Live8 has just started here in Hyde Park with U2 and Paul McCartney.

The quality of the sound is FABULOUS. Congratulations to whoever has
put this together.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Don Pearce wrote:

Live8 has just started here in Hyde Park with U2 and Paul McCartney.

The quality of the sound is FABULOUS. Congratulations to whoever has
put this together.

Where are you listening ?

I've just been considering trying to contact the BBC to mention that the
sound ( stereo Nicam ) on my TV is truly dreadful ! I recall a few
months back for example that the Beeb broadcast U2 live from in front of
the BBC TV Centre as the culmination to one of the ToTP shows playing
Vertigo when it was officially released. The sound Rocked. This time (
from Hyde Park ) it was a feeble and sad representation.

Sounds almost like someone put an SM58 spit in front of the
stacks. :-(

Whatever they're doing, they sure aren't taking a feed off the FOH,
unless the sound is even worse than I can believe.

I am *desperately* embarrassed ! So much effort to do this and it sounds
**** !

Be interested to see if the Yanks screw it up equally badly when Philly
goes live.


Graham

On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 15:03:02 +0100, Pooh Bear
wrote:


Don Pearce wrote:

Live8 has just started here in Hyde Park with U2 and Paul McCartney.

The quality of the sound is FABULOUS. Congratulations to whoever has
put this together.

Where are you listening ?

I've just been considering trying to contact the BBC to mention that the
sound ( stereo Nicam ) on my TV is truly dreadful ! I recall a few
months back for example that the Beeb broadcast U2 live from in front of
the BBC TV Centre as the culmination to one of the ToTP shows playing
Vertigo when it was officially released. The sound Rocked. This time (
from Hyde Park ) it was a feeble and sad representation.

Sounds almost like someone put an SM58 spit in front of the
stacks. :-(

Whatever they're doing, they sure aren't taking a feed off the FOH,
unless the sound is even worse than I can believe.

I am *desperately* embarrassed ! So much effort to do this and it sounds
**** !

Be interested to see if the Yanks screw it up equally badly when Philly
goes live.


Graham

It was great for U2 and Coldplay, but now it has all gone horrible. I
clearly spoke too soon. Maybe they were the ones who cared enough to
do proper sound checks.

Pete Docherty is on right now, and he is just embarrassing on every
level possible - talentless and poor sound in one package. Shame.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Don Pearce wrote:

Live8 has just started here in Hyde Park with U2 and Paul McCartney.

The quality of the sound is FABULOUS. Congratulations to whoever has
put this together.

Further to my earlier comment, I just reviewed part of the U2 set I
videoed.

The drums sound like a set of saucepan lids being played. And there is
*no* bass whatever of any consequence anywhere. Never mind the
indifferent vocal quality.

I'd compare the sound to listening over a 60s Japanese portable
transistor AM radio.


Graham :-(

Don Pearce wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 15:03:02 +0100, Pooh Bear
wrote:


Don Pearce wrote:

Live8 has just started here in Hyde Park with U2 and Paul McCartney.

The quality of the sound is FABULOUS. Congratulations to whoever has
put this together.

Where are you listening ?

I've just been considering trying to contact the BBC to mention that the
sound ( stereo Nicam ) on my TV is truly dreadful ! I recall a few
months back for example that the Beeb broadcast U2 live from in front of
the BBC TV Centre as the culmination to one of the ToTP shows playing
Vertigo when it was officially released. The sound Rocked. This time (
from Hyde Park ) it was a feeble and sad representation.

Sounds almost like someone put an SM58 spit in front of the
stacks. :-(

Whatever they're doing, they sure aren't taking a feed off the FOH,
unless the sound is even worse than I can believe.

I am *desperately* embarrassed ! So much effort to do this and it sounds
**** !

Be interested to see if the Yanks screw it up equally badly when Philly
goes live.


Graham

It was great for U2 and Coldplay, but now it has all gone horrible. I
clearly spoke too soon. Maybe they were the ones who cared enough to
do proper sound checks.

That would help, but any competent sound engineer can adapt to another band
pretty fast.

Actually, I gather quite a number of the bands did sound checks.


Pete Docherty is on right now, and he is just embarrassing on every
level possible - talentless and poor sound in one package. Shame.

Maybe your enthusiasm carried you away U2 and Macca ?

I just reviewed it and it's awful. It's 'telephone line quality' for God's
sake !

I *know* the BBC can do so, so much better than this. Whoever is responsible
for this monumental cock-up needs to be hung, drawn and quartered and have
their guts used as garters.

Graham

the xm broadcast isnt horrible


"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...

Don Pearce wrote:

Live8 has just started here in Hyde Park with U2 and Paul McCartney.

The quality of the sound is FABULOUS. Congratulations to whoever has
put this together.

Further to my earlier comment, I just reviewed part of the U2 set I
videoed.

The drums sound like a set of saucepan lids being played. And there is
*no* bass whatever of any consequence anywhere. Never mind the
indifferent vocal quality.

I'd compare the sound to listening over a 60s Japanese portable
transistor AM radio.


Graham :-(

On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 15:18:25 +0100, Pooh Bear
wrote:


Don Pearce wrote:

Live8 has just started here in Hyde Park with U2 and Paul McCartney.

The quality of the sound is FABULOUS. Congratulations to whoever has
put this together.

Further to my earlier comment, I just reviewed part of the U2 set I
videoed.

The drums sound like a set of saucepan lids being played. And there is
*no* bass whatever of any consequence anywhere. Never mind the
indifferent vocal quality.

I'd compare the sound to listening over a 60s Japanese portable
transistor AM radio.


Graham :-(

I'm listening on digital telly, and there is masses of bass. My sub is
getting quite a workout. Maybe there is a problem with your local
feed.

Youssou'n'Dour and Dido now, and the quality is back.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Don Pearce wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 15:18:25 +0100, Pooh Bear
wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:

Live8 has just started here in Hyde Park with U2 and Paul McCartney.

The quality of the sound is FABULOUS. Congratulations to whoever has
put this together.

Further to my earlier comment, I just reviewed part of the U2 set I
videoed.

The drums sound like a set of saucepan lids being played. And there is
*no* bass whatever of any consequence anywhere. Never mind the
indifferent vocal quality.

I'd compare the sound to listening over a 60s Japanese portable
transistor AM radio.


Graham :-(

I'm listening on digital telly, and there is masses of bass. My sub is
getting quite a workout. Maybe there is a problem with your local
feed.

Youssou'n'Dour and Dido now, and the quality is back.

Yeah, Dido sounded better here too but let's face, it you only need *one
mic* open to do that mainly ! She has a nice voice too - even at telephone
quality. I noticed a distinct absence of treble this time.

After fiddling with my sound source options I discovered that there was
indeed some stereo effect but it seems to have vanished again.

It's so bad, I keep thinking I must have just got a hearing defect - or my
gear just went awfully wrong ! I try to find the cotton wool in my ears but
there is none !

My feed comes from the local cable franchise btw. Should simply be a pure
copy of the BBC broadcast.

Best of luck with your feed, Graham


( so sad btw - I'm simply tempted to turn it off )

On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 15:56:16 +0100, Pooh Bear
wrote:

Yeah, Dido sounded better here too but let's face, it you only need *one
mic* open to do that mainly ! She has a nice voice too - even at telephone
quality. I noticed a distinct absence of treble this time.

For definite then, your feed is not the same one I'm listening to.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Iain Fraser wrote:

the xm broadcast isnt horrible

xm ? I'm not in the USA.

Graham

sorry - xm satellite radio - i dont get BBC tv so i guess we're even


"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...

Iain Fraser wrote:

the xm broadcast isnt horrible

xm ? I'm not in the USA.

Graham

Don Pearce wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 15:56:16 +0100, Pooh Bear
wrote:

Yeah, Dido sounded better here too but let's face, it you only need *one
mic* open to do that mainly ! She has a nice voice too - even at telephone
quality. I noticed a distinct absence of treble this time.

For definite then, your feed is not the same one I'm listening to.

I kinda meant I can't discern any 'life' in the sound. Certainly nothing much
above say 6 kHz.. ( Shure mics ? )

Maybe the repeater on this circuit is ****ed ?

I just had to play a P.G. CD to assure myself I hadn't just developed a hearing
defect ! My hearing is thankfully in apparently fine order !

What gets me as much as anything is that the sound seems to vary betweem mono
and stereo !

I'm almost guessing that someone is monitoringr the 'mono compatabilty' feed in
preference to the stereo feed. The stereo sounds 'phasey'. When there *is* some
stereo ! Also that might explain the apparent lack of bass early on. A phase
reverse somewhere might have done that.

Graham

p.s. I turned the TV off now. REM was the final killer.

Iain Fraser wrote:

sorry - xm satellite radio - i dont get BBC tv so i guess we're even

Do they netcast ? I haven't got real player installed on this PC that might
make that easy to find. But I could re-install.

I turned the TV off anyway when REM came on ! I have my limits.

Graham

On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:36:47 +0100, Pooh Bear
wrote:

p.s. I turned the TV off now. REM was the final killer.

Then you missed the horror that was Ms Dynamite, lecturing the
audience with a song based on the political awareness of a three year
old.

Keane are on now, doing a good job considering that they are crap. I
have now overdosed on "Make some noise!"

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

xmradio.com might be webbing - not sure

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...

Iain Fraser wrote:

sorry - xm satellite radio - i dont get BBC tv so i guess we're even

Do they netcast ? I haven't got real player installed on this PC that
might
make that easy to find. But I could re-install.

I turned the TV off anyway when REM came on ! I have my limits.

Graham

Don Pearce wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:36:47 +0100, Pooh Bear
wrote:

p.s. I turned the TV off now. REM was the final killer.

Then you missed the horror that was Ms Dynamite, lecturing the
audience with a song based on the political awareness of a three year
old.

Oh dear ! Mind you ..... with a name like that ? What do you expect ?
Even Vicky Becks could likely do better ! And *that's* saying something !



Keane are on now, doing a good job considering that they are crap. I
have now overdosed on "Make some noise!"

Oh well, I just turned it on again after playing some Peter Gabriel on
the CD player to assure myself that my ears still work ok ( they do ).

I'll work myself up for the next insult to my ears. Btw, the sound from
Jonathan Ross's 'capsule' sounds clearer to me than the music.


Cheers, Graham

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...


I just reviewed it and it's awful. It's 'telephone line quality' for God's
sake !

Don't know what you guys are talking about....it sounds great on my laptop
speaker at 128k!

Pooh Bear wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:36:47 +0100, Pooh Bear
wrote:

p.s. I turned the TV off now. REM was the final killer.

Then you missed the horror that was Ms Dynamite, lecturing the
audience with a song based on the political awareness of a three year
old.

Oh dear ! Mind you ..... with a name like that ? What do you expect ?
Even Vicky Becks could likely do better ! And *that's* saying something !

Keane are on now, doing a good job considering that they are crap. I
have now overdosed on "Make some noise!"

Oh well, I just turned it on again after playing some Peter Gabriel on
the CD player to assure myself that my ears still work ok ( they do ).

I'll work myself up for the next insult to my ears. Btw, the sound from
Jonathan Ross's 'capsule' sounds clearer to me than the music.

Update.....

Will Smith was on stage talking loads of sense. I like him as an a actor and
I like him even more as a no-nonsence talking person now too.

He cut-away to a pre-recorded piece and suddenly there was actually some
discernible treble !

Clearly their live feed is screwed. Shortly afterwards there was an
interruption in the feed. Along the lines of
ccchhsssffftrerpptrtbhseffffteewwweetttssss. Someone's installed a **** RF
link ! No surprise it sounds crap.

Graham

More update......

I forget who it was now who came on stage. The band fired up. The lead vocal mic
had clearly been 'dimmed' and needed pulling up.

You could almost hear the engineer thinking - where's that damn fader ?

Took about 3 secs to correct !

Digital desk maybe with the dumb**** 'virtual channels' ? Either that - proving
that you should never *ever* use 'assignable' desks for demanding live use or
that the engineer responsible is utterly clueless. If there is *one* fader you
should have your finger on at the commencement of a new set.......

Later in the same number, the camera cut to some strings.

Shame that their sound wasn't actually there !

I've pretty much written off 'live 8' as a total ****-up in the sound dept..

Or is this 'normal' now ?

Graham

If you think the sound of Live 8 is bad, wait til they screw up the
donations!

Nothing like lining the pockets of corrupt dictators in Africa, never
gets to the people.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

wrote in message oups.com...

If you think the sound of Live 8 is bad, wait til they screw up the
donations!

Donations !?!

I thought that was "debt relief"... the cancellation of IOU's to the US.

Nothing like lining the pockets of corrupt dictators in Africa, never
gets to the people.

Pooh Bear wrote:
Digital desk maybe with the dumb**** 'virtual channels' ? Either that
- proving that you should never *ever* use 'assignable' desks for
demanding live use or that the engineer responsible is utterly
clueless. If there is *one* fader you should have your finger on at
the commencement of a new set.......

Digital rocks. Engineers who are ignoring digital and are lost at the sight
of a PM1, PM5 or a Digico are fooling themselves into history.

However - on the Live8 topic - am watching on Freeview, through a prologic
decoder, monitor audio speakers (my "home" rig... could go to the "office"
and listen on Tannoys) and the main BBC screwup for me has been atrocious
lipsync problems earlier on, Dido / Youssou N'Dour was over 1 second out.
Madonna is spot on.

Anyone got a kit list for this gig? I notice Turbo monitors in the stage
front but not had clear view of stacks and FOH...

Oh, and PB - can you email me, timskemp at gmail dot com, emailed you last
week and didn't get a rpely...

--
"Excuse me, would you mind not farting while I'm saving the world?"

"Would you rather silent but deadly?"

I was just listening to Dave Matthews at Philly and I swear it did the same
thing, mono then stereo - it's not random, it was between songs as if it was
deliberate.
--
Phil Wilson

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...

Don Pearce wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 15:56:16 +0100, Pooh Bear
wrote:

Yeah, Dido sounded better here too but let's face, it you only need *one
mic* open to do that mainly ! She has a nice voice too - even at
telephone
quality. I noticed a distinct absence of treble this time.

For definite then, your feed is not the same one I'm listening to.

I kinda meant I can't discern any 'life' in the sound. Certainly nothing
much
above say 6 kHz.. ( Shure mics ? )

Maybe the repeater on this circuit is ****ed ?

I just had to play a P.G. CD to assure myself I hadn't just developed a
hearing
defect ! My hearing is thankfully in apparently fine order !

What gets me as much as anything is that the sound seems to vary betweem
mono
and stereo !

I'm almost guessing that someone is monitoringr the 'mono compatabilty'
feed in
preference to the stereo feed. The stereo sounds 'phasey'. When there *is*
some
stereo ! Also that might explain the apparent lack of bass early on. A
phase
reverse somewhere might have done that.

Graham

p.s. I turned the TV off now. REM was the final killer.

Tim S Kemp wrote:

Pooh Bear wrote:
Digital desk maybe with the dumb**** 'virtual channels' ? Either that
- proving that you should never *ever* use 'assignable' desks for
demanding live use or that the engineer responsible is utterly
clueless. If there is *one* fader you should have your finger on at
the commencement of a new set.......

Digital rocks. Engineers who are ignoring digital and are lost at the sight
of a PM1, PM5 or a Digico are fooling themselves into history.

It's the 'virtual channels' ! NO bloody damn good in a demanding live
environment. You need to be able to access the right fader, knob, etc within
10s ? of milliseconds. Digital control surfaces stops that being possible.


However - on the Live8 topic - am watching on Freeview, through a prologic
decoder, monitor audio speakers (my "home" rig... could go to the "office"
and listen on Tannoys) and the main BBC screwup for me has been atrocious
lipsync problems earlier on, Dido / Youssou N'Dour was over 1 second out.

Yet another digital screw-up.

Thankfully analogue *can't* do that ! I didn't hear *that* particular problem !

Madonna is spot on.

Yeah, The first decent act. I listened to it carefully and got it. She brought
her own engineer ! For sure ! I'd put money on it ! Not actually too surprised.
I bet she's done gigs before where they screwed up.

As the sound gradually improved during her set I realised what was going on.
Someone ( been there myself ) fighting with a crap mix to sort it out.

You'll notice that at the very end of her set the sound was almost spot on.

Even the kit wasn't sounding like someone thumping a piece of hardboard !

Anyone got a kit list for this gig? I notice Turbo monitors in the stage
front but not had clear view of stacks and FOH...

From one view I also thought I saw rust on the floor monitor grilles.

To me it sounds like a 'B rig' with a 'C rig' crew.

Oh, and PB - can you email me, timskemp at gmail dot com, emailed you last
week and didn't get a rpely...

Ahhh - ok - only check that account approx weekly. Consider it done.

Graham

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...
Or is this 'normal' now ?

I don't go to that many concerts nowadays, but almost without exception the
sound ranges from "needs serious improvement" to "truly atrocious". I can
understand how things can get out of control when you have a lot of
different bands and engineers trying to share the same same rig, but even at
most normal concerts the sound is just plain bad. I don't know where the
blame lies, but I'm inclined to believe that the promoters just don't care
as long as they don't have to issue refunds, and the engineers are just
trying to do the best they can with what they've got. I refuse to believe
that many people with wooden ears decided to run sound for a living.

Sean

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...
Tim S Kemp wrote:

Pooh Bear wrote:
Digital desk maybe with the dumb**** 'virtual channels' ? Either that
- proving that you should never *ever* use 'assignable' desks for
demanding live use or that the engineer responsible is utterly
clueless. If there is *one* fader you should have your finger on at
the commencement of a new set.......

Digital rocks. Engineers who are ignoring digital and are lost at the
sight
of a PM1, PM5 or a Digico are fooling themselves into history.

It's the 'virtual channels' ! NO bloody damn good in a demanding live
environment. You need to be able to access the right fader, knob, etc
within
10s ? of milliseconds. Digital control surfaces stops that being possible.

Digital does rock, and is not so much the future, is is the now. Engineers
who don't realise that may as well think about retiring.
It all comes down to how good the engineer is controlling the desk, and how
good he is at programming it, and how much foresight he has to program it
well ... if there is a channel you need access to then you make sure it is
accessable from every page, and if the new band are one you are ready on
their page, etc. It all comes down to how experienced the engineer is on
that desk as to how quick he can get around it, and how good he is at
programming it appropriately for the gig. This goes for analog too, though
not so much. If everything has been advanced properly, then the desk can be
set up before the gig at the engineers home on his laptop.

After a couple of months of using a PM1D I find I can get around things
quick - I find it easier to flip the desk - so bring all the right side of
the desk (channels 25-48) to the left hand side where i am standing, i find
this easier and quicker than me moving to the other side of the desk. It
took a bit of getting used to to be able to do that, and be able to get my
head around the channels moving around, but now i find it so much easier.

Don't discount digital desks. IF programmed well they make life easier, and
do so much more than an old fashioned desk can, save space and weight etc
etc etc

I have a new multimedia computer. Watching the concerts on MTV and VH1
and also watching the live streaming feeds on AOL, and the sound is
better on AOL.

Not bad, about what I would expect for such a diverse concert with many
bands and a short time to set each one up. Looking forward to Pink
Floyd, shortly.

Paul Matthews wrote:
Pooh Bear wrote:
That would help, but any competent sound engineer can adapt to
another band pretty fast.

Maybe that's the issue. I expect the bands have their own
engineers.Maybe some of the engineers are not great in this rapid
turnaround environment? Also where are the engineers working FOH in
the park or offsite for the broadcast?

Then the mix will probably be different for the broadcast...

I would expect there to be the usual split for the broadcast, or maybe
another surface

--
"Excuse me, would you mind not farting while I'm saving the world?"

"Would you rather silent but deadly?"

Pooh Bear wrote:

It's the 'virtual channels' ! NO bloody damn good in a demanding live
environment. You need to be able to access the right fader, knob, etc
within 10s ? of milliseconds. Digital control surfaces stops that
being possible.

Indeedy, however what happens when you mix digital (and my work is much
smaller venues than this) is you get used to how your consoles work. Leaving
a channel muted is unforgivable analogue or digital.

King Robbie is on now. Proper entertainer, well engineered, sounding like he
always does. Nice band too.

However - on the Live8 topic - am watching on Freeview, through a
prologic decoder, monitor audio speakers (my "home" rig... could go
to the "office" and listen on Tannoys) and the main BBC screwup for
me has been atrocious lipsync problems earlier on, Dido / Youssou
N'Dour was over 1 second out.

Yet another digital screw-up.

Thankfully analogue *can't* do that ! I didn't hear *that* particular
problem !


Madonna is spot on.

Yeah, The first decent act. I listened to it carefully and got it.
She brought her own engineer ! For sure ! I'd put money on it ! Not
actually too surprised. I bet she's done gigs before where they
screwed up.

Damn right she will have, as will Robbie, as will Floyd. Mariah Carey
sounded worse than normal though...

Musically the Robbie set is best so far. I hope my neighbours are enjoying
listening to this...

As the sound gradually improved during her set I realised what was
going on. Someone ( been there myself ) fighting with a crap mix to
sort it out.

You'll notice that at the very end of her set the sound was almost
spot on.

Even the kit wasn't sounding like someone thumping a piece of
hardboard !

Again, Robbies drummer had real presence... To be fair whenever you do
stuff like this the headline bands get the best treatment. Sting did well I
think.


Anyone got a kit list for this gig? I notice Turbo monitors in the
stage front but not had clear view of stacks and FOH...

From one view I also thought I saw rust on the floor monitor grilles.

To me it sounds like a 'B rig' with a 'C rig' crew.

Oh, and PB - can you email me, timskemp at gmail dot com, emailed
you last week and didn't get a rpely...

Ahhh - ok - only check that account approx weekly. Consider it done.

Graham

Ta

--
"Excuse me, would you mind not farting while I'm saving the world?"

"Would you rather silent but deadly?"

Joe Sensor wrote:
I have a new multimedia computer. Watching the concerts on MTV and VH1
and also watching the live streaming feeds on AOL, and the sound is
better on AOL.

Not bad, about what I would expect for such a diverse concert with
many bands and a short time to set each one up. Looking forward to
Pink Floyd, shortly.

Many people are watching it out of charitable conscience, others for the
between band "entertainment". Music lovers are waiting for the Floyd...

OMG Peter Kay is singing Amarillo....


--
"Excuse me, would you mind not farting while I'm saving the world?"

"Would you rather silent but deadly?"

Tim S Kemp wrote:


Many people are watching it out of charitable conscience, others for the
between band "entertainment". Music lovers are waiting for the Floyd...

Sound? Are you kidding" FLOYD ROCKED!! And it sounded awesome. I have it
cranked in the studio phones and it sounds incredible!!
History in the making.

On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 21:09:40 +0100, Pooh Bear wrote:

Tim S Kemp wrote:

Pooh Bear wrote:
Digital desk maybe with the dumb**** 'virtual channels' ? Either that
- proving that you should never *ever* use 'assignable' desks for
demanding live use or that the engineer responsible is utterly
clueless. If there is *one* fader you should have your finger on at
the commencement of a new set.......

Digital rocks. Engineers who are ignoring digital and are lost at the sight
of a PM1, PM5 or a Digico are fooling themselves into history.

It's the 'virtual channels' ! NO bloody damn good in a demanding live
environment. You need to be able to access the right fader, knob, etc within
10s ? of milliseconds. Digital control surfaces stops that being possible.


However - on the Live8 topic - am watching on Freeview, through a prologic
decoder, monitor audio speakers (my "home" rig... could go to the "office"
and listen on Tannoys) and the main BBC screwup for me has been atrocious
lipsync problems earlier on, Dido / Youssou N'Dour was over 1 second out.

Yet another digital screw-up.

Thankfully analogue *can't* do that ! I didn't hear *that* particular problem !

Madonna is spot on.

Yeah, The first decent act. I listened to it carefully and got it. She brought
her own engineer ! For sure ! I'd put money on it ! Not actually too surprised.
I bet she's done gigs before where they screwed up.

As the sound gradually improved during her set I realised what was going on.
Someone ( been there myself ) fighting with a crap mix to sort it out.


No you bloody haven't been there
Its absolutely clear that you have only done small time local stuff and
have never been near a large modern sound company system in a Hyde Park
type event doing a simultaneous broadcast otherwise you would be aware
that the television mix comes from a split mix to a BBC mobile and off an
ENTIRELY different console to whatever the live engineer is mixing on.
All the major acts get to rehearse with their consoles and monitors and
store all their settings before the events and the live mix would be
already dialed in from the start.

Tim S Kemp wrote:
However - on the Live8 topic - am watching on Freeview, through a prologic
decoder, monitor audio speakers (my "home" rig... could go to the "office"
and listen on Tannoys) and the main BBC screwup for me has been atrocious
lipsync problems earlier on, Dido / Youssou N'Dour was over 1 second out.
Madonna is spot on.

No lip-sync error here (DTT off Crystal Palace) but I have seen some
cheap Freeview boxes loose audio/video sync for a while then snap back
into place.

--
Ian Gregory
Replace "groups" with my first name to email

Simple Feedback Trainer: http://sft.sourceforge.net/

shannon wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 21:09:40 +0100, Pooh Bear wrote:

Tim S Kemp wrote:

Pooh Bear wrote:
Digital desk maybe with the dumb**** 'virtual channels' ? Either that
- proving that you should never *ever* use 'assignable' desks for
demanding live use or that the engineer responsible is utterly
clueless. If there is *one* fader you should have your finger on at
the commencement of a new set.......

Digital rocks. Engineers who are ignoring digital and are lost at the sight
of a PM1, PM5 or a Digico are fooling themselves into history.

It's the 'virtual channels' ! NO bloody damn good in a demanding live
environment. You need to be able to access the right fader, knob, etc within
10s ? of milliseconds. Digital control surfaces stops that being possible.


However - on the Live8 topic - am watching on Freeview, through a prologic
decoder, monitor audio speakers (my "home" rig... could go to the "office"
and listen on Tannoys) and the main BBC screwup for me has been atrocious
lipsync problems earlier on, Dido / Youssou N'Dour was over 1 second out.

Yet another digital screw-up.

Thankfully analogue *can't* do that ! I didn't hear *that* particular problem !

Madonna is spot on.

Yeah, The first decent act. I listened to it carefully and got it. She brought
her own engineer ! For sure ! I'd put money on it ! Not actually too surprised.
I bet she's done gigs before where they screwed up.

As the sound gradually improved during her set I realised what was going on.
Someone ( been there myself ) fighting with a crap mix to sort it out.


No you bloody haven't been there
Its absolutely clear that you have only done small time local stuff and
have never been near a large modern sound company system in a Hyde Park
type event doing a simultaneous broadcast otherwise you would be aware
that the television mix comes from a split mix to a BBC mobile and off an
ENTIRELY different console to whatever the live engineer is mixing on.
All the major acts get to rehearse with their consoles and monitors and
store all their settings before the events and the live mix would be
already dialed in from the start.

You appear to have the proverbial rod up your arse !

I have been *personally* a Dept of Environment approved contractor for events in both
Hyde Park and Trafalgar Square !

When you've cooled down maybe you'd like to make a more reasoned comment ?

Graham

shannon wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 21:09:40 +0100, Pooh Bear wrote:

Tim S Kemp wrote:

Pooh Bear wrote:
Digital desk maybe with the dumb**** 'virtual channels' ? Either that
- proving that you should never *ever* use 'assignable' desks for
demanding live use or that the engineer responsible is utterly
clueless. If there is *one* fader you should have your finger on at
the commencement of a new set.......

Digital rocks. Engineers who are ignoring digital and are lost at the sight
of a PM1, PM5 or a Digico are fooling themselves into history.

It's the 'virtual channels' ! NO bloody damn good in a demanding live
environment. You need to be able to access the right fader, knob, etc within
10s ? of milliseconds. Digital control surfaces stops that being possible.


However - on the Live8 topic - am watching on Freeview, through a prologic
decoder, monitor audio speakers (my "home" rig... could go to the "office"
and listen on Tannoys) and the main BBC screwup for me has been atrocious
lipsync problems earlier on, Dido / Youssou N'Dour was over 1 second out.

Yet another digital screw-up.

Thankfully analogue *can't* do that ! I didn't hear *that* particular problem !

Madonna is spot on.

Yeah, The first decent act. I listened to it carefully and got it. She brought
her own engineer ! For sure ! I'd put money on it ! Not actually too surprised.
I bet she's done gigs before where they screwed up.

As the sound gradually improved during her set I realised what was going on.
Someone ( been there myself ) fighting with a crap mix to sort it out.

No you bloody haven't been there

Yes I have, but never mind it's incidental.

Its absolutely clear that you have only done small time local stuff and
have never been near a large modern sound company system in a Hyde Park
type event doing a simultaneous broadcast otherwise you would be aware
that the television mix comes from a split mix to a BBC mobile and off an
ENTIRELY different console to whatever the live engineer is mixing on.
All the major acts get to rehearse with their consoles and monitors and
store all their settings before the events and the live mix would be
already dialed in from the start.

I never did OB, I admit.

Graham

On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 19:24:14 +0100, Tim S Kemp wrote:

Pooh Bear wrote:
Digital desk maybe with the dumb**** 'virtual channels' ? Either that
- proving that you should never *ever* use 'assignable' desks for
demanding live use or that the engineer responsible is utterly
clueless. If there is *one* fader you should have your finger on at
the commencement of a new set.......

Digital rocks. Engineers who are ignoring digital and are lost at the sight
of a PM1, PM5 or a Digico are fooling themselves into history.

However - on the Live8 topic - am watching on Freeview, through a prologic
decoder, monitor audio speakers (my "home" rig... could go to the "office"
and listen on Tannoys) and the main BBC screwup for me has been atrocious
lipsync problems earlier on, Dido / Youssou N'Dour was over 1 second out.
Madonna is spot on.

Anyone got a kit list for this gig? I notice Turbo monitors in the stage
front but not had clear view of stacks and FOH...

I'll take a guess at the usual suspects, Brit Row in London and Clairs in
Philly

The mix you hear isn't off the house console, and you are right, the
digital consoles are the only way to go, since all your settings are
stored from rehearsal and can be uploaded to another identical console.
Its much faster to access a channel strips controls on a digital console
and light years faster to control dynamics and assign reverbs and delays.

Sound synch problems are usually a matter of delaying the audio to the
video framestores and DVEs required to make the remote video synchronous
for switching. Its a master control routing issue.

Tim Scott wrote:

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...
Tim S Kemp wrote:

Pooh Bear wrote:
Digital desk maybe with the dumb**** 'virtual channels' ? Either that
- proving that you should never *ever* use 'assignable' desks for
demanding live use or that the engineer responsible is utterly
clueless. If there is *one* fader you should have your finger on at
the commencement of a new set.......

Digital rocks. Engineers who are ignoring digital and are lost at the
sight
of a PM1, PM5 or a Digico are fooling themselves into history.

It's the 'virtual channels' ! NO bloody damn good in a demanding live
environment. You need to be able to access the right fader, knob, etc
within
10s ? of milliseconds. Digital control surfaces stops that being possible.

Digital does rock, and is not so much the future, is is the now. Engineers
who don't realise that may as well think about retiring.
It all comes down to how good the engineer is controlling the desk, and how
good he is at programming it, and how much foresight he has to program it
well ... if there is a channel you need access to then you make sure it is
accessable from every page, and if the new band are one you are ready on
their page, etc. It all comes down to how experienced the engineer is on
that desk as to how quick he can get around it, and how good he is at
programming it appropriately for the gig. This goes for analog too, though
not so much. If everything has been advanced properly, then the desk can be
set up before the gig at the engineers home on his laptop.

After a couple of months of using a PM1D I find I can get around things
quick - I find it easier to flip the desk - so bring all the right side of
the desk (channels 25-48) to the left hand side where i am standing, i find
this easier and quicker than me moving to the other side of the desk. It
took a bit of getting used to to be able to do that, and be able to get my
head around the channels moving around, but now i find it so much easier.

Don't discount digital desks. IF programmed well they make life easier, and
do so much more than an old fashioned desk can, save space and weight etc
etc etc

I suspect a digital desk is utterly *brilliant* for a West End show or whatever,
where the same requirements are placed on it night after night.

In fact I can hardly think of a better example of such usage.

Give me an 'unknown' concert scenario and I'll use a classic analogue desk any
day, simply for it's lovely simple control surface.


Graham

Joe Sensor wrote:

Tim S Kemp wrote:

Many people are watching it out of charitable conscience, others for the
between band "entertainment". Music lovers are waiting for the Floyd...

Sound? Are you kidding" FLOYD ROCKED!! And it sounded awesome. I have it
cranked in the studio phones and it sounds incredible!!
History in the making.

You're right.

By the time Floyd got on stage the bugs were ironed out and the show was
indeed a treat !

So - why wasn't it like that from the start ?

Graham

shannon wrote:

I'll take a guess at the usual suspects, Brit Row in London and Clairs in
Philly

I was kinda hoping it might not be - but I suspect you're right. Force majuere
etc...

I'll never be able to mention Brit Row in future without caveats, if they are
indeed the contractor,

Same goes for Clair Bros.


Graham

Pooh Bear wrote:

You're right.

By the time Floyd got on stage the bugs were ironed out and the show was
indeed a treat !

So - why wasn't it like that from the start ?


Huh? There WERE other bands??