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#281
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.guns,rec.audio.pro
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Gun Laws save 2,500 lives in Australia / No gun laws kills 15,000 lives in USA PER ANNUM
Signal said: Gun crime peaked in 1999, now 1/3rd that level. Ah the inherent dishonesty of the hoplophobe I was NOT talking ONLY about "gun crime", whatever fiction that is. I have never seen a gun EVER commt a crime, not even a misdemeanor. But then, unlike you, I'm smart enough to realize that inanimate objects are INCAPABLE of taking ANY action ON THEIR OWN There is something wrong with your brain. Sounds to me like he has a gun-lover's version of "debating trade" mania..... -- Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence. |
#282
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.guns,rec.audio.pro
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Gun Laws save 2,500 lives in Australia / No gun laws kills 15,000 lives in USA PER ANNUM
Signal said: IN the US , the estimate is about 2,500,000 such DGUs (Defensive Gun Uses) each year So roughly 1 in every 100 people uses their gun in a hostile situation every year? What a violent country you live in. That figure includes potshots at squirrels and rabbits, which are intent on inflicing rabies on humans. -- Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence. |
#283
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.guns,rec.audio.pro
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Gun Laws save 2,500 lives in Australia / No gun laws kills 15,000 lives in USA PER ANNUM
In rec.audio.pro SaPeIsMa wrote:
"Signal" wrote in message ... George M. Middius cmndr _ george @ comcast . net wrote: We have right to use as much force as necessary in self defence Is that a change in public policy? I recall a story about a homeowner being charged with attempted murder for clobbering a burglar. Not too long ago, either. It's always been acceptable to use "reasonable force". If you are defending yourself or removing a threat, that's whatever it takes. You may be thinking of the farmer who was prosecuted, not that long ago, for shooting a burglar in the back as he was running away. Who decides "reasonable" From what we've seen, currently in England, ANY use of force is UN-reasonable That's why I like Pennsylvania, if you kill an intruder in your home, you are considered to have been in fear of your life and thus cannot be charged with a crime. BTW you should have heard the screeching from all of the liberals when the legislature passed this law perhaps 15 years ago. They called it fanciful names like the "shoot your neighbor law", and offered fantastic scenarios like your neighbor accidently wandering into the wrong house after coming home drunk. AFAIK the law has been applied in just a handful of cases. Jerry |
#284
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Gun Laws save 2,500 lives in Australia / No gun laws kills 15,000 lives in USA PER ANNUM
Don Pearce wrote:
On Sun, 06 May 2007 20:33:59 GMT, Jerry Peters wrote: Don Pearce wrote: On Sat, 05 May 2007 13:57:22 +0100, Laurence Payne lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote: On Sat, 05 May 2007 12:34:00 GMT, Bruce wrote: Look. To have a VT or Columbine you need two things. You need somebody who has gone crazy, and you need ready access to a gun. No, you don't. He could have used a bomb, club, knife, combinations thereof, or even (GASP!) a car...... Eveyone wants to blame the gun and not recognize that evil exists in the world. How many people did Ted Bundy shoot, or Jack the Ripper?? You really WANT your gun, don't you? :-) Strange isn't it? I don't have a gun, nor do I want one and nor do any of my friends. I go out at night here in London without feeling the slightest fear. This is clearly not a situation that Scout and the like experience. They spend their lives wondering where an attack is going to come from and making sure they have a weapon handy to deal with it. That is a really sad way to exist, and I'm so glad I live in a civilized country rather than a third world one, which it is now clear the US is (American Idol have even bundled it with Africa in their aid campaign). ROTFL You really need join the real world. I live just outside (about 200 ft) of a mid-size American city. I in no way feel threatened at night or any other time. I've also had occasion to wander around Philadelphia, Dallas, and LA at night; again no feeling threatened. I worry less about gun violence than I do about being struck by lightning. Jerry Well this is the problem. America is such a mixture. I visit regularly myself and my experience is the same as yours. I'm sure this is because I go to places where people are well educated and civilized - just as they are here back home. Unfortunately there is also this whole other America where people like Scout live, where people do walk in fear and feel the need to keep guns about them to ward off attackers. It is this factor that rather defines America as third world; the stigmata being whole communities living in abject poverty while others are mega rich, entire towns built as shanties, populated by people with essentially no hope of advancement. And natural disasters (Katrina) going unaddressed for lack of whatever motivation it takes for central government to acknowledge the needs of the underclass. I believe it is the existence of this kind of deprivation that gives rise to the sort of society that sees weapons as a necessity. Here in England that kind of condition simply doesn't exist. We have the odd poor person, of course, and neighbourhoods where you wouldn't necessarily want to live but there is nowhere you could go and find that kind of widespread abject poverty. d Sorry to disillusion you but I live in southwestern Pennsylvania, one of the major gun-owning regions in the eastern US. We have a _large_ number of hunters and NRA members around here. In some towns the schools have a holiday on the first day of deer hunting season. I'm _far_ more afraid of the idiots who drive through red lights while babbling on their cellphones than I am of the gun owners hereabouts. Jerry |
#285
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Gun Laws save 2,500 lives in Australia / No gun laws kills 15,000 lives in USA PER ANNUM
Don Pearce wrote:
On Sun, 06 May 2007 20:33:59 GMT, Jerry Peters wrote: Don Pearce wrote: On Sat, 05 May 2007 13:57:22 +0100, Laurence Payne lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote: On Sat, 05 May 2007 12:34:00 GMT, Bruce wrote: Look. To have a VT or Columbine you need two things. You need somebody who has gone crazy, and you need ready access to a gun. No, you don't. He could have used a bomb, club, knife, combinations thereof, or even (GASP!) a car...... Eveyone wants to blame the gun and not recognize that evil exists in the world. How many people did Ted Bundy shoot, or Jack the Ripper?? You really WANT your gun, don't you? :-) Strange isn't it? I don't have a gun, nor do I want one and nor do any of my friends. I go out at night here in London without feeling the slightest fear. This is clearly not a situation that Scout and the like experience. They spend their lives wondering where an attack is going to come from and making sure they have a weapon handy to deal with it. That is a really sad way to exist, and I'm so glad I live in a civilized country rather than a third world one, which it is now clear the US is (American Idol have even bundled it with Africa in their aid campaign). ROTFL You really need join the real world. I live just outside (about 200 ft) of a mid-size American city. I in no way feel threatened at night or any other time. I've also had occasion to wander around Philadelphia, Dallas, and LA at night; again no feeling threatened. I worry less about gun violence than I do about being struck by lightning. Jerry Well this is the problem. America is such a mixture. I visit regularly myself and my experience is the same as yours. I'm sure this is because I go to places where people are well educated and civilized - just as they are here back home. Unfortunately there is also this whole other America where people like Scout live, where people do walk in fear and feel the need to keep guns about them to ward off attackers. It is this factor that rather defines America as third world; the stigmata being whole communities living in abject poverty while others are mega rich, entire towns built as shanties, populated by people with essentially no hope of advancement. And natural disasters (Katrina) going unaddressed for lack of whatever motivation it takes for central government to acknowledge the needs of the underclass. I believe it is the existence of this kind of deprivation that gives rise to the sort of society that sees weapons as a necessity. Not shanties, public housing usually. Sorry, I'm tired of hearing about the lazy underclass and their "problems". We provide them with schools that they don't attend, public housing that they destroy, and opportunities which they don't take. Katrina was not the central government's job. You have a bunch of people who've been trained to be irresponsible and lazy and to depend on the governnment to do everything for them. When there's a disaster, they sat and waited for the government to rescue them. Here in England that kind of condition simply doesn't exist. We have the odd poor person, of course, and neighbourhoods where you wouldn't necessarily want to live but there is nowhere you could go and find that kind of widespread abject poverty. Most of these "poor" people have color TV's, microwaves, and cellphones. |
#286
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.guns,rec.audio.pro
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Gun Laws save 2,500 lives in Australia / No gun laws kills 15,000 lives in USA PER ANNUM
In rec.audio.pro Signal wrote:
Jerry Peters wrote: That's why I like Pennsylvania, if you kill an intruder in your home, you are considered to have been in fear of your life and thus cannot be charged with a crime. You appear to be delighted to have an *excuse* to maim or kill petty criminals. That's nice. What a fine example of the human species. It serves to even the odds, since the legitimate occupant has no way of knowing what your "petty criminal" intends. Yep, if they break into an occupied dwelling, they get what they deserve. Why don't idiots like you ever sympathize with the real victims of criminals BTW? -- S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t |
#287
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.guns,rec.audio.pro
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Gun Laws save 2,500 lives in Australia / No gun laws kills 15,000 lives in USA PER ANNUM
In rec.audio.pro Signal wrote:
"SaPeIsMa" wrote: Anyway, I'm going out for the evening now. I do so in the sure and safe knowledge that there will be nobody close to me with a gun - I hope your fantasies and delusions give you comfort, I know the reality is anything but what you assert. What a sorry person you are, disparaging the person who enjoys the freedoms of a peaceful society. Like I said, let's not inject reality into your fantasy. No fantasy, it's fact- the UK is a peaceful place to live. You haven't looked at your crime rates recently have you ? Let's see. I'm trying to make sure he retains his fantasy and continues to "feel" safe, and you come along and start injected reality into his fantasy. Shame on you. He was happy, unsafe, but happy. Now he may start to worry and panic and next thing you know he might be concerned HE will become a victim. Then where will we be? That was just wrong. :-) I'm so sorry I forgot myself I was only hoping to demonstrate to him that there was "Another Way" You did - I see clearly how you live in a climate of fear, carrying guns for "protection", always scanning your environment for threats. That's the other way. You _really_ are an idiot, aren't you? I lock my doors, too, does that make me constantly afraid, living in a climate of fear? |
#288
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.guns,rec.audio.pro
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Gun Laws save 2,500 lives in Australia / No gun laws kills 15,000lives in USA PER ANNUM
Jerry Peters wrote:
In rec.audio.pro Signal wrote: Jerry Peters wrote: That's why I like Pennsylvania, if you kill an intruder in your home, you are considered to have been in fear of your life and thus cannot be charged with a crime. You appear to be delighted to have an *excuse* to maim or kill petty criminals. That's nice. What a fine example of the human species. Uh. Who said "PETTY?" Why don't idiots like you ever sympathize with the real victims of criminals BTW? Well, he IS an idiot after all. |
#289
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.guns,rec.audio.pro
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Gun Laws save 2,500 lives in Australia / No gun laws kills 15,000 lives in USA PER ANNUM
"dave weil" wrote in message ... On Tue, 8 May 2007 02:49:42 -0500, "SaPeIsMa" wrote: **** you and the ignorant horse you rode in on Add Tourette's to the issues that you face. I definitely aren't going to take advantage of your cognitive and behavioral problems. Hope you get better soon. Just so people KNOW the context of my response, that you snipped to hide +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + + That's fair enough. So you should be less aggressive yourself. + + + **** you and the ignorant horse you rode in on + You'll be better positionned to make such statements when + you can support your claims instead of trying to weasel + that it was something else being discussed +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I notice that you still can NOT support the claims you've made so far Why is that ? |
#290
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.guns,rec.audio.pro
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Gun Laws save 2,500 lives in Australia / No gun laws kills 15,000 lives in USA PER ANNUM
"dave weil" wrote in message news On Fri, 4 May 2007 23:24:25 -0500, "SaPeIsMa" wrote: "Don Pearce" wrote in message ... Your constitution does not give you permission to keep a gun for self defence. It is very specific - your permission to bear arms is for the purpose of maintaining an armed militia. Any other use of a gun is unconstitutional. English not your first language ? Before I leave you alone, just thought I'd highlight this rather strange insult, coming from you, of course. BTW, just to show that you are a liar, since you are thowing the epithet out, you said this: "2) It was NOT a discussion about the Presidential Oath It was ALWAYS about the Pledge of Allegiance' ummmm: I see once again that YOU cannot support your claim QED The worst of them all was that paragon (as I'm sure some here will see him) Senator Joe McCarthy. Among his other pleasant acts he had the "under God" bit put in the oath. Everybody since the founding of your country has failed to live up to the aspirations of the founders. Once again YOU demonstrate your ignorance http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm "In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer." http://www.slate.com/?id=2067499 I guess the fact that English is pretty far down the totem pole in your list of languages as confused you about the difference between "the oath" and "the Pledge". Show us the alleged Oath that was modified to include "under god" |
#291
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.guns,rec.audio.pro
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Gun Laws save 2,500 lives in Australia / No gun laws kills 15,000 lives in USA PER ANNUM
"George M. Middius" cmndr _ george @ comcast . net wrote in message ... Signal said: Gun crime peaked in 1999, now 1/3rd that level. Ah the inherent dishonesty of the hoplophobe I was NOT talking ONLY about "gun crime", whatever fiction that is. I have never seen a gun EVER commt a crime, not even a misdemeanor. But then, unlike you, I'm smart enough to realize that inanimate objects are INCAPABLE of taking ANY action ON THEIR OWN There is something wrong with your brain. Sounds to me like he has a gun-lover's version of "debating trade" mania..... When the idiots can't argue the subject, they attack the person Your inability to defend your claim of "gun crime" is noted |
#292
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.guns,rec.audio.pro
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Gun Laws save 2,500 lives in Australia / No gun laws kills 15,000 lives in USA PER ANNUM
"George M. Middius" cmndr _ george @ comcast . net wrote in message ... Signal said: IN the US , the estimate is about 2,500,000 such DGUs (Defensive Gun Uses) each year So roughly 1 in every 100 people uses their gun in a hostile situation every year? What a violent country you live in. That figure includes potshots at squirrels and rabbits, which are intent on inflicing rabies on humans. Clearly , you are one such vicitm |
#293
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.guns,rec.audio.pro
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Gun Laws save 2,500 lives in Australia / No gun laws kills 15,000 lives in USA PER ANNUM
Signal said: Yep, if they break into an occupied dwelling, they get what they deserve. Theft of a $500 TV begets the death penalty. A just punishment for that crime. Riiiight. This is what happens when you try to have a "debate" with raving lunatics -- you end up mouthing opinions that are just as irrational as theirs. -- Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence. |
#294
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.guns,rec.audio.pro
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Gun Laws save 2,500 lives in Australia / No gun laws kills 15,000 lives in USA PER ANNUM
On Thu, 10 May 2007 03:25:18 +0100, Signal wrote:
Jeff Genzler wrote: That's why I like Pennsylvania, if you kill an intruder in your home, you are considered to have been in fear of your life and thus cannot be charged with a crime. You appear to be delighted to have an *excuse* to maim or kill petty criminals. That's nice. What a fine example of the human species. Uh. Who said "PETTY?" The Peters caricature made it clear that he doesn't distinguish between a real threat and petty thief. Say a person enters your property without permission, you would assume your life is in danger right? I suggest that most who do this are just attempting to grab some goods and get away. Since you could care less about what you have, then the rest of us might just as well come over to your place and take what we want and you won't even bother to call the police because each one of us only want just a little of what you have. |
#295
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.guns,rec.audio.pro
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Gun Laws save 2,500 lives in Australia / No gun laws kills 15,000lives in USA PER ANNUM
Signal wrote:
Jeff Genzler wrote: That's why I like Pennsylvania, if you kill an intruder in your home, you are considered to have been in fear of your life and thus cannot be charged with a crime. You appear to be delighted to have an *excuse* to maim or kill petty criminals. That's nice. What a fine example of the human species. Uh. Who said "PETTY?" The Peters caricature made it clear that he doesn't distinguish between a real threat and petty thief. Say a person enters your property without permission, you would assume your life is in danger right? I suggest that most who do this are just attempting to grab some goods and get away. Let's get some clarity here... The situation as described was an "occupied dwelling"--if someone illegally breaks into the residence while the legal occupant is there. You're the one equating illegally entering an "occupied dwelling" with the "petty theft" of a TV. Ok, I'm clear on what's been said, now, I'd suggest that someone breaking into an occupied home isn't really just a "petty thief" and does pose a real danger to the occupants. Specially in a society where the best estimate, nation wide, of legal firearm ownership is 40% of the population. |
#296
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.guns,rec.audio.pro
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Gun Laws save 2,500 lives in Australia / No gun laws kills 15,000 lives in USA PER ANNUM
On Thu, 10 May 2007 03:48:08 +0100, Signal wrote:
wrote: That's why I like Pennsylvania, if you kill an intruder in your home, you are considered to have been in fear of your life and thus cannot be charged with a crime. You appear to be delighted to have an *excuse* to maim or kill petty criminals. That's nice. What a fine example of the human species. Uh. Who said "PETTY?" The Peters caricature made it clear that he doesn't distinguish between a real threat and petty thief. Say a person enters your property without permission, you would assume your life is in danger right? I suggest that most who do this are just attempting to grab some goods and get away. Since you could care less about what you have, then the rest of us might just as well come over to your place and take what we want and you won't even bother to call the police because each one of us only want just a little of what you have. Intellectually dishonest... Gold star for you. No, it follows along right nicely with your saying that a person should not defend their own property and should let anyone take what they want without hindrance. All we want to do is "grab some goods and get away". |
#297
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.guns,rec.audio.pro
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Gun Laws save 2,500 lives in Australia / No gun laws kills 15,000 lives in USA PER ANNUM
On Thu, 10 May 2007 03:45:17 +0100, Signal wrote:
"SaPeIsMa" wrote: I see you were unable to cope with my arguments. I'm putting a fork in the lot of you - you're done*. *and insane. Not us. You seem to be the one that wants to let criminals do what they want to do with no hindrance. Are you a criminal looking for easy pickings? |
#298
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.guns,rec.audio.pro
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Gun Laws save 2,500 lives in Australia / No gun laws kills 15,000 lives in USA PER ANNUM
In rec.audio.pro Signal wrote:
Jeff Genzler wrote: That's why I like Pennsylvania, if you kill an intruder in your home, you are considered to have been in fear of your life and thus cannot be charged with a crime. You appear to be delighted to have an *excuse* to maim or kill petty criminals. That's nice. What a fine example of the human species. Uh. Who said "PETTY?" The Peters caricature made it clear that he doesn't distinguish between a real threat and petty thief. Say a person enters your property without permission, you would assume your life is in danger right? I suggest that most who do this are just attempting to grab some goods and get away. Explain exactly how someone who's awakened by a burglar at 2 in the morning knows what the criminal has in mind. It's not your property, fool, the law is very specific, the criminal has to have entered your dwelling. Burglary of an occupied dwelling is a felony in Pennsylvania. How the heck do you know that someone is just attempting to grab some goods? Let me guess, the poor criminal is really a victim of society. It's all society's fault, right? Jerry |
#299
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.guns,rec.audio.pro
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Gun Laws save 2,500 lives in Australia / No gun laws kills 15,000 lives in USA PER ANNUM
In rec.audio.pro Signal wrote:
Jerry Peters wrote: That's why I like Pennsylvania, if you kill an intruder in your home, you are considered to have been in fear of your life and thus cannot be charged with a crime. You appear to be delighted to have an *excuse* to maim or kill petty criminals. That's nice. What a fine example of the human species. It serves to even the odds, since the legitimate occupant has no way of knowing what your "petty criminal" intends. Probably best to _assume_ they are there to kill you then.. because of course, it's real commonplace for persons to be motivated to break into a strangers home to murder the occupants they've never met. Yep, if they break into an occupied dwelling, they get what they deserve. Theft of a $500 TV begets the death penalty. A just punishment for that crime. Riiiight. Why don't people like you ever sympathize with the real victims of criminals BTW? I do, which is why I would hope for you to be sent down for life if you killed a petty thief. But I live in Pennsylvania, remember. The presumption is I'm acting in fear of my life. I'll try to explain it to you once mo Burglary of an occupied dwelling is not petty thievery! It's a felony in most if not all US jurisdictions. Jerry |
#300
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.guns,rec.audio.pro
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Gun Laws save 2,500 lives in Australia / No gun laws kills 15,000 lives in USA PER ANNUM
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#301
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.guns,rec.audio.pro
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Gun Laws save 2,500 lives in Australia / No gun laws kills 15,000 lives in USA PER ANNUM
"Jerry Peters" wrote in message ... In rec.audio.pro Signal wrote: Jeff Genzler wrote: That's why I like Pennsylvania, if you kill an intruder in your home, you are considered to have been in fear of your life and thus cannot be charged with a crime. You appear to be delighted to have an *excuse* to maim or kill petty criminals. That's nice. What a fine example of the human species. Uh. Who said "PETTY?" The Peters caricature made it clear that he doesn't distinguish between a real threat and petty thief. Say a person enters your property without permission, you would assume your life is in danger right? I suggest that most who do this are just attempting to grab some goods and get away. Explain exactly how someone who's awakened by a burglar at 2 in the morning knows what the criminal has in mind. It's not your property, fool, the law is very specific, the criminal has to have entered your dwelling. Burglary of an occupied dwelling is a felony in Pennsylvania. How the heck do you know that someone is just attempting to grab some goods? Let me guess, the poor criminal is really a victim of society. It's all society's fault, right? The good ones have toe tags and are in stage one decomp. |
#302
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Gun Laws save 2,500 lives in Australia / No gun laws kills 15,000 lives in USA P
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#303
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Gun Laws save 2,500 lives in Australia / No gun laws kills 15,000 lives in USA P
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#304
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.guns,rec.audio.pro
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Gun Laws save 2,500 lives in Australia / No gun laws kills 15,000
The Peters caricature made it clear that he doesn't distinguish between a real threat and petty thief. Say a person enters your property without permission, you would assume your life is in danger right? I suggest that most who do this are just attempting to grab some goods and get away. Let's get some clarity here... The situation as described was an "occupied dwelling"--if someone illegally breaks into the residence while the legal occupant is there. You're the one equating illegally entering an "occupied dwelling" with the "petty theft" of a TV. Ok, I'm clear on what's been said, now, I'd suggest that someone breaking into an occupied home isn't really just a "petty thief" and does pose a real danger to the occupants. Specially in a society where the best estimate, nation wide, of legal firearm ownership is 40% of the population. Many times the person breaking into the occupied dwelling is known to react violently when confronted by said occupants. WHether it be a $500 TV or my recording gear, if you break into my home I consider you a threat to my life. wHich means I"m gonna blow your head off. YOur family doesn't like that? WEll too damned bad! Maybe they should have intervened and gotten you to put down the crack pipe or whatever other vice you've got that caused you to forget that "the wages of sin is death." I still recall the day the a**hole selling Kirby vacuum cleaners made the big mistake of sticking his foot in the door on my wife. sHe told him, "I already have a vacuum cleaner. HIs response, "BUt it isn't a Kirby," as he stuck his foot in the door. That's where he made his mistake. I came around the corner earing back the hammer on the 21 gauge. sHoulda seen that sonofabitch run!!! ROTFLMAO!!! Richard webb, Electric Spider Productions Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email address. A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone. |
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