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#1
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Used rockford cap install...
I just bought a used rockford cap from a friend for $5, I think its a 1
farad but dont know all the lables and markings are worn off. The person I bought it from says he tested it and it works fine, I HAVE NO IDEA!! I've never used one of these in my system and would like to know the proper way to hook one up without blowin myself up. I'm pretty sure its as simple as hookin up an amp, but i'd like to be sure, i dont wont to start my car on fire or anything. I have a small amp in my house hooked up to a power converter, just to test subs and other car electronics, I was planning on testing it on that before hooking it up to the nice system in the car. Also, some people on this site say that you should "charge" the cap before hooking it up, is this true or BS. Thanks for any help 02 civic Si pioneer DEH-P680MP Directed 600D (2) Audiobahn AW-1200 RF 1 farad cap? knowing that your audiobahns will blow away JL's, PRICELESS" |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Used rockford cap install...
yes you should charge it. just prevents from arching and leaving a mark. and as far as hooking it up, ground it first. then charge with diode or bulb, then hook power up, then run power from cap to amp and run ground from cap to amp. that simple. -- bassman07 |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Used rockford cap install...
and how do you go about charging it??
thanks |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Used rockford cap install...
if he didnt include a chargring bulb then you can you a diode. or you can just stick the pwer wire on it. it makes no difference. the diode/charging bulb doenst matter, all it does is prevent an arc and putting a mark on your cap. given its used, it prolly shouldnt matter unless you are like showing it off or something. -- bassman07 |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Used rockford cap install...
thats cool, as i mentioned above, its old and used so all the
'niceness" of it is worn away anyways, now this arc your talking about, is it a BIG arc, and what is the best way to tell if it is workin, right now that amp i have in my house cuts in and out when pushed, i figure its the low amperage of the power converter i'm using, should putting the cap on it reduce this? thanks again |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Used rockford cap install...
All you'd have to do is use any plan old 12v bulb of sorts in replacement of the one normally supplied. Connect a piece of wire to each of two parts of the bulb, connect one wire to the power cable and the other to the cap. Easiest way is to remove the ground from your battery, connect the cap like you are supposed to, and then just reconnect your bat ground. -- John |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Used rockford cap install...
Uhh, okay, some pretty scary "advice" here...
First of all, you say the markings are worn off... are there any polarity (plus/minus) markings? If you hook the cap up backward, it'll very likely blow up (no, I'm not exaggerating). If you need to determine the polarity, there should be enough juice left in it to at least give you a reading on a multimeter. The "minus" terminal connects to ground, the "plus" to power. Second, when charging it, DO NOT simply connect a wire OR A DIODE - it's initially going to appear to the power source as a direct short, and will blow up most any diode you use, and potentially melt or at least severely heat up the wire. USE THE LIGHT BULB as John described. It will limit the current, allowing the cap to charge safely, and when the bulb goes out, you know it's charged. After it's charged, BE VERY CAREFUL NO TO TOUCH BOTH TERMINALS, and don't let any tools short across them. The point of using a cap in a stereo system is that it can discharge large amounts of energy much faster than a battery - if you've ever seen what happens when you short a battery with a wrench, just imagine the same thing, only with a BIGGER spark All that said, I really don't think your system will benefit noticeably from a cap, especially if it's wired properly (sufficient gauge power wire). It may be a neat thing to add as an experiment, but before you do that, I'd strongly recommend looking up some articles on properly installing it - you have the potential here to seriously burn yourself and/or your car. Start he http://www.caraudiohelp.com/car_audi...stallation.htm 1,2,3 and to the 4ohm wrote: I just bought a used rockford cap from a friend for $5, I think its a 1 farad but dont know all the lables and markings are worn off. The person I bought it from says he tested it and it works fine, I HAVE NO IDEA!! I've never used one of these in my system and would like to know the proper way to hook one up without blowin myself up. I'm pretty sure its as simple as hookin up an amp, but i'd like to be sure, i dont wont to start my car on fire or anything. I have a small amp in my house hooked up to a power converter, just to test subs and other car electronics, I was planning on testing it on that before hooking it up to the nice system in the car. Also, some people on this site say that you should "charge" the cap before hooking it up, is this true or BS. Thanks for any help 02 civic Si pioneer DEH-P680MP Directed 600D (2) Audiobahn AW-1200 RF 1 farad cap? knowing that your audiobahns will blow away JL's, PRICELESS" |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Used rockford cap install...
One thing to watch out for is -any- type of leakage, corrosion, or other unusual things around the terminals...this will happen with- some- old caps especially...depends on the components... -- John |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Used rockford cap install...
ok, thanks for the advice. and the cap isnt so old to where you cannot
read the polarity on the top, those are clearly readable, its just the logos and all the "fancy" crap has worn off. and i really doubt that i would benefit much from this as well, maybe gain a couple dB but when your pushing 140+, 1 or 2 isnt going to be an audible difference |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Used rockford cap install...
I hope you weren't serious about the dB gain...because you are not going to gain any decibels by adding a cap...you may even lose some...it is possible in some installs, but not yours, not with this cap, but anyone that guarantees you anything different doesn't understand the mechanics of it or is ignorant. -- John |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Used rockford cap install...
On Nov 10, 5:49 am, John
wrote: I hope you weren't serious about the dB gain...because you are not going to gain any decibels by adding a cap...you may even lose some...it is possible in some installs, but not yours, not with this cap, but anyone that guarantees you anything different doesn't understand the mechanics of it or is ignorant. Okay, I have to bite... Could you explain how one would lose SPL by adding a power supply "stiffening" capacitor? Actually, while I've got your ear (eye?), I'm equally interested in finding out how one might experience a boost in SPL output through the addition of such a capacitor. -dan |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Used rockford cap install...
D.Kreft wrote:
On Nov 10, 5:49 am, John wrote: I hope you weren't serious about the dB gain...because you are not going to gain any decibels by adding a cap...you may even lose some...it is possible in some installs, but not yours, not with this cap, but anyone that guarantees you anything different doesn't understand the mechanics of it or is ignorant. Okay, I have to bite... Could you explain how one would lose SPL by adding a power supply "stiffening" capacitor? I'm kinda curious about that one as well... Actually, while I've got your ear (eye?), I'm equally interested in finding out how one might experience a boost in SPL output through the addition of such a capacitor. One wouldn't. One MAY not experience as much LOSS of output with the cap to smooth out voltage drops... reducing losses isn't really the same thing as gaining... |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Used rockford cap install...
On Nov 11, 1:25 am, Matt Ion wrote:
One wouldn't. C'mon, Matt...don't ruin it--I want to hear what John has to say about this one. One MAY not experience as much LOSS of output with the cap to smooth out voltage drops... reducing losses isn't really the same thing as gaining... Well, as long as the cat is out of the bag... The voltage drops that are going to be smoothed-out are *transient* drops, not sustained voltage sags. So, the correct answer here would be that "transient response of the amplifier *may* be improved, and if the amp has a regulated power supply it *may* also run a bit cooler since the PS won't have to draw more current (and thus dissipate more heat) as the voltage sags during particularly demanding transient passages." The "problem" (for want of a better word) is that capacitors store a very small amount of energy compared to a typical battery, but that's okay because their intended purpose is to smooth out the amplifier's input voltage, not somehow magically increase the amplifier's capabilities. With an amp having an unregulated power supply, the difference between no cap and cap is going to be greater, but it's still not going to result in a net change in any direction of average SPL. -dan |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Used rockford cap install...
look idot pay a installer $40 to put it in..god
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#15
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Used rockford cap install...
john gets his information from a good source, I've seen the test results as well. I wish I could find the thread on CS.o that had it in it, but I can't seem to find the right search words that point me to it. wasn't it loyd who did that john? anyways, a guy did test his system with and without a cap, and he lost a few tenths of a db with it. I believe he attributed it to the car's charging system having to both charge the cap and supply current to the amp once the capacitor is initially discharged. the cap becomes a liability then. if your electrical system is large enough to handle the overall current demand by the amp(s), but just want to smooth out the spikes, they can do that. but if after 2 minutes of playing your voltage is down to a constant 12.5, a cap will be useless. -- KU40 |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Used rockford cap install...
On Nov 11, 3:03 pm, KU40
wrote: wasn't it loyd who did that john? anyways, a guy did test his system with and without a cap, and he lost a few tenths of a db with it. A few *tenths* of a dB SPL? Are you kidding me? That's like withdrawing a cup of water from a swimming pool and saying "The water level in the pool just went down." Sure it went down, but by such an insignificant amount as to be completely immaterial! Depending upon whose reasearch you look at, the minimum detectable change in sound pressure level varies from 0.5 - 1.0 dB SPL (http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/...gAmplitude.php) and no doubt these measurements were performed in an anechoic chamber. Even if one lost, say, 0.5 dB SPL from the system, I'd be willing to bet some paper money that in a typical automotive environment, one would not be able to detect the difference. From a purely pragmatic point of view, there is no loss to be had when adding a power supply "stiffening" cap in an automotive system--insisting to the contrary is silly at best, and asinine at worst. I believe he attributed it to the car's charging system having to both charge the cap and supply current to the amp once the capacitor is initially discharged. the cap becomes a liability then. if your electrical system is large enough to handle the overall current demand by the amp(s), but just want to smooth out the spikes, they can do that. but if after 2 minutes of playing your voltage is down to a constant 12.5, a cap will be useless. Like I said already, the cap is for smoothing out *transient* voltage sags, not boosting the steady-state voltage of your vehicle's electrical system. Once a cap is charged, it acts as an open path to ground (i.e. no current flows through it), so that is not a load on the charging system, and even when the cap is *fully* discharged (and I'm talking about a big 1F cap here), the charging time is virtually instantaneous. But, the cap is never going to be fully discharged--the battery would have to be completely dead for that to happen, and if that's the case, the effect of the cap on the system is the least of your concerns. In the case you cite where your voltage hovers down near around a steady 12.5 V, I wouldn't completely discount the benefits of having a big cap on board, because it'll *still* even out voltage sags. A cap's characteristics (i.e. its voltage response lag) aren't altered by a low system voltage--the only difference is that your baseline voltage will be lower and the amount of "headroom" that the cap will be able to provide is also diminished. In short, a big cap is not a panacea, but I think saying that it'd be "useless" for the case you've cited is going a bit far; "compromised" might be a better way to describe it, but certainly not "useless". -dan -dan |
#17
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Used rockford cap install...
D.Kreft Wrote: A few *tenths* of a dB SPL? Are you kidding me? -dan I'm not kidding you, and I never said it would be noticeable to the ear. I'll revert back to what John said about losing SPL comps by that amount. I've seen it happen. and at any rate, I would never use a cap in my system. the money is much better spent on other upgrades, either a larger alternator or battery. I'd much rather have a large battery with no cap than a small battery with a cap trying to make up for it. sure money isn't really an issue in this case because it was only 5 dollars, but.........the risk of something bad happening goes up a little, especially since it's used. -- KU40 |
#18
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Used rockford cap install...
and at any rate, I would never use a cap in my system. the money is
much better spent on other upgrades, either a larger alternator or battery. A larger battery? I guess if you plan on listening with the engine off quite a bit. Otherwise, a larger battery (or multiple batteries) will just be an additional draw on your electrical system (when the engine is running) and would actually lower your voltage. However, if you are talking about upgrading to a yellow-top Optima, however, THAT IS a good move as they are deep cycle (can be discharged and recharged over and over) and have a lower internal resistance. I do agree that if you had $300 to spend, it would make more sense to put in a larger alternator than, say, a 20 Farad capacitor. A HO alternator is almost always a better way to go if your goal is more bass producing amperage. However, I would disagree with the assertion that caps are useless and do not make a difference. I use four farads in my system (using 5 separate capacitors actually, one for each of my four amps and one next to my battery). I DEFINITELY notice a difference with the caps vs. without the caps, UP TO A POINT. Obviously, caps cannot produce current out of thin air, but WITH the caps, I notice my headlights don't flicker, the bass seems stronger, and the voltage stays rock-steady. But beyond a certain point, the caps simply can't keep up and my voltage will drop like a stone. But I do believe that caps can benefit certain systems. It all depends on the demands you put on your system. MOSFET |
#19
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Used rockford cap install...
MOSFET wrote:
and at any rate, I would never use a cap in my system. the money is much better spent on other upgrades, either a larger alternator or battery. A larger battery? I guess if you plan on listening with the engine off quite a bit. Otherwise, a larger battery (or multiple batteries) will just be an additional draw on your electrical system (when the engine is running) and would actually lower your voltage. However, if you are talking about upgrading to a yellow-top Optima, however, THAT IS a good move as they are deep cycle (can be discharged and recharged over and over) and have a lower internal resistance. Ultimately, a larger battery and/or cap should not IN THEMSELVES be a heavier draw on the alternator *once they're charged*. If either is constantly requiring charging current, it's because the electrical ACCESSORIES (amp(s) and system included) are drawing more current than the alternator can supply, and relying on the battery/cap for their energy demands. I do agree that if you had $300 to spend, it would make more sense to put in a larger alternator than, say, a 20 Farad capacitor. A HO alternator is almost always a better way to go if your goal is more bass producing amperage. True! But I do believe that caps can benefit certain systems. It all depends on the demands you put on your system. Agreed. Unfortunately they're used far too often for the wrong reasons... |
#20
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Used rockford cap install...
Ultimately, a larger battery and/or cap should not IN THEMSELVES be a
heavier draw on the alternator *once they're charged*. OK, Matt, you've touched on an issue I've always been a little unclear about and maybe you can clarify. My understanding has always been that EVEN A FULLY CHARGED battery will draw SOME current because of the internal resistance of the battery (which is why you must supply MORE than 12 volts to charge a 12 volt battery). That was why I said what I did, that adding additional batteries would likely lower your voltage (even if the batteries are fully charged) a little bit. Am I wrong? If you take a fully charged battery and add it to your electrical system, will it have no effect on voltage (granted the decrease would be small, but a decrease none the less)? If I'm wrong, then I suppose there would be no downside in filling your car with batteries, right? Again, I have always worked under the assumption that additional batteries (even when fully charged) do draw some current (albeit not much). Now capacitors are an ENTIRELY different story (as there is no internal resistance). With caps, the more the merrier. In my book, there's no such thing as too much capacitance. MOSFET |
#21
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Used rockford cap install...
MOSFET wrote:
Ultimately, a larger battery and/or cap should not IN THEMSELVES be a heavier draw on the alternator *once they're charged*. OK, Matt, you've touched on an issue I've always been a little unclear about and maybe you can clarify. My understanding has always been that EVEN A FULLY CHARGED battery will draw SOME current because of the internal resistance of the battery (which is why you must supply MORE than 12 volts to charge a 12 volt battery). That was why I said what I did, that adding additional batteries would likely lower your voltage (even if the batteries are fully charged) a little bit. Am I wrong? If you take a fully charged battery and add it to your electrical system, will it have no effect on voltage (granted the decrease would be small, but a decrease none the less)? It would likely draw a small amount of current, but no, there will be no *ongoing* loss of voltage. Assuming your alternator and voltage regulator are working properly, you'll see a slight drop any time a load is added - such as turning on your lights - but the regulator should compensate for that and bring it back up. Remember too that the voltage varies anyway - most cars run around 13.0-13.5V at idle, and this is enough to charge the battery. If I'm wrong, then I suppose there would be no downside in filling your car with batteries, right? In theory, no. In practicality, they'd add a lot of extra weight, and you wouldn't really want to put them INSIDE the car (production of hydrogen gas and all that), so space would be limited. Again, I have always worked under the assumption that additional batteries (even when fully charged) do draw some current (albeit not much). I don't KNOW that they do, but I would expect so (one day I may hook up an ammeter and find out)... even then, it probably wouldn't be any more than a marker light. Just turning on the radio would draw more, forget any amps. In short, IF there's additional current draw, it's not enough to even think about, let alone worry about. Now capacitors are an ENTIRELY different story (as there is no internal resistance). With caps, the more the merrier. In my book, there's no such thing as too much capacitance. Well, except it's a lot of extra expense that most systems don't need. |
#22
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Used rockford cap install...
Not to mention, as far as current draw goes, how many caps have flashing lights of some kind and voltmeters...bad design to boot as the voltmeter cannot be accurate as it draws all of it's power from the very source it is supposed to be monitoring... -- John |
#23
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Used rockford cap install...
Matt Ion schrieb: Uhh, okay, some pretty scary "advice" here... First of all, you say the markings are worn off... are there any polarity (plus/minus) markings? If you hook the cap up backward, it'll very likely blow up (no, I'm not exaggerating). If you need to determine the polarity, there should be enough juice left in it to at least give you a reading on a multimeter. The "minus" terminal connects to ground, the "plus" to power. Second, when charging it, DO NOT simply connect a wire OR A DIODE - it's initially going to appear to the power source as a direct short, and will blow up most any diode you use, and potentially melt or at least severely heat up the wire. USE THE LIGHT BULB as John described. It will limit the current, allowing the cap to charge safely, and when the bulb goes out, you know it's charged. After it's charged, BE VERY CAREFUL NO TO TOUCH BOTH TERMINALS, and don't let any tools short across them. The point of using a cap in a stereo system is that it can discharge large amounts of energy much faster than a battery - if you've ever seen what happens when you short a battery with a wrench, just imagine the same thing, only with a BIGGER spark All that said, I really don't think your system will benefit noticeably from a cap, especially if it's wired properly (sufficient gauge power wire). It may be a neat thing to add as an experiment, but before you do that, I'd strongly recommend looking up some articles on properly installing it - you have the potential here to seriously burn yourself and/or your car. Start he http://www.caraudiohelp.com/car_audi...stallation.htm 1,2,3 and to the 4ohm wrote: I just bought a used rockford cap from a friend for $5, I think its a 1 farad but dont know all the lables and markings are worn off. The person I bought it from says he tested it and it works fine, I HAVE NO IDEA!! I've never used one of these in my system and would like to know the proper way to hook one up without blowin myself up. I'm pretty sure its as simple as hookin up an amp, but i'd like to be sure, i dont wont to start my car on fire or anything. I have a small amp in my house hooked up to a power converter, just to test subs and other car electronics, I was planning on testing it on that before hooking it up to the nice system in the car. Also, some people on this site say that you should "charge" the cap before hooking it up, is this true or BS. Thanks for any help 02 civic Si pioneer DEH-P680MP Directed 600D (2) Audiobahn AW-1200 RF 1 farad cap? knowing that your audiobahns will blow away JL's, PRICELESS" Heelo cool instaltions guide for power caps http://www.powernetshop.at/rockford-...amm/index.html |
#24
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Used rockford cap install...
Chris wrote:
Matt Ion schrieb: Uhh, okay, some pretty scary "advice" here... First of all, you say the markings are worn off... are there any polarity (plus/minus) markings? If you hook the cap up backward, it'll very likely blow up (no, I'm not exaggerating). If you need to determine the polarity, there should be enough juice left in it to at least give you a reading on a multimeter. The "minus" terminal connects to ground, the "plus" to power. Second, when charging it, DO NOT simply connect a wire OR A DIODE - it's initially going to appear to the power source as a direct short, and will blow up most any diode you use, and potentially melt or at least severely heat up the wire. USE THE LIGHT BULB as John described. It will limit the current, allowing the cap to charge safely, and when the bulb goes out, you know it's charged. After it's charged, BE VERY CAREFUL NO TO TOUCH BOTH TERMINALS, and don't let any tools short across them. The point of using a cap in a stereo system is that it can discharge large amounts of energy much faster than a battery - if you've ever seen what happens when you short a battery with a wrench, just imagine the same thing, only with a BIGGER spark All that said, I really don't think your system will benefit noticeably from a cap, especially if it's wired properly (sufficient gauge power wire). It may be a neat thing to add as an experiment, but before you do that, I'd strongly recommend looking up some articles on properly installing it - you have the potential here to seriously burn yourself and/or your car. Start he http://www.caraudiohelp.com/car_audi...stallation.htm 1,2,3 and to the 4ohm wrote: I just bought a used rockford cap from a friend for $5, I think its a 1 farad but dont know all the lables and markings are worn off. The person I bought it from says he tested it and it works fine, I HAVE NO IDEA!! I've never used one of these in my system and would like to know the proper way to hook one up without blowin myself up. I'm pretty sure its as simple as hookin up an amp, but i'd like to be sure, i dont wont to start my car on fire or anything. I have a small amp in my house hooked up to a power converter, just to test subs and other car electronics, I was planning on testing it on that before hooking it up to the nice system in the car. Also, some people on this site say that you should "charge" the cap before hooking it up, is this true or BS. Thanks for any help 02 civic Si pioneer DEH-P680MP Directed 600D (2) Audiobahn AW-1200 RF 1 farad cap? knowing that your audiobahns will blow away JL's, PRICELESS" Heelo cool instaltions guide for power caps http://www.powernetshop.at/rockford-...amm/index.html Ya, nice SPAM, ****er. |
#25
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Used rockford cap install...
cool instaltions guide for power caps http://www.powernetshop.at/rockford-...amm/index.html Ya, nice SPAM, ****er. Nice? It's all in German! German SPAM? |
#26
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Used rockford cap install...
In article , "MOSFET" wrote:
cool instaltions guide for power caps http://www.powernetshop.at/rockford-...-programm/inde x.html Ya, nice SPAM, ****er. Nice? It's all in German! German SPAM? And I type in MB an get nothing! greg |
#27
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Used rockford cap install...
On Nov 11, 2:04 pm, (bob wald) wrote:
look idot pay a installer $40 to put it in..god Ahh...webtv at its finest. In 10 years, nothing has changed. When hurling geological specimens at great velocities, one must take care not to do so from within fragile, transparent domiciles. Besides, what has the Illinois Department of Transportation (IDOT) have to do with anything? -dan |
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