Hi,

after years of CDs and PCM quality sounfd, i want to go back to playing my
old LPs on a decent turntable.

Problem is, I don't know where to look up newer stuff that doesn't cost a
fortune. Or find out how good it is. I'd like to spend less than $ 200.00 (I
said good, not earth-shattering good). I'd like good components and
interconnects, as well as reliablilty.

I don't care if searching for an older Rega or such is the best bet. I'd be
willing to go used, for a quality table.

Any suggestions? recommendations?

"Dickless Cheney" wrote in message
om...
Hi,

after years of CDs and PCM quality sounfd, i want to go back to playing my
old LPs on a decent turntable.

Problem is, I don't know where to look up newer stuff that doesn't cost a
fortune. Or find out how good it is. I'd like to spend less than $ 200.00
(I
said good, not earth-shattering good). I'd like good components and
interconnects, as well as reliablilty.

I don't care if searching for an older Rega or such is the best bet. I'd
be
willing to go used, for a quality table.

You'll HAVE to go used if you want anything good for that price.
Keep your eyes open for a bargain. Estate sales are your best chance.

TonyP.

"Dickless Cheney" wrote in message
om...

Problem is, I don't know where to look up newer stuff that doesn't cost a
fortune. Or find out how good it is. I'd like to spend less than $ 200.00
(I
said good, not earth-shattering good). I'd like good components and
interconnects, as well as reliablilty.

I don't care if searching for an older Rega or such is the best bet. I'd
be
willing to go used, for a quality table.

Any suggestions? recommendations?

In the mid-1980s, Acoustic Research put out an updated version of the
classic AR table. It has a higher-torque motor, I think, a sloped edge on
the platter, a nice-looking wooden base, and mirabile dictu, a decent tone
arm. They show up on e-bay with some regularity, and if you're real lucky
you can score one for $200, but even if you haver to go higher, you won't
regret it.

Peace,
Paul

"Dickless Cheney" wrote in message . com...
Hi,

after years of CDs and PCM quality sounfd, i want to go back to playing my
old LPs on a decent turntable.

Problem is, I don't know where to look up newer stuff that doesn't cost a
fortune. Or find out how good it is. I'd like to spend less than $ 200.00 (I
said good, not earth-shattering good). I'd like good components and
interconnects, as well as reliablilty.

I don't care if searching for an older Rega or such is the best bet. I'd be
willing to go used, for a quality table.

Any suggestions? recommendations?

Regas are good, I think Sumiko had some decent, medium priced stuff.
Check out the VPI HW19 jr. But for $200, you'll need to find something
used, since a decent cartridge will cost you more than that! I've been
using the Shure V15 Type V MR for many years, with good results. Not
as detailed as an MC cartridge, but plays just about anything and
sounds quite good overall.

Good luck,

Karl Winkler
Lectrosonics, Inc.
http://www.lectrosonics.com

"Dickless Cheney" wrote in message
om...
Hi,

after years of CDs and PCM quality sounfd, i want to go back to playing my
old LPs on a decent turntable.

Thanks to all for the recommendations. I figured used was my nest bet, but I
also figure that someone who owns that type of gear is apt to take good care
of it.

Now for a more esoteric question...

All things being equal, and on a modest setup, are the tunes going to sound
"THAT" much better on vinyl, than a CD? My speakers are adequate. I split
time between B&W 602 S2s, and an older pair of JBL L65s. I also have a JBL
12" sub (forgot the model number). All interconnects are fairly ubiquitious
Monsters and such. 12 ga speaker wire too.

Power is just a Yamaha 5540 receiver. I do remember the warmth of vinyl, and
don't get that in the CDs, but again, don't have a fortune to go audiophile
level. If I can piece stuff together one by one, then I might eventually
have a "listen only" system; but for now, the music and HT setup have to be
shared.

Any advice would be helpful.

"Dickless Cheney" wrote in message
. com...

All things being equal, and on a modest setup, are the tunes going to
sound
"THAT" much better on vinyl, than a CD? My speakers are adequate. I split
time between B&W 602 S2s, and an older pair of JBL L65s. I also have a JBL
12" sub (forgot the model number). All interconnects are fairly
ubiquitious
Monsters and such. 12 ga speaker wire too.

Power is just a Yamaha 5540 receiver. I do remember the warmth of vinyl,
and
don't get that in the CDs, but again, don't have a fortune to go
audiophile
level. If I can piece stuff together one by one, then I might eventually
have a "listen only" system; but for now, the music and HT setup have to
be
shared.

Any advice would be helpful.

Whether the tunes sound better or worse on vinyl is going to depend on way
too many things for a simple answer. If the vinyl was cut really well, and
is in mint or near-mint condition, while the matching CD was done in the
mid-80s in the usual inept fashion, then the vinyl could well sound better.
As the LPs get played more, they'll begin to sound less good.

On the other hand, if the vinyl was cut and pressed poorly, it'll probably
sound crappy from the start, and get worse as time goes on. A well-cut CD,
in that case, will run rings around it, and keep on doing so. An example:
I've been listening to the LP of the New Lost City Ramblers' "Songs from the
Depression", cut c. 1961, alongside the four cuts from it that were included
on their compilation CD, "Volume I: The Early Years", and the difference is
night and day in favor of the CD. It's a clean copy of the record, looks
like it was never played at all, and it still sounds pretty damned bad. Why?
A couple of reasons:

First, there's about 25 minutes on each side, which is a lot to squeeze onto
an LP, or at least it was in 1961. To get all that material on there, the
mastering engineer drastically rolled off the bass frequencies. Hence, the
disk sounds thin (while the CD, without the rolloff, sounds much warmer).

Second, Moe Asch, from the sound of it, pressed his discs on ground-up baby
toys, and they sound it. Ticks and pops everywhere, at least until I turned
DC-SIX loose on the files. But the LP is still much harsher sounding than
the CD.

Look, I like analog, and I like a good LP when I hear it. But many, many LPs
suck for reasons like this, and I spend a lot of time working with them, so
I have to live with that suckery. (Why? Because I do a radio show, and a lot
of the material I need hasn't been reissued on CDs, or if it has I can't
afford to buy it all.)

Now if you'll pardon me, I need to go see if I can rescue a moribund hard
drive.

Peace,
Paul

OK, so I have an old Sherwood linear tracking turntable, bought I guess in
the mid 80s. It seems to play everything OK, though I RARELY listen to LPs
anymore.

I'm curious why nobody sells the linear tracking turntables anymore...
problem in the design?

"Paul Stamler" wrote in message ...
"Dickless Cheney" wrote in message
. com...


Whether the tunes sound better or worse on vinyl is going to depend on way
too many things for a simple answer. If the vinyl was cut really well, and
is in mint or near-mint condition, while the matching CD was done in the
mid-80s in the usual inept fashion, then the vinyl could well sound better.
As the LPs get played more, they'll begin to sound less good.

On the other hand, if the vinyl was cut and pressed poorly, it'll probably
sound crappy from the start, and get worse as time goes on. A well-cut CD,
in that case, will run rings around it, and keep on doing so. An example:
I've been listening to the LP of the New Lost City Ramblers' "Songs from the
Depression", cut c. 1961, alongside the four cuts from it that were included
on their compilation CD, "Volume I: The Early Years", and the difference is
night and day in favor of the CD. It's a clean copy of the record, looks
like it was never played at all, and it still sounds pretty damned bad. Why?
A couple of reasons:

First, there's about 25 minutes on each side, which is a lot to squeeze onto
an LP, or at least it was in 1961. To get all that material on there, the
mastering engineer drastically rolled off the bass frequencies. Hence, the
disk sounds thin (while the CD, without the rolloff, sounds much warmer).

Second, Moe Asch, from the sound of it, pressed his discs on ground-up baby
toys, and they sound it. Ticks and pops everywhere, at least until I turned
DC-SIX loose on the files. But the LP is still much harsher sounding than
the CD.

Look, I like analog, and I like a good LP when I hear it. But many, many LPs
suck for reasons like this, and I spend a lot of time working with them, so
I have to live with that suckery. (Why? Because I do a radio show, and a lot
of the material I need hasn't been reissued on CDs, or if it has I can't
afford to buy it all.)

Now if you'll pardon me, I need to go see if I can rescue a moribund hard
drive.

Peace,
Paul

Paul sums it up pretty well, and I've experienced the same thing. I
have a nice TT setup, and a decent system, and there are certainly
some LPs that sound amazing (some Sheffield Labs direct-to-disc, and
MoFi 200gm records come to mind...) but I would say the majority of my
LP collection sounds good but not great for the reasons mentioned
above. For me, the key to LPs is that there is a ton of music pressed
to vinyl that has of yet never made it to CD (let alone SACD or DVDA,
or whatever). So when I want to check out some of the more obsucre
jazz, etc., in my collection, LP is the only place to find it.

Karl Winkler
Lectrosonics, Inc.
http://www.lectrosonics.com

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 06:19:04 GMT, "Dickless Cheney"
wrote:

Hi,

after years of CDs and PCM quality sounfd, i want to go back to playing my
old LPs on a decent turntable.

Problem is, I don't know where to look up newer stuff that doesn't cost a
fortune. Or find out how good it is. I'd like to spend less than $ 200.00 (I
said good, not earth-shattering good). I'd like good components and
interconnects, as well as reliablilty.

Let's see, maybe $100 for a low-end Nitty Gritty or similar vacuum
record cleaner, $100 for that AT cartridge from
http://www.needledoctor.com (who knows, they might have a table in
your budget. Have you looked on, dare I say it, ebay?), then ... how
much did you want to spend? Wait, you're in luck, the 440ML (Scott is
absolutely right, even many worn-out 45's sound clean when played with
this cartridge's fineline stylus) is now only $88.29, and that leaves
$11 for whatever turntable the thrift shop has...

I don't care if searching for an older Rega or such is the best bet. I'd be
willing to go used, for a quality table.

Any suggestions? recommendations?

Just that a 'quality' turntable isn't the only thing needed for
good, clean playback of records. Even if your LP's are well-kept,
cleaning makes a difference. You can even use cheap "interconnects",
just make sure the connections are clean.

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 06:19:04 GMT, "Dickless Cheney"
wrote:

Hi,

after years of CDs and PCM quality sounfd, i want to go back to playing my
old LPs on a decent turntable.

Problem is, I don't know where to look up newer stuff that doesn't cost a
fortune. Or find out how good it is. I'd like to spend less than $ 200.00 (I
said good, not earth-shattering good). I'd like good components and
interconnects, as well as reliablilty.

Let's see, maybe $100 for a low-end Nitty Gritty or similar vacuum
record cleaner, $100 for that AT cartridge from
http://www.needledoctor.com (who knows, they might have a table in
your budget. Have you looked on, dare I say it, ebay?), then ... how
much did you want to spend? Wait, you're in luck, the 440ML (Scott is
absolutely right, even many worn-out 45's sound clean when played with
this cartridge's fineline stylus) is now only $88.29, and that leaves
$11 for whatever turntable the thrift shop has...

I don't care if searching for an older Rega or such is the best bet. I'd be
willing to go used, for a quality table.

Any suggestions? recommendations?

Just that a 'quality' turntable isn't the only thing needed for
good, clean playback of records. Even if your LP's are well-kept,
cleaning makes a difference. You can even use cheap "interconnects",
just make sure the connections are clean.

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley