http://www.prosoundweb.com/recording...iccompare.shtm
l

link didn't work for me?

http://www.prosoundweb.com/recording...iccompare.shtm
l

link didn't work for me?

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:znr1100526489k@trad...
In article writes:

I'm looking for a good all around mic so I'm not sure if i should get
another small condensor stereo pair, like the NT-5's.

The closest thing I've found to a good all around mic is a Neumann
KM84, but you can't buy them new any more and used ones go for close
to twice your budget (each).

While you're on the right track trying mics in the shop, the acoustics
are bound to be different than how you're recording at home, and that
will make a large difference unless you're placing the mic(s) very
close to the guitar (which you're not). What you're hearing is not so
much the difference in the response of the mics straight on, but
rather how they sound off axis, picking up the reflections of the
guitar off the floor and walls. Those reflections will be different at
home than at the shop.

The NT5 mics are good, maybe a little better than what you have now,
but I suggest that rather than change the mics, you change the way
(and place) you're recording first. It may sound great to you in that
stairwell, but it obviously doesn't record very well. This is not
uncommon in an reflective space.

thanks. I did mic pretty close (about 1ft), also i put the MXL in the
exact same position as a control so i thought the relative comparison
should be OK.
This whole mic thing is overwhelming. I went to mercenary.com today
just to browse. There's just so many mics out there. They had a few
more brands i never heard of in my price range. It's probably very
similar to buying a classical guitar. Now that's something i know more
about. There's all the crap you see at guitar center and sam ash, and
then there are the real guitars that you have to search for. You
really have to shell out at least $2000 to get a good classical. Is it
the same with mics? And more importantly, with my modest equipment
will i hear the difference between a $2000 Neumann and an $100 mxl?

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:znr1100526489k@trad...
In article writes:

I'm looking for a good all around mic so I'm not sure if i should get
another small condensor stereo pair, like the NT-5's.

The closest thing I've found to a good all around mic is a Neumann
KM84, but you can't buy them new any more and used ones go for close
to twice your budget (each).

While you're on the right track trying mics in the shop, the acoustics
are bound to be different than how you're recording at home, and that
will make a large difference unless you're placing the mic(s) very
close to the guitar (which you're not). What you're hearing is not so
much the difference in the response of the mics straight on, but
rather how they sound off axis, picking up the reflections of the
guitar off the floor and walls. Those reflections will be different at
home than at the shop.

The NT5 mics are good, maybe a little better than what you have now,
but I suggest that rather than change the mics, you change the way
(and place) you're recording first. It may sound great to you in that
stairwell, but it obviously doesn't record very well. This is not
uncommon in an reflective space.

thanks. I did mic pretty close (about 1ft), also i put the MXL in the
exact same position as a control so i thought the relative comparison
should be OK.
This whole mic thing is overwhelming. I went to mercenary.com today
just to browse. There's just so many mics out there. They had a few
more brands i never heard of in my price range. It's probably very
similar to buying a classical guitar. Now that's something i know more
about. There's all the crap you see at guitar center and sam ash, and
then there are the real guitars that you have to search for. You
really have to shell out at least $2000 to get a good classical. Is it
the same with mics? And more importantly, with my modest equipment
will i hear the difference between a $2000 Neumann and an $100 mxl?

"caveplayer" wrote in message
om...
(Mike Rivers) wrote in message
news:znr1100526489k@trad...

thanks. I did mic pretty close (about 1ft), also i put the MXL in the
exact same position as a control so i thought the relative comparison
should be OK.
This whole mic thing is overwhelming. I went to mercenary.com today
just to browse. There's just so many mics out there. They had a few
more brands i never heard of in my price range. It's probably very
similar to buying a classical guitar. Now that's something i know more
about. There's all the crap you see at guitar center and sam ash, and
then there are the real guitars that you have to search for. You
really have to shell out at least $2000 to get a good classical. Is it
the same with mics?

It sort of is; as with guitars, there are several price points where
microphones take a quantum leap. Microphones in the $300-600 range tend to
sound a lot better on many applications than microphones less than $300.
Mikes in the $600-1000 range are usually a major step up again. And from
$1000 up most of the microphones are excellent quality, but differ radically
in their sound, just as good guitars do. At that point you choose
characteristics, as you do with guitars.

I used a lot of weasel words in that paragraph, because there are a lot of
fudge factors. I said "on many applications" because some mikes work
wonderfully on some things and horribly on others, and that differs for
different users as well. For example, I think a Shure SM81 is a moderately
decent microphone in the $350 price range -- not fantastic, but decent --
for a lot of different instruments. To my ears, though, it stinks for
vocals. But WFMT in Chicago, a radio station with a helluva reputation for
good sound, uses it as an announce mike. Similarly, I usually don't think
much of a Neumann KM-84 for vocals, other than distant-miking choirs. But
it's fantastic on many instruments, including some guitars. But not all. And
so on.

Also, there are a few microphones which belie their price points. A good
pair of Oktava MC012s can do things that you wouldn't expect from mikes that
go for $199 apiece. Maybe they're not up there with Schoepses and the like,
but there have been instruments (like my bandmate's mandolin) where they
sounded better than a KM-84. If you get 'em from the Sound Room, so you have
some quality control, they might be a good start for you.

And more importantly, with my modest equipment
will i hear the difference between a $2000 Neumann and an $100 mxl?

With some listening experience, yes. I can hear the differences between
microphones on a cassette deck, and so, I venture to say, could most of the
folks on this newsgroup.

Peace,
Paul

"caveplayer" wrote in message
om...
(Mike Rivers) wrote in message
news:znr1100526489k@trad...

thanks. I did mic pretty close (about 1ft), also i put the MXL in the
exact same position as a control so i thought the relative comparison
should be OK.
This whole mic thing is overwhelming. I went to mercenary.com today
just to browse. There's just so many mics out there. They had a few
more brands i never heard of in my price range. It's probably very
similar to buying a classical guitar. Now that's something i know more
about. There's all the crap you see at guitar center and sam ash, and
then there are the real guitars that you have to search for. You
really have to shell out at least $2000 to get a good classical. Is it
the same with mics?

It sort of is; as with guitars, there are several price points where
microphones take a quantum leap. Microphones in the $300-600 range tend to
sound a lot better on many applications than microphones less than $300.
Mikes in the $600-1000 range are usually a major step up again. And from
$1000 up most of the microphones are excellent quality, but differ radically
in their sound, just as good guitars do. At that point you choose
characteristics, as you do with guitars.

I used a lot of weasel words in that paragraph, because there are a lot of
fudge factors. I said "on many applications" because some mikes work
wonderfully on some things and horribly on others, and that differs for
different users as well. For example, I think a Shure SM81 is a moderately
decent microphone in the $350 price range -- not fantastic, but decent --
for a lot of different instruments. To my ears, though, it stinks for
vocals. But WFMT in Chicago, a radio station with a helluva reputation for
good sound, uses it as an announce mike. Similarly, I usually don't think
much of a Neumann KM-84 for vocals, other than distant-miking choirs. But
it's fantastic on many instruments, including some guitars. But not all. And
so on.

Also, there are a few microphones which belie their price points. A good
pair of Oktava MC012s can do things that you wouldn't expect from mikes that
go for $199 apiece. Maybe they're not up there with Schoepses and the like,
but there have been instruments (like my bandmate's mandolin) where they
sounded better than a KM-84. If you get 'em from the Sound Room, so you have
some quality control, they might be a good start for you.

And more importantly, with my modest equipment
will i hear the difference between a $2000 Neumann and an $100 mxl?

With some listening experience, yes. I can hear the differences between
microphones on a cassette deck, and so, I venture to say, could most of the
folks on this newsgroup.

Peace,
Paul

On 2004-11-16, caveplayer wrote:

There's all the crap you see at guitar center and sam ash, and
then there are the real guitars that you have to search for. You
really have to shell out at least $2000 to get a good classical.

Making it one of the less expensive of classical instruments.
You'll get no sympathy from me (a piano player) or my spouse (a french horn
player).

On 2004-11-16, caveplayer wrote:

There's all the crap you see at guitar center and sam ash, and
then there are the real guitars that you have to search for. You
really have to shell out at least $2000 to get a good classical.

Making it one of the less expensive of classical instruments.
You'll get no sympathy from me (a piano player) or my spouse (a french horn
player).

"caveplayer" wrote in message
om

Yes, i know there have been posts on this but I'm lazy, OK.
I'm recording classical guitar with 2 MXL 603S's into a Tascam us122
into laptop. Not completely happy with the sound. It's good but I'm
extremely fussy. I've spent countless nights optimizing mic placement
and am at the point of saying, well maybe i should have bought one
good mic instead of two mediocre one's. At least i would have saved
alot of time messing around with placement.

Let's play a game called "know your mics".

IME, the most notable thing about MXL 603s is that they are broad cardioids.
Therefore, when you work with them you get a lot more *room* in the track
than you would get with more typical, narrower cardioids. If the room is
good, then picking up room is a good thing. If the room is problematical,
well then you probably don't want to use 603s.

To me, the important thing is having alternatives. With *JUST* 603's your
life is a one-option feasibility study.

IME with mics, there is no such thing as one-size-fits-all. If there was,
then a mic like the 603 might be a good choice because it is reasonably
flat, has some directivity, and is not especially noisy. OTOH, the 603 is a
horrid hand-held vocal mic, for example. Put it on a stand with a good pop
filter, and it can do some nice stuff.

When I was looking for a true cardioid to be an alternative to 603s for live
sound, for better or worse I picked CAD 95s (current model = CAD 195, a
slightly different mic).

No surprise to me, I ended up using lot more 95s (8 used all the time) than
603s (4 used less frequently). They have an appreciably narrower true
cardioid pickup pattern, and they have really good shock and handling noise
resistance. They are designed to be a close-working vocal mic, but they are
sensitive enough and warm enough to be used over longer distances. These
mics cost me an average of $75 each after a few months of picking them off
when they showed up on eBay. No big investment, but performers like them,
and they work for me.

When I was looking for a true omni to be an alternative to 603s for live
sound, for better or worse I picked Behringer ECM 8000s. They are
incredibly omni. In a live sound context, such residual background noise
issues as they may have, are not problematical. I'm probably one of the just
three people in the universe who use omnis for live sound but they can work
in some contexts. Note, an omni is going to prone to being noisy, even if
they are electrically quiet. I learned that after using DPA 1006s for about
18 months. Again, the 8000s are relatively uncolored mics.

So experts, please humor me and except the fact that it's not the
room, not my playing, and not placement. Where would you put your
money, souncard or mic.

Mics are very strong determining factors in sound color and sound quality.
Note, these are different things.

The guy at guitar center, I cringe every time
i walk in there, suggested i use an omni mic in combination with the
603. What gives there?

IME Guitar Center is a good place to stay away from. I can't buy an $3 XLR
connector or $1300 studio monitors in less than an hour, mostly spend
waiting around for too-little staff to deal with customers who don't know
what they want. Their staff does not impress me and I would never rely on
them for purchasing advice anyhow, so the time is a total loss.

Anyway, i'm willing to spend maybe a few
hundred bucks on another mic if it helps. Any advice/suggestions??

If I had to do it all over again, and I had only a pair of 603s, I'd pick up
a pair of 8000s and a pair of 195s and see where they took me. I'd do the
purchases online, even if it turned out that Musican's Friend (Guitar Center
in online drag) turned out to be the retailer of choice.

"caveplayer" wrote in message
om

Yes, i know there have been posts on this but I'm lazy, OK.
I'm recording classical guitar with 2 MXL 603S's into a Tascam us122
into laptop. Not completely happy with the sound. It's good but I'm
extremely fussy. I've spent countless nights optimizing mic placement
and am at the point of saying, well maybe i should have bought one
good mic instead of two mediocre one's. At least i would have saved
alot of time messing around with placement.

Let's play a game called "know your mics".

IME, the most notable thing about MXL 603s is that they are broad cardioids.
Therefore, when you work with them you get a lot more *room* in the track
than you would get with more typical, narrower cardioids. If the room is
good, then picking up room is a good thing. If the room is problematical,
well then you probably don't want to use 603s.

To me, the important thing is having alternatives. With *JUST* 603's your
life is a one-option feasibility study.

IME with mics, there is no such thing as one-size-fits-all. If there was,
then a mic like the 603 might be a good choice because it is reasonably
flat, has some directivity, and is not especially noisy. OTOH, the 603 is a
horrid hand-held vocal mic, for example. Put it on a stand with a good pop
filter, and it can do some nice stuff.

When I was looking for a true cardioid to be an alternative to 603s for live
sound, for better or worse I picked CAD 95s (current model = CAD 195, a
slightly different mic).

No surprise to me, I ended up using lot more 95s (8 used all the time) than
603s (4 used less frequently). They have an appreciably narrower true
cardioid pickup pattern, and they have really good shock and handling noise
resistance. They are designed to be a close-working vocal mic, but they are
sensitive enough and warm enough to be used over longer distances. These
mics cost me an average of $75 each after a few months of picking them off
when they showed up on eBay. No big investment, but performers like them,
and they work for me.

When I was looking for a true omni to be an alternative to 603s for live
sound, for better or worse I picked Behringer ECM 8000s. They are
incredibly omni. In a live sound context, such residual background noise
issues as they may have, are not problematical. I'm probably one of the just
three people in the universe who use omnis for live sound but they can work
in some contexts. Note, an omni is going to prone to being noisy, even if
they are electrically quiet. I learned that after using DPA 1006s for about
18 months. Again, the 8000s are relatively uncolored mics.

So experts, please humor me and except the fact that it's not the
room, not my playing, and not placement. Where would you put your
money, souncard or mic.

Mics are very strong determining factors in sound color and sound quality.
Note, these are different things.

The guy at guitar center, I cringe every time
i walk in there, suggested i use an omni mic in combination with the
603. What gives there?

IME Guitar Center is a good place to stay away from. I can't buy an $3 XLR
connector or $1300 studio monitors in less than an hour, mostly spend
waiting around for too-little staff to deal with customers who don't know
what they want. Their staff does not impress me and I would never rely on
them for purchasing advice anyhow, so the time is a total loss.

Anyway, i'm willing to spend maybe a few
hundred bucks on another mic if it helps. Any advice/suggestions??

If I had to do it all over again, and I had only a pair of 603s, I'd pick up
a pair of 8000s and a pair of 195s and see where they took me. I'd do the
purchases online, even if it turned out that Musican's Friend (Guitar Center
in online drag) turned out to be the retailer of choice.

In article writes:

This whole mic thing is overwhelming. I went to mercenary.com today
just to browse. There's just so many mics out there. They had a few
more brands i never heard of in my price range. It's probably very
similar to buying a classical guitar. Now that's something i know more
about. There's all the crap you see at guitar center and sam ash, and
then there are the real guitars that you have to search for.

So what was the process you went through to figure that out, and how
long did it take? g I wouldn't be surprised if today there are
classical guitar newsgroups where a number of people will tell you
which guitar to buy in any price range, and half the readers on those
newsgrouops will disagree. It's just the same with microphones. In
order to know which works for you, you just have to try them yourself.

You
really have to shell out at least $2000 to get a good classical. Is it
the same with mics?

If you've chosen the $2,000 guitar for good reasons, then probably
yes. At least when you get up into that price range, you get more
consistency in performance from unit to unit, more even frequency
response, and better controlled directivity patterns. But you probably
realize that there isn't one guitar that works for all situations, and
there isn't one microphone that works for all situations.

And more importantly, with my modest equipment
will i hear the difference between a $2000 Neumann and an $100 mxl?

If you can hear the difference between guitar store mics, you'll hear
the difference between one and a $2,000 Neumann. But there's no scale
that will express just how much difference you'll hear. And not just
any $2,000 mic will be right for your guitar, your style, and your
recording envionment. And as several people have expressed here, your
environment might be the most effective thing to change.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

This whole mic thing is overwhelming. I went to mercenary.com today
just to browse. There's just so many mics out there. They had a few
more brands i never heard of in my price range. It's probably very
similar to buying a classical guitar. Now that's something i know more
about. There's all the crap you see at guitar center and sam ash, and
then there are the real guitars that you have to search for.

So what was the process you went through to figure that out, and how
long did it take? g I wouldn't be surprised if today there are
classical guitar newsgroups where a number of people will tell you
which guitar to buy in any price range, and half the readers on those
newsgrouops will disagree. It's just the same with microphones. In
order to know which works for you, you just have to try them yourself.

You
really have to shell out at least $2000 to get a good classical. Is it
the same with mics?

If you've chosen the $2,000 guitar for good reasons, then probably
yes. At least when you get up into that price range, you get more
consistency in performance from unit to unit, more even frequency
response, and better controlled directivity patterns. But you probably
realize that there isn't one guitar that works for all situations, and
there isn't one microphone that works for all situations.

And more importantly, with my modest equipment
will i hear the difference between a $2000 Neumann and an $100 mxl?

If you can hear the difference between guitar store mics, you'll hear
the difference between one and a $2,000 Neumann. But there's no scale
that will express just how much difference you'll hear. And not just
any $2,000 mic will be right for your guitar, your style, and your
recording envionment. And as several people have expressed here, your
environment might be the most effective thing to change.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:09:30 -0500, caveplayer wrote
(in article ) :


http://www.prosoundweb.com/recording.../miccompare.sh
tm
l

link didn't work for me?

I'm not surprised. The line wrap moved the l to the next line. It's all one
string with no spaces

Ty Ford



http://www.prosoundweb.com/recording...iccompare.shtm
l

-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:09:30 -0500, caveplayer wrote
(in article ) :


http://www.prosoundweb.com/recording.../miccompare.sh
tm
l

link didn't work for me?

I'm not surprised. The line wrap moved the l to the next line. It's all one
string with no spaces

Ty Ford



http://www.prosoundweb.com/recording...iccompare.shtm
l

-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

thanks. I did mic pretty close (about 1ft), also i put the MXL in the
exact same position as a control so i thought the relative comparison
should be OK.
This whole mic thing is overwhelming. I went to mercenary.com today
just to browse. There's just so many mics out there. They had a few
more brands i never heard of in my price range. It's probably very
similar to buying a classical guitar. Now that's something i know more
about. There's all the crap you see at guitar center and sam ash, and
then there are the real guitars that you have to search for. You
really have to shell out at least $2000 to get a good classical. Is it
the same with mics? And more importantly, with my modest equipment
will i hear the difference between a $2000 Neumann and an $100 mxl?

If you use dead strings on a $4000 guitar, do you hear how good the guitar
is?

The chain is as strong as the weakest link. The more good stuff you have, the
better it gets, but yes, even in a so-so room (not a stairwell) getting a
really good mic makes quite a difference, providing you can figure out where
to put it.

Regards,

Ty Ford


-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

thanks. I did mic pretty close (about 1ft), also i put the MXL in the
exact same position as a control so i thought the relative comparison
should be OK.
This whole mic thing is overwhelming. I went to mercenary.com today
just to browse. There's just so many mics out there. They had a few
more brands i never heard of in my price range. It's probably very
similar to buying a classical guitar. Now that's something i know more
about. There's all the crap you see at guitar center and sam ash, and
then there are the real guitars that you have to search for. You
really have to shell out at least $2000 to get a good classical. Is it
the same with mics? And more importantly, with my modest equipment
will i hear the difference between a $2000 Neumann and an $100 mxl?

If you use dead strings on a $4000 guitar, do you hear how good the guitar
is?

The chain is as strong as the weakest link. The more good stuff you have, the
better it gets, but yes, even in a so-so room (not a stairwell) getting a
really good mic makes quite a difference, providing you can figure out where
to put it.

Regards,

Ty Ford


-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 09:00:10 -0500, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ):

Anyway, i'm willing to spend maybe a few
hundred bucks on another mic if it helps. Any advice/suggestions??


Spending a few hundred on a mic won't help. You have to aim higher.

You have been advised by others that a KM84 works very nicely. It does. So do
Schoeps. They are in the over $1000 range.

You have an antagonistic circumstances. Great guitar, not so great recording
gear/space. You are a player and not a recording facility.

Accept that you may not be able to do it all to get the sound you want.
Settle for less, or pay more. It's a simple thing really, we all deal with
it. This is a no-brainer.

Regards,

Ty Ford


-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 09:00:10 -0500, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ):

Anyway, i'm willing to spend maybe a few
hundred bucks on another mic if it helps. Any advice/suggestions??


Spending a few hundred on a mic won't help. You have to aim higher.

You have been advised by others that a KM84 works very nicely. It does. So do
Schoeps. They are in the over $1000 range.

You have an antagonistic circumstances. Great guitar, not so great recording
gear/space. You are a player and not a recording facility.

Accept that you may not be able to do it all to get the sound you want.
Settle for less, or pay more. It's a simple thing really, we all deal with
it. This is a no-brainer.

Regards,

Ty Ford


-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

In article writes:

link didn't work for me?

I'm not surprised. The line wrap moved the l to the next line. It's all one
string with no spaces

Next time, use TinyURL.com

http://tinyurl.com/6czw2


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

link didn't work for me?

I'm not surprised. The line wrap moved the l to the next line. It's all one
string with no spaces

Next time, use TinyURL.com

http://tinyurl.com/6czw2


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

You have an antagonistic circumstances. Great guitar, not so great recording
gear/space. You are a player and not a recording facility.

Accept that you may not be able to do it all to get the sound you want.
Settle for less, or pay more. It's a simple thing really, we all deal with
it. This is a no-brainer.

Great advice in general, but he said he's willing to pay more and he's
wondering if he'll get more or will still have to settle for less than
he's dreaming of. I think that until he works with the environment and
gets a good sound out of the mics he has, he won't get a significant
improvement with a $2,000 mic.

My first suggestion was that he spend some money at a studio, but he's
not ready for that yet (as a player).

I think he's fighting a learning battle.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

You have an antagonistic circumstances. Great guitar, not so great recording
gear/space. You are a player and not a recording facility.

Accept that you may not be able to do it all to get the sound you want.
Settle for less, or pay more. It's a simple thing really, we all deal with
it. This is a no-brainer.

Great advice in general, but he said he's willing to pay more and he's
wondering if he'll get more or will still have to settle for less than
he's dreaming of. I think that until he works with the environment and
gets a good sound out of the mics he has, he won't get a significant
improvement with a $2,000 mic.

My first suggestion was that he spend some money at a studio, but he's
not ready for that yet (as a player).

I think he's fighting a learning battle.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

caveplayer wrote:

This whole mic thing is overwhelming. I went to mercenary.com today
just to browse. There's just so many mics out there. They had a few
more brands i never heard of in my price range.

Mercenary is the kind of place where a customer like you needn't really
worry if you haven't heard of any particular line of gear. They don't
mess with what doesn't work, and they find out what works by using the
stuff. This ain't yer GC kinda concept.

It's probably very
similar to buying a classical guitar. Now that's something i know more
about. There's all the crap you see at guitar center and sam ash, and
then there are the real guitars that you have to search for. You
really have to shell out at least $2000 to get a good classical. Is it
the same with mics? And more importantly, with my modest equipment
will i hear the difference between a $2000 Neumann and an $100 mxl?

But a Josephson Series 4 from mercneary and start using it. Down the
line you might want differently, but at least you'll then know something
about using a decent mic. You'll come to understand what's better about
the Josephson than the mics you're now using. Hell, you might decide you
just want another Series 4 for stereo.

--
ha

caveplayer wrote:

This whole mic thing is overwhelming. I went to mercenary.com today
just to browse. There's just so many mics out there. They had a few
more brands i never heard of in my price range.

Mercenary is the kind of place where a customer like you needn't really
worry if you haven't heard of any particular line of gear. They don't
mess with what doesn't work, and they find out what works by using the
stuff. This ain't yer GC kinda concept.

It's probably very
similar to buying a classical guitar. Now that's something i know more
about. There's all the crap you see at guitar center and sam ash, and
then there are the real guitars that you have to search for. You
really have to shell out at least $2000 to get a good classical. Is it
the same with mics? And more importantly, with my modest equipment
will i hear the difference between a $2000 Neumann and an $100 mxl?

But a Josephson Series 4 from mercneary and start using it. Down the
line you might want differently, but at least you'll then know something
about using a decent mic. You'll come to understand what's better about
the Josephson than the mics you're now using. Hell, you might decide you
just want another Series 4 for stereo.

--
ha

If you like the sound of recordings made in churches go visit a few and ask
to try their space.... It has to be better than a stairwell. Look for one
where the air handlers for the heating/cooling system can be turned off and
a location or time with no traffic noise problems.

Rgds:
Eric

If you like the sound of recordings made in churches go visit a few and ask
to try their space.... It has to be better than a stairwell. Look for one
where the air handlers for the heating/cooling system can be turned off and
a location or time with no traffic noise problems.

Rgds:
Eric

"Eric K. Weber" wrote in message ...
If you like the sound of recordings made in churches go visit a few and ask
to try their space.... It has to be better than a stairwell. Look for one
where the air handlers for the heating/cooling system can be turned off and
a location or time with no traffic noise problems.

Rgds:
Eric

Why is everyone so skeptical about the stairwell? You haven't heard it
so how do you know what the sound is like? Not all stairwells are
created equal.

Anyway, this is turning into group therapy session and i am the only
client. So thanks everyone for being patient(although i think someone
was getting close to screaming at me). I'm all for trying out mics. In
fact, i love experimenting. I'm an experimental physicist for God's
sake. Problem is, I'm not sure i can order 10 different mics online
and return them, and there is no studio or good music store near me
that lends mics. So i think I'm back to experimenting more with my own
equipment (Yes Mike, i listened), even thought I've spent nights doing
so. You've also convinced me that the stairwell may sound good to me
but bad to my mics. I'll grant you that, so now I'm thinking of
building a room in my basement, specifically for playing and recording
("Oh noooo, they say, go to a F*%-ing studio"), but alas, I like
pursuing unsurmountable projects. This of course will be the subject
of another thread (how to build a soundproof recording room 101).
But getting back to reality. Question about the famous x-y pair. If i
have my two 603's at roughly 90 degrees, capsules almost touching, and
say, 1-2 ft in front of the 12th fret, neither of them is pointing at
the 12th fret or even close. Is this right?

"Eric K. Weber" wrote in message ...
If you like the sound of recordings made in churches go visit a few and ask
to try their space.... It has to be better than a stairwell. Look for one
where the air handlers for the heating/cooling system can be turned off and
a location or time with no traffic noise problems.

Rgds:
Eric

Why is everyone so skeptical about the stairwell? You haven't heard it
so how do you know what the sound is like? Not all stairwells are
created equal.

Anyway, this is turning into group therapy session and i am the only
client. So thanks everyone for being patient(although i think someone
was getting close to screaming at me). I'm all for trying out mics. In
fact, i love experimenting. I'm an experimental physicist for God's
sake. Problem is, I'm not sure i can order 10 different mics online
and return them, and there is no studio or good music store near me
that lends mics. So i think I'm back to experimenting more with my own
equipment (Yes Mike, i listened), even thought I've spent nights doing
so. You've also convinced me that the stairwell may sound good to me
but bad to my mics. I'll grant you that, so now I'm thinking of
building a room in my basement, specifically for playing and recording
("Oh noooo, they say, go to a F*%-ing studio"), but alas, I like
pursuing unsurmountable projects. This of course will be the subject
of another thread (how to build a soundproof recording room 101).
But getting back to reality. Question about the famous x-y pair. If i
have my two 603's at roughly 90 degrees, capsules almost touching, and
say, 1-2 ft in front of the 12th fret, neither of them is pointing at
the 12th fret or even close. Is this right?

On 17 Nov 2004 19:55:38 -0800, (caveplayer) wrote:

Why is everyone so skeptical about the stairwell? You haven't heard it
so how do you know what the sound is like? Not all stairwells are
created equal.

Newsgroups include six billion people; about half of us know how we
sound to ourselves singing in the shower. The other half are too poor.
But none would recommend recording there.

Anyway, this is turning into group therapy session and i am the only
client. So thanks everyone for being patient(although i think someone
was getting close to screaming at me). I'm all for trying out mics. In
fact, i love experimenting. I'm an experimental physicist for God's
sake.

Reading through this whole thread, I've seen only a plea for
open-mindedness; never any personal attack.

Communication of all kinds is difficult enough in this world. But
don't give up or disparage one of the few remaining workable venues.
The clock's ticking on our world. It takes a freeway, or something.

Chris Hornbeck

On 17 Nov 2004 19:55:38 -0800, (caveplayer) wrote:

Why is everyone so skeptical about the stairwell? You haven't heard it
so how do you know what the sound is like? Not all stairwells are
created equal.

Newsgroups include six billion people; about half of us know how we
sound to ourselves singing in the shower. The other half are too poor.
But none would recommend recording there.

Anyway, this is turning into group therapy session and i am the only
client. So thanks everyone for being patient(although i think someone
was getting close to screaming at me). I'm all for trying out mics. In
fact, i love experimenting. I'm an experimental physicist for God's
sake.

Reading through this whole thread, I've seen only a plea for
open-mindedness; never any personal attack.

Communication of all kinds is difficult enough in this world. But
don't give up or disparage one of the few remaining workable venues.
The clock's ticking on our world. It takes a freeway, or something.

Chris Hornbeck

On 11/17/04 7:55 PM, in article
, "caveplayer"
wrote:

"Eric K. Weber" wrote in message
...
If you like the sound of recordings made in churches go visit a few and ask
to try their space.... It has to be better than a stairwell. Look for one
where the air handlers for the heating/cooling system can be turned off and
a location or time with no traffic noise problems.

Rgds:
Eric

Why is everyone so skeptical about the stairwell? You haven't heard it
so how do you know what the sound is like? Not all stairwells are
created equal.

Anyway, this is turning into group therapy session and i am the only
client. So thanks everyone for being patient(although i think someone
was getting close to screaming at me). I'm all for trying out mics. In
fact, i love experimenting. I'm an experimental physicist for God's
sake. Problem is, I'm not sure i can order 10 different mics online
and return them, and there is no studio or good music store near me
that lends mics. So i think I'm back to experimenting more with my own
equipment (Yes Mike, i listened), even thought I've spent nights doing
so. You've also convinced me that the stairwell may sound good to me
but bad to my mics. I'll grant you that, so now I'm thinking of
building a room in my basement, specifically for playing and recording
("Oh noooo, they say, go to a F*%-ing studio"), but alas, I like
pursuing unsurmountable projects. This of course will be the subject
of another thread (how to build a soundproof recording room 101).
But getting back to reality. Question about the famous x-y pair. If i
have my two 603's at roughly 90 degrees, capsules almost touching, and
say, 1-2 ft in front of the 12th fret, neither of them is pointing at
the 12th fret or even close. Is this right?


The 603s are not the best mics for recording classical or acoustic guitar XY
for two reasons. First, they are a wide card pattern, which works OK in XY,
but not as well a card or hypercard. Second, they're pretty low end mics,
hyped highs with mud to boot.

Building a studio in your basement is a good idea. Recording in a stairwell
is not a good idea.

--
Stephen Boyke

On 11/17/04 7:55 PM, in article
, "caveplayer"
wrote:

"Eric K. Weber" wrote in message
...
If you like the sound of recordings made in churches go visit a few and ask
to try their space.... It has to be better than a stairwell. Look for one
where the air handlers for the heating/cooling system can be turned off and
a location or time with no traffic noise problems.

Rgds:
Eric

Why is everyone so skeptical about the stairwell? You haven't heard it
so how do you know what the sound is like? Not all stairwells are
created equal.

Anyway, this is turning into group therapy session and i am the only
client. So thanks everyone for being patient(although i think someone
was getting close to screaming at me). I'm all for trying out mics. In
fact, i love experimenting. I'm an experimental physicist for God's
sake. Problem is, I'm not sure i can order 10 different mics online
and return them, and there is no studio or good music store near me
that lends mics. So i think I'm back to experimenting more with my own
equipment (Yes Mike, i listened), even thought I've spent nights doing
so. You've also convinced me that the stairwell may sound good to me
but bad to my mics. I'll grant you that, so now I'm thinking of
building a room in my basement, specifically for playing and recording
("Oh noooo, they say, go to a F*%-ing studio"), but alas, I like
pursuing unsurmountable projects. This of course will be the subject
of another thread (how to build a soundproof recording room 101).
But getting back to reality. Question about the famous x-y pair. If i
have my two 603's at roughly 90 degrees, capsules almost touching, and
say, 1-2 ft in front of the 12th fret, neither of them is pointing at
the 12th fret or even close. Is this right?


The 603s are not the best mics for recording classical or acoustic guitar XY
for two reasons. First, they are a wide card pattern, which works OK in XY,
but not as well a card or hypercard. Second, they're pretty low end mics,
hyped highs with mud to boot.

Building a studio in your basement is a good idea. Recording in a stairwell
is not a good idea.

--
Stephen Boyke

"caveplayer" wrote in message
om...
"Eric K. Weber" wrote in message
...
If you like the sound of recordings made in churches go visit a few and
ask
to try their space.... It has to be better than a stairwell. Look for
one
where the air handlers for the heating/cooling system can be turned off
and
a location or time with no traffic noise problems.

Why is everyone so skeptical about the stairwell? You haven't heard it
so how do you know what the sound is like? Not all stairwells are
created equal.

Probabilities. You *may* have a good-sounding stairwell. But the odds are
very much against it.

Anyway, this is turning into group therapy session and i am the only
client. So thanks everyone for being patient(although i think someone
was getting close to screaming at me). I'm all for trying out mics. In
fact, i love experimenting. I'm an experimental physicist for God's
sake. Problem is, I'm not sure i can order 10 different mics online
and return them, and there is no studio or good music store near me
that lends mics. So i think I'm back to experimenting more with my own
equipment (Yes Mike, i listened), even thought I've spent nights doing
so. You've also convinced me that the stairwell may sound good to me
but bad to my mics. I'll grant you that, so now I'm thinking of
building a room in my basement, specifically for playing and recording
("Oh noooo, they say, go to a F*%-ing studio"), but alas, I like
pursuing unsurmountable projects.

If you put some care into it, choose your dimensions and room treatment
carefully, you can get a decent-sounding room. Smaller rooms are more
problematical than bigger ones, which is one reason studios tend to be
bigger, but you can get decent results.

This of course will be the subject
of another thread (how to build a soundproof recording room 101).

Go to the public library and check out one of F. Alton Everest's books on
building a studio. Don't start with the Master Handbook of Acoustics, but
with one of the simplified ones and work your way up. Yes, your background
in physics will help -- a lot -- but it's worth reading Everest's simplified
books because they include some sample designs which are worthy of study.
Then get the Master Handbook -- probably you should buy that one, since
you'll use it a lot.

But getting back to reality. Question about the famous x-y pair. If i
have my two 603's at roughly 90 degrees, capsules almost touching, and
say, 1-2 ft in front of the 12th fret, neither of them is pointing at
the 12th fret or even close. Is this right?

Right; that's why the off-axis response of microphones is so important when
you're doing XY. Oh, and the "almost touching" thing: The best way to do XY,
most of the time, is to place the microphones so that the capsules are
stacked, one above the other. If they're next to each other, but not
touching -- like this (exaggerated): / \ , well, do a gedankenexperiment.
Imagine a sound source to the left of the array. It will be louder in the
left-pointing microphone, because it's on-axis to that one and off-axis to
the other one. Well and good; that's how XY works. But it will arrive at the
right-pointing microphone first, because it's closer to that one. So you get
a loudness cue that the source is on the left (correct) and a time cue that
it's on the right (wrong), and your stereo image gets muddled as a result.
Probably not a huge amount if the mikes are half an inch apart, but I've
seen folks put them 5 inches apart, and the results were pure mush.

Peace,
Paul

"caveplayer" wrote in message
om...
"Eric K. Weber" wrote in message
...
If you like the sound of recordings made in churches go visit a few and
ask
to try their space.... It has to be better than a stairwell. Look for
one
where the air handlers for the heating/cooling system can be turned off
and
a location or time with no traffic noise problems.

Why is everyone so skeptical about the stairwell? You haven't heard it
so how do you know what the sound is like? Not all stairwells are
created equal.

Probabilities. You *may* have a good-sounding stairwell. But the odds are
very much against it.

Anyway, this is turning into group therapy session and i am the only
client. So thanks everyone for being patient(although i think someone
was getting close to screaming at me). I'm all for trying out mics. In
fact, i love experimenting. I'm an experimental physicist for God's
sake. Problem is, I'm not sure i can order 10 different mics online
and return them, and there is no studio or good music store near me
that lends mics. So i think I'm back to experimenting more with my own
equipment (Yes Mike, i listened), even thought I've spent nights doing
so. You've also convinced me that the stairwell may sound good to me
but bad to my mics. I'll grant you that, so now I'm thinking of
building a room in my basement, specifically for playing and recording
("Oh noooo, they say, go to a F*%-ing studio"), but alas, I like
pursuing unsurmountable projects.

If you put some care into it, choose your dimensions and room treatment
carefully, you can get a decent-sounding room. Smaller rooms are more
problematical than bigger ones, which is one reason studios tend to be
bigger, but you can get decent results.

This of course will be the subject
of another thread (how to build a soundproof recording room 101).

Go to the public library and check out one of F. Alton Everest's books on
building a studio. Don't start with the Master Handbook of Acoustics, but
with one of the simplified ones and work your way up. Yes, your background
in physics will help -- a lot -- but it's worth reading Everest's simplified
books because they include some sample designs which are worthy of study.
Then get the Master Handbook -- probably you should buy that one, since
you'll use it a lot.

But getting back to reality. Question about the famous x-y pair. If i
have my two 603's at roughly 90 degrees, capsules almost touching, and
say, 1-2 ft in front of the 12th fret, neither of them is pointing at
the 12th fret or even close. Is this right?

Right; that's why the off-axis response of microphones is so important when
you're doing XY. Oh, and the "almost touching" thing: The best way to do XY,
most of the time, is to place the microphones so that the capsules are
stacked, one above the other. If they're next to each other, but not
touching -- like this (exaggerated): / \ , well, do a gedankenexperiment.
Imagine a sound source to the left of the array. It will be louder in the
left-pointing microphone, because it's on-axis to that one and off-axis to
the other one. Well and good; that's how XY works. But it will arrive at the
right-pointing microphone first, because it's closer to that one. So you get
a loudness cue that the source is on the left (correct) and a time cue that
it's on the right (wrong), and your stereo image gets muddled as a result.
Probably not a huge amount if the mikes are half an inch apart, but I've
seen folks put them 5 inches apart, and the results were pure mush.

Peace,
Paul

In article writes:

Why is everyone so skeptical about the stairwell?

Because your description of what you don't like about your recording,
sketchy as it is, points to a recording of a bad room rather than a
bad recording of a guitar.

You haven't heard it
so how do you know what the sound is like? Not all stairwells are
created equal.

So why not make a sample of your recording available to those who are
willing to take the time to listen to it. Do you mail out CDs? AND
DON'T POST A FILE IN THIS NEWSGROUP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

there is no studio or good music store near me
that lends mics.

You aren't trying hard enough.

now I'm thinking of
building a room in my basement, specifically for playing and recording
("Oh noooo, they say, go to a F*%-ing studio"), but alas, I like
pursuing unsurmountable projects. This of course will be the subject
of another thread (how to build a soundproof recording room 101).

That's one that's been covered time and again. There are at least some
principles that you can adhere to and some proven construction
materials and methods that will give you a good basis for reliable
experimentation. But I find it incredible that you're so confounded by
lack of availability of a studio or a mic rental place that you'd
start building a studio instead. How far "north of Boston" do you
live? 1500 miles?

But getting back to reality. Question about the famous x-y pair. If i
have my two 603's at roughly 90 degrees, capsules almost touching, and
say, 1-2 ft in front of the 12th fret, neither of them is pointing at
the 12th fret or even close. Is this right?

That's a good place to start. But in addition to listening to both
mics in stereo, listen to each mic individually and maybe you'll hear
differences in reflected sound that's making the stereo recording
sound worse than a mono recording.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

Why is everyone so skeptical about the stairwell?

Because your description of what you don't like about your recording,
sketchy as it is, points to a recording of a bad room rather than a
bad recording of a guitar.

You haven't heard it
so how do you know what the sound is like? Not all stairwells are
created equal.

So why not make a sample of your recording available to those who are
willing to take the time to listen to it. Do you mail out CDs? AND
DON'T POST A FILE IN THIS NEWSGROUP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

there is no studio or good music store near me
that lends mics.

You aren't trying hard enough.

now I'm thinking of
building a room in my basement, specifically for playing and recording
("Oh noooo, they say, go to a F*%-ing studio"), but alas, I like
pursuing unsurmountable projects. This of course will be the subject
of another thread (how to build a soundproof recording room 101).

That's one that's been covered time and again. There are at least some
principles that you can adhere to and some proven construction
materials and methods that will give you a good basis for reliable
experimentation. But I find it incredible that you're so confounded by
lack of availability of a studio or a mic rental place that you'd
start building a studio instead. How far "north of Boston" do you
live? 1500 miles?

But getting back to reality. Question about the famous x-y pair. If i
have my two 603's at roughly 90 degrees, capsules almost touching, and
say, 1-2 ft in front of the 12th fret, neither of them is pointing at
the 12th fret or even close. Is this right?

That's a good place to start. But in addition to listening to both
mics in stereo, listen to each mic individually and maybe you'll hear
differences in reflected sound that's making the stereo recording
sound worse than a mono recording.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:55:38 -0500, caveplayer wrote
(in article ) :

"Eric K. Weber" wrote in message
...
If you like the sound of recordings made in churches go visit a few and ask
to try their space.... It has to be better than a stairwell. Look for one
where the air handlers for the heating/cooling system can be turned off and
a location or time with no traffic noise problems.

Rgds:
Eric

Why is everyone so skeptical about the stairwell? You haven't heard it
so how do you know what the sound is like? Not all stairwells are
created equal.

Anyway, this is turning into group therapy session and i am the only
client. So thanks everyone for being patient(although i think someone
was getting close to screaming at me). I'm all for trying out mics. In
fact, i love experimenting. I'm an experimental physicist for God's
sake. Problem is, I'm not sure i can order 10 different mics online
and return them, and there is no studio or good music store near me
that lends mics. So i think I'm back to experimenting more with my own
equipment (Yes Mike, i listened), even thought I've spent nights doing
so. You've also convinced me that the stairwell may sound good to me
but bad to my mics. I'll grant you that, so now I'm thinking of
building a room in my basement, specifically for playing and recording
("Oh noooo, they say, go to a F*%-ing studio"), but alas, I like
pursuing unsurmountable projects. This of course will be the subject
of another thread (how to build a soundproof recording room 101).
But getting back to reality. Question about the famous x-y pair. If i
have my two 603's at roughly 90 degrees, capsules almost touching, and
say, 1-2 ft in front of the 12th fret, neither of them is pointing at
the 12th fret or even close. Is this right?

I personally think you're dealing pretty well with all of the input, even
though you still might have a bit of denial about the staircase thing..

So it's the process for you (as it is for most of us) as well as the product.
If you want a world class classical guitar sound, that's one thing. If you
like experimenting with recording and acoustics, that's something else. Keep
the place where those two pursuits overlap fluid. Don't get too wed to any
concepts. Get a good foundation in recording practices. Learn the rules, then
learn to break them.

The fact that you're not happy with your technical efforts so far supports
the thought that the staircase may not be helping you. The 603's are NOT the
be all and end all of small diaphragm mics. The best placement in the
universe can not overcome that.

Meanwhile......

A lot of folks get sort of "digital" or bipolar.."Well if not THIS, then I'll
do THAT!" The best solutions are often in the middle.

Most of the folks who are trying to disabuse you of the staircase idea have a
lot of experience. Most of them (myself included) would probably abandon the
idea of trying to make a good acoustic environment in your situation and make
one with a really good reverb...or two.

You have an aversion to going to a studio. Get over it. And I'm not talking
about a typical basement studio. I'm talking about a really good studio with
the right gear, the right space and the people who know how to make the best
out of them. Where are you (geographically)?

You don't have to spend hours there. Do one piece and hope to be able to have
reached a point where you can actually understand the difference in what you
get there and what you get at home.

Don't worry about possibly feeling bad about your recording effort when you
hear the difference. You're there to put your dick in your back pocket and
learn.

As per your thoughts on XY recording, 90 degrees usually works. Almost
touching is not the exact thing to consider.

Try getting the diaphragms to occupy the same vertical axis so the sound from
the guitar arrives at both capsules at the same time. The less you pay
attention to that simple rule of physics, the more cancellation due to phase
(time) differences will occur.

Some prefer a left/right (horizontal) positioning. As I said before, keep it
fluid. Try up/down (vertical) positioning. That way the stereo spread goes
from treble to bass.

Mic placement in terms of how far away and where on the neck or body can not
be answered here, but a good starting position isusually near where the neck
meets the body. The farther away from the guitar, the more room you hear.

There is no right. There are many rights....and at least as many wrongs.

Regards,

Ty Ford





-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:55:38 -0500, caveplayer wrote
(in article ) :

"Eric K. Weber" wrote in message
...
If you like the sound of recordings made in churches go visit a few and ask
to try their space.... It has to be better than a stairwell. Look for one
where the air handlers for the heating/cooling system can be turned off and
a location or time with no traffic noise problems.

Rgds:
Eric

Why is everyone so skeptical about the stairwell? You haven't heard it
so how do you know what the sound is like? Not all stairwells are
created equal.

Anyway, this is turning into group therapy session and i am the only
client. So thanks everyone for being patient(although i think someone
was getting close to screaming at me). I'm all for trying out mics. In
fact, i love experimenting. I'm an experimental physicist for God's
sake. Problem is, I'm not sure i can order 10 different mics online
and return them, and there is no studio or good music store near me
that lends mics. So i think I'm back to experimenting more with my own
equipment (Yes Mike, i listened), even thought I've spent nights doing
so. You've also convinced me that the stairwell may sound good to me
but bad to my mics. I'll grant you that, so now I'm thinking of
building a room in my basement, specifically for playing and recording
("Oh noooo, they say, go to a F*%-ing studio"), but alas, I like
pursuing unsurmountable projects. This of course will be the subject
of another thread (how to build a soundproof recording room 101).
But getting back to reality. Question about the famous x-y pair. If i
have my two 603's at roughly 90 degrees, capsules almost touching, and
say, 1-2 ft in front of the 12th fret, neither of them is pointing at
the 12th fret or even close. Is this right?

I personally think you're dealing pretty well with all of the input, even
though you still might have a bit of denial about the staircase thing..

So it's the process for you (as it is for most of us) as well as the product.
If you want a world class classical guitar sound, that's one thing. If you
like experimenting with recording and acoustics, that's something else. Keep
the place where those two pursuits overlap fluid. Don't get too wed to any
concepts. Get a good foundation in recording practices. Learn the rules, then
learn to break them.

The fact that you're not happy with your technical efforts so far supports
the thought that the staircase may not be helping you. The 603's are NOT the
be all and end all of small diaphragm mics. The best placement in the
universe can not overcome that.

Meanwhile......

A lot of folks get sort of "digital" or bipolar.."Well if not THIS, then I'll
do THAT!" The best solutions are often in the middle.

Most of the folks who are trying to disabuse you of the staircase idea have a
lot of experience. Most of them (myself included) would probably abandon the
idea of trying to make a good acoustic environment in your situation and make
one with a really good reverb...or two.

You have an aversion to going to a studio. Get over it. And I'm not talking
about a typical basement studio. I'm talking about a really good studio with
the right gear, the right space and the people who know how to make the best
out of them. Where are you (geographically)?

You don't have to spend hours there. Do one piece and hope to be able to have
reached a point where you can actually understand the difference in what you
get there and what you get at home.

Don't worry about possibly feeling bad about your recording effort when you
hear the difference. You're there to put your dick in your back pocket and
learn.

As per your thoughts on XY recording, 90 degrees usually works. Almost
touching is not the exact thing to consider.

Try getting the diaphragms to occupy the same vertical axis so the sound from
the guitar arrives at both capsules at the same time. The less you pay
attention to that simple rule of physics, the more cancellation due to phase
(time) differences will occur.

Some prefer a left/right (horizontal) positioning. As I said before, keep it
fluid. Try up/down (vertical) positioning. That way the stereo spread goes
from treble to bass.

Mic placement in terms of how far away and where on the neck or body can not
be answered here, but a good starting position isusually near where the neck
meets the body. The farther away from the guitar, the more room you hear.

There is no right. There are many rights....and at least as many wrongs.

Regards,

Ty Ford





-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

caveplayer wrote:

Why is everyone so skeptical about the stairwell? You haven't heard it
so how do you know what the sound is like? Not all stairwells are
created equal.

Because we've heard too many overly reverberant spaces before. Yours might
be an exception, but the chances are fairly slim. Try a deader room.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

caveplayer wrote:

Why is everyone so skeptical about the stairwell? You haven't heard it
so how do you know what the sound is like? Not all stairwells are
created equal.

Because we've heard too many overly reverberant spaces before. Yours might
be an exception, but the chances are fairly slim. Try a deader room.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."