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  #21  
Old April 23rd 17, 03:28 AM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
Trevor
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Posts: 2,760
Default [CM] Headphones -> Hearing aids

On 22/04/2017 1:12 AM, Dan Espen wrote:
> I find unsubstantiated cynicism disturbing.
> It speaks to paranoia which is a mental illness.


So go over to an amateur phychoanalysis group then, perhaps you could
discuss if they are any worse than people who claim others have a mental
illness because they disagree with you, and have been around long enough
to know how the world actually works.


> Hearing aids are mostly not covered by any insurance,
> let alone US government payments. Who knew audiologists
> have pension funds? Apparently, only you.


Apparently lots you don't know, like the fact the world consists of
countries other than the USA! :-)

>
> Anyone with hearing loss would do well to continue with annual
> hearing evaluations.


I must have missed where ANYONE suggested otherwise? Although many
people don't need every year though if they could adjust the aids
themselves. Every couple of years is enough for most people, and
certainly before buying new aids.

>
> My audiologist uses some Windows based software to access
> the hearing aids, I'd like a copy, and I don't buy any
> safety arguments. But I don't know how to analyze the
> results of a hearing test and convert that into hearing aid
> settings.


But many here do. More to the point, once you have done the initial
set-up from your audiogram, you still have to fine tune them by ear. It
is *THAT* trial and error process that is a complete pain for many if
they have to go to an audiologist a dozen times and still not be happy! :-(


> I'm not upset that I don't have the software.
> It's probably just as well.


Which is fine for you of course. I never suggested it should be
compulsory! However people who think they should control *everyone* else
based on *their* preference are simply assholes. :-(

Trevor.


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  #22  
Old April 23rd 17, 03:35 AM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
Trevor
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Posts: 2,760
Default [CM] Headphones -> Hearing aids

On 22/04/2017 2:31 AM, Rich wrote:
> In comp.misc Trevor > wrote:
>> On 21/04/2017 6:00 AM, geoff wrote:
>>> On 20/04/2017 9:34 PM, Trevor wrote:
>>>> Actually they are just an amplifier, active equaliser and compressor
>>>> with various stored custom settings like the ones you mention.
>>>> What really ****es me off is that it is so simple now to have Bluetooth
>>>> control from your mobile phone over all parameters of a hearing aid.
>>>> Sadly there are no aids available that do that simply because the
>>>> Audiologists want to keep their huge profits from fitting and adjusting
>>>> the aids. And some of the ones that do have control over volume and mode
>>>> settings via Bluetooth only work with iPhones because they are too slack
>>>> to write the apps for Android.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Or maybe they don't want every know-all Tom Dick and Harry further
>>> damaging their hearing by inept use and settings ?

>>
>> Yeah that's what the Audiologists want you to believe!!!
>> Not everyone is a complete numpty, although perhaps you are?
>> Sadly most people never get them adjusted to maximum performance because
>> after going back a few times to the audiologist they get sick of it and
>> give up.

>
> And some (my grandmother and my mother) waited until they were deaf
> enough before trying any that they had gotten acclimated to the "quiet"
> that results from being considerably deaf. And after putting them in
> their ears all they wanted to do was turn the volume way down because
> of all the "noise" (all the normal background sounds that those of us
> with normal hearing can't turn off, so our brains learn to ignore it).
> Resulting in significantly reduced effectiveness of the hearing aid,
> and eventual frustration and giving up on the devices as "they just
> don't work".


Not quite as simple as you state though. Hearing aids DO increase
background noise and make it harder to discriminate the desired sounds
from undesired ones than for a person with normal hearing. The most
expensive aids are getting better at this, but still have a long way to
go. The big problem is many people who need them can't afford the most
expensive aids though, and the huge audiologists mark ups only makes
that problem worse!

Trevor.


  #23  
Old April 23rd 17, 04:32 AM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
Dan Espen[_2_]
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Posts: 4
Default [CM] Headphones -> Hearing aids

Trevor > writes:

> On 22/04/2017 1:12 AM, Dan Espen wrote:
>> Hearing aids are mostly not covered by any insurance,
>> let alone US government payments. Who knew audiologists
>> have pension funds? Apparently, only you.

>
> Apparently lots you don't know, like the fact the world consists of
> countries other than the USA! :-)


No, actually I did know that at least Australia pensions it's audiologists.
You could have guessed that when you saw that I mentioned the US.

--
Dan Espen
  #24  
Old April 23rd 17, 09:52 AM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
geoff
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Posts: 1,525
Default [CM] Headphones -> Hearing aids

On 22/04/2017 1:15 AM, ~misfit~ wrote:
> Once upon a time on usenet Trevor wrote:


>> government pension scheme give up, throw them in the draw and never
>> use them. I know a few like that, a complete waste of taxpayer money
>> to subsidise audiologists pension funds. :-(

>
> What's a "draw"?


They raffle them off ?!!!

geoff
  #25  
Old April 23rd 17, 09:56 AM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
geoff
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Posts: 1,525
Default [CM] Headphones -> Hearing aids

On 22/04/2017 8:29 AM, Julian Macassey wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 11:12:31 -0400, Dan Espen > wrote:
>>
>> Anyone with hearing loss would do well to continue with annual
>> hearing evaluations.
>>
>> My audiologist uses some Windows based software to access
>> the hearing aids,

>
> I'm sorry to hear that. Pity they couldn't have used a
> less mediocre platform.


Given that the operating system would have absolutely no bearing on the
quality of the software, the operation of it, or the results, why ?


Or must serious applications only be used by iDiots or Lidiots ?

geoff
  #26  
Old April 23rd 17, 09:59 AM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
geoff
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Posts: 1,525
Default [CM] Headphones -> Hearing aids

On 22/04/2017 11:04 AM, Julian Macassey wrote:
..
>>
>> okay, my audiologist told me the software wasn't available, but here it
>> is:
>>
>> https://www.phonakpro.com/us/en/supp...downloads.html
>> http://tinyurl.com/me9ozjl

>
> Software and manual I note.
>
>>
>> THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE BY UNQUALIFIED PERSONS AS A NON-HEARING CARE
>> PROFESSIONAL CAN RESULT IN PERSONAL INJURY. PHONAK IS EXEMPT FROM ANY
>> LIABILITY WHICH OCCURS BY SUCH UNAUTHORIZED USE.


Image the lawsuits otherwise....


> In other words "NO USER SERVICABLE PARTS INSIDE". We've
> all seen that before.



And isn't that just as well ! I'd be out of a job, and don't fancy
changing to be salesman or mortician.

geoff

  #27  
Old April 23rd 17, 09:59 AM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
geoff
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Posts: 1,525
Default [CM] Hearing aids --> back to Headphones

On 23/04/2017 8:38 AM, RS Wood wrote:
> On 2017-04-21, Dan Espen > wrote:
>> I find unsubstantiated cynicism disturbing. It speaks to paranoia which
>> is a mental illness. Hearing aids are mostly not covered by any
>> insurance, let alone US government payments. Who knew audiologists have
>> pension funds? Apparently, only you.

>
> An interesting and unfortunate segue. Turns out Bose headphones have just
> been observed sending data back to headquarters that includes some
> surprisingly personal data, like lists of the songs you're listening to.
> You've got to install their Bose app on your smartphone for this to happen,
> and you don't necessarily need the app. Still, an issue.
>
> http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...teners-n748311
>
> You can see where a bunch of audio engineers would find value in knowing
> what songs were actually being listened to so they can tailor the equipment
> to play that music well. Still, an issue.
>
> Lots of nerd rage at Hacker News:
> http://fortune.com/2017/04/19/bose-headphones-privacy/
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14148145
>



Anybody who buys Bose anything serves them right.

geoff
  #28  
Old April 23rd 17, 10:02 AM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
geoff
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Posts: 1,525
Default [CM] Headphones -> Hearing aids

On 23/04/2017 2:28 PM, Trevor wrote:
..
>
> I must have missed where ANYONE suggested otherwise?


I got the impression that your whole angle in this topic was to
trivialise the value of the input of the audiology profession.

geoff

  #29  
Old April 23rd 17, 10:05 AM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
geoff
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Posts: 1,525
Default [CM] Headphones -> Hearing aids

On 22/04/2017 4:54 AM, Johnny B Good wrote:

> frequency. Continuous exposure to high SPLs accelerates this reduction in
> the maximum frequency limit of hearing in each individual's case. It's
> quite important to tailor a hearing aid's frequency response and gain so
> as to avoid needlessly doing more harm than good.
>



I don't know enough about it to have an opinion other that the concept
of boost level at various frequencies could do immense more harm.

..... like if I'm 20dB down at 14kHz, boosting that 14kHz by 20dB would
seem more likely to destroy whatever was left around there real quick !

geoff
  #30  
Old April 23rd 17, 10:07 AM posted to comp.misc,rec.audio.tech
geoff
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Posts: 1,525
Default [CM] Headphones -> Hearing aids

On 23/04/2017 2:09 PM, Trevor wrote:

>
> What a load of crap, most hearing aids don't go past 8kHz. The damage is
> already done by loud rock bands and perhaps using MP3 players at
> excessive levels. Still I agree for people like yourself who are
> apparently unable to do the job properly, better leave it to a
> professional. I guess you have an audiologist adjust you HiFi volume and
> TV volume control as well! :-)



If you adjust your hifi to your own hearing response, I'd hate to live
in the same house.

geoff

 




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