 at lower birates.. but, not below
23-20kbps.

I've never found a WMA file that has a 44.1 khz sample-rate but a
bit-rate below 20kbps. I'd like to find such, though.

[Radium]

RAGHU wrote:
Encoding at 20Kbps can happen only with 22 or 32 KHz sampling

Wrong. Adobe Audition 1.5 allows encoding of 44.1 khz at 20kbps.

[Don Pearce]

On 14 Nov 2006 10:22:26 -0800, "Radium" wrote:

RAGHU wrote:
Encoding at 20Kbps can happen only with 22 or 32 KHz sampling

Wrong. Adobe Audition 1.5 allows encoding of 44.1 khz at 20kbps.

No it doesn't. If you try and save an MP3 at 20kbps it drops the
sampling rate to 11kHz.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com