Hi,

I've googled through the past thoughts around this topic, but in this industry
things a couple of years old are way out of date. ;)

What is the best digital piano for a small recording studio? I'm looking for
1) great sound
2) great keyboard action
3) reasonable price ($10K absolute max)
4) small size to fit in the room

I'm leaning toward the Kurzweil Mark 12 (about $4800.). What else should I
look at? What sounds better - a digital piano, or a keyboard driving a soft
synth?

Thanks,
-lee-

No contest. The Yamaha P250. You can get it for about $1900.00 at
www.zzounds.com . I have played them all. This is the very best. I own an
acoustic Yamaha grand piano w/ midi capability for recording, as well. The
P250 is nearly as good, and MUCH easier to record because there are no mics
to worry about. Get it. You will love it, love it, and love it.

And you see that Yamaha Grand that Billy Joel has been playing on stage with
Elton? Fake. It is a grand case, that is EMPTY with a P-250 nestled inside
it. The grand case is for looks only. He is playing a digital piano. Elton
is playing the real Yamaha grand, though.

Thanks,
JL
www.cdbaby.com/jimmylee


"Leoaw3" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I've googled through the past thoughts around this topic, but in this
industry
things a couple of years old are way out of date. ;)

What is the best digital piano for a small recording studio? I'm looking
for
1) great sound
2) great keyboard action
3) reasonable price ($10K absolute max)
4) small size to fit in the room

I'm leaning toward the Kurzweil Mark 12 (about $4800.). What else should
I
look at? What sounds better - a digital piano, or a keyboard driving a
soft
synth?

Thanks,
-lee-

Hey - I'd love to get something great for that cheap. Is the Yamaha really
good enough for solid recordings as opposed to stage performances?

-lee-

I have recorded the Roland RD500 and RD600 with good results. The
players like the action and the different piano sound selections.
Brighter darker etc. I haven't used the Yamaha's so I couldn't compare
them. Todd

Todd Fitzgerald
Chief Engineer
OarFin Studios Minneapolis
www.oarfinrecords.com

Jimmy Lee wrote:

No contest. The Yamaha P250. You can get it for about $1900.00 at
www.zzounds.com . I have played them all. This is the very best. I own an
acoustic Yamaha grand piano w/ midi capability for recording, as well. The
P250 is nearly as good, and MUCH easier to record because there are no mics
to worry about. Get it. You will love it, love it, and love it.

And you see that Yamaha Grand that Billy Joel has been playing on stage with
Elton? Fake. It is a grand case, that is EMPTY with a P-250 nestled inside
it. The grand case is for looks only. He is playing a digital piano. Elton
is playing the real Yamaha grand, though.


FWIW, when Elton and Billy Joel were on what, "Storytellers"? they
used Kurzweils embedded in a grand piano case.

I'd avoid the Yamaha P120. Maybe the P250 sounds better, but the P120
sounds like plastic.


Thanks,
JL
www.cdbaby.com/jimmylee

"Leoaw3" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I've googled through the past thoughts around this topic, but in this
industry
things a couple of years old are way out of date. ;)

What is the best digital piano for a small recording studio? I'm looking
for
1) great sound
2) great keyboard action
3) reasonable price ($10K absolute max)
4) small size to fit in the room

I'm leaning toward the Kurzweil Mark 12 (about $4800.). What else should
I
look at? What sounds better - a digital piano, or a keyboard driving a
soft
synth?

Thanks,
-lee-


--
Les Cargill

Leoaw3 wrote:

Hi,

I've googled through the past thoughts around this topic, but in this industry
things a couple of years old are way out of date. ;)

What is the best digital piano for a small recording studio? I'm looking for
1) great sound
2) great keyboard action
3) reasonable price ($10K absolute max)
4) small size to fit in the room

I'm leaning toward the Kurzweil Mark 12 (about $4800.). What else should I
look at? What sounds better - a digital piano, or a keyboard driving a soft
synth?

Thanks,
-lee-

Do you want *just* a piano, or other sounds as well? The Alesis QS8 has a
whole bunch of patches, some good, some not so good. I like the Alesis
piano patches better ( they mix more easily ) but the Kurzweil
seems to be claimed to have more "natural" sounding piano patches.

You should be able to find something for way under $10k. I haven't
looked at this market in about seven years, but it looked to me
like the generic synths ( like the Kurzweil or Alesis ) had better
sounds than "digital pianos". Any synth with built in speakers is
suspect.

It is also possible to patch any MIDI capable instrument into a
tone generator for even more sounds.

I don't know about depending on softsynths for tone generation. What I've
been able to do is play parts on a keyboard, then use softsynths to
print .wav files . Gigasampler is purported to have excellent pianos.

I'd go find a store that has various models in stock and listen to them.

--
Les Cargill

I actually have a Alesis QS8. I like it, and pretty much like the sounds (esp.
with the grand piano Qcard.) However, even *I* (lamo keyboardist) can tell the
difference in feel between the Alesis and a "real" piano. I want an instrument
that convinces picky piano players that it is OK to go digital. I'm not
looking for OK, but for "wow!".

-lee-

Leoaw3 wrote:
I actually have a Alesis QS8. I like it, and pretty much like the sounds (esp.
with the grand piano Qcard.) However, even *I* (lamo keyboardist) can tell the
difference in feel between the Alesis and a "real" piano. I want an instrument
that convinces picky piano players that it is OK to go digital. I'm not
looking for OK, but for "wow!".

I also have a QS8 and like most of the sounds but the piano sound
certainly does not sound or feel like a real piano when soloed. I had
concluded that no digital piano really does but let me know if you find
out different.

-Rob

Leoaw3 wrote:

I actually have a Alesis QS8. I like it, and pretty much like the sounds (esp.
with the grand piano Qcard.) However, even *I* (lamo keyboardist) can tell the
difference in feel between the Alesis and a "real" piano. I want an instrument
that convinces picky piano players that it is OK to go digital. I'm not
looking for OK, but for "wow!".

-lee-

Picky piano players won't be happy with anything but a real piano, I fear.

--
Les Cargill

"t fitzgerald" wrote in message
...
I have recorded the Roland RD500 and RD600 with good results. The
players like the action and the different piano sound selections.
Brighter darker etc. I haven't used the Yamaha's so I couldn't compare
them. Todd

I would second the RD500, my key player (who was strictly a traditional
piano player for 15 years before starting to play rock keys) has one and the
feel of the weighted keys is excellent. There are a few good piano patches
and a handful of good rhodes patches on there as well, and it has midi
in/out/thru so you can always hook it up to a midi box or something like
gigasampler to get different pianos and stuff. Haven't played the RD600, but
I would assume that it is simply an improved RD500, being a newer model.
Also, I think he got his RD500 for around $1500 or less, but I haven't
looked at the prices of keyboards lately, so I don't know what they go for
today.

ryanm

"Les Cargill" wrote in message
...

Picky piano players won't be happy with anything but a real piano, I fear.

True. But they've made due with a Peavey C8 controller and a Kurzweill
2500RS with the piano motherboard here.

--
Dave Martin
Java Jive Studio
Nashville, TN
www.javajivestudio.com

Picky piano players won't be happy with anything but a real piano, I fear.

Yah, I know. There will always be some folks that will not accept anything but
the "real thing"....even if the sound is better. For them, I have a remote
piano that I can use once in a while. I'm hoping to have something that works
*most* of the time in-house.

Thanks,
-lee-

In article ,
Leoaw3 wrote:
Hey - I'd love to get something great for that cheap. Is the Yamaha really
good enough for solid recordings as opposed to stage performances?

My suggestion? Check out the thrift stores in town and pick up a cheap
home organ. Most of them sound very cheesy, but they are fun sounds to
have and most of them are available for the cost of a good dinner.

If someone is coming in and they want a serious keyboard, they'll bring
one along. Nobody ever picked a studio for the keyboard they had available,
so having a high grade keyboard in stock probably won't bring you any more
business and it probably won't pay for itself.

A real piano, on the other hand, will bring you business and might well
pay for itself, but you're talking a lot more money there.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Leoaw3 wrote:
I actually have a Alesis QS8. I like it, and pretty much like the sounds (esp.
with the grand piano Qcard.) However, even *I* (lamo keyboardist) can tell the
difference in feel between the Alesis and a "real" piano. I want an instrument
that convinces picky piano players that it is OK to go digital. I'm not
looking for OK, but for "wow!".

You won't find it.

The Yamaha sounds sort of like a real piano. It's good enough that you can
listen to the playback and think "hey, there's something wrong with that piano"
instead of "hey, that piano sounds really fake." But there is nothing even
close to being at the point of sounding like a real piano.

The Yamaha is better than most, and it's probably what I'd get if I wanted
a fake piano. But it's no Steinway, and it won't do a lot of other things
you might want a house keyboard to do.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:

The Yamaha sounds sort of like a real piano. It's good enough that you can
listen to the playback and think "hey, there's something wrong with that
piano"
instead of "hey, that piano sounds really fake." But there is nothing even
close to being at the point of sounding like a real piano.

I hear you. For folks with golden ears - only real will do. Of course, how
much of the public has golden ears? Grin

So would you say the Yamaha is as good as it gets for under $10K?

Thanks much,
-lee-

In article ospam writes:

Hey - I'd love to get something great for that cheap. Is the Yamaha really
good enough for solid recordings as opposed to stage performances?

It depends on what you're recording. It's certainly good enough,
probably even preferable both for sound and convenience, in a pop
music band setting, and certainly good enough for a songwriter demo.
You won't easily convince a classical or traditional jazz pianist to
record on an electronic piano though.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Leoaw3 wrote:

Picky piano players won't be happy with anything but a real piano, I fear.

Yah, I know. There will always be some folks that will not accept anything but
the "real thing"....even if the sound is better. For them, I have a remote
piano that I can use once in a while. I'm hoping to have something that works
*most* of the time in-house.

Thanks,
-lee-

I'm simply repeating what I have heard , but the state-of-the-art in
sampled pinaners is s'posed to be Gigasampler. And I could be several
months out of date.

Track the piano part with the QS-8 to MIDI, then render the piano
parts using Giga to a .wav file, for mixing.

But a real piano is a business-getter for a studio.

--
Les Cargill

As a Kurzweil Grand Ensemble Mark 5 owner, I can recommend the Kurzweil
line. For great piano sounds you don't have to go to the Mark 12. Those
are just more sounds, but the piano sound is the same.

Mine, however, is a 1994 model although it still kicks but. No one,
including all the jazz players that come over, have had any complaints about
the Mark 5. I am, however, looking for a live unit and that it probably
going to be a Kawai M9500, but I sit and play the Mark 5 for hours and love
every minute. If you want to spend extra money for the Mark 12 just realize
that you're spending money on extra sounds that you could use a soft synth
to get. But nothing that I've run across beats a Kurzweil for stablility
and sound quality. I bang the **** out of my piano just like I did my 50"
studio upright when I was growing up. The difference is that I actually
broke a couple of bass strings on the real piano, and that one needed
tuning.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
RAP FAQ and Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at
www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.





"Leoaw3" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I've googled through the past thoughts around this topic, but in this
industry
things a couple of years old are way out of date. ;)

What is the best digital piano for a small recording studio? I'm looking
for
1) great sound
2) great keyboard action
3) reasonable price ($10K absolute max)
4) small size to fit in the room

I'm leaning toward the Kurzweil Mark 12 (about $4800.). What else should
I
look at? What sounds better - a digital piano, or a keyboard driving a
soft
synth?

Thanks,
-lee-

Well, if you had said Ray Charles, I'd agee. Billy Joel plays a piano, a
real one.

And the Yammies suck, in my opinion, but you can ask Steve Holt about the
Yammies vs my Kurzweil.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
RAP FAQ and Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at
www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.





"Jimmy Lee" wrote in message
...
No contest. The Yamaha P250. You can get it for about $1900.00 at
www.zzounds.com . I have played them all. This is the very best. I own an
acoustic Yamaha grand piano w/ midi capability for recording, as well. The
P250 is nearly as good, and MUCH easier to record because there are no
mics
to worry about. Get it. You will love it, love it, and love it.

And you see that Yamaha Grand that Billy Joel has been playing on stage
with
Elton? Fake. It is a grand case, that is EMPTY with a P-250 nestled inside
it. The grand case is for looks only. He is playing a digital piano. Elton
is playing the real Yamaha grand, though.

Thanks,
JL
www.cdbaby.com/jimmylee


"Leoaw3" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I've googled through the past thoughts around this topic, but in this
industry
things a couple of years old are way out of date. ;)

What is the best digital piano for a small recording studio? I'm
looking
for
1) great sound
2) great keyboard action
3) reasonable price ($10K absolute max)
4) small size to fit in the room

I'm leaning toward the Kurzweil Mark 12 (about $4800.). What else
should
I
look at? What sounds better - a digital piano, or a keyboard driving a
soft
synth?

Thanks,
-lee-

NO. If you play piano, don't play a Yamaha, either in the digital or
acoustic. Play a Baldwin or a Steinway or even a Knabe. Or, play a
Kurzweil digital piano and have the best of both worlds. Acoustic sound and
no tuning required. I've had my Kurzweil Grand Ensemble Mark 5 since 1994
and I gave up a Kawai 54" studio upright to get it because I couldn't move
the upright into the studio. And I never have to have my piano tuned.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
RAP FAQ and Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at
www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.





"Leoaw3" wrote in message
...
Hey - I'd love to get something great for that cheap. Is the Yamaha
really
good enough for solid recordings as opposed to stage performances?

-lee-

As a Clavinova user, I'm going to go ahead and mention that line, even though
it may appear more as furniture than a serious keyboard to some. The low end
Clavinovas are worthless, but the higher end ones have a nice tone (sample).
The weight of the keys is excellent as well. I had a musician come in with his
Alesis recently, and we both decided to ditch it in favor of the Clavinova. I
can tell the difference between it and a real piano, but it still beats many of
the key sounds on Nashville records today.

-John Vice
www.summertimestudios.com

Then I've already given you the answer above.

Two things seriously have a place in piano playing. The sound, and no
Yammie or Roland has it, and the absolute solidity of a real piano. There's
no piano player that wants synth action, there's no piano player that wants
bounce, there's only piano players that want to sit down at a solid action
on a solid keyboard that doesn't move when they play it.

General Music, Kawaii and Kurzweil make piano playing fun. The rest are for
keyboard players playing piano, and it's not the same. But you don't have
to trust me. If you're in the market, take a piano player with you.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
RAP FAQ and Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at
www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.





"Leoaw3" wrote in message
...
I actually have a Alesis QS8. I like it, and pretty much like the sounds
(esp.
with the grand piano Qcard.) However, even *I* (lamo keyboardist) can
tell the
difference in feel between the Alesis and a "real" piano. I want an
instrument
that convinces picky piano players that it is OK to go digital. I'm not
looking for OK, but for "wow!".

-lee-

Not true, but the better the piano like structure, the better they like it.
****, the better I like it. I couldn't stand the Yammie P series. What I
want is a piano that sits solid when I play, has action like a piano, and
has the ability to allow me to play as loud as I want and then hit one note
that's as quiet as a normal piano can get. Kurzweil digital Grand Ensemble
Mark 5 is what I bought and that's what I've been using for 10 years now and
I love it. Read my above remarks.

I am a piano player. I've played piano for 46 years now. I have no
problems going over to my 10 year old Kurzweil and playing to my heart's
content.

I'm not trying to justify it. I'm saying that people look at the sounds
rather than what a piano player wants. A piano player wants good piano
sounds with good piano action. The rest is fluff.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
RAP FAQ and Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at
www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.





"Les Cargill" wrote in message
...
Leoaw3 wrote:

I actually have a Alesis QS8. I like it, and pretty much like the
sounds (esp.
with the grand piano Qcard.) However, even *I* (lamo keyboardist) can
tell the
difference in feel between the Alesis and a "real" piano. I want an
instrument
that convinces picky piano players that it is OK to go digital. I'm not
looking for OK, but for "wow!".

-lee-

Picky piano players won't be happy with anything but a real piano, I fear.

--
Les Cargill

NO.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
RAP FAQ and Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at
www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.





"Leoaw3" wrote in message
...
Scott Dorsey wrote:

The Yamaha sounds sort of like a real piano. It's good enough that you
can
listen to the playback and think "hey, there's something wrong with that
piano"
instead of "hey, that piano sounds really fake." But there is nothing
even
close to being at the point of sounding like a real piano.

I hear you. For folks with golden ears - only real will do. Of course,
how
much of the public has golden ears? Grin

So would you say the Yamaha is as good as it gets for under $10K?

Thanks much,
-lee-

Now that's a real situation. No matter how much I like my Kurzweil,
initially I have people that want to use some synth action keyboard or some
Yammie piece of ****, and then play mine and wonder how it sounds so much
like a piano. I don't care how, I just care that it does. Were I to have
more space and more easily accessed space at that, then I'd have a real
piano down here. And I'd spend money every week having it tuned and it
wouldn't sound any better than the Kurzweil unless I bought a $20k Steinway.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
RAP FAQ and Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at
www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.





"Les Cargill" wrote in message
...
Leoaw3 wrote:

Picky piano players won't be happy with anything but a real piano, I
fear.

Yah, I know. There will always be some folks that will not accept
anything but
the "real thing"....even if the sound is better. For them, I have a
remote
piano that I can use once in a while. I'm hoping to have something that
works
*most* of the time in-house.

Thanks,
-lee-

I'm simply repeating what I have heard , but the state-of-the-art in
sampled pinaners is s'posed to be Gigasampler. And I could be several
months out of date.

Track the piano part with the QS-8 to MIDI, then render the piano
parts using Giga to a .wav file, for mixing.

But a real piano is a business-getter for a studio.

--
Les Cargill

"Roger W. Norman" wrote:

Not true, but the better the piano like structure, the better they like it.
****, the better I like it. I couldn't stand the Yammie P series. What I
want is a piano that sits solid when I play, has action like a piano, and
has the ability to allow me to play as loud as I want and then hit one note
that's as quiet as a normal piano can get. Kurzweil digital Grand Ensemble
Mark 5 is what I bought and that's what I've been using for 10 years now and
I love it. Read my above remarks.


Roger, I didn't even know them things existed g

I am a piano player. I've played piano for 46 years now. I have no
problems going over to my 10 year old Kurzweil and playing to my heart's
content.

I'm not trying to justify it. I'm saying that people look at the sounds
rather than what a piano player wants. A piano player wants good piano
sounds with good piano action. The rest is fluff.

--

Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
RAP FAQ and Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at
www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.

"Les Cargill" wrote in message
...
Leoaw3 wrote:

I actually have a Alesis QS8. I like it, and pretty much like the
sounds (esp.
with the grand piano Qcard.) However, even *I* (lamo keyboardist) can
tell the
difference in feel between the Alesis and a "real" piano. I want an
instrument
that convinces picky piano players that it is OK to go digital. I'm not
looking for OK, but for "wow!".

-lee-

Picky piano players won't be happy with anything but a real piano, I fear.

--
Les Cargill


--
Les Cargill

Leoaw3 wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

The Yamaha sounds sort of like a real piano. It's good enough that you can
listen to the playback and think "hey, there's something wrong with that
piano"
instead of "hey, that piano sounds really fake." But there is nothing even
close to being at the point of sounding like a real piano.

I hear you. For folks with golden ears - only real will do. Of course, how
much of the public has golden ears? Grin

So would you say the Yamaha is as good as it gets for under $10K?

I dunno. It's the best I have heard under $10k. There may well be something
much better out there that I haven't heard.

But for $10k you can get a piano. Not a great piano, but a real piano.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Roger W. Norman wrote:
NO. If you play piano, don't play a Yamaha, either in the digital or
acoustic. Play a Baldwin or a Steinway or even a Knabe. Or, play a
Kurzweil digital piano and have the best of both worlds. Acoustic sound and
no tuning required. I've had my Kurzweil Grand Ensemble Mark 5 since 1994
and I gave up a Kawai 54" studio upright to get it because I couldn't move
the upright into the studio. And I never have to have my piano tuned.

It's weird... I grew up mostly in the Pacific, where Yamaha pianos sound
pretty good, and Steinways tend to be very wooly. But here on the east
coast, Yamaha grands tend to be very tinkly and nasal and Steinways sound
a lot better. So I think it has a lot to do with the climate, too.

Some of the best pianos I have played were Petrovs. That wasn't here,
though. Dunno what they'd sound like here.

Caruso endorsed the Knabe baby grands. That should be enough for anyone,
right?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Roger, I've only played for about half of your years (20) but I still feel
that's enough to form a decent level of experience. I can understand making a
recommendation, but why are you so fanatical about your Kurzweil? Also, how
can you in good conscience recommend a Baldwin to anyone looking for a real
piano sound? I've yet to see a Baldwin in all my years of playing that
competes with Petrov, Yamaha, or Young-Chang for God's sake. I'll take my
Wurlitzer spinnet any day. Well, maybe I won't go that far, but still...
Baldwin makes some fine acting brothers, but only mediocre pianos. I've never
played a Mark 5, but I'll admit you've intrigued me enough to go find one and
try it! My question for you is, have you ever played one of the top of the
line Clavinovas? If so, I'm really curious as to your thoughts on the feel of
them. I think the action is great for a digital piano.



NO. If you play piano, don't play a Yamaha, either in the digital or
acoustic. Play a Baldwin or a Steinway or even a Knabe. Or, play a
Kurzweil digital piano and have the best of both worlds. Acoustic sound and
no tuning required. I've had my Kurzweil Grand Ensemble Mark 5 since 1994
and I gave up a Kawai 54" studio upright to get it because I couldn't move
the upright into the studio. And I never have to have my piano tuned.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
RAP FAQ and Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at
www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.





"Leoaw3" wrote in message
...
Hey - I'd love to get something great for that cheap. Is the Yamaha
really
good enough for solid recordings as opposed to stage performances?

-lee-


-John Vice
www.summertimestudios.com

OK, Roger -- you're making a good case for the Kurzweil. It looks like the
Mark 5 has been superceded by the Mark 6. Any thoughts about where to buy this
beast? Swee****er only has the Mark 12 and the 150, afaik.

In looking at the two - the Kurzweil "looks" more like a piano. The Yamaha
talks about sampling each note at multiple volumes, and having a keyboard where
the bass section is designed to be a little harder to press than the treble
section, etc.

Of course, I could build the Yammie into a very piano looking case... grin

Anyone know of anyplace in the greater southern california area that might have
both in stock so I could A/B them?

Thanks,
-lee-

I've had a number of fairly fussy players content with this
combination:

Yamaha S90 as the controller (nice feel).

Kurzweil 2500 loaded with the "Key Solutions" Sample of Vladimir
Horowitz's 1928 Steinway D. You can still get the Key Solutions CD, I
believe. Some players comment that it sounds just fine (even REALLY
fine).

The programming of the patches is excellent, and the price is well
under your max:

Yam S90: $2,000
K2600: $4,000
Key Sol: $ 150

Good luck!

You can hear this setup in action at http://www.erinmillermusic.com .
.. . a recent client - although it's an mp3 on the site, of course

Peter in St. Louis


"ryanm" wrote in message ...
"t fitzgerald" wrote in message
...
I have recorded the Roland RD500 and RD600 with good results. The
players like the action and the different piano sound selections.
Brighter darker etc. I haven't used the Yamaha's so I couldn't compare
them. Todd

I would second the RD500, my key player (who was strictly a traditional
piano player for 15 years before starting to play rock keys) has one and the
feel of the weighted keys is excellent. There are a few good piano patches
and a handful of good rhodes patches on there as well, and it has midi
in/out/thru so you can always hook it up to a midi box or something like
gigasampler to get different pianos and stuff. Haven't played the RD600, but
I would assume that it is simply an improved RD500, being a newer model.
Also, I think he got his RD500 for around $1500 or less, but I haven't
looked at the prices of keyboards lately, so I don't know what they go for
today.

ryanm

b9rel8tor wrote:

You can hear this setup in action at http://www.erinmillermusic.com .
. . a recent client - although it's an mp3 on the site, of course


Nice stuff! Especially Believin’ Love, I like it. However, the piano
still doesn't sound real to me, a bit on the dark side and not very
dynamic. I still find the only way to get the touch and sheen of a real
piano is with a real piano.

Here is an MP3 of a song I recorded for a friend using a Steinway in a
real nice room. Wish I could find a digital piano that sounds like this.

http://artists2.iuma.com/site-bin/mp3gen/59271/IUMA/Bands/Peter_Himmelman/audio/Peter_Himmelman_-_Michael.mp3

Or check out this piano number. And the vocals, no auto tune there, many
tracks of vocals.

http://artists2.iuma.com/site-bin/mp3gen/59271/IUMA/Bands/Peter_Himmelman/audio/Peter_Himmelman_-_Mannequin.mp3

YES! I play a Yamaha Acoustic Grand as well. I love the P250. Damn is it
great. It records well, too. I am thinking about giving up recording on my
Yamaha Grand and go exclusively with the P250. I just had my grand tuned
again today though, so I may ride it out for awhile. I am getting tired of
placing mics, worrying about phase cancellation, and being concerned that I
will get vocal bleed through my piano mics, as well as squeaks from my piano
bench and noise from wherever.

Let me be clear here. I admit it. I all-out prefer Yamaha pianos to any
other. To me, there is no contest. None. I know others may differ, but not
me. So you need to know that going in. I am biased. I love their action, and
I love their sound. With that said, the digital P250 makes me wonder whether
or not I really need the grand at all. You will not be sorry. Yamahas are
usually very reliable as well. I beat the hell out of a Clavinova on the
road for many years. Then I went to a Fatar controller with Piano midi
modules. The Fatar controller keys all squeak like hell now. Can't get them
to stop. And remember, the last time I looked, Fatar was making the action
in the Kurzweils. Reason enough to stay away. On a side note, if my cat does
not stop puking on top of my grand, he is going to get GASSED!

Just my two cents. Others will have opinions that vary. But I have been on
the road and in the studio on acoustic pianos and digitals for many years.
So use it as you see fit.

Jimmy Lee
www.cdbaby.com/jimmylee


"Leoaw3" wrote in message
...
Hey - I'd love to get something great for that cheap. Is the Yamaha
really
good enough for solid recordings as opposed to stage performances?

-lee-

Can't be climate for me. I keep my room at 72F and 40-45% humidity year
round with a humidifier as needed. I love that tinkly sound from a Yamaha.
Bright, and clear. It really cuts. The Steinways are wayy dark and woody for
my liking. Don't forget reliability. Yamahas tend to be more bullet proof
that lots of others. Baldwins? Ugh. Knabe? Pound one like I pound my Yamaha,
and its action will show wear in a year.

I LOVE Yamaha piano action. And they hold up to the beating.

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Roger W. Norman wrote:
NO. If you play piano, don't play a Yamaha, either in the digital or
acoustic. Play a Baldwin or a Steinway or even a Knabe. Or, play a
Kurzweil digital piano and have the best of both worlds. Acoustic sound
and
no tuning required. I've had my Kurzweil Grand Ensemble Mark 5 since
1994
and I gave up a Kawai 54" studio upright to get it because I couldn't
move
the upright into the studio. And I never have to have my piano tuned.

It's weird... I grew up mostly in the Pacific, where Yamaha pianos sound
pretty good, and Steinways tend to be very wooly. But here on the east
coast, Yamaha grands tend to be very tinkly and nasal and Steinways sound
a lot better. So I think it has a lot to do with the climate, too.

Some of the best pianos I have played were Petrovs. That wasn't here,
though. Dunno what they'd sound like here.

Caruso endorsed the Knabe baby grands. That should be enough for anyone,
right?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

The consumer P120 is JUNK compared to the professional P250. I played a
P120. I agree all the way. BIG DIFFERENCES in these two keyboards.

"Les Cargill" wrote in message
...
Jimmy Lee wrote:

No contest. The Yamaha P250. You can get it for about $1900.00 at
www.zzounds.com . I have played them all. This is the very best. I own
an
acoustic Yamaha grand piano w/ midi capability for recording, as well.
The
P250 is nearly as good, and MUCH easier to record because there are no
mics
to worry about. Get it. You will love it, love it, and love it.

And you see that Yamaha Grand that Billy Joel has been playing on stage
with
Elton? Fake. It is a grand case, that is EMPTY with a P-250 nestled
inside
it. The grand case is for looks only. He is playing a digital piano.
Elton
is playing the real Yamaha grand, though.


FWIW, when Elton and Billy Joel were on what, "Storytellers"? they
used Kurzweils embedded in a grand piano case.

I'd avoid the Yamaha P120. Maybe the P250 sounds better, but the P120
sounds like plastic.


Thanks,
JL
www.cdbaby.com/jimmylee

"Leoaw3" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I've googled through the past thoughts around this topic, but in this
industry
things a couple of years old are way out of date. ;)

What is the best digital piano for a small recording studio? I'm
looking
for
1) great sound
2) great keyboard action
3) reasonable price ($10K absolute max)
4) small size to fit in the room

I'm leaning toward the Kurzweil Mark 12 (about $4800.). What else
should
I
look at? What sounds better - a digital piano, or a keyboard driving
a
soft
synth?

Thanks,
-lee-


--
Les Cargill

Yamahas rule the roost for the action. Play a P250 digital, and you will be
amazed. As far as Baldwin pianos? His opinion of them makes me wonder about
the validity of the rest of his thinking. I am sure he has his reasons, but
I see no way a reasonably informed man could form that opinion in an
unbiased fashion. Debating a Mercedes vs a BMW, I understand. But debating
a Yugo against a BMW I do not.

I think John has an axe to grind against Yamaha for some reason. And I
respect that.

"John" wrote in message
...
Roger, I've only played for about half of your years (20) but I still feel
that's enough to form a decent level of experience. I can understand
making a
recommendation, but why are you so fanatical about your Kurzweil? Also,
how
can you in good conscience recommend a Baldwin to anyone looking for a
real
piano sound? I've yet to see a Baldwin in all my years of playing that
competes with Petrov, Yamaha, or Young-Chang for God's sake. I'll take my
Wurlitzer spinnet any day. Well, maybe I won't go that far, but still...
Baldwin makes some fine acting brothers, but only mediocre pianos. I've
never
played a Mark 5, but I'll admit you've intrigued me enough to go find one
and
try it! My question for you is, have you ever played one of the top of
the
line Clavinovas? If so, I'm really curious as to your thoughts on the
feel of
them. I think the action is great for a digital piano.



NO. If you play piano, don't play a Yamaha, either in the digital or
acoustic. Play a Baldwin or a Steinway or even a Knabe. Or, play a
Kurzweil digital piano and have the best of both worlds. Acoustic sound
and
no tuning required. I've had my Kurzweil Grand Ensemble Mark 5 since
1994
and I gave up a Kawai 54" studio upright to get it because I couldn't
move
the upright into the studio. And I never have to have my piano tuned.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
RAP FAQ and Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at
www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.





"Leoaw3" wrote in message
...
Hey - I'd love to get something great for that cheap. Is the Yamaha
really
good enough for solid recordings as opposed to stage performances?

-lee-


-John Vice
www.summertimestudios.com

Roger, Billy Joel plays Yamaha pianos, and endorses them. Elton stopped
playing Steinways, and plays Yamaha pianos. And on tour with Elton, Billy
plays a digital piano embedded in a grand piano case (for show) that is
empty. Saw it myself.

"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message
...
Well, if you had said Ray Charles, I'd agee. Billy Joel plays a piano, a
real one.

And the Yammies suck, in my opinion, but you can ask Steve Holt about the
Yammies vs my Kurzweil.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
RAP FAQ and Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at
www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.





"Jimmy Lee" wrote in message
...
No contest. The Yamaha P250. You can get it for about $1900.00 at
www.zzounds.com . I have played them all. This is the very best. I own
an
acoustic Yamaha grand piano w/ midi capability for recording, as well.
The
P250 is nearly as good, and MUCH easier to record because there are no
mics
to worry about. Get it. You will love it, love it, and love it.

And you see that Yamaha Grand that Billy Joel has been playing on stage
with
Elton? Fake. It is a grand case, that is EMPTY with a P-250 nestled
inside
it. The grand case is for looks only. He is playing a digital piano.
Elton
is playing the real Yamaha grand, though.

Thanks,
JL
www.cdbaby.com/jimmylee


"Leoaw3" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I've googled through the past thoughts around this topic, but in this
industry
things a couple of years old are way out of date. ;)

What is the best digital piano for a small recording studio? I'm
looking
for
1) great sound
2) great keyboard action
3) reasonable price ($10K absolute max)
4) small size to fit in the room

I'm leaning toward the Kurzweil Mark 12 (about $4800.). What else
should
I
look at? What sounds better - a digital piano, or a keyboard driving
a
soft
synth?

Thanks,
-lee-

YES!

"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message
...
NO.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
RAP FAQ and Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at
www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.





"Leoaw3" wrote in message
...
Scott Dorsey wrote:

The Yamaha sounds sort of like a real piano. It's good enough that you
can
listen to the playback and think "hey, there's something wrong with
that
piano"
instead of "hey, that piano sounds really fake." But there is nothing
even
close to being at the point of sounding like a real piano.

I hear you. For folks with golden ears - only real will do. Of course,
how
much of the public has golden ears? Grin

So would you say the Yamaha is as good as it gets for under $10K?

Thanks much,
-lee-

Lee, do not listen to the person that yells the loudest. His Kurzweil may be
a great piano. But play a Yamaha P250, and look at its price tag. Look at
www.zzounds.com . It has great real piano action. Roger is the certainly the
loudest poster on this topic, but like in music, louder does not mean
better.

"Leoaw3" wrote in message
...
OK, Roger -- you're making a good case for the Kurzweil. It looks like
the
Mark 5 has been superceded by the Mark 6. Any thoughts about where to buy
this
beast? Swee****er only has the Mark 12 and the 150, afaik.

In looking at the two - the Kurzweil "looks" more like a piano. The
Yamaha
talks about sampling each note at multiple volumes, and having a keyboard
where
the bass section is designed to be a little harder to press than the
treble
section, etc.

Of course, I could build the Yammie into a very piano looking case...
grin

Anyone know of anyplace in the greater southern california area that might
have
both in stock so I could A/B them?

Thanks,
-lee-