Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
#1
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Monitors - Is More Expensive Always More Neutral?
I think there's a presumption by many that the more expensive
a monitor is, the more honest and neutral it is. In your opinion, is that true? As an aside, I assume more neutral doesn't equate to more pleasing, as honesty isn't necessarily flattering. |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Monitors - Is More Expensive Always More Neutral?
On Thursday, September 20, 2018 at 2:06:28 PM UTC-5, James Price wrote:
I think there's a presumption by many that the more expensive a monitor is, the more honest and neutral it is. In your opinion, is that true? As an aside, I assume more neutral doesn't equate to more pleasing, as honesty isn't necessarily flattering. I'd say no. More expensive can mean higher maximum output levels rather than greater neutrality, and that's a legitimate goal in certain applications. Peace, Paul Stamler |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Monitors - Is More Expensive Always More Neutral?
PStamler wrote:
On Thursday, September 20, 2018 at 2:06:28 PM UTC-5, James Price wrote: I think there's a presumption by many that the more expensive a monitor is, the more honest and neutral it is. In your opinion, is that true? As an aside, I assume more neutral doesn't equate to more pleasing, as honesty isn't necessarily flattering. I'd say no. More expensive can mean higher maximum output levels rather than greater neutrality, and that's a legitimate goal in certain applications. Peace, Paul Stamler I'd take Eminence as the present-day archetypical driver company, and from what I have seen, the higher power they are, the less sensitive they are. Seems like an adaptation to Class D power. I don't know what more expensive means in terms of monitors. -- Les Cargill |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Monitors - Is More Expensive Always More Neutral?
James Price wrote:
I think there's a presumption by many that the more expensive a monitor is, the more honest and neutral it is. In your opinion, is that true? No, but studio monitors are ALSO designed to be loud without distortion, and they are designed to be difficult to damage when someone repatches something incorrectly. Some more expensive monitors are designed to run loud at the expense of performance at lower levels. If people work that way, they are a good choice, if they don't, they aren't. Some more expensive monitors are designed with very tight dispersion to get an "up-front" sound in a small control room and to deal better with poorly treated control rooms. This invariably comes with sonic artifacts, but in some rooms they can be a huge win. On the other hand, in a better control room, they are a poor choice. It's too wide a generalization, but you CAN generalize within some product lines. For example, the Genelec 8000 series monitors are all pretty much voiced similarly. You go up in the line and you spend more money and you get the same basic characteristics but better sound. On the other hand, the older Genelec 1000-series monitors all sounded totally different and had very different dispersion and tonal character. You could spend more money and get a monitor that was worse for your application. As an aside, I assume more neutral doesn't equate to more pleasing, as honesty isn't necessarily flattering. Definitely not, but I don't want to be pleased by bad sound. If something sounds wrong, I want to notice it as soon as possible, before the customer does. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Monitors - Is More Expensive Always More Neutral?
On 21/09/2018 7:22 am, Scott Dorsey wrote:
James Price wrote: As an aside, I assume more neutral doesn't equate to more pleasing, as honesty isn't necessarily flattering. Definitely not, but I don't want to be pleased by bad sound. If something sounds wrong, I want to notice it as soon as possible, before the customer does. Yep, and once you go down that track, what sounds more 'flattering" on some music will sound less so on others anyway. Far better to have as much neutrality as possible within the constraints of whatever parameters are deemed necessary for your own situation. |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Monitors - Is More Expensive Always More Neutral?
On Thursday, September 20, 2018 at 1:06:28 PM UTC-6, James Price wrote:
I think there's a presumption by many that the more expensive a monitor is, the more honest and neutral it is. In your opinion, is that true? As an aside, I assume more neutral doesn't equate to more pleasing, as honesty isn't necessarily flattering. Price is not the determining factor. How the speaker sounds is what matters. I have a pair of JBL L300 Summits They are absolutely lovely speakers and I really like them on my home system. I tried to use them for studio monitors and they didn't work at all. It didn't matter what garbage I played on them, it always seemed to sound good. I currently use a set of JBL 4430's which are really a decent studio monitor though I find that they lack really low bass. What I like about the 4430 is that I can determine immediately how the vocals sit in the mix. I seem to hear the music in layers from front to back and those speakers really define that. The other speakers that I used that sounded very similar to the 4430's were a set of Fostex 8" coaxials that had very much the same characteristics. Unfortunately I had to retire them to my living room system when the tweeter assemblies became unavailable. There was a tremendous difference in price between the two sets but both were what i would consider neutral rather than flattering. |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Monitors - Is More Expensive Always More Neutral?
Richard Kuschel wrote:
The other speakers that I used that sounded very similar to the 4430's were= a set of Fostex 8" coaxials that had very much the same characteristics. U= nfortunately I had to retire them to my living room system when the tweeter= assemblies became unavailable.=20 If they are RM780s or use the same drivers, then there is a pull available on ebay right now. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Monitors - Is More Expensive Always More Neutral?
This is why you need larger monitors:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bno-qsnbUA --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Monitors - Is More Expensive Always More Neutral?
James Price wrote:
I think there's a presumption by many that the more expensive a monitor is, the more honest and neutral it is. In your opinion, is that true? As an aside, I assume more neutral doesn't equate to more pleasing, as honesty isn't necessarily flattering. There is no telling. I don't get out much, so season accordingly. But the only thing I ever heard tha impressed me as disappearing behind the sound they made were the original Blue Sky 2.1 setups. -- Les Cargill |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Monitors - Is More Expensive Always More Neutral?
On 9/20/2018 3:06 PM, James Price wrote:
I think there's a presumption by many that the more expensive a monitor is, the more honest and neutral it is. In your opinion, is that true? As an aside, I assume more neutral doesn't equate to more pleasing, as honesty isn't necessarily flattering. The purpose of studio monitors has historically been to make problems in the recording process audible, so they didn't have flat frequency responses. Some used concentric speakers to minimize such things as frequency interference between drivers. And, no, I wouldn't call most of them pleasant for casual listening. -- best regards, Neil |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Monitors - Is More Expensive Always More Neutral?
On 9/20/2018 12:06 PM, James Price wrote:
I think there's a presumption by many that the more expensive a monitor is, the more honest and neutral it is. In your opinion, is that true? As an aside, I assume more neutral doesn't equate to more pleasing, as honesty isn't necessarily flattering. The responses on this thread have me wondering, although I'm sure the topic has been beaten to death here, but: How many people here use reference monitors for casual listening, for their everyday listening use? I'm thinking of using my Event TR5s for my bedroom laptop.... E. Power Biggs Bach sounds great on them! --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Monitors - Is More Expensive Always More Neutral?
On 10/12/2018 5:09 AM, Paul wrote:
How many people here use reference monitors for casual listening, for their everyday listening use? These days, fewer and fewer people are using loudspeakers for casual, everyday listening. Some people, however, use "reference monitor" in-ear phones. Â*Â*Â* I'm thinking of using my Event TR5s for my bedroom laptop.... Â*Â*Â* E. Power Biggs Bach sounds great on them! Nothing will blow up. If you have them, and if you like how music sounds with them, there's no reason not to use them. And anyway, in what way, other than marketing, are those "reference monitors?" -- For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Monitors - Is More Expensive Always More Neutral?
Mike Rivers wrote: "If you have them, and if you like how music sounds
with them, there's no reason not to use them. And anyway, in what way, other than marketing, are those "reference monitors?" So the very concept of reference monitors(speakers or phones), is a myth? It's whatever something sounds best on? |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Monitors - Is More Expensive Always More Neutral?
|
#15
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Monitors - Is More Expensive Always More Neutral?
Paul wrote: "
"Reference" monitors, are supposed to have a frequency response that is more "flat", or neutral, than your average consumer grade speakers, which will usually have peaks in the high or lows. " But 'flat' often sounds wrong to the human ear. Where as 'peaks n valleys' can sound more musical, more appealing, to certain individuals. |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Monitors - Is More Expensive Always More Neutral?
In article , Paul wrote:
On 10/12/2018 11:46 AM, wrote: Mike Rivers wrote: "If you have them, and if you like how music sounds with them, there's no reason not to use them. And anyway, in what way, other than marketing, are those "reference monitors?" So the very concept of reference monitors(speakers or phones), is a myth? It's whatever something sounds best on? "Reference" monitors, are supposed to have a frequency response that is more "flat", or neutral, than your average consumer grade speakers, which will usually have peaks in the high or lows. As opposed to "check mix" monitors like NS-10s or Horrortones which are likely intended to emulate consumer speakers. On the gripping hand there are people who use monitors with known colorations to listen to very specific things. Which is why it's not surprising to see four or five sets of monitors in a studio. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#18
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Monitors - Is More Expensive Always More Neutral?
Mike Rivers wrote: "
No. A "reference monitor" is one that doesn't hide any flaws in a mix, as some good sounding speakers do (which is why those speakers sound good). The concept behind a "reference" speaker is that you can hear what's wrong and then fix it so that it will sound good on any speaker. They're not intended for casual listening, but rather, for critical listening when you want to hear things in the mix that might not sound right on some other speaker. " Then I'd rather have reference grade as part of my personal listening system. Would you say that if something advertises itself as 'reference' then it's not? Just advertising, as was said earlier in this thread. |
#19
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Monitors - Is More Expensive Always More Neutral?
Li'l Theckmie gerbilled in message
... So the very concept of reference monitors(speakers or phones), is a myth? That's bull****. It's whatever something sounds best on? That's bull****, too. FCKISFOBS. |
#20
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Monitors - Is More Expensive Always More Neutral?
On Thursday, September 20, 2018 at 3:06:28 PM UTC-4, James Price wrote:
I think there's a presumption by many that the more expensive a monitor is, the more honest and neutral it is. In your opinion, is that true? As an aside, I assume more neutral doesn't equate to more pleasing, as honesty isn't necessarily flattering. You bring up a great point, and there is an implied [but unspoken] point as well, which is the entire acoustical environment, what works best with *your* ears, what translates best, what prevents listener fatigue over a protracted mixing session, and what acoustical treatment you have given to your listening space and how precise is it? I'm afraid this is an eternal discussion. Just make sure that when you send the finished master file over to the [fill in the blank: major label; independent label; streaming service; download service, etc etc] that what the listener hears is exactly what you meant. Cheers! SG |
#21
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Monitors - Is More Expensive Always More Neutral?
On 10/14/2018 4:10 PM, sTeeVee wrote:
On Thursday, September 20, 2018 at 3:06:28 PM UTC-4, James Price wrote: I think there's a presumption by many that the more expensive a monitor is, the more honest and neutral it is. In your opinion, is that true? As an aside, I assume more neutral doesn't equate to more pleasing, as honesty isn't necessarily flattering. You bring up a great point, and there is an implied [but unspoken] point as well, which is the entire acoustical environment, what works best with *your* ears, what translates best, what prevents listener fatigue over a protracted mixing session, and what acoustical treatment you have given to your listening space and how precise is it? I'm afraid this is an eternal discussion. Just make sure that when you send the finished master file over to the [fill in the blank: major label; independent label; streaming service; download service, etc etc] that what the listener hears is exactly what you meant. Cheers! SG Every variable that you mentioned regarding the acoustical environment, plus a few that weren't mentioned such as air pressure and humidity, also applies to the listener's environment (and audio system) and guarantees that one has no idea whether what the listener hears is what one intended. -- best regards, Neil |
Reply |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Expensive carts often more colored sounding, less neutral | Audio Opinions | |||
Why match and expensive CD player to an expensive AV receiver? | Tech | |||
Neutral header on OPTs | Vacuum Tubes |