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#1
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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problems with MIDI hookup
Here's where I am at the moment...
I have the M-Audio MidiSport 1x1 attached to a computer running W7 Pro 64 SP1. I'm using the most-recent version of the M-Audio driver, even though it's not supposed to be required. A Miracle keyboard is attached to the MidiSport. The CoolSoft software synthesizer is installed, but doesn't work. To get it to work, I have to run MIDI-OX, with the MidiSport 1x1 selected as the Input, and the CoolSoftVirtualMIDISynth selected as the Output. (This is in the "MIDI Devices" dialog box.) This works, but I get only one voice. And the latency is unbelievable. It takes close to a second between pressing a key and getting output from the computer speakers. The correct questions seem to be... How do I get rid of MIDI-OX (and, presumably, the latency)? (For what it's worth, MIDI-OX shows the messages going to and from the keyboard.) How do I select voices? Thanks in advance. |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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problems with MIDI hookup
William Sommerwerck wrote:
Here's where I am at the moment... I have the M-Audio MidiSport 1x1 attached to a computer running W7 Pro 64 SP1. I'm using the most-recent version of the M-Audio driver, even though it's not supposed to be required. A Miracle keyboard is attached to the MidiSport. The CoolSoft software synthesizer is installed, but doesn't work. Does the standard Microsoft softsynth work? Does it work without MIDIOX? I'm at a disadvantage because I use a ROMpler for live playing and only play back through softsynths in a DAW. I did an experiment with N-Track 3.0 and I get third of a second to a second's latency with the Microsoft softsynth. SFAIK, that's that softsynth itself. To get it to work, I have to run MIDI-OX, with the MidiSport 1x1 selected as the Input, and the CoolSoftVirtualMIDISynth selected as the Output. (This is in the "MIDI Devices" dialog box.) This works, but I get only one voice. And the latency is unbelievable. It takes close to a second between pressing a key and getting output from the computer speakers. The correct questions seem to be... How do I get rid of MIDI-OX (and, presumably, the latency)? (For what it's worth, MIDI-OX shows the messages going to and from the keyboard.) How do I select voices? Thanks in advance. Have you tried Reaper instead of MidiOX? It may be fiddly getting it set up. The forum there is excellent and I've never found anything it won't do. I bring up Reaper because it's my cue mixer here at home. The audio latency is low enough that I can use it for that. That is not MIDI, though. But the initial experiment looks pretty bad. -- Les Cargill |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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problems with MIDI hookup
On 9/8/2014 6:41 PM, Les Cargill wrote:
Have you tried Reaper instead of MidiOX? It may be fiddly getting it set up. MidiOx is a router and test set, not a sequencer. CoolSoft is a synthesizer that's designed to work with a media player. It expects a virtual (not a real) MIDI output to feed it. I'm pretty sure that it doesn't work as a VSTi as you'd use with Reaper. MidiOx serves as the bridge between William's keyboard and the CoolSoft program by providing the virtual MIDI output that the synth wants. When you're playing a MIDI file, you don't care about latency, so maybe the CoolSoft developers didn't, either. Other than that conjecture, I have no other idea of why his latency between key press and sound is so great. Last time I had occasion to measure MIDI latency, I think I got about 4 milliseconds between the analog sound output of the synth and a soft synth that came along with my Pro Tools 10 Cheap bundle. I thought that was pretty darn good, certainly good enough for a hack keyboardist like me to play in real time. -- For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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problems with MIDI hookup
"Les Cargill" wrote in message ...
The CoolSoft software synthesizer is installed, but doesn't work. Does the standard Microsoft softsynth work? Does it work without MIDI-OX? Yes, I can choose it from the MIDI-OX Output list, and I get a different voice. Part of the problem is that I have //no idea// how to select the software synthesizer //without// MIDI-OX. Have you tried Reaper instead of MidiOX? It may be fiddly getting it set up. The forum there is excellent and I've never found anything it won't do. I don't understand why it doesn't work //without// MIDI-OX. You're not supposed to have to use a diagnostic tool to connect two devices. |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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problems with MIDI hookup
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message ...
When you're playing a MIDI file, you don't care about latency, so maybe the CoolSoft developers didn't, either. Other than that conjecture, I have no other idea of why his latency between key press and sound is so great. Last time I had occasion to measure MIDI latency, I think I got about 4 milliseconds between the analog sound output of the synth and a soft synth that came along with my Pro Tools 10 Cheap bundle. I thought that was pretty darn good, certainly good enough for a hack keyboardist like me to play in real time. Let's back up a bit. My ahem //assumption// is that you are supposed to be able to connect a MIDI keyboard and MIDI keyboard to your computer, connect them in some (unspecified) way without using diagnostic software, and play the synthesizer with the keyboard, in (essentially) real time. This is what I'm trying to do. The issue isn't the latency, so much as it is klutzy setup and the inability to select voices. |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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problems with MIDI hookup
On 9/9/2014 6:22 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
Let's back up a bit. My ahem //assumption// is that you are supposed to be able to connect a MIDI keyboard and MIDI keyboard to your computer, connect them in some (unspecified) way without using diagnostic software, and play the synthesizer with the keyboard, in (essentially) real time. This is what I'm trying to do. Of course you should be able to do that, but from what I read on the web site, CoolSoft isn't really designed to do that. Try Kontakt. It has a stand-alone mode, which is what you need. There's a free demo which won't let you do a lot, but at least you can verify that what you're expecting to work actually does: http://www.native-instruments.com/en...ers/kontakt-5/ -- For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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problems with MIDI hookup
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message ...
On 9/9/2014 6:22 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote: Let's back up a bit. My ahem //assumption// is that you are supposed to be able to connect a MIDI keyboard and MIDI keyboard to your computer, connect them in some (unspecified) way without using diagnostic software, and play the synthesizer with the keyboard, in (essentially) real time. This is what I'm trying to do. Of course you should be able to do that, but from what I read on the web site, CoolSoft isn't really designed to do that. Try Kontakt. It has a stand-alone mode, which is what you need. There's a free demo which won't let you do a lot, but at least you can verify that what you're expecting to work actually does: http://www.native-instruments.com/en...lers/kontakt-5 Thanks. I'll give it a look-see. |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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problems with MIDI hookup
On 08 Sep 2014, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote in rec.audio.pro: The CoolSoft software synthesizer is installed, but doesn't work. To get it to work, I have to run MIDI-OX, with the MidiSport 1x1 selected as the Input, and the CoolSoftVirtualMIDISynth selected as the Output. (This is in the "MIDI Devices" dialog box.) From what I can tell from their web site, the Coolsoft synth is not meant to be used stand alone. It has no visible MIDI input. It needs to be used with a MIDI host that will see it as available input. I guess you've got Midiox set up like a host, but that's not what it was made for, and may not be able to do what quite what you want. Also, the Coolsoft synth seems to be made mainly for playback of MIDI files, not with live performance in mind, so it might not be tuned for low latency. I'd say you first need to get a good MIDI host. You might try Reaper, which is mostly a audio recorder/MIDI sequencer, but should also be a good MIDI host. I don't know what your goal is, but I have a feeling that Coolsoft isn't really the right tool for you. |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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problems with MIDI hookup
"Nil" wrote in message ...
I don't know what your goal is, but I have a feeling that Coolsoft isn't really the right tool for you. As it's a MIDI synthesizer, why //shouldn't// it work with a MIDI keyboard? Regardless, thanks for the suggestion. |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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problems with MIDI hookup
On 9/9/2014 12:47 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
"Nil" wrote in message ... I don't know what your goal is, but I have a feeling that Coolsoft isn't really the right tool for you. As it's a MIDI synthesizer, why //shouldn't// it work with a MIDI keyboard? Well, it does, as long as you get MIDI to it in the way that it wants to receive it, as you've proved with MidiOx. But apparently there's no way for it to see the USB MIDI interface directly, and that's OK because it was intended for a computer program to send it data, not a device that talks to the operating system through the MIDI driver that the keyboard uses. -- For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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problems with MIDI hookup
On 09 Sep 2014, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote in rec.audio.pro: "Nil" wrote in message ... I don't know what your goal is, but I have a feeling that Coolsoft isn't really the right tool for you. As it's a MIDI synthesizer, why //shouldn't// it work with a MIDI keyboard? Because it's not set up to receive direct MIDI input from a hardware device. It needs to be attached to a host application. That application will receive the MIDI input an host application. Many software synthesizers are like this. Some also include a stand- alone mode that can be directly controlled by an external MIDI hardware device, but many do not. Your synth is one of those. You are trying to use MIDI Ox as the host, but I don't think that is a good choice. |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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problems with MIDI hookup
William Sommerwerck wrote:
"Les Cargill" wrote in message ... The CoolSoft software synthesizer is installed, but doesn't work. Does the standard Microsoft softsynth work? Does it work without MIDI-OX? Yes, I can choose it from the MIDI-OX Output list, and I get a different voice. Part of the problem is that I have //no idea// how to select the software synthesizer //without// MIDI-OX. Have you tried Reaper instead of MidiOX? It may be fiddly getting it set up. The forum there is excellent and I've never found anything it won't do. I don't understand why it doesn't work //without// MIDI-OX. You're not supposed to have to use a diagnostic tool to connect two devices. Midi-OX is also a MIDI "bridge" -- in the tradition of others from the past. SFAIK, there ain't one in Windows. IOW, there is nothing native in Windows which forwards the MIDI messages to the CoolSoft engine from the MIDI IN port. They call it a "virtual MIDI cable". Mike mentioned Kontakt - that may well be a good thing to try. -- Les Cargill |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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problems with MIDI hookup
On Tue, 9 Sep 2014 03:18:44 -0700 "William Sommerwerck"
wrote in article lumk68$oju$1@dont- email.me "Les Cargill" wrote in message ... The CoolSoft software synthesizer is installed, but doesn't work. Does the standard Microsoft softsynth work? Does it work without MIDI-OX? Yes, I can choose it from the MIDI-OX Output list, and I get a different voice. Part of the problem is that I have //no idea// how to select the software synthesizer //without// MIDI-OX. Perhaps I don't understand the problem, but most garden variety sound cards have MIDI ports - can't you just hook the Miracle kbd to them? |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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problems with MIDI hookup
On 09 Sep 2014, Jason wrote in
rec.audio.pro: Perhaps I don't understand the problem, but most garden variety sound cards have MIDI ports - can't you just hook the Miracle kbd to them? You don't understand. The problem isn't hooking up the keyboard. The "problem" (thought it isn't really a problem) is that CoolSoft VirtualMIDISynth is only a MIDI Out device. That is, it presents itself to host applications as a possible MIDI destination. The softsynth has no user-selectable MIDI In - you cannot send the output of the MIDI keyboard directly to it. Instead, you would send the keyboard to a host application, and set the output of the host to the softsynth. |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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problems with MIDI hookup
"Jason" wrote in message
... Perhaps I don't understand the problem, but most garden variety sound cards have MIDI ports - can't you just hook the Miracle kbd to them? Excellent question! The ASUS board uses a Realtek chip, and there is no apparent option for a MIDI connection. (There is no MIDI jack on the back.) |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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problems with MIDI hookup
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message ...
On 9/9/2014 12:47 PM, William Sommerwerck wrote: "Nil" wrote in message ... I don't know what your goal is, but I have a feeling that Coolsoft isn't really the right tool for you. As it's a MIDI synthesizer, why //shouldn't// it work with a MIDI keyboard? Well, it does, as long as you get MIDI to it in the way that it wants to receive it, as you've proved with MidiOx. But apparently there's no way for it to see the USB MIDI interface directly, and that's OK because it was intended for a computer program to send it data, not a device that talks to the operating system through the MIDI driver that the keyboard uses. I guess that explains it. "Common sense" takes another major hit! grin |
#17
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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problems with MIDI hookup
On 10 Sep 2014 00:59:12 GMT "Nil" wrote
in article On 09 Sep 2014, Jason wrote in rec.audio.pro: Perhaps I don't understand the problem, but most garden variety sound cards have MIDI ports - can't you just hook the Miracle kbd to them? You don't understand. .... Instead, you would send the keyboard to a host application, and set the output of the host to the softsynth. I get it. Several machines I've owned had Creative sound cards and they did have MIDI in/out. I guess that went by the wayside in the era of mother-board native audio. |
#18
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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problems with MIDI hookup
"Nil" wrote in message
... I'd say you first need to get a good MIDI host. You might try Reaper, which is mostly a audio recorder/MIDI sequencer, but should also be a good MIDI host. I don't know what your goal is, but I have a feeling that Coolsoft isn't really the right tool for you. FWIW, I've used Reaper sort of like this, using different VSTi soft syths and an Akai controller (MIDI over USB). I was able to use the Akia as a straight keyboard, and also use the knobs as faders for capturing volume envelopes. That last part worked, but was too awkward to be useful to me. Sean |
#19
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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problems with MIDI hookup
On 9/9/2014 9:47 PM, Jason wrote:
I get it. Several machines I've owned had Creative sound cards and they did have MIDI in/out. I guess that went by the wayside in the era of mother-board native audio. There are still MIDI inputs and outputs, but these days it's common to use USB to move their data into and out of a computer. That's how you can have a "USB MIDI keyboard" or an audio interface that connects to the computer via USB and has 5-pin MIDI IN and OUT connectors on it. There's a driver that says to the operating system "This USB device sends and receives MIDI data." The application program reads and records the incoming MIDI data and sends it out to a device or, in this case, another program, that makes the noises and sends them through the sound card to the speakers so you can hear it. -- For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com |
#20
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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problems with MIDI hookup
On Tue, 09 Sep 2014, "William Sommerwerck" wrote to All: WS "Jason" wrote in message WS ... J Perhaps I don't understand the problem, but most garden variety J sound cards have MIDI ports - can't you just hook the Miracle kbd J to them? WS Excellent question! The ASUS board uses a Realtek chip, and there WS is no apparent option for a MIDI connection. (There is no MIDI WS jack on the back.) IIRC, the joystick port was used for MIDI back in the day... you used one or the other but both plugged into the same port... is there a joystick port on that ASUS board or is it all USB? which ASUS board is it? )\/(ark -- | Remove .my.foot for email | via Waldo's Place USA Fidonet-Internet Gateway Site | Waldo's Place USA 919-774-5930 telnet://bbs.wpusa.dynip.com | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. |
#21
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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problems with MIDI hookup
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message ...
There's a driver that says to the operating system "This USB device sends and receives MIDI data." The application program reads and records the incoming MIDI data and sends it out to a device or, in this case, another program, that makes the noises and sends them through the sound card to the speakers so you can hear it. I have, for the moment, "resolved" the problem. I installed "Piano for Dummies", and lo and behold, the program recognized everything. I told it to use the Midisport 1x1 and the CoolSoft synthesizer, and it worked. I could pick a voice from a long list, and the Miracle Keyboard used it. Both the In and Out data lights on the Midisport flicker. You're supposed to be able to have the keyboard play through the computer, but it doesn't work. Yet. As I proceed through the course, I will find out whether everything is working right (such as being able to record and play back your attempts to By the way, I installed Kontakt and its library -- and have no idea how to use it. I appreciate everyone's help. |
#22
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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problems with MIDI hookup
"mark lewis" wrote in message ...
IIRC, the joystick port was used for MIDI back in the day... You used one or the other but both plugged into the same port... I still have the MediaVision MIDI interface for the joystick port. Is there a joystick port on that ASUS board or is it all USB? It's all USB. Which ASUS board is it? P8Z77-V Deluxe. |
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